heater in the filter

[drawnon]

I have been seeing some filters that come with built in heaters. I’m wondering if I can stick my heater in my emperor 280 filter area just to un-clutter the tank a little. It is large enough to accommodate the heater quite nicely. Anybody ever try this? I wonder if it would still heat the water enough, or if the water doesn’t stay in the filter long enough to get heated. The tank in question is a 29 gallon.
Any thoughts?

James:27:

[cocoa_pleco]

its possible, but ive heard bad things about it, and that its uneven

[gm72]

Not sure what the result would be with that much water flow moving past the heater. Interesting idea though.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I personally wouldn't try it with a filter that is not designed to have a heater installed in it. The Eheim Pro 2 and Pro 3 series all have built in heater models available and I know that the TetraTec PF500 has a heater spot as well, but I would be very cautious about trying it with an Emperor 280.

[cocoa_pleco]

another thing is if you want a hidden heater, hydor sells a heater that goes on canister filter tubes

[PUNISHER VETTE]

This does seem like a cool idea

[cocoa_pleco]

one bad thing im thinking is the heat would get concentrated in the filter, and most filters say something like "do not operate in 90f+ water"

[Incredulous_Ed]

If it gets too hot in the filter you may have a problem.

Another thing to watch out for is making sure the water is really well circulated, so all the heat gets distributed evenly, so maybe get a power head or something.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Isn't like 80-90% of the good bacteria in the filters? getting extra hot could kill them off limiting your filtering of the toxins

[Incredulous_Ed]

I think the bacterias actually rows faster in higher temps (around 85f) so I dont think it would be a problem. But then again, what do i know?

[cocoa_pleco]

they grow best in higher temps, like ed said around 85f

[AquaBANG]

I am thinking that it would be a lot of heat get wasted and this would relect on your power expenses.

[drawnon]

thanks guys. this was an awesome discusion.
this forum rocks.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Wouldn't the heater still go to the set temperature? So instead of heating so and so gallons of water to 79degrees you'd only be heating the tiny 1/2 gallon of water to that temp. I would think you'd have to bump the heat up to super hot to allow for it to flow out and heat the tank some.

[Algenco]

how would that be different to using a Rena
Smart heater"? Which replaces the intake tube on a canister, or the Hydor ETH inlines that I use which go in the output line?

The main concern I would have would be the effects of the heater contacting the plastic body of the filter

[gm72]

how would that be different to using a Rena
Smart heater"? Which replaces the intake tube on a canister, or the Hydor ETH inlines that I use which go in the output line?

The main concern I would have would be the effects of the heater contacting the plastic body of the filter

True, with both statements.

[fastfly]

True, with both statements.

The specific heat capacity of water is huge. With that said, you would not need to worry about the water in the filter to over heat. Most of you are running filters that run 100-300gph. Which is ~3 gallons a minute.

With that kind of flow, you do not need to worry about the plastic overheating or the water in the filter to get overly hot. It should also heat the tank better than having it sit in the tank, hoping a current catches your heated water and moves it about the tank.

[gm72]

We aren't talking about the water itself getting too hot, but rather the heater contacting the plastic of the filter. I have seen (felt) some filters, particularly some of the cheaper brands, get very, very hot to the point where I wouldn't want to hold them too long when actively heating.

[cocoa_pleco]

We aren't talking about the water itself getting too hot, but rather the heater contacting the plastic of the filter. I have seen (felt) some filters, particularly some of the cheaper brands, get very, very hot to the point where I wouldn't want to hold them too long when actively heating.

i definitely agree, one time when a heater was on i accidentally bumped my hand against it and dam it was hot, i would imagine it could at least warp the plastic a bit

[fastfly]

i definitely agree, one time when a heater was on i accidentally bumped my hand against it and dam it was hot, i would imagine it could at least warp the plastic a bit


The heater will always be within a few degrees of the water. The heater will be putting out 150w or whatever, but that energy is quickly absorbed by the water.

[gm72]

Obviously from what Cocoa and I are saying the heater is not, as you say, always within a few degrees of the water.

[cocoa_pleco]

yep, but still, the heater is kinda like a electric stove, put your hand a few inches from the burner, it will get hot, touch the burner and you will burn your hand, same thing with the heater

[gm72]

Right, exactly.

[fastfly]

yep, but still, the heater is kinda like a electric stove, put your hand a few inches from the burner, it will get hot, touch the burner and you will burn your hand, same thing with the heater

It really isn't though.

Air has a lower specific heat than that of the metal stove (heater). This means that when the metal stove gets hot, the air around it will heat to the temperature of the metal almost immediately. That is why when you put your hand near the burner it feels hot. Not because you are feeling the burner but because you are feeling the air that the burner heated up.

Not this metal burner has a much lower specific heat than that of water.

The metal will go to the temperature of the water very quickly. There will still be a differential in temperature but I cannot see it being more than a few degrees. The energy that the heater is putting out will quickly go into the water making the heater stay cooler as well.


Touch your heater under water and see if it feel 'hot.' If you get burned it is not my fault and I am wrong.

[fastfly]

Either way, I assume the heater would be in the filter after the pump. This would allow the motor to stay cool with incoming water.

[gm72]

I don't think we are suggesting that you will get directly burned but rather that repeated and prolonged exposure to a heater could, as already stated, at least warp the plastic of the filter.

[fastfly]

I don't think we are suggesting that you will get directly burned but rather that repeated and prolonged exposure to a heater could, as already stated, at least warp the plastic of the filter.


I have an old school glass heater but I thought most heaters these days came in plastic housings.

[gm72]

Actually the only ones that come with plastic housings, as far as I know, are the Visitherm Stealth heaters. Most of us agree that they are the "best" available now.

[Algenco]

I have an old school glass heater but I thought most heaters these days came in plastic housings.

Nope, most are still in glass, stealth are plastic coated aluminum , a few are titanium

[gm72]

Ah yes, forgot about the titanium ones.

[drawnon]

Let me throw this into the equasion.
I have a 150 watt Visi-Therm Deluxe Heater

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

And I can fit it in a way that it will not touch any sides of the plastic filter. The heater is glass and the holder thing with suction cups is made of plastic. So… I might just try this.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

The problem is that there is so much flow inside the filter that you run the risk of having that flow knock the heater loose. If that happens then you will still have the heater in contact with the plastic. It a risk I'm not so sure I'd be willing to take.

[drawnon]

wow. now that is something i didnt think about.
good call.
maybe i shouldnt try to make something that isnt, and instead, buy something that is.
refering to the filters that have built in heaters that is.

thanks again every one.
james:27: