back and starting over again!!

[gRuNg3b0y]

Hi all; I posted a thread here asking about cycling (Christmas 07) and have to start all over again I mean all over!! because during a Christmas party at my place my drunk idiot friend poured an entire bottle of Jack Daniels into my aquarium (there's no fish in the tank yet at that time) so after a very long cleaning of all the decor, filter and aquarium. I am now starting to cycle my 10g tank. I started adding janitorial strength ammonia 3 days ago (5/13) and here's my reading for the past couple of days:

5/13
Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0

5/14
Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 0

5/15
Ammonia - 4.0 (went up because I accidentally added too much ammonia)
Nitrite - 0

5/16
Ammonia - 5.0
Nitrite - 0

As you can see there's no bacteria settling in what so ever. My question is should I wait longer to see what happen?? I don't really want to put any bacteria booster because none so far worked for me I tried Cycle, Bacteria Supplement by Top Fin and Seachem's stability and neither were successful. I thought about seeding it with a matured tank in my LFS is that gonna do anything since that my ammonia is already 5.0??

Thanks

[MDMAN]

Seeding the tank with substrate or a decoration from the lfs will speed up the process, but in my experience it takes more than three days to establish the ammonia eating bacteria. Just keep it at 5ppm ammonia and you should see nitrites soon!

[Lady Hobbs]

I wouldn't use seeded gravel from your LFS unless you were using the ammonia method, tho. It may contain ICK but ammonia will kill it if it does have it.

Three days is far too soon to see nitrites yet as stated by MDMAN. You need to add enough ammonia daily to bring it to 4-5 and then when you start to see nitrites, lower the ammonia to around 2 and you'll be fine. Give it about a week, tho, to start seeing the ammonia.

Good choice to fishless cycle, too.

Do no cleaning at all now or you will kill the bacteria that has started to grow.

[gRuNg3b0y]

I indeed thought about what could my LFS has in their tanks like ick I just wanted to make sure so I took the liberty to ask. My Ammonia is still 5.0 so I skipped adding more ammonia. I read that it only slows down the cycle if Ammonia is too high. I'll give it a week and will post the progress And also I used stresscoat+ as my water conditioner. Thats enough to remove chlorine and chloramines right??

Thanks

[NickFish]

I agree with Hobbs, that isn't long enough for anything to happen. Keep it up and you should see some nitrites.

I like Seachem's Prime better. Stress coat plus doesn't detoxify as much as Prime does. Stress coat is more of a pond thing, I don't think it is quite up to the aquarium grade, doesn't mean you couldn't use it just that there are better things.

[gRuNg3b0y]

hmm I'll stick to stresscoat+ for now since I already bought it and don't want to waste money. I'll post some more updates on monday

Thanks

[LosC]

You can speed up your cycle with a cycle boosting product.

[gRuNg3b0y]

I tried couple of them like, Cycle, Bacteria supplement by top fin, and seachem stability and read that seachem works the best but unfortunately it didn't for me. I haven't tried Bio Spira and I don't think my LFS sells it.

Thanks

[Taurus]

If Prime is available to you, I would use it. It's worth very dollar as a new tank water treatment.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Seachem Prime right?? Yes they are available. hmm is it good to mix it with my stresscoat+ since that's what I'm using right now.

Thanks

[Taurus]

Yes, Seachem Prime. I would stop using Stress Coat and start using Prime. IMHO Prime does a better job of detoxing ammonia (NH3) by turning it into ammonium (NH4) which is less toxic to the fish. Your biofilter will still feed and grow on the ammonium. You still use the Stress Coat after your biofilter is established and your tank starts to stabilize.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Alright I'll get a prime and start from there

thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

Alright I bought the Seachem Prime yesterday and added 20 drops (2 drops per 4 Liters) and tested it today when I get home from work.

Here's the result:

5/17 (without prime)
Ammonia - 5.0
Nitrite - 0

Skipped water test on 5/18

5/19
Ammonia - 5.0
Nitrite - 0

Skipped water test on 5/20

5/21 (added 20 drops of Prime at 12:00pm tested the water at 4:26am)
Ammonia - 5.0
Nitrite - 0

After I tested the water I added 4 Liters of tap water with 4 drops of prime.
Still no results *sigh

Will post update soon

Thanks

[kaoticice]

Hmm there's a possibility that other cases can be a factor.

