Nothing has gone right - help

[nuzmom]

I apologize for not having all the details correct, I didn't think I'd have all these issues when we started. I'm to the point that I'm giving our tank one last try. I also apologize for the length!!!!! I just didn't want to leave anything out. PLEASE HELP!!!!

We started our 25 gallon, freshwater tank on Jan 12th. We put rinsed gravel and well water in it. Using a penquin filter. Took our water to LFS for testing and pH was very high (like 9.2). Determined it was the well water. Was instructed to remove 1/2 the water and replace with RO or distilled water. Also, sold Seachem neutral regulator and instructed to use it. Did that, waited a week, tested again, pH still around 9.0 or high 8's. Told to do another 50% change and bought driftwood, rocks, plants, and Kent freshwate plant food. Spent a month doing 50% water changes to gradually lower pH. Also kept trying neutral regulator - never worked. Assumed pH was too high for it to work.

After another month or so, pH was around 7.8 and bought 3 red-eyed tetras and Genesis and continued to test at LFS, weekly, and then do water changes with store bought drinking water (processed by RO or distillation). Amonia, Nitrate, Nitrites always tested zero or close to it.

Another month or so of weekly water changes (20 to 30%) and the day the pH was finally around 7.2 (or something the fish store said was "ok" for more tetras), the phosphate level is sky high. Yes, I was battling algae growth on driftwood and rocks (mostly hair algae). I lost all but 3 plants (had 7) - told it was due to the high pH. Was sold BlueVet Phosphate Control. I begged for ANY fish (my 2 sons were dissappointed time and time again at the LFS - they kept saying, next time you come in you'll be able to get a fish). They sold me a $40 algae eater. I can't remember what it is - was told it would help eat the algae. Was also sold benefitial bacteria (yes, now, not at startup) - don't remember why that was. Was told that I shouldn't be using the plant food - no need to.

Returned every 4 or 5 days, phosphates never dropped. Was sold a $20 moss ball. A week later - began ONLY talking with the owner and manager. He sold me Seachem Phosguard and it began working. He also sold me Kent R/O Right and instructed to use it when doing water changes. Was also told to remove the carbon from the filter (and when we change the filter).

Meanwhile, I removed the driftwood (bought from the LFS) thinking it may have been decomposing and causing the high phosphates. Slowly got the phosphates around 0.5 - which was in mid April. Was told that by the end of April we'd be "fine".

Well, our tank was in a sunny location in our home. Not direct sun, but very bright. I had been covering tank 80% of the time with a blanket to help get the phosphates/algae under control. I decided that I DO NOT want to continue to do that, would rather move it. Also, the blue gravel (the LFS suggested to bring out the color in the fish) was NOT my taste - preferred the brown and wanted my driftwood back in the tank.

So, May 2nd, I BOILED the driftwood for 3 hours to remove tannins (figured it couldn't hurt), we MOVED the tank to a less sunny location, doing a 30% water change, and we changed the gravel (all of it). We removed the rocks (LFS bought) because they seem to have rust on them (they have red streaks in them, but this is different and looks like rust, not algae or natural streak). I used about 10 drops of Genesis, thinking it would help to not stress the fish with the move.

Did a home test on water on the 5th and everything seemed "ok". Water has ALWAYS been VERY SOFT and still was and the pH was a bit high (7.4). 1 tetra had fin damage for a long time and it seemed like it was slightly worse. Had been told the soft water wasn't good for tetras and also caused fin rot. Decided that I should try to harden the water. I added 2 teaspoons of baking soda to tank. May 9th, pH was higher (7.8) and water still as soft as the test kit reads. 1 tetra died - the smallest one, not the one with the fin problem.

Today, tried to figure out what to do. Always added R/O right for new water, but today added more to whole tank - 3 teaspoons. Readings prior to addition was Nitrate 15, Nitrite -0.2, Hardness 0, Alkalinity 300, pH 8.0 (atleast). Obviously, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just trying to make the water harder (in the normal range) and keep the pH reasonable. At this point, I'm grasping at straws!!!!

Current set up - new brown gravel, filter without carbon, 2 pieces of driftwood that had been boiled, moss ball pieces layed on driftwood, 2 red-eyed tetras, 1 alga eater, phosguard in bag in filter, and 3 small plants (some "old" hair algae on plant leaves). To clarify, NO well water has EVER been used. Only store bought drinking water (not spring water).

