Ok, WTF?

[Ivana]

This is really starting to get on my nerves.
My fish are acting insane. Here's a list of the problems that i've had since setting this tank up.


Flying Foxes aren't active.


Thin leafed plants are slowly disappearing.


One dead danio.


Rosy barb male has suddenly started spazzing out- won't come out from underneath the breeding net, and when he does he acts hyperactive.


Tiger barb has been hanging around in one spot, either hovering or standing on it's head.


I can NOT balance the water out. Can't do it. I've done twice weekly partials (10-20%) since the cycle ended, but it's still not working. I have all live plants, so that should be helping out quite a bit. I've never had any problems getting water quality straight, but this tank refuses to cooperate.


Now, the same tiger barb looks like it may be coming down with Ich. I saw some spots earlier, but it's not terribly obvious yet.


The pH has been high from the beginning, due to ignorance on my part, and the LFS guy giving me the wrong substrate. (Aragonite.) I'm leaving it alone instead of trying to lower it, since it was going up and down like a yoyo. It's less stressful to just let them adjust.


The corys are just not happy. They're sitting. They used to be all over the place.
Algae. I've never had it before. It's this dark green to brown thin layer growing on all the organic material. The tank isn't near a window, and i've not been leaving the light on all night.


Current water parameters:

Am: 1.0
Nitrates: 20
Nitrites: 0
pH: 7.8

What's happening here? Where is the breakdown happening? The ammonia is high, but I only feed once a day, and it's a light feeding. I have to be careful what I add to the tank because of the khulis. They're the most sensitive, and ironically, the happiest right now.

[Cichlid_Man]

Hi,
I am not an expert but, any ammonia in the tank at any level can cause fish to act "nutty". It burns their gills. My guess is the tank was not fully cycled, or possibly you added too many fish at one time and it couldn't handle the load so the cycle crashed??
I don't know.
The Aragonite is not helping either.
Not only can that boost your PH to 8.2, but it is a known irritant to tropical fish.
It is for marine aquariums mostly unless you have cichlids or brackish fish.

How big is the tank?
How many fish?
How many fish were added at one time after the cycle was complete.
Others will be along to help, but that's my 2 cents.
I would do more water changes, and if you can get your hands on bio spira it will fully cycle your tank in a day.
You can also add aquarium salt at the rate of one tablespoon per 5 gallons of water(pre-dissolved) and raise the temp to 82 in case there is ich.
Salt is a good tonic any way, unless you have scaleless fish which cannot tolerate salt.
Good luck!

[Abbeys_Mom]

Do you have another tank you could put your fish in? I would say you problem is probably your gravel, it's messing up your water parameters. I would toss it and get basic substrate. You won't be able to fix it if the Aragonite is still in there.

[Lady Hobbs]

After a tank cycles, you should only add a few fish at once so the bio -load doesn't get messed up. You added too many apparently causing another ammonia spike. 1.0 is not terrible high for ammonia but even small amounts are too much for many fish. I would continue changing 25% of the water daily until the ammonia goes down to save the fish. It will make for a longer cycle but necessary to save these guys. Cut back on the feeding as well and like cichlidman suggested, use aquarium salt. The ammonia will once again turn to nitrites and then nitrates but right now your bio-load can not catch up. I would also add some Stress Zyme for added bacteria.

[turbomkt]

If you're not comfortable with chemical levels, feel free to do 50% water changes. Do two in a row and you've changed out 75% of your water so your ammonia would be at .25.

Also...are your tests good? What's coming out of the tap?

[kimmers318]

All advice you have received so far is great.....I would definitely work at getting that argonite out of there. You can put it into a mesh bag of some sort to hang it in the tank to help keep the good bacteria that is on it in the tank for a few days until it has cultured into the new substrate.
Be cautious about using salt with your cories and kuhlis....doubt they would like it. If you suspect ICK, you are catching it at the early stages and the increased temp, water changes and some stresscoat should do the trick for you. The stresscoat IME will also help the fish feel better and increase their ability to fight off further infection. I would hesitate to use any meds right now because you need to concentrate on getting the cycling done. Some meds can kill off your biological bacteria. If you are reading ammonia, you are not cycled, you did something to hurt the bacteria, or you added fish in too large of groups too fast. Since you said you haven't been able to balance this tank "since the cycle ended" you could also be overstocked for either the tank or the filter can't keep up. The ammonia levels most likely are the cause of the strange behavior you are seeing and do as many water changes as are necessary to bring it down. Yes, it will take longer to balance out, but the fish are obviously uncomfortable with the ammonia levels. Don't concern yourself with the algae at this point...it is not uncommon IME to have algae blooms with new tanks or tanks that are having issues. Just keep cleaning up what you can and hopefully that will all balance out once the tank balances out and will slowly disappear for you.
Let us know how things work out.