A few question i want to clear up.
Do u condition your water before adding into the tank? Try and leave the water settle for at least 1 min after adding the water conditioner.
What's the temperature of the tank?

Try and keep ammonia at 4 ppm or below, and if i were you i'd try to grab some mature bio-media for the tank.

Hopefully, you get some better result in the next couple of days.
Ed

[gRuNg3b0y]

Yes I condition the water before putting it in the tank I used stresscoat+ the very first time and was told that seachem prime works better so I tried it. My water temp is 80-85 I skipped adding ammonia since that it's already 5.0

Do you know where I can get a mature bio media?? If seeding I might be able to do that but I can only get those in my LFS and I was told that there's a possibility that the tank might have ick or some other stuff. And I read that it takes quite longer to mature a 10G tank and that's what I have..

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

5/23 3:32am

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 0

My heater is set between 82 and 83 and the tank's temperature is 86 It's a bit hot in my room so I'm not sure if the thermometer is reading the room or the tank. Is it ok to raise it to 85 or higher??

Thanks

[MandyL]

Yes, for fishless cycling 85-87 is good.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Alright Thanks

5/24 1:47pm

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 0

[gRuNg3b0y]

5/27 2:00am

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 0

[pinsonpa]

I wouldn't use seeded gravel from your LFS unless you were using the ammonia method, tho. It may contain ICK but ammonia will kill it if it does have it.

Since you did add ammonia and are currently at 4ppm I don't see any reason why you couldn't add some bacteria from an established tank at your local fish store (gravel, filter medium, etc.). If I'm hearing Lady Hobbs correctly, the ammonia already in your tank is probably high enough to kill off "ick" you may carry over from another tank. I should qualify, you'd only want to do this from a REPUTABLE fish store. Not all, but many big chain stores (Walmart, etc.) often have pretty poor fish conditions and I wouldn't use ANYTHING from one of their tanks if you paid me.

If you have a good local fish store (and they're willing) I have them bag up a cup of gravel from an established tank (where all the fish look healthy and happy). When you get home, you can put the gravel in a nylon bag (cut up a pair of nylons/pantyhose) and hang it inside your tank. With ammonia levels at 4ppm and a temp. in the mid 80's this should help kick-start your bacteria growth.

[gRuNg3b0y]

As far as I concern petsmart is one of a good LFS I see so far. There's a couple of fish store as well but I haven't gotten the time to take a look what their tanks look like. I'll drive around on the weekends and see if there's any store is willing to give me some gravel.. They shouldn't charge for it right?? Just wanted to make sure.

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

5/29 3:00pm

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 0

I have a friend that will be moving soon and his willing to give me some of his gravel and filter media (for seeding). But, he lives about 45min to an hour from my place to his. So my question is would the bacteria I'm trying to seed die on my way home??

Thanks

[letk0]

Just keep it in a sealed container immersed in water from their tank and it should be fine.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Came home today and tested my 10Gal and FINALLY there's a slight trace of :19: Nitrite!!!:19: it's lower than .25 but definitely not 0!! I'am so happy!!!! Will be posting more updates soon!!!

Thanks

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - lower than .25

Added 3 litres of tap water with 6 drops of Prime

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/05 3:41pm

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - .25

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/6 3:34am

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - .25

Can anyone tell me what's the readings to Nitrite spike??

Thanks

[MandyL]

A Nitrite spike will be similar to the Ammonia spike - at least 4.0 or so.

[skinni]

your getting there, just alittle more time and it will all be good to go. Your hard work will soon pay off!!!

[gRuNg3b0y]

I know I'm just so glad that my tank made progress and also made me feel good that I'm doing my fishless cycling right this time!

Another question, what readings of ammonia should I maintain when I get my Nitrite spike?? I lost my notes of the total drops of ammonia I put in my tank until it spiked and I read it should be half the total dosage and now I have no clue how many drops should I add until both ammonia and Nitrite are 0.