We want to get some more tetras (neons and maybe some others) and have a nice community tank. I've been ready to give it up - the LFS is about 30 minutes from my home - takes TIME to get there. My oldest son REALLY wants this to work out. I'm trying to stick it out "for him", but if this doesn't take a turn for the better pretty soon, I'm done.

Have I done ANYTHING right???? What now??? Why is the pH high and the water soft??? Any help will be appreciated.

[DragonGoby]

Hi and Welcome here.
You're on the right forum, there's a lot of very knowledgeable people here!
Don't give up on your tank... I know it's easy for me to say so, but don't give up... You have done all you could, but sometimes people at Lfs are not the best to help...

First thing first : you have done a lot of change in your tank... That's certainly the reason why you lost a fish... Continous change and disturbing their environment can easily stress fish... And the stress can kill them...
For a fish, the most important thing is stability... Even a pH little higher than normal, if stable, can be supported by most of the fish...
I suggest that you buy some test kit (pH, ammonia, nitrites and nitrates), it'll help you monitor your tank, without having to wait for the lfs...

The fact that you take out all your gravel set back the nitrogen cycle (in short: when there's ammonia in your tank, bacteria appear, eat the ammonia and give nitrites, other bacteria appear, eat the nitrites and give nitrate... simplistic, I know) that's certainly why you have nitrites, and perhaps ammonia (did you test it too?).

Waht I can suggest you is to stop trying stabilising the pH. Let it be the way it is... Wait for your cycle to establish again before adding any fish. Let the plants and your bogwood in there. Then test your pH again, and try to find fish who like those conditions.
This way you won't have to mess with your water conditions and they'll be more stable.
Oh another question : what type of filter (and media) do you have in your 25 gal?

If you want there's the e-book free on this site that'll help you.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

[nuzmom]

DragonGoby - thank you for your kind reply!!!

Yeah, I made major changes (poor fish), but I figured putting the wood back in and moving to a less sunny location was for the better. Since we were moving the tank, disturbing the gravel to put the wood back in, I decided it was "ok" to change out the gravel. I do have to say that I like it a lot better now.

Our filter is a penguin bio wheel 200. I have never touched the rotating wheel, have only changed the blue filter media - now first removing the carbon.

I did buy a test kit a month into this. It's a mardel, 5 in 1 test strips. It does not test for ammonia or phosphates. The nitrates and nitrites are well within the safe range indicated on the test kit. I have cut back on my trips to the LFS. I was going about every 2 weeks, but haven't been since mid-April (because they said phos would be stable at end of April and I wanted to make the move before returning).

I don't understand why the pH is spiking. The water we use for changes has a 6.4 pH. So, what is causing the pH to go high? I thought it might have to do with the water being so soft. I'm very confused by the whole buffering "thing". I'm going to go look for that ebook.

[Lady Hobbs]

I apologize for not having all the details correct, I didn't think I'd have all these issues when we started. I'm to the point that I'm giving our tank one last try. I also apologize for the length!!!!! I just didn't want to leave anything out. PLEASE HELP!!!!

No apologizes needed. We need all the details to figure out what's going on.

We started our 25 gallon, freshwater tank on Jan 12th. We put rinsed gravel and well water in it. Using a penquin filter. Took our water to LFS for testing and pH was very high (like 9.2). Determined it was the well water. Was instructed to remove 1/2 the water and replace with RO or distilled water.

This pH is extremely high and I think you will have a hard time keeping fish in that water. They are very adapatable to a wide range of pH but your's is over-the-top. I would have to suspect your pH is high due to the substrate you're using, or rocks in your tanks. (?)

Also, sold Seachem neutral regulator and instructed to use it. Did that, waited a week, tested again, pH still around 9.0 or high 8's. Told to do another 50% change and bought driftwood, rocks, plants, and Kent freshwate plant food. Spent a month doing 50% water changes to gradually lower pH. Also kept trying neutral regulator - never worked. Assumed pH was too high for it to work.

Check your water right from the tap first. Then you will know if it is your water or something in your tank that is raising it. The pH adjusters that reduce your pH NEVER work. It will bring it down for a short time but then it will raise again in a few hours. The pH adjusters that raise your pH work fine........but not those that reduce it.

