New tank - need some help

[Angelish]

Hi,
I just set up a 29 gallon tank.
I did a lot of reading before getting started so I think I got things right.

I cycled the tank using the ammonia way.

Pretty neat.

Only thing is, right now I have a low PH.
7.0. I am thinking that is too low??
Anyway, Is a 29 gallon tank too small for a few cichlids?
I love African Cichlids but couldn't get a bigger tank.
Thanks for the help.

Christie

[Cichlid_Man]

Hi,
I just set up a 29 gallon tank.
I did a lot of reading before getting started so I think I got things right.

I cycled the tank using the ammonia way.

Pretty neat.

Only thing is, right now I have a low PH.
7.0. I am thinking that is too low??
Anyway, Is a 29 gallon tank too small for a few cichlids?
I love African Cichlids but couldn't get a bigger tank.
Thanks for the help.

Christie

Hello Christie, and welcome.
Looks like you have things going well. Not many folks get the cycling done before they add fish. Good job!
First thing.
7.0 is way too low of a PH for Cichlids.
What are you other numbers?
GH, KH, nitrates, nitrites.
You have to get the PH up to 8.0 or 8.2 for cichlids.
There are some home recipes, but for me, I rather get the products made for cichlids.
One Product I like is called Proper PH.
It automatically sets your PH to 8.2 and corrects your GH and KH.
The other thing you need is cichlid lake salt made by Seachem.

These products will have you ready in literally minutes.
After that, you can add probably 8 cichlids in there, but they should all be a ratio of 1 male/3 females.
So you can get 4 yellow labs and 4 P Kennyi, or whatever you like, but make sure they are all from the same lake. I use Malawi because the water is not as complex as the other lakes.
I hope this helps.
Oh, and keep the temp up to about 80.

[kimmers318]

Welcome and MANY kudos to you Christie! We don't see many people who research first and fishless cycle :).
Cichlid man is heading you in the right direction and from what I have picked up all sounds good. Before you worry too much about the ph test your tap water (I assume that is what you are using) so you know where you will be starting from. Everyone does use, that I have heard, some type of ph increasing substrate.....they love the high PH! I don't know if there is anything during the cycling process or that you may have added to your tank that could have lowered the PH so just to make sure if you know what it is from tap you will have that as a starting point. We haven't ever used cichlid salt or proper ph because we naturally have a high PH in our water.....and I have heard that products such as proper PH can cause problems with PH swings if you don't stay right on top of it. I was hearing this when trying to lower PH here though rather than increase it. My understanding is that it is MUCH easier to keep your PH up than down. Tom (my hubby) used a substrate made just for cichlids to keep PH buffered up.

Your tank size is a great one in my opinion for many options....I have a 29 and wish I had started with that over 5 + 10 gal. As for stocking African cichlids, there is a couple of differences of opinion....some prefer to overstock to allow the aggression to be spread around....others prefer to understock to decrease the amounts of aggression. We are somewhere in the middle, but there is a large rock structure that hubby built across the tank and quite a bit of decor which all gets rearranged regularly. There is a bit of chasing, but now that the juveniles are all growing up we haven't seen any nips. We did see some in the beginning when they were just starting to mature. Africans are like having a bunch of toddlers in your tank....they are going to bicker! Unfortunately, when you are stocking, if you are buying young'ins it is usually hard to sex them and you may not end up with the proper stocking ratio for m/f.
Good luck and let us know what you go with and how it all works out. I am sure you will have a stunning tank with happy healthy fish!

[Angelish]

Cichlidman/Kimmers.
Thanks so very much for your help!
Quick responses!

I have tested my tap water and it is 7.0. It may be that I have a well?

The other numbers I get are the ammonia and nitrite and nitrate are all zero, and the GH and KH are low. only 3 drops turn the water a different color.
The chart says to multply the drops by 17.9 and you get your numbers.

I will have to get to my fish place and buy some additives before I add fish.

As far as sexing the fish when they are young, I guess we all have to take our chances on that.

When I first set up my tank, Pet Smart had me use crushed coral as substrate, and my decor is mostly limestone. They said that should help with PH?

Anyway, thanks for the tips.
Let me get started and soon I will come back with some photos!

[Cichlid_Man]

Christie,
Kimmers gave you awesome advice.

Once you get all your water perameters in order, if you find your PH still drops after water changes, etc., you can also add extra crushed coral right in the filter in a media bag. That helped me.

You seem to have all your ducks in a row, so you'll enjoy your cichlids.

Here is a link I found helpful.

It shows all Malawi Cichlids

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[kimmers318]

With the crushed coral and limestone I am surprised your PH hasn't risen yet. How long did it take to do your fishless cycle? And don't forget that while you are deciding what fish, how you are going to raise AND stabilize the PH you need to KEEP the tank cycled. The established bacteria will not live forever if it does not have a food source and you could lose all of the hard work you have done. With the fishless cycle you probably have a good idea of how much ammonia to add to keep things going until you are ready. Just don't leave the tank alone. If you choose to do something to instantly bring your PH up so you can start stocking and not lose your nice healthy tank be cautious to watch for PH swings until you know it has come up and stayed up for awhile. If you bring it up, and it swings back down, and then you bring it up again it is very hard on the fish....maybe even harder than being in too low of a PH permanently.