Thanks

Tank's progress:

6/7 2:44am

Ammonia - 4.0
Nitrite - 1.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/8 2:44am

Ammonia - little less than 4.0
Nitrite - a bit over than 1.0

Note: It's making progress :ssmile:

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/10 2:30am

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - around 4.0

Oh yeah if anyone wonder or care what my 10GL looks like here it is:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Any suggestion for a good fishes I can put in it after the cycle? I'm thinking some schooling fishes like Cardinal Tetras or something. But I'm open to any suggestions

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

2:30 pm

Ammonia - little lower than 2.0
Nitrite - 4.0

[sktadood13]

i think zebra danios well work well
kool frog by the way....i thought it was real:hmm3grin2orange:

[donvichu]

Good to hear that the cycling is going well....and tank looks nice

[gRuNg3b0y]

Thanks it open it's mouth too when filled with air which I find very amusing sometimes lol. I'm walking around at my lfs (checking out fishes and looking how healthy their tanks) so far so that I can get ready when the time comes. I'm thinking 6 cardinal tetras and maybe 1 or 2 other fishes like zebra danios as you mentioned. I just hope that 8 fishes or so in a 10GL is not pushing it though. I'm trying to keep it light stock for less maintenance.

Thanks

6/11

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 5.0

I'm so happy the tank is doing good so far!! Just have to wait for the Nitrates now.

[gRuNg3b0y]

2:30pm

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 5.0

Added 4 drops of ammonia

[gRuNg3b0y]

Anybody heard or have "blushing whiteskirt tetra"? I saw one at the petstore today and I think it's really neat. I'm thinking of having some of those with the cardinals are they compatible with each other??

Thanks

4:45pm

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 4.0
Nitrate - 5.0
pH - 6.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/12

2:30am

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 4.0
Nitrate - 5.0

2:30am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 2.0?
Nitrate - 5.0

Added 4 drops of Ammonia

3:52pm

Ammonia - 2.0

Shouldn't Nitrate higher by now since Nitrite went 2.0??

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/13

2:30am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 2.0?
Nitrate - 5.0

Added 4 drops of Ammonia

Nitrate still on 5.0 does my cycle stalling??

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/14 3:25am

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - around 3.0
Nitrate - 5.0
pH - 6.4

Read the API testing kit instruction and it says that when comparing colors the test tube should be against the white part of the card and I was doing it away(made the color a bit brighter) so I guess there was a couple false test result there. Any opinions??

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/15 5:48 am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 5.0 (closest color in the chart as far as I can see it)
Nitrate - 5.0

Well Ammonia seems going down but my Nitrates is been 5.0 ever since. I have Nitrates and Nitrite spike, I believe, but should my Nitrates went up by now since there's Nitrite eating bacteria?? I asked this before just wanted to put it up again. Any opinions will be appreciated!

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

3:30pm

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 5.0

[NanoTankGuy]

you can mix tetras as long as they aren't too different in size (otherwise, they'll eat each other). But you'd definitely be better off with a shoal of 8 of the same fish, rather than 2 fishes 4 each or whatever. In small tanks, tetras ca nget aggressive if not kept in large shoals.

P.S. I have 5 tetras in my 6 gallon, and sometimes I think they just don't find it nearly as spacy.

:19: Good luck with your new tank:19: . AWESOME frog

[nwnittany]

6/15 5:48 am

Well Ammonia seems going down but my Nitrates is been 5.0 ever since. I have Nitrates and Nitrite spike, I believe, but should my Nitrates went up by now since there's Nitrite eating bacteria?? I asked this before just wanted to put it up again. Any opinions will be appreciated!

Thanks

I've read that you've got to follow the nitrate test instructions to the letter. For the API kit, that involves alot of shaking.....

I'm on a bit of a pH kick, so bear with my next question. Has your pH been steady at 6.4 the entire time ?

One more thing... a few posts back you asked about where to hold the test tube with the API kit (ie, in front of the card, tight against the card, etc). I've always wondered this myself. Do they just mean to hold it in front of the white background of the card (ie, so you get a true color) or do they mean to hold it tight against the card (which makes it a bit darker, but maybe the color stays the same) ?

I guess one other question for the experts is since you don't have higher nitrates, should you continue to feed the nitrites with some more ammonia.... ie, if for some reason the nitrite->nitrate conversion is slow, could you end up stalling the whole cycle if you don't keep feeding the nitrites... this is just a question - I have no idea what the answer is, but would had to see you lose the progress...

[Ryuu]

Sorry to hear, and hope it works out

[gRuNg3b0y]

I've read that you've got to follow the nitrate test instructions to the letter. For the API kit, that involves alot of shaking.....


Yes 10 drops of bottle one then close it and invert it several times. Then shake bottle 2 vigorously for 30 seconds and add yet another 10 drops and shake the test tube vigorously for 1 min.. that's what I've been doing takes a lot of time though and made my arm tired lol.