Water changes will also have no effect if it comes high from your tap.

After another month or so, pH was around 7.8 and bought 3 red-eyed tetras and Genesis and continued to test at LFS, weekly, and then do water changes with store bought drinking water (processed by RO or distillation). Amonia, Nitrate, Nitrites always tested zero or close to it.

If ammonia, nitrites and nitrates were always 0, then the tank never cycled.

Another month or so of weekly water changes (20 to 30%) and the day the pH was finally around 7.2 (or something the fish store said was "ok" for more tetras), the phosphate level is sky high. Yes, I was battling algae growth on driftwood and rocks (mostly hair algae). I lost all but 3 plants (had 7) - told it was due to the high pH. Was sold BlueVet Phosphate Control. I begged for ANY fish (my 2 sons were dissappointed time and time again at the LFS - they kept saying, next time you come in you'll be able to get a fish). They sold me a $40 algae eater. I can't remember what it is - was told it would help eat the algae. Was also sold benefitial bacteria (yes, now, not at startup) - don't remember why that was. Was told that I shouldn't be using the plant food - no need to.

Plants need light. Unless you have plants for LOW LIGHT tanks, they will not live under just tank lights. If you get something like hornwort, java moss or java fern and maybe some anibus and attach to wood, that will work. But, that pH is nearly too high for any plants, too.

Returned every 4 or 5 days, phosphates never dropped. Was sold a $20 moss ball. A week later - began ONLY talking with the owner and manager. He sold me Seachem Phosguard and it began working. He also sold me Kent R/O Right and instructed to use it when doing water changes. Was also told to remove the carbon from the filter (and when we change the filter).

R/O Right should only be needed if you are using ALL RO water. Many that use RO use half RO and half tap to eliminate that need. Phosphate Guard or any other phosphate/silicate removers generally work pretty well but as far as I know, will still not alter or lower the pH levels. I use phosphate pillows and my pH remains at 7.6 where it has remained forever.

Meanwhile, I removed the driftwood (bought from the LFS) thinking it may have been decomposing and causing the high phosphates. Slowly got the phosphates around 0.5 - which was in mid April. Was told that by the end of April we'd be "fine".

Driftwood helps soften the water and does not cause the high phosphates.

Well, our tank was in a sunny location in our home. Not direct sun, but very bright. I had been covering tank 80% of the time with a blanket to help get the phosphates/algae under control. I decided that I DO NOT want to continue to do that, would rather move it. Also, the blue gravel (the LFS suggested to bring out the color in the fish) was NOT my taste - preferred the brown and wanted my driftwood back in the tank.

Tanks are fine near a window if they do not get direct sunlight hitting them. I have one tank that the edge catches the sun so added some background paper to shield that side of the tank. As long as direct sunlight is blocked, it should be fine.

All new tank will get a period of brown algae.....diatoms.....that are a pain but will disappear once the tank is established. Also, if you had plants and not the required light to grow them, those will get algae.

Brown gravel and wood looks far better than blue gravel. Your guy at the fish store is having a good time selling you a bunch of stuff!

So, May 2nd, I BOILED the driftwood for 3 hours to remove tannins (figured it couldn't hurt), we MOVED the tank to a less sunny location, doing a 30% water change, and we changed the gravel (all of it). We removed the rocks (LFS bought) because they seem to have rust on them (they have red streaks in them, but this is different and looks like rust, not algae or natural streak). I used about 10 drops of Genesis, thinking it would help to not stress the fish with the move.

Put your rocks in a bowl, pour straight vinegar on them, and if they do not fizz, they are fine. If they fizz, do not use them. If you purchased your wood, it was already processed and needed no boiling. That is really only required when getting wild driftwood but many do boil it to remove tannins. However, the tannins do not hurt anything and will clear up with regular water changes in time. Tannins soften your water and is a good thing in your case.

I have to wonder if you have coral rock?????

Did a home test on water on the 5th and everything seemed "ok". Water has ALWAYS been VERY SOFT and still was and the pH was a bit high (7.4). 1 tetra had fin damage for a long time and it seemed like it was slightly worse. Had been told the soft water wasn't good for tetras and also caused fin rot. Decided that I should try to harden the water. I added 2 teaspoons of baking soda to tank. May 9th, pH was higher (7.8) and water still as soft as the test kit reads. 1 tetra died - the smallest one, not the one with the fin problem.