[Lady Hobbs]

You got great responses from cichlidman and Kimmers and I have nothing to add except my "Welcome Aboard to AC."

Your tank really isn't all that large so you may want to stick with smaller cichlids like drawfs or possibly german rams or keyholes and kribs. Also, check on the different cichlids and see what pH they require. Some can live in a lesser pH and that may be a better way to go than constantly trying to adjust the pH.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Angelish]

With the crushed coral and limestone I am surprised your PH hasn't risen yet. How long did it take to do your fishless cycle? And don't forget that while you are deciding what fish, how you are going to raise AND stabilize the PH you need to KEEP the tank cycled. The established bacteria will not live forever if it does not have a food source and you could lose all of the hard work you have done. With the fishless cycle you probably have a good idea of how much ammonia to add to keep things going until you are ready. Just don't leave the tank alone. If you choose to do something to instantly bring your PH up so you can start stocking and not lose your nice healthy tank be cautious to watch for PH swings until you know it has come up and stayed up for awhile. If you bring it up, and it swings back down, and then you bring it up again it is very hard on the fish....maybe even harder than being in too low of a PH permanently.

I just got back from the pet place and the guy there said exactly what you said Kimmer!

For now I added a pleco in the tank to help keep up the cycle.
They are pretty tough.

I looked into the products Cichlidman was talking about and they had Cichlid lake salt to be used together with Malawi/Victoria Buffers.
They also had equilibrium which is supposed to help raise and maintain GH KH, etc.
It costs a bit but it is worth it.

I actually cycled my tank in 9 days, that's it...
I used ammonia, and I actually "fed" my tank as if there were fish in it.
I added Cycle(some say it stinks) and after that, I had almost immediate nitrites.

So, with that said, my tank has only been up for 9 days and I guess it will take time for the coral and limestone to help along.
I'll keep you posted

[kimmers318]

Sounds great! Keep an eye on your water parameters and you are heading in the right direction.

[Angelish]

Sorry I haven't posted back, but I am really enjoying my setup.

I followed that link Cichlidman sent about Malawi Cichlids and I fell in live with the bumblebee cichlids.

I have 6 of them in the 29 gallon tank. 2 males and 4 females. I added caves and fake plants and all is going great.

My water has leveled off finally.
I was using baking soda for a week, then I found the PH was staying up at about 7.9 after the water changes and going right back up to about 8 within hours. I guess it took time for the substrate to really take hold on the water?
No more baking soda!

Anyway, thanks for the help!

I'll try and get some photos soon but I don't have a digital yet.

[Lady Hobbs]

I will have my 29 gallon empty soon and also thinking of having a few small cichlids in that tank but confused as what to get. I was reading that most of the dwarf cichlids don't require too high of a pH. I was also thinking of just having rams. Now that you've mentioned the bumblebees I will also read about them since you like them so much. Since the tank is so small, I want to stay with those that are less aggressive and remain small, of course. My pH is a constant 7.6.

Glad you have things set up and it's going well for you.

[Angelish]

I will have my 29 gallon empty soon and also thinking of having a few small cichlids in that tank but confused as what to get. I was reading that most of the dwarf cichlids don't require too high of a pH. I was also thinking of just having rams. Now that you've mentioned the bumblebees I will also read about them since you like them so much. Since the tank is so small, I want to stay with those that are less aggressive and remain small, of course. My pH is a constant 7.6.

Glad you have things set up and it's going well for you.


I read from the link Cichlidman sent me that Bumblebees can grow to 5 inches.

From what he told me, you can still have 6 or so in a 29 gallon. There will be less agression with more fish. You need the caves for hiding too.

I just love the bumbles to death. They are so pronounced in color they nearly looked like salt water fish.

[kimmers318]

Wait til you see how dark a bumblebee can get, and how quickly it can go from dark to brightly colored. The bumblebee hubby has is probably my least favorite of his, but I must admit watching him change colors is interesting.

[Angelish]

Wait til you see how dark a bumblebee can get, and how quickly it can go from dark to brightly colored. The bumblebee hubby has is probably my least favorite of his, but I must admit watching him change colors is interesting.

Hi Kimmers,

ya know? I thought there was something wrong with one of the larger Bumblebees.

In the morning, when I first turn on the light to feed them, the largest bumblebee gets nearly black and runs for cover into a cave.

I guess when he feels it's safe, he comes out and gets his share of food then goes back into hiding. While he is eating, his color goes back to bright yellow with black stripes. So it's normal...It's way cool!

[Lady Hobbs]

OOPS. Didn't want cichlids that grow to that size in a 29 gallon. Back to the drawing board.