I'm on a bit of a pH kick, so bear with my next question. Has your pH been steady at 6.4 the entire time ?

my pH the very first time I checked it it was 6.0 and lately it just stayed to 6.4

One more thing... a few posts back you asked about where to hold the test tube with the API kit (ie, in front of the card, tight against the card, etc). I've always wondered this myself. Do they just mean to hold it in front of the white background of the card (ie, so you get a true color) or do they mean to hold it tight against the card (which makes it a bit darker, but maybe the color stays the same) ?

the instruction stated that test tube should be against the white part of the card. I used to read it a little bit away from the card and it made the color a bit brighter and if you placed the tube against the card it gets a bit darker. I'm not really sure what's the right method though.. I'm just reading it while the test tube is against the white part which is leaning towards it.

I guess one other question for the experts is since you don't have higher nitrates, should you continue to feed the nitrites with some more ammonia.... ie, if for some reason the nitrite->nitrate conversion is slow, could you end up stalling the whole cycle if you don't keep feeding the nitrites... this is just a question - I have no idea what the answer is, but would had to see you lose the progress...

IMO the bacteria you are trying to established needs ammonia not adding ammonia will just starve it and die which will make your cycling stall. If you had your Nitrite spike keep the ammonia around 2.0 until both Nitrite and Ammonia are zero that should be a sign that your tank has cycled.

[gRuNg3b0y]

you can mix tetras as long as they aren't too different in size (otherwise, they'll eat each other). But you'd definitely be better off with a shoal of 8 of the same fish, rather than 2 fishes 4 each or whatever. In small tanks, tetras ca nget aggressive if not kept in large shoals.

P.S. I have 5 tetras in my 6 gallon, and sometimes I think they just don't find it nearly as spacy.

:19: Good luck with your new tank:19: . AWESOME frog


Thanks I've decided to get 10 Cardinal tetras (I hope is not too much for a 10GL) instead I just have to finish my cycle!

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/16 3:00pm

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 1.0 (I let my girlfriend read it and I thought it was 2.0)
Nitrate - 5.0

Added 5 drops Ammonia
Added 4 litres tap water w/ 4 drops Prime

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/17 3:00pm

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 5.0

Added 5 drops Ammonia

3:21pm

Ammonia 2.0

Added 3 drops Ammonia

4:00pm

Ammonia - 2.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/18 4:00am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 5.0
pH - 6.4

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/18 1:30pm

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 5.0

Added 6 drops Ammonia

6/19 3:30am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0
Nitrate - 5.0
pH - 6.4

[gRuNg3b0y]

6/25

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 1.0

+6 drops ammonia

This is weird for the passed couple of days now my Ammonia and Nitrite readings are the same. I add at least 5 to 6 drops of ammonia and it'll reach 2.0 then 1.0 could this be that my cycling had crash?? I mean I would leave it for 2 days without ammonia and it never reach .50 As for Nitrates, it just sits to 5.0 Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/01

Ammonia - 2.0
Nitrite - 0

Well, Nitrite went 0 and Nitrate went 20. But Ammonia goes down slowly I don't even think I ever saw it went to 0 once. Do you think my cycle is going??

Thanks

[gRuNg3b0y]

If anyone care to check my cycling progress:

7/02
Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
pH - 6.8

+12 drops Ammonia

30 minutes after adding Ammonia

Ammonia - 2.0 (close to)

+ 6 drops Ammonia

Another half an hour after adding the Ammonia again:

Ammonia - 2.0 (exact)

[gRuNg3b0y]

24 hours after:

7/03

Ammonia - around 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

After 12 hours:

7/04

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

+20 drops Ammonia

Ammonia reading (30 minutes) after adding 20 drops : 2.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

Left the tank alone for yet another 24 hours:

7/05

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

I'm going to let the Ammonia reach to zero before adding more to see if the tank is making progress.

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/06

3:39am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

7/07

1:55am

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 0

4:00pm

Ammonia - .50

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/08

2:02am

Ammonia - about .25

added 25 drops Ammonia

3:05 am (after adding 25 drops)

Ammonia - 2.0

7/09

3:43pm

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - above 40

Added 25 drops Ammonia

4:05pm

Ammonia - 2.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/10

4:06pm

Ammonia - 1.0

7/11

5:24am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40 (blood red)
pH - 6.8

+ 25 drops Ammonia

about 15 minutes after adding ammonia (it's 6am and it's getting late so I couldn't wait for 30 minutes)

Ammonia - a little above 2.0 (3.0 maybe?)

