Water changes

[ladyoutlaw50]

Hi
I am wondering how often water changes should be done -- I have a 29gallon(2 venutus and 1 livingstonii), 20 gallon(2 johannis and 3 yellow labs, 1 kenyi) and 55 gallon(2 ice blue zebra, 3 cubwe, 3 lombardoi)-- each week I do about 15-25% water change and then about once every month to month and 1/2 I do a big water change -- about 65 -75% -- every body seems to be doing very well -- water appears to stay clear -- I do rinse my filter media every week as well.
I just wonder if I should do it less often. I use the python system that hooks right up to the tap -- you can clean and fill -- it is so much easier!!
thanks again for any comments, suggestions or just ideas
:c12:

[doug z]

Welcome to the forum!

A good rule of thumb is 30% a week..

But it all depends on your water parameters (nitrates, 02 content, pH) how well planted your tanks are, how heavily stocked with fish, etc..

Some people with VERY well planted tanks can get away with bi-weekly or even monthly water changes, as the plants are doing alot of what water changes do for you (get rid of nitrates, oxygenate the water, etc).

Do you have any live plants in your tanks? What kind of filters do you have?

The media you can rinse (gently, and in tank water) weekly or biweekly.. The sponge you just have to give it a squeeze, and that should be good.. The mechanical media just a gentle rinse should be fine..

Don't get TOO carried away, as if you remove too much bacteria you will get an ammonia spike as your tank goes through a mini cycle..

One thing alot of people don't consider is that when water evaporates, the minerals that were in the tap water stay in the tank.. They don't evaporate out of the tank.. So with time the water gets harder, and harder..

Just FYI..

You may want to use gallon jugs of RO water from the supermarket to use for top-offs..

[ladyoutlaw50]

Thanks -- I hadn't thought of the water jugs -- I have been very lucky my ph and such do not fluctuate much. I don't have live plants -- figure i have good luck with my fish - don't want to rock the boat yet with live plants!!
So maybe I should just do 25 -30% each week and leave it at that??

[doug z]

Yup, that's what I would do..

And if you notice that your nitrates are pretty up there (40ppm+), you can up the percentage changed a week.

And if your nitrates are really low (anything below 10, which they probably won't be, with no live plants to supplement your filter) you might be able to go TWO weeks without a water change..

You should test your tank's pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels about once a week, and keep a record. That way you stay ahead of any negative trends..

What are your parameters so far?

Again, make sure you are very gentle when using the python that you don't disturb the surface of the gravel. You should keep the vacuum nozzle at least half an inch from the surface, and move it side to side slowly.. Like I say, if you are too vigourous, you will disturb the bacteria that is keeping your ammonia and nitrite levels in check..

Same with rinsing your filter sponge and mechanical filtration media.. Be gentle.. Do it more often and clean it gently, rather doing it less often and cleaning it more thoroughly..

[ladyoutlaw50]

I do test my PH weekly and the others I test about once a month --unless I notice changes with the fish or water colors. My ph in the tanks range about 7.8 - 8.0 -- I am wondering tho if that should be raised a bit higher.
Amonia and nitrite were 0 the last time I tested and the nitrate was about 30ppm -- i thought that was ok -- isn't it?
should i be testing the rest each week like I do the ph?
I have been doing the cichlids for quite some time and everyone tells me don't fix what isn't broken -- I have had great luck -- but would like to see some little ones coming into the world!!
thanks for all your advice -- I greatly appreciate it

[doug z]

You should step up the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate tests to once a week, after you've done a water change or filter cleaning..

That will give you more of a chance to correct any negative trends..

What kind of cichlids do you have in your tanks, again?

Make sure that 7.8 to 8.0 is what they like.. Not ALL cichlids like the same pH.

30 for your nitrates is ok. But see what happens once you start doing weekly changes of only 25-30% with no BIG water changes a month..

If it trends up to 40 consider doing bigger weekly changes.

But for sure look up the breeding info on the cichlids you have..

Could very well be that they LIKE big water changes.. For quite a few fish (corys, etc) that is a stimulus to breed..