[Ivana]

I'm so ashamed.
I don't think I waited long enough on the cycling. I can admit that to myself. I'm a bad fishwife.
I'm going out today, and i'll try to scare up some bio spira.
I checked the tap water, and it's reading 7.6. I don't think i'm going to have much luck with the pH. Most of the fish were in the old tank, and I never buffered the water in that one. I'm thinking the pH isn't going to be that big of a deal. The aragonite doesn't seem to be raising it that much, looking back on the tests that i've been doing. (I've been doing weeklies since I set up.) It's fluctuated, but never higher than 8. That's when I buffered, and it didn't get below 7.0. I'm going to try to take it out a little at a time, and get it out with the vac during water changes maybe? I've got to plan that one out.
I'm also going to get another filter today, to run alongside the one i've got for a couple of weeks. I want my canister filter back. I'll pick up an ammonia pack for the filter while i'm at it. That should help out with the levels.
So today, water change, filter, and keep fingers crossed. Maybe give the fish some brine shrimp as an apology.

[Cichlid_Man]

Ivana,
I think you are on the right track.
Water changes, get the substrate out a little at a time, and if you can, get the bio spira. If not, you can use stress zyme or cycle. They are not as good as bio spira, but they help keep the ammonia and nitrite less toxic to fish.

I know I have been guilty of adding fish a bit too quick, then I went into panic mode when I saw ammonia and nitrites and everything else rise up.
PH isn't too big a deal as long as you can stabilize it somehow.

I remember I thought I HAD to have 8.2 PH for my cihclids, but after talking to some experts, it is more the stability than the actual numbers that count.
My cichlids are perfectly happy with 7.6, and breeding too!

Please keep us posted. Your fish will be fine if you keep the water changes up.

[Ivana]

New filter is in place, with ammonia absorbing pouchy thing.
The fish are mad, because there's so much crap in their tank.
I'll check later and see how we're doing.

[kimmers318]

Take heart...mistakes are never as bad as they seem as long as we learn something from them. Sounds like you are heading towards making all of this work and I hope to here that all fish made it once things settle down. :)

[Ivana]

The fish are happier now that the ammonia is going down. I'm going on a quest tomorrow for another tank. I'm going to move all these to yet another tank (FULLY CYCLED for at least a month dam*it), and turn this one into a cichlid tank. I am, however, in no hurry to embark on this adventure again.

[Ivana]

Oh, and it's going to be a cichlid tank, because the stupid substrate is already there. :P

[Cichlid_Man]

Oh, and it's going to be a cichlid tank, because the stupid substrate is already there. :P

I was actually going to suggest a cichlid tank because of the substrate you have because I know it is a big pain to remove all that, plus a waste of money to throw it out.

If you need to know anything about cichlid set ups just ask, although you probably already know.

Try and get 1 male to 3 females and get them all from the same lake.
Mine are from Lake Malawi. Malawi has the easiest water to replicate plus the fish are pretty.
They need salt, and the best salt to use is a product called Cichlid lake salt.
Temperature about 82, lots of caves and hiding spaces.
Oh well, I went and stuck my nose in any way.
Ask if you have any cichlid questions.

[Ivana]

Nononono, that's FINE! I haven't done a cichlid tank before :)
Wanna hear something terrible?
I only want really bright coloured cichlids. I'm a sucker for pretty fish.

[Abbeys_Mom]

There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone wants something different from their tanks. I personally like a little action. I have never been a fan of the peaceful tank of tetras.

[Cichlid_Man]

Nononono, that's FINE! I haven't done a cichlid tank before :)
Wanna hear something terrible?
I only want really bright coloured cichlids. I'm a sucker for pretty fish.

Unless you intend to breed them, I would try to get all males then.
Some of the more colorful African Cichlids I have in my tank are electric yellow labs and a cichlid called Auratus.
The Auratus are gold with long black stripes that run from head to fin like a striped bass.
Other colorful cichlids are a P Kennyi. and the Electric Blue Ahli.
Depending on the size of your tank you get get 4 of each of those.

[Ivana]

I'd love to breed them. I love looking at cichlids, i've just never gotten to get any. Are they particularly messy? I already know i'll need plastic plants, but are they heavy poopers? :)

[Cichlid_Man]

They are like any other fish as far as I am concerned when it comes to "being messy".
Heck, I had an Oscar. They grow much larger than a Cichlid and they didn't mess the tank. Platic plants are prettier and you also get to add awesome looking caves. LOTS of caves!

To me Cichlids are beautiful fish. You just have to remember that when you do water changes, you have to replace whatever salt you take out.

If you use Cichlid lake salt, there is a measurement on the label of how much salt to use per ten gallons of water.
For Lake Malawi Cichlids, you use 3/4 tsp per ten gallons of water.
So, if you do a 20 gallon water change, you add back (3/4 X 2) which is 1 1/2teaspoons of pre-dissolved salt. It really is worth the effort.
Some people just use aquarium salt and that goes in at the rate of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water, so a 20 gallon water change would take back 4 tablespoons of pre-dissolved salt.
Keep us posted