Today, tried to figure out what to do. Always added R/O right for new water, but today added more to whole tank - 3 teaspoons. Readings prior to addition was Nitrate 15, Nitrite -0.2, Hardness 0, Alkalinity 300, pH 8.0 (atleast). Obviously, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just trying to make the water harder (in the normal range) and keep the pH reasonable. At this point, I'm grasping at straws!!!!

Current set up - new brown gravel, filter without carbon, 2 pieces of driftwood that had been boiled, moss ball pieces layed on driftwood, 2 red-eyed tetras, 1 alga eater, phosguard in bag in filter, and 3 small plants (some "old" hair algae on plant leaves). To clarify, NO well water has EVER been used. Only store bought drinking water (not spring water).

We want to get some more tetras (neons and maybe some others) and have a nice community tank. I've been ready to give it up - the LFS is about 30 minutes from my home - takes TIME to get there. My oldest son REALLY wants this to work out. I'm trying to stick it out "for him", but if this doesn't take a turn for the better pretty soon, I'm done.

Have I done ANYTHING right???? What now??? Why is the pH high and the water soft??? Any help will be appreciated.

I know someone will come along with better advice than I can give. But adding additives not only is stressful to you, more costly to you and the constant changing of the waters chemistry is harmful to the fish. pH should never be changed more than .4 in any 24 hour period. So, if you are trying to drop the pH from 9 to 7 immediately, you are putting the fish thru a huge shock.

If you are now using only store bought water, this too will get to be expensive unless you can refill the bottles at those filling stations but still a huge pain in the rear.

Will you check your pH from the tap and let us know what you have for a reading from that? Perhaps we can go from there first to better understand just what's going on.

Since you changed out your gravel, you still do not have a tank that is started to cycle.

[Minderella83]

I use well water and have the exact opposite. pH 6.0, very soft though. After you run out of the strips, you should buy a liquid test kit, everyone says they are more accurate. Most people on here use API master freshwater kit. I use spring water because the ph is 8.0 I want livebearers. Maybe we need to send each other some water. LOL. Good luck with your fish.

[MandyL]

OK let's see what's going on here... You are using 100% store-bought water, and adding RO Right?
My biggest concern with that is what type of water you are using... Is it the same every time?

Personally I have similar problems, we have well water that has pH and hardness off the charts, and ammonia straight from the tap. I use a home RO unit and have nothing but success. I highly recommend it - it's going to save you money in buying water, and time in going to the store for it all the time. As well, you know exactly what water you are using, and it will be consistent every time.

Like I said, I use 100% RO water from my own unit, and use RO Right to reconstitute it until it's around 6.8pH and right in the middle or the KH and GH (can't remember the exact numbers).

I have lots of live plants, low-medium lighting, and I dose with most of the Flourish line of fertilizers. A tiny algae problem that the otos take care of. Like I said before, when you use your own RO water, there should not be any problems with phosphates.

I think your problem is that since your kH is so low, it can't buffer the pH, and something in your tank is raising the pH. What decor do you have in there now? If you have rocks, take them out and drop some vinegar on them. If it sizzles, don't use them, they will raise your pH. You can do the same test on your gravel but it should be fine.

Last but not least, buy an API master liquid test kit. Your test strips could be very unreliable, and that could be part of your problem.

If I missed any of your questions let me know!

[MandyL]

Put your rocks in a bowl, pour straight vinegar on them, and if they do not fizz, they are fine. If they fizz, do not use them. If you purchased your wood, it was already processed and needed no boiling. That is really only required when getting wild driftwood but many do boil it to remove tannins. However, the tannins do not hurt anything and will clear up with regular water changes in time. Tannins soften your water and is a good thing in your case.



Sorry I just want to clarify... You have SOFT water with HIGH pH, right? So you don't want to soften your water at all. Likely your soft water is what is causing your pH to be easily swung higher.

[Lady Hobbs]

Or the wrong gravel or rocks are in the tank raising the pH.

[nuzmom]

OK let's see what's going on here... You are using 100% store-bought water, and adding RO Right?
My biggest concern with that is what type of water you are using... Is it the same every time?

I test with a liquid pH kit. pH is pretty consistent from bottle to bottle (6.4 to 6.8). Had it tested at LFS once and they confirmed a pH of 6.4 and that phosphates was zero.

I think your problem is that since your kH is so low, it can't buffer the pH, and something in your tank is raising the pH. What decor do you have in there now?
This makes a LOT of sense. I do not have the rocks in the tank and have no plans of putting them back in - don't care for the red rocks with brown wood and gravel. However, did the vinegar test and no fizz or sizzle - nothing.


Yes, I have VERY SOFT water with high pH. What is causing the soft water and what can I do about it?

[MandyL]

What is the gh and kh of the bottled water? Do you add RO Right all the time to it?

My only thought is perhaps the water you buy is too soft, and the pH too high in comparison. When I use RO water it comes out of the unit with less than 6.0 pH and then I reconstitute it.

[nuzmom]

Thank you for all of the replies. I will plan on purchasing a liquid test kit sometime this next week.

To clarify - I am not (except for 1/2 of initial setup in January) using our tap water. We have well water, that goes through a softener because of it being hard, with a pH over 9.0. Yes, I use store bought water.

I'm hesitant to purchase a home RO unit being that we've spent so much already and we're almost to the point of giving up. If all goes well, I'd be interested in purchasing one in the future.

So, in my tank I have gravel, 3 low-light plants, 2 pieces of driftwood (it came weighed down by slate?), moss on driftwood, and my 3 fish. Also, heater and filter. Oh, I do have a thermometer, too - it's the kind on a metal backing - it hangs by hooking on the edge of my hood.

I was told at the fish store that the tank cycled. That was before I was doing any testing at home. The nitrate/nitrites have never gone out of the "safe" range in the last 2 months. Is it possible it didn't cycle since set up in January (I'm not trusting the LFS at all anymore)? Now, maybe it will need to cycle again because of the gravel change, but I was hoping with the bacteria that was on the filter and reusing about 50% (or maybe slightly more) of the tank water, that it won't have to. Should I be anticipating that it will cycle again?

Also, to clarify, my pH WAS under control, I HAD been dealing with high phosphate levels. The algae improved quite a bit, so I THINK the phosphate was coming under control, too. All that changed when we moved the tank.

The water has ALWAYS been "very soft". Is that the problem?

[MandyL]

If it did fully cycle in Jan. you should be ok now... Maybe a mini-cycle due to changing the gravel, but with your filter not changed you should be ok.

If you can tell us the exact readings of your gh, kh, and ph as it is right now in your tank, it will help us to judge. "Very soft" does not neccesarilly mean too soft.

[nuzmom]

What is the gh and kh of the bottled water? Do you add RO Right all the time to it?

My only thought is perhaps the water you buy is too soft, and the pH too high in comparison. When I use RO water it comes out of the unit with less than 6.0 pH and then I reconstitute it.
Thank you so much for all your comments. I just went and tested my RO water with a test strip - 6.4pH, Alkalinity - 0, Hardness - 0, Nitrite - 0, and Nitrate - 0.

Just tested my tank, again with test strip since that what I have:
pH - looks like 8.0, could be closer to the 8.4 color (probably somewhere in between)
Total Alkalinity (is this kh?) - 300 ppm (although 240 and 300 look close to the same color)
Total Hardness (is this gh?) - looks like 0, but could be somewhere between 0 and 25ppm (those are the 2 lowest colors)
Nitrite - 0, or close to it (definitely not 0.5 or above)
Nitrate - 20ppm

So, what do you think?

Is there anyway to know for sure if it cycled or not? Between what the store said and the fact that I put in "liquid benefitial bacteria" (I don't know what it was exactly called), I trusted that it did.

[smoochxoxo]

I have high PH with extremely soft well water and ammonia like I do believe Mandy has.
I was told that the reasoning behind the high ph is due to the acidic levels in the water. The water will resist any type of chemicle changes. Trust me I have tried. I have used an acid buffer to help maintain a lower ph so that it is stable but it is a pain in the tush! So I changed my water changes. I use city water (dechlorinated of course) and Distilled water. 60% distilled when I change or atleast 1/2 and 1/2. This has helped me keep the ph around 7.4
Yeah still on the higher side but much better in my eyes with making sure it is stable.

If you can't buy a huge RO set up there is one that is a small unit made by API I do believe. A friend of mine uses this for his tanks and said it works wonders. If I can find you a link I will add it to this thread so you can see what I am speaking of.

