Cycle Crashed - Strange water perameters?

[Cichlid_Man]

OK,
I have a 30 gallon that I cycled with shrimp.
There are no fish in it as of yet so no harm done.
I was unable to get to town to buy fish after it cycled, and the cycle has now crashed.
I know it crashed because I went to add some brine shrimp as if I were feeding fish to see how much the ammonia would rise, and how fast it would "go away". I wanted to see how much of a load it could handle.
I tested the water and I am getting numbers I can't understand.
The ammonia is up between 4 and 8 ppm.
Nitrites are slightly above 1.
Here is what I don't understand.
My nitrates are up at 50 ppm?

I figured I would see an ammonia and nitrite spike, but if I understand the cycle correctly, how can you have nitrates also?

I thought nitrates come into play when the other 2 start dropping off?

Can someone explain how I could have all 3 at such high levels?

[jeffs99dime]

what's your nitrate level from your water supply? (tap water, etc?)
also, what kind of test kit are you using? liquid or strips? the strips can be very inaccurate.

[Cichlid_Man]

The tap water has zero nitrites/nitrates/ammonia.

I have a pretty decent test kit.
American Pharmaceuticals, not strips.

It's just odd that nitrites, nitrates and ammonia are all present and rather high

I'll just let it cycle through again.
I am in no hurry to add fish.

[kimmers318]

My understanding of the different levels of "good bacteria" are that the ammonia eating ones are the quickest to arrive, the nitrite ones take longer, and the nitrate ones even longer. It stands to reason that if they are quicker to arrive, they may also be quicker to die. If that is true...a couple of days of no ammonia supply could have made you lose the ammonia eating bacteria, but there may still have been some of the nitrite and nitrate ones around that were ready and able to gobble up that ammonia and nitrite as it came along....and that seems to me that would make it possible to get reads on all 3. Do exactly what you are doing....continue to watch...and you will know when you have completed the cycle.

[Lady Hobbs]

Because you are once again starting a cycle. It will work just as it did the first time around but because you already have some good bacteria, it will not take long to see the nitrates again.

The next time you do a cycle and have no fish yet, just add about 3 drops of ammonia a day to keep it going.

[Cichlid_Man]

Hobbs/Kimmer

That sounds like it is the right answer.

I'll wait it out and hopefully it won't be too long before I can add fish.

I got caught up with my son's birthday and football banquet dinner and forgot about getting to town for fish.

If it happens again, I'll just remember to keep adding the ammonia so I don't lose the cycle..

Thanks!

[NorthernBoy]

Nitrates will continue to rise. To lower nitrates you need to either have nitrate eating plants or do water changes. NH3/NH4 increase and than Nitrates are produced. Nitate convert into nitates and then you either need to remove the nitrates or have some sort of plant to consume some of the nitrates. I don't think your tank has crashed at all. If it had I think you would have seen a cloudy tank again when you increased the bioload (added food). I would to a partial change (about 25%) and continue to add either the shrimp or the drops as Hobbs says. After the water change read your nitrates and I bet they will be around 20 or so and then in about 4-7 days you will see them at about 50 again. Do another change and then add fish the first day after the water change but do not add any ammonia that day or the day prior, only add some of your shrimp. I think you still have a healthy tank but you need to maintain a consistent bioload until you add your fish. I suggest as well that you start with less <4-5 inches of fish. Wait a few weeks for the cycle to stable and then add fish at about a rate of 2-3 inches every other week. You can also add stress zyme every 7 days to help control your cycle just before and for a few months after you add the fish. I always add some stress zyme about every other water change to a stable tank. Yes it is expensive but if the fish are healthier and live longer it is much cheaper than restocking a mbuna tank in the long run.

[Cichlid_Man]

I am a firm believer in stress zyme also.

So, you think the tank is still healthy?
I never thought of that. I never did see any clouding after I re-added the shrimp.
Just that everythng spiked and I guess that is normal.

I just checked the water and the ammonia is gone.
nitrites are down to .5 and nitrates are up to 80.

I will now do a water change and add ammonis source.

In a week do another change and no ammonia, and I can add fish if numbers are good.

You are #1

[NorthernBoy]

If your ammonia is down to 0 you can add fish sooner than that I think. Add drops or food today and monitor the tank daily for like 3 days while testing for nh3/nh4.

[Cichlid_Man]

Thanks NorthernBoy...

I'll do a test in the morning.
I did the water change and the nitrates didn't go down at all. Still 80.
Nitrites went to .25, ammonia zero.

I added drops instead of shrimp and the ammonia went up to 1.0.
That's where everything stands now.
I think I am good to go once the nitrites and ammonia are zero.

I'll just do a big water change after the number stabilize and add some fish.


I'll keep you posted

[Cichlid_Man]

If your ammonia is down to 0 you can add fish sooner than that I think. Add drops or food today and monitor the tank daily for like 3 days while testing for nh3/nh4.

OK,
Things changed overnight.

My ammonia spiked to 2 - 4.
The nitrites are at 2
Nitrates are at 80

I don't see any point in adding any more ammonia source?

Looks like it'll be cycled when the ammonia and nitrite go to zero.
Do a huge water change and go for it?

[Lady Hobbs]

Personally, I'd let what you have finish up, do your water change and add the fish. If you can't add the fish for several days, just add a few drops of ammonia daily to keep the bacteria alive.