[ladyoutlaw50]

I have the following:
I have a 29gallon(2 venutus and 1 livingstonii), 20 gallon(2 johannis and 3 yellow labs, 1 kenyi) and 55 gallon(2 ice blue zebra, 3 cubwe, 3 lombardoi)--

the end of the summer I am looking to buy a 125 gallon tank and move the bigger guys over to that one and go from there -- right now the "gang" seems to be happy and doing well --- I have no major aggression going on --

[doug z]

Did you mean venutus cichlids?

According to this they absolutely need a bigger tank, so good you are on that.. Might want to even step up the time table!

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Looks like your water pH is just fine like it is..


Nimbochromis livingstonii

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

You get the idea..

Lots of sites have profiles on the fish you have that you can look at, including this forum..

What are you using for filters?

[MandyL]

I believe all those cichlids are African, so your pH is good. No need to raise it for them.

I agree with doing slightly larger wate changes each week, and hopefully eliminate the one large one. I really don't think there's any need to be rinsing your filter media as often as you are. Once a month would probably be better (and like Doug said, gently in tank water).

Personally I do only 10% once a week, but I'm heavilly planted. It's been set up for a couple months now and I haven't touched the filter media.

[SW Addict]

Doug, she's keeping Malawi Cichlids, the plants are a definite no and the harder water is not a problem at all, they'll love it, RO is completely unnecessary.

You don't need to increase the testing either. I don't remember the last time I pulled out an ammonia or nitrite test kit. It was probably back in November when I was cycling my Reef tank. Test kits are good whenyou are cycling or when you see something wrong. Other then that you don't really need to test all that often. When you see something wrong then pull out the test kit and test.

That 125 is a great idea, just be sure to be careful when bringing all those fish together, you are dealing with eight different species there and you could have a good bit of aggression problems. Personally I wouldn't keep more then 3 species in a tank and bulk those out. That said, what you are proposing is completely possible and at this point is the best option for the fish you have.

[ladyoutlaw50]

You guys are great -- I really appreciate all the help!!! right now my venutus and livinstoni are small and seem to be ok -- I will keep an eye on things -- wanted to make sure I had the money to get ALL I needed to set up the big tank and get it rolling!!
I have been using whisper power filters -- I have the next larger size then what is recommened for the size tank I have!! They seem to be maintaining very well -- when I do rinse them they really aren't that bad!! I guess I am panicking a bit about keeping the tanks clear!! Now that I have read what you all say -- I will slow down a bit!! <blush>
thanks again

[doug z]

Yeah, I don't know anything about cichlids, besides what I quickly look up on them (plants are a no, wtaer pH harder the better)..

The RO suggestion was before I found out we were talking about cichlids..

When you see something wrong then pull out the test kit and test.

Personally I'd rather waste time and testing solution and maybe catch something before it becomes a problem and it's maybe too late (like if I can actually SEE something wrong)..

But that's me.. :)

I don't know what your budget is, outlaw, but consider getting a good cannister filter..

They are a WAY better filtration option, especially with messy cichlids..

[ladyoutlaw50]

Hi
Maybe you can help me ID this cichlid -- I rescued him/her but can't seem to find out what he/she is. He/she rules the tank tho!! LOL:11:

[ladyoutlaw50]

Thanks - at this point my plan was to put the Venutus and the Livinstonii together in the 125 and then see what I have and what would be a good fit. I won't be adding any more fish at this point and will wait till after the 125 is set up and good to go!!
I just love this hobby!! on the nights I have trouble sleeping I come out to the living room and can see them swim in the dark and it is enough to help me drift off!!
what times would you recommend that I keep the lights on -- I am normally at work during the day and don't turn them on till I get home and then have them on a timer to go off no later then 11pm.

[doug z]

Fish like to sleep, too, so I would just have the lights on a timer so they get 10-12 hours of light, no more..

If there's natural light from windows you could adjust the on/off times according to the sunrise/sunset patterns of the season..

[SW Addict]

Personally I'd rather waste time and testing solution and maybe catch something before it becomes a problem and it's maybe too late (like if I can actually SEE something wrong)..
You obviously haven't had a tank yet. LOL If you think testing once a week is going to prevent problems then guess again. The more you watch your tank the more in tune you become with what is going on in there. It won't take long to learn your fish and their environment, and it will only take a very minor thing to know that something isn't right. If you notice those changes then you can stop them. If you have a properly cycled tank and you haven't done anything to it but normal water changes the testing your water for nitrite and ammonia is completely pointless unless you suspect something is wrong. Any problems associated with nitrite or ammonia will not be fast acting problems and you have plenty of time to deal with them. Believe me, constant testing doesn't prevent those things. Besides, the problems associated with those 2 elements are very limited.