Never knew cycling a 10GL would be this hard/long!! no wonder they don't recommend 10GLs for beginners!!

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/12

4:14pm

Ammonia - 1.0

7/13

3:13pm

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40
Added 22 drops Ammonia

Half an hour later:

Ammonia 2.0

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/15

2:20am

Ammonia - 2.0 (slightly lighter than)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40

Tank's progress slows down for some reason. And it's been 2 months exact since I started cycling. I was wondering if I should just do a water change and maybe it might start cycling again. I need some opinions/advice here, I know at least 3 or 4 members read this a day so it's kinda discouraging not getting any feedback about my cycle.

Thanks

[nwnittany]

Grunge,

I'm a bit of a newbie, so don't take this as gospel.

I didn't read all the posts, but the gist I got was that you went through a phase where you were converting ammonia into nitrites, followed by the phase where the nitrites were 0, and you biology was taking ammonia all the way through to nitrates (looks like this happened in the beginning of July).

Now, you seem to still be converting all the way to nitrates, but you can't seem to get your ammonia to zero, right ?

I would say it might be possible that the filter media just can't handle the amount of ammonia you're dropping in, but I think think this is the case since it stayed at 2.0 from 7/12-7.15 (I'm assuming you didn't add any more ammonia in between those days).

Anything else changed ? Temp and pH OK ?

You might try testing again, then adding more drops, then testing in 24 hours to see if any ammonia is being converted. Maybe the cycle has stalled ?
After reading what I've written, I see I haven't been any help. Consider it moral support....

[gRuNg3b0y]

Grunge,

I'm a bit of a newbie, so don't take this as gospel.

I didn't read all the posts, but the gist I got was that you went through a phase where you were converting ammonia into nitrites, followed by the phase where the nitrites were 0, and you biology was taking ammonia all the way through to nitrates (looks like this happened in the beginning of July).

Now, you seem to still be converting all the way to nitrates, but you can't seem to get your ammonia to zero, right ?

I would say it might be possible that the filter media just can't handle the amount of ammonia you're dropping in, but I think think this is the case since it stayed at 2.0 from 7/12-7.15 (I'm assuming you didn't add any more ammonia in between those days).

Anything else changed ? Temp and pH OK ?

You might try testing again, then adding more drops, then testing in 24 hours to see if any ammonia is being converted. Maybe the cycle has stalled ?
After reading what I've written, I see I haven't been any help. Consider it moral support....

My Nitrite went 0 at 6/30 and it stayed 0 ever since. Then my Nitrate went 20 then it went 40 by 7/03 and stayed the same. I kept my Ammonia at 2.0 after I got my Nitrite spike and my Ammonia will drop from 2.0 to 1.0 for atleast 24 hours I believe that's from 7/03 through 7/09 if I'm not mistaken it even managed to reach .25 (7/08) within the 24 hours as well, so I decided to add 25 drops Ammonia to make it 2.0 Then after 24 hours it went from 2.0 to 1.0 and the process went that way from 7/10 until today. I think you have a point too that I'm adding too much Ammonia (25 drops max) the tank is making progress but slowly compare before it usually takes 24 hours for Ammonia to convert from 2.0 to 1.0 and now it takes at least 36 hours. I tested my tank today after adding 5L tap water

7/17

3:28am

Ammonia - 1.0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40
pH - 6.4 (it was 6.8 at 7/02)

I didn't add Ammonia I'm gonna let it sit for another 24 hours to see if there's going to be any changes and if there's not maybe a water change will help to boost it up a bit.

Thank you for your reply.. Been waiting for other's advice since that I don't want to do anything with the tank yet not until I get some feed back..

[nwnittany]

pH - 6.4 (it was 6.8 at 7/02)



Well, I'm certainly not an expert and only really have a couple of cycles under my belt. So, don't take what I say as gospel.

I think it's odd, too. It would seem that the fact that you are reducing ammonia and creating nitrates would indicate that you have the basis of a cycle.

The fact that it is taking longer to reduce the ammonia and the fact that the ammonia doesn't go to 0 is somewhat puzzling.

I can only think of two things, but these are stretches.

1. maybe your ammonia test kit is off and you really are at 0. 1.0 is a pretty high reading and it would need to be 'off' quite a bit. I've read that some treatments can mess up the ammonia readings, so I guess there's a chance of that.