What types of foods are you feeding? Frozen foods contain phosphates in the water they are frozen with so I have been told. That will add to your levels and so will overfeeding. For Brown algae especially overfeeding is a culprit and being a newer tank. Keeping lights on 8-10 hours will help get some algaes under control, and keeping it on too long will make other algaes worse.
Gl

[MandyL]

Do you add RO Right every time then? The only difference between yours and mine is mine starts with lower pH. So it makes sense that if you add RO Right to reconstitute it, it will raise your hardness but will also raise your pH.

Pretty much if you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and a number of nitrates (like your 20 is a good number), you have cycled. It's possible to have very low nitrates and still have cycled due to plants (that's my case) but if you have any ammonia or nitrites at all you have not cycled completely.

[nuzmom]

I do use RO Right everytime. Boy, I didn't realize it changes the pH!!!! Here, I was using RO so that the pH would be lower then my well water. But, then I was told that RO needed RO right added (because essential minerals are missing?). Now what?

Instead of RO right, use 1/2 RO and 1/2 well water? I can only use the well water after it's gone through the softener. Is that bad? The well water is testing at a pH and total alkalinity above the colors on the test strip (8.4 pH and 300 ppm). The total hardness is 0ppm. Gee, that almost seems like what I'm getting with RO after adding RO right?

My main concern with the soft water is fin rot and pH swings. Maybe I shouldn't be concerned about having soft water?

To revisit - we're TRYING to have tetras. Maybe that's my mistake? Maybe it's not going to be possible? Is there something else I should try instead? When looking at the fish in the pet store, my kids lean towards the tetra "type" of fish.

Oh, as far as feeding - I don't use frozen food. I use TetraMin. About 4 average sized flakes a day.

[MandyL]

The problem is, whatever water you are buying is not pure RO water if it has a pH of 6.4. If you could find pure RO water with a pH of less than 6.0, then you can choose to either add Ro Right or mix with your well water. As it is now, anything you do to raise the hardness will also raise the pH, and your pH is starting too high for that kind of adjustment. Does that make sense?

And yes, RO Right will raise both hardness and pH.

[smoochxoxo]

I was just reading about water softner units and I would say that you might not want to do that. Most units used sodium ion to soften the water so to me that means high phosphates.
Is there a way that you can access the water in a turn off valve before the unit? I don't have a water softener so I don't know how they are combined with well water lines. If you can I would see about getting water readings from that. Then go from there.

[Minderella83]

Mandy, How much does RO right raise the ph?

[nuzmom]

The problem is, whatever water you are buying is not pure RO water if it has a pH of 6.4. If you could find pure RO water with a pH of less than 6.0, then you can choose to either add Ro Right or mix with your well water. As it is now, anything you do to raise the hardness will also raise the pH, and your pH is starting too high for that kind of adjustment. Does that make sense?

And yes, RO Right will raise both hardness and pH.
Yes, makes complete sense. So, getting an RO unit so that I can start with lower pH is an option (or "finding" RO water with a lower starting pH). Do I have any other options? Like different fish? (sorry if that's a stupid question)

[MandyL]

Mandy, How much does RO right raise the ph?


It depends on how much you add of it. I add just enough to bring it to 6.8 - and I am not sure what the starting pH is as my tester doesn't go below 6.0.

[MandyL]

There are certainly fish that can live in hard, high pH water. But it concerns me that your gH is 0 when the others are high. Check out [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] for more info on each aspect... But I can't figure out why your gH stays so low.

[Minderella83]

My water starts at about 6 so I was interested in it. I have a water softener and I think it also has an RO thing on it too but I have had it for about 6 yrs and cant remember what all it has. Thank you for the info

[nuzmom]

There are certainly fish that can live in hard, high pH water. But it concerns me that your gH is 0 when the others are high. Check out [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] for more info on each aspect... But I can't figure out why your gH stays so low.
As far as the tank goes, the water I'm adding has 0gH (for whatever reason). It seems that the RO Right doesn't affect that. So, the tank has 0gH. As far as my tap water, I bet it has something to do with the water softener. Makes sense - the softener is doing just that, softening (0 gH).