As for the lights, since there are no live plants in there then leaving the lights on isn't really necessary so what you are doing is fine.

[ladyoutlaw50]

Several years ago I had 2 tanks a 55 and a 45 -- but didn't have cichlids -- just mollies and neons and things like that. The cichlids are a new project for me

[Fishguy2727]

If someone wants to test more often it is fine. You shouldn't ever have any detectable ammonia or nitrite once cycled, but with such tough fish like African cichlids when things are visible in the fish (and that takes a decent amount of experience to catch things like that) the problem is very bad. They hide problems very well. Prevention is the best tool and testing as well as observing the fish are both ways of achieving this. Testing can catch problems before they are so bad that they are observable in the fish and allow you to fix it before it does affect the fish that badly. One warning though, many people who test a lot want to fix every little abnormality and can frequently try to change things too much. This can cause roller coaster pH swings and other problems.

Testing nitrate on a normal basis is a very good idea to ensure you are doing enough water changes. This is covered in my blog, which includes an article on mbunas.

[SW Addict]

Sorry, ladyoutlaw, I wasn't referring to you. I was talking to doug. LOL

[ladyoutlaw50]

please don't be sorry -- i am sorry!! I am going in today to have a tooth pulled and I am a nervous wreck so tend to jump quick!!! Sorry -- You all have been wonderful here and I appreciate all comments, opinions and advice!! I love my cichlids and really enjoy them!! So please keep sending them as I read them and make notes!!
Again Thanks to all

[SW Addict]

As I'm sure you realize, you are dealing with a higher waste producing fish with cichlids, so as a good practice, water changes should be more frequent and larger then with a normal tank.

[sailor]

I agree with ILMGB with the larger water changes for the african cichlids. I do 50% weekly water changes on all my african cichlid tanks (5 total) and my tanks are very healthy and happy. I find with the cichlids they tend to grow faster with a good water change regime. It also stretches out the filter maintanance as well. With my 120 gal tropheus tank and 90 gal malawi tank I have found a big slightly cooler water change brings on a breeding frenzy. With a NLS diet and a strict water change schedule, I have more fry than I know what to do with sometimes lol. I as well use a python for all my water changes on 10 total tanks and wouldn't know where to start with out it.

[ladyoutlaw50]

I love my python systerm and couldn't imagine doing my water changes and such without it!! It cuts time and mess drastically!!! works great with my faucet as well --- kudos to the inventor of that piece of equipment!!!

[doug z]

The only thing I hate is the plastic components! LOL

Wish they were all metal.. The threads especially I worry about stripping..

[ladyoutlaw50]

i have had pretty good luck with mine -- I do keep a spare set of stuff just in case -- but so far so good!!!

[doug z]

I do keep a spare set of stuff just in case

Good idea..

I suppose if it was all metal you'd have to worry about it affecting the water?

Unless it was all stainless steel, or something..

[Dixie]

To give you idea about nitrates... Under 20 ppm is recommended but up to 40ppm doesn't seem to bother cichlids. I was doing 50% changes weekly because it was getting to 40ppm in a weeks time. I'm so overstocked that eventually it got to be 40ppm right after the weekly 50% change so I started doing another 50% change midweek which brought it down to 20ppm.

I've been really busy lately and missing the midweek changes but doing a little larger than 50% changes. Haven't been testing either but they seem fine.

[bandittcj]

First off I always over filter my chiclid tank, well, every tank. I use filters that turn the water over at least 10 times an hour. Weekly 15-20% water changes and vacuum the gravel. Larger water change if I feel it's needed. Rinsing your filter media weekly is no problem. The bacteria adheres to your media. I also have pre-filters on all my filter inlets. I do rinse the prefilters weekly and sponge inside filter maybe every other week. As for testing, I haven't owned a test kit for many years. If you keep your tank stable and healthy, observe your fish closely, you really shouldn't have any problems. Most problems happen from something brought in from the outside, especially from you LFS.