2. your pH has dropped and I know that the nitrification process is slowed when the pH gets too low. 6.4 isn't low enough to stop it (in my experience) but it might slow it some.

Have you tried reducing the number of drops to, say, just give you a reading of 1.0 and see if that can drop to .25 or so ? If so, I would say that your tank is effectively converting ammonia and the only limitation might be the amount it can convert, which would seem to be a function of the amount of filter media you have. In other words, maybe you just need more filter media for additional bacteria to grow on. This is just a theory.....

[gRuNg3b0y]

Well, I'm certainly not an expert and only really have a couple of cycles under my belt. So, don't take what I say as gospel.

I think it's odd, too. It would seem that the fact that you are reducing ammonia and creating nitrates would indicate that you have the basis of a cycle.

The fact that it is taking longer to reduce the ammonia and the fact that the ammonia doesn't go to 0 is somewhat puzzling.

I can only think of two things, but these are stretches.

1. maybe your ammonia test kit is off and you really are at 0. 1.0 is a pretty high reading and it would need to be 'off' quite a bit. I've read that some treatments can mess up the ammonia readings, so I guess there's a chance of that.

2. your pH has dropped and I know that the nitrification process is slowed when the pH gets too low. 6.4 isn't low enough to stop it (in my experience) but it might slow it some.

Have you tried reducing the number of drops to, say, just give you a reading of 1.0 and see if that can drop to .25 or so ? If so, I would say that your tank is effectively converting ammonia and the only limitation might be the amount it can convert, which would seem to be a function of the amount of filter media you have. In other words, maybe you just need more filter media for additional bacteria to grow on. This is just a theory.....

For the last test result I posted here I didn't add any Ammonia (1.0) I'm letting it stand for 24 hours and if it goes .50 later I'll probably add maybe 5 drops.

As for filter media I have 2 of them in my tank both Aqua clear, one for 20GL which only has the fluval rings and one for 70GL and it has foam and ceramic rings that came with it. And maybe I should get a new Ammonia testing kit since I'd have it for about 2 months now.

"Gospel" or not atleast I'm getting feedback so I thank you for it thumbs2:

Thanks!

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/18

2:57pm

Ammonia - 1.0 (exact)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40
pH - 6.0

pH drops drastically! I'm gonna buy a pH up or something any recommendations?? Ammonia is being converted but slowly 7/17 it's 1.0 but slightly darker. As for Nitrates, I find it very difficult to compare the color between 40 and 80 so the best comparison I could come up with is 40.

[nwnittany]

7/18

2:57pm


pH drops drastically! I'm gonna buy a pH up or something any recommendations??

Just a guess, but I think the low pH is slowing things down.

I generally use something from seachem that is called something like "pH neutral" or "buffer neutral" (at work, don't remember the exact name). It has something in it to raise the pH and add buffer aid (kH). I have really, really soft water in the summer with 0 kH, so I also add some crushed coral in a stocking to the tank. Baking soda would work as well.

Since there's no fish in your tank, you should be able to raise the pH quickly (ie, don't need to do it a decimal point or two at a time).

I think the fact that you are still converting ammonia-->nitrites-->nitrates is a good sign that you still have some semblance of a cycle. It will be interesting to see how things change when you raise the pH.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Alright bought the api pH up (and it's the only one available) and a new ammonia testing kit. The last readings I got before adding couple of splashes of api pH up:

7/19

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40 (sorta between 40 and 80)
pH - 6.4 (I had my girlfriend look at it for me)

I waited atleast an hour and a half after adding the pH up and here's the new result:

Ammonia - .50
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 40 (still between 40 and 80)
pH - 7.0

Added 10 drops Ammonia

Now I'm going to wait it up a little for the Ammonia to spread then test it then test it again after 24 hours!

Thanks

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Sorry, I didn't see this thread earlier. The drop in pH is perfectly normal during the cycle. The use of the pH drops is completely unnecessary. A pH of 6.4 is perfectly fine, that's what all my freshwater tanks run. Once the cycle is complete it will come back up again a bit. IIRC it takes a pH of 5.0 to stop the cycling process, a pH of 6.4 won't slow it down that much, my tanks have actually always cycled faster than expected.

[nwnittany]

Grunge and GB,

I've heard a differing view on pH and the cycle. And, while I don't have many cycles under my belt, I had a cycle that was stalled for weeks and as soon as I raised the pH from 6.0 to 7.0, it started.