I need to investigate a little bit, but we MIGHT have a way to get some water prior to the softener. I know I could TEST it somehow (we have a holding tank that I can access), but to actually have it available to use is another story. Maybe if it tests as what we need, we could put a tap into the main line prior to the softener and use our well water. Wow - if that all works out, I'll be thrilled.

I'll try to use the well water directly before giving up on this. Sounds like fish that like SOFT, high pH water are limited (if there even are any).

[MandyL]

Yes, try to access your water before the softener and do tests on it. Even if you have to add some RO water to it, at least you will get proper levels of gh/kh in relation to each other.

I'll do a test when I get home of how much the RO Right raises my levels. I am positive that it does raise my gh as well as kh and ph.

[nuzmom]

I'm thrilled to report on my pre-softener water.
pH - 7.2 :19: and gH (total hardness) - 250 :19:

My kH is VERY hard to read. It turned the color on the strip blue. I'm thinking that that is above the 300ppm.

As far as pH and gH, I'm convinced that I can mix my pre-softened well water with tap water (post softened) to achieve a desired result. If that doesn't work, I think I could mix the well water with RO water (no RO right).

I'm not clear on what I need to do for the total Alkalinity. Oh wait - the RO water has 0 kH, so seems to me that I should be able to mix with RO and have it work out. I'm now excited about the fish tank again. Seems like there might be some solution here. thumbs2:

I so appreciate everyone's comments. MandyL, I can't thank you enough!!! The LFS had pretty much given up on figuring out what was going on. I am so thankful I went ahead and posted on this forum. You guys are the best!!

[Minderella83]

I want my well water before the softener to be 7.2 I am JEALOUS LOL

[MandyL]

WOW well that was worth testing!!! I am thrilled for you! Frankly I would not worry about the hardness - kH is a good thing as it buffers your pH and makes it hard to get swings.

You now have normal pH and fairly hard water. You can definitely work with that! I wouldn't bother mixing it or changing it at all. Maybe someone else can advise better about how hard is too hard for tetras etc. But IMO you could pretty much put anything in there.

Woohoo party time in your tank! Just remember to change the water very slowly so as not to shock the fish that you have in there. Once you get it mostly changed to the water you want, I don't see why you couldn't add more fish. Just watch it and make sure you don't get an ammonia or nitrite spike.

[RichBowyer]

.....We have well water, that goes through a softener because of it being hard, with a pH over 9.0.

I'd like to see if anyone else can respond to this. I'm not too sure using water from a household softener is ideal. Can you test the water pH and hardness before the softener?

Also I'd like to add that my well water varies from a high 7 to a high 9 so be aware of that.

[Minderella83]

I have a faucet before my softener and one after and they test the same for the pH.

[RichBowyer]

Oops. I see she already did test. Thats me, late to the party.

[jenpedi]

tested today:
ammonia. 0
nitrites. 0
nitrates. 30

So I guess I need to do a water change now. What % should I change?

[Lady Hobbs]

Try to do enough to bring the nitrates to below 20 with 10 even better. My guess would be 50% which is always a safe number. Clean nothing.

[nuzmom]

I have a faucet before my softener and one after and they test the same for the pH.
I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the type of softener. I imagine that there are different ways to soften water and different types of softeners. Just my guess on that one. I know for sure that we have a MUCH lower pH prior to the softener than what we have after.

MandyL - I would love to just be able to use the well water. I'm going to research that a little bit more, while I start gradual water changes. I'm thinking a 50% right now is probably ok since the pH is on the upswing. Maybe that will hold it more in line with what it was prior to the move. What would you recommend? Maybe once a week? 50% too much or is that ok? That would give me a little time to figure out if I need to use any RO water.

It's just so exciting to think that we may be able to have a tank that we'll ENJOY!!!!

I guess my question now becomes - can kH and gH be too high? I'll go read a bit, but if anyone knows and cares to comment, that would be great.

[Drip Loop]

African Cichlids would love your water. If I remember correctly you had high PH and high KH ya?

From my experience, Cichlids are some of natures most beautiful fish anyways. I have both a tetra tank, and a cichlid tank and without question cichlids are more forgiving.

Give it a shot if all else fails, your water is right for something.

[MandyL]

Rather than 50% once a week I would do 10-20% daily. Easier on the fish and less buckets to carry LOL.

I really don't think your kh or gh are too hard. You should be able to keep just about anything (that suits your tank of course!)