Here's a link and an excerpt from the link (can't speak the the credibility, but it seems OK to me):

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]


The pH is also a vital factor in nitrification. Maximum rates of nitrification occur at pH values above 7.2, peaking at 8.3 (a common pH for marine tanks) then falling at higher values. What surprised me was the rate at which the effectiveness of nitrification dropped in acidic pH values: to less than 50% optimal efficiency at pH 7.0, to just under 30% at pH 6.5, and to just over 10% of maximal efficiency at pH 6.0. At these low pH values, nitrifying bacteria don't die, they just stop metabolizing and reproducing. Of course in these acidic conditions, most of the toxic NH3 is ionized to non-toxic NH4. But I had been under the impression (and mentioned here) that the pH needed to drop quite low, below pH 4.8, more like the acidity of a peat bog rather than conditions in a home aquarium. Not so.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

nwnittnay, I'm just speaking from experience. I've cycled 5 tanks with water that was 6.4 and every one of them was cycled in roughly 25-27 days. I didn't add any kind of biological booster to them either.

[nwnittany]

Gb - I hear ya and don't doubt ya. Experience is one thing (of many) I don't have...LOL...

I was just explaining why I told Grunge to watch out for the pH (ie, because I read it and experienced it once).

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/22

1:59am

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - close to 80
pH - 7.0

Finally managed to drop the Ammonia to 0 so it's obvious that the tank made a so so progress!! I added 10 drops Ammonia and will check it again in 12 hours to see if it'll drop to 0 again.

[nwnittany]

Seems like you are in good shape. If you convert that last batch of ammonia, I'd say it's time for a big water change (to clear out the nitrates) and add some fish.

You probably need to keep feeding the tank some ammonia until you add fish....

[gRuNg3b0y]

I added 10 drops this morning and 12 hours later it was 0 so I added another 10 drops just to make sure then I'll do my water change..

[gRuNg3b0y]

Oh yeah any ideas how many cardinal tetras I can put in a 10 gallon tank?? I've decided to get those because I think they blend well in my tank

[gRuNg3b0y]

7/23

12:58am

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 80
pH - 6.6

:19: :19: Tank's cycled!!!:19: :19: I'm going to do water change right after I post this so Thanks for all the help wouldn't be able to pull it out without the AC THANK YOU!!

But before that, I need one more (hopefully last) question... How do I make my pH stable?? I read that Cardinal Tetras (fish I'm getting) is very sensitive when it comes to pH. So any advice would be appreciated.. And yeah, how's 7 Cardinal Tetras in a 10GL??

THANK YOU!!!!!

[gRuNg3b0y]

Readings after the 90% water change:

Ammonia - .25 (?)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
pH - 7.0

Set my heater to 75 and will add extra plants later then fish by the weekends!!

[nwnittany]

Readings after the 90% water change:

Ammonia - .25 (?)
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20
pH - 7.0

Set my heater to 75 and will add extra plants later then fish by the weekends!!

You might test your tap water...a lot of water companies vary their treatments during the year and maybe you hit a spell where they've added ammonia. Not a biggie for your tank, since it is an ammonia eating machine.

I'd check the info on cycling and see if you need to keep adding ammonia until you add the fish (ie, don't let the tank sit idle for several days). But, I'm not positive on this....

To keep my pH stable, I use some crushed coral in the tank. Others use baking soda. It can be a somewhat complicated topic and most of the advice I've seen given here is to leave it alone unless it becomes a problem (ie, starts to really fluctuate alot). Seems like yours is fairly stable at 7.0 now...

Do you think the low pH you had earlier was slowing your cycle ?

[gRuNg3b0y]

hmm pH was between 6.4 to 6.0 when it took atleast 36 hours for ammonia to be converted. When I bought the pH up and made it to 7.0 took about atleast 24 hours to convert Ammonia.. I would say pH has to do something with it. Besides, I read somewhere (can't remember where though) that Ammonia eating bacteria requires about 7.0 or atleast pH to be able to progress. But I could be wrong so correct me if I'am...

[gRuNg3b0y]

Hey all, I have 7 happy neon tetras (read about Cardinal tetras being too sensitive in water pH and not really suited for beginners unless they have the knowledge of their water parameters very well) anyways, I'm thinking of adding another fish maybe 1 or 2 corys, do you think my 10 GL tank is going to be overstocked with 7 neon tetras with 1 or 2 corys?

Thanks

[nwnittany]

Grunge,

I'm not a good person to answer the stocking question. How good is your filter ? Would seem tight to me, but with a good filtration and if you're willing to do the water changes necessary to keep the nitrates down, it would seem OK to me.

I'd wait a week or two, though. If you just cycled, it's probably best to wait a few weeks in between adding new fish.

And, I'd certainly get a 2nd opinion on the stocking thing....Maybe repost is under a new thread if nobody answers here....

[gRuNg3b0y]

hmm so far I'm doing 2 water changes a week and thinking of making it 3 my filter is doing fine it does what it suppose to do. Ammonia is been off the chart and so as nitrites, pH is somewhat stable and Nitrates stays between 5.0 to 10 I should probably leave it alone for another week or so like you stated..

Thanks

[nwnittany]

. Ammonia is been off the chart and so as nitrites, pH is somewhat stable and Nitrates stays between 5.0 to 10

Thanks
Grunge,

Ammonia is off the chart ?? I thought you just finished cycling ? Shouldn't your ammonia and nitrites be 0 ??

Or by 'off the charts', you mean 0 ? (ie, off the low end of the chart) ?

[gRuNg3b0y]

oh oops what I meant was Ammonia 0 and Nitrites 0 sorry

[gRuNg3b0y]

Alright celebrating too early after cycling a tank is not really a good idea because there's always gonna be a problem sooner or later.

Anyway, I have a reading of Ammonia (about .50) it started about 3 days ago. my nitrate was 20 went to 10 and now 5.0 after water change. I used ammo lock by api but it seems it's not helping I'm about to do another water change after I post this and maybe check my filter. Any advice or suggestions please??

Thanks

[nwnittany]

Ammo-Lock won't lower your ammonia reading; it will just convert the ammonia to ammonium, which is far less toxic.

What's the ammonia source ? Is it fish, drops, or from the tap ?

Anything else happen to the tank ?

[gRuNg3b0y]

I would say it's the fish because my girlfriend bought a dwarf gourami without asking me and about a week after, ammonia starts to go up. Right now it's about .25

[Commodore 64]

Keep doing frequent water changes. Refrain from excessively cleaning the tank which will destroy some bacteria.

[gRuNg3b0y]

Yeah I'm keeping up with 3 water changes a week plus ammo lock reduced feeding and checked the filter. My Nitrate is 0 so as Nitrite Ammonia is slowly building up right now is .50 As for the fishes, they seems ok just hungry

[tanks4thememories]

Its too soon to see the fruits of your labor. As to jump starting with bio products I have found that the refrigerated ones seem to work best for me. I have also herd alot of good things about Bio-Spira. Just remember at the worst a normal Cycle is only @ 6 Weeks anyway.

[gRuNg3b0y]

I'm not sure if bio spira is being sold in my local fish store though. I cycled my tank for atleast 2 months. Maybe this wouldn't happen if I just kept 7 neon in it. Oh well it happens so I'll just have to do the best for the tank and the fish. I'm gonna ask about the biospira maybe Saturday.

Thanks

[tanks4thememories]

I know you can order it online.

Here is some usefull cycling info I found:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Here is a good fishless cycle that was very well documented:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

I overlooked this when I first got back into fish:

In a weak tank that is cycling adding chlorinated water directly to the tank and then adding your dechlorination product seems to slow things down Either turn off the filter for 15 mins while you add water and dechlorinator or do it in a seperate bucket then add to tank. I have no scientific proof of this but I had noticed when cycling a few tanks in the past that if the bacteria bed is not established it doesnt help it to poor bleach on it every few days...heheh

[gRuNg3b0y]

Thanks for the link.. I usually pour my dechlorination at the bucket wait for at least a minute then pour it in the tank. I had my water change today and ammonia is about .25 still kinda worrying me a bit since that one of the link you sent me stated that even .01 ammonia could be fatal for the fish.

[nwnittany]

grunge - what are your other measurements ? Do you have any Nitrates ?

[gRuNg3b0y]

grunge - what are your other measurements ? Do you have any Nitrates ?

Now Ammonia went to 1.0 Nitrate is 0 and so as Nitrite. pH 6.0 I added double dose of ammo lock and will do water change tomorrow. I have a question, could it possibly be the reason that I kinda over dosing my prime during water changes?? the instruction says that only put 2 drops every 4 liter (1 gal) of prime and before, I used atleast a capful. As for the fish, I don't see any sign of stress (just swimming around nibbling on decor)