Getting Started

[joelbenben]

I've bought the set-up (29 gallon) and have been reading like crazy, learning about equipment and placement and cycling and so much more. And, of course, about compatibility and overstocking. Now I'm about ready to actually put the pieces together and select the fish. So here are two of the hundreds of questions I have before I head back to the store:

I'm looking at some combination of danios, large tetras(probably serpaes), barbs (gold or rosy), cory cats, a pleco or ottos. I'd also like some harlequin rasboras, but I've seen conflicting advice on whether they can survive this mix. Everything says to school at least 6 each of the danios, tetras and barbs, and I probably need that many cories for a tank this size, as well. But if I do that, (even without adding rasboras), I'm about 50 percent overstocked. So what should I leave out (either in quantity or variety) or replace with something else?

And once I've decided that, in which order should I introduce the fish to the tank?

[doug z]

Hey Joel!

Welcome to the forum!

First off, tell us what's going in the tank, equipment-wise (filter, heater)..

Then we'll go from there..

But some questions for you:

Which of the fish you've listed can you actually GET?

Have you cycled our tank?

Do you have a test kit?

What are the water parameters of your tap water? pH, hardness, etc.

Do you have water conditioner, to nullify the chlorine and harmful elements, like copper? (Seachem Prime, API Stress Coat).

[angelcakes]

hello and welcome joel :19:

[sandy_n]

Hello and welcome to AC. :4:

[pinsonpa]

Welcome to the AC Joelbenben.

doug z started off by asking you some good questions, so I'll let you answer those before throwing anymore at you.

You said you've done lots of reading (which is great)! If you haven't "cycled" (established) your tank yet, we should start there first (and I'd suggest doing a fishless cycle). Once you get that started, you'll have lots of time (1-4 weeks) to get advice from everyone about fish.

At this stage...you will do yourself a BIG favor by asking questions first and THEN acting.:19:

[doug z]

There are alot of articles for the beginner on this very forum!

They should answer alot of questions..

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[NickFish]

Doug has some good questions for you, and for the most part I would drop the barbs, also...mixing serpaes and danios seems risky, they will likely be pretty agressive or at least nippy towards each other. I'd pick a more peaceful fish, serpaes aren't that great for communities, but they can be used in some cichlid tanks.

Welcome to AC!

[joelbenben]

Hey Joel!

Welcome to the forum!

First off, tell us what's going in the tank, equipment-wise (filter, heater)..

Then we'll go from there..

But some questions for you:

Which of the fish you've listed can you actually GET?

Have you cycled our tank?

Do you have a test kit?

What are the water parameters of your tap water? pH, hardness, etc.

Do you have water conditioner, to nullify the chlorine and harmful elements, like copper? (Seachem Prime, API Stress Coat).


Hi Doug,

First off, thanks to you and everyone who has replied and welcomed me so far. Here are the details you asked about.

Going in or on the tank are a Marineland Penguin 200 BioWheel Power Filter, a 200w Marineland Neptune Submersible Heater, a full cover w/ one flourescent tube, fine-textured brown gravel, and artificial plants and decorations TBD.

I have not yet checked my fish wish list against what's available at the LFS I expect to use, but I have seen most of the fish at one or more of the five stores (3 LFS, 1 Petco, 1 Petsmart) in my area. (While my preference is to establish a relationship with one LFS, is there a reason to completely avoid the chain stores even if the LFS can't meet a specific need?)

I have not started cycling, or even putting everything together. And until I started poking around AC a day or two ago, I didn't even know fishless cycling existed. Is it the better choice in my situation?

No, I don't have a test kit yet (figured it was on the list for the next shopping trip), so I don't know specific pH or hardness numbers. But we get our water from Chicago, so it almost certainly will be on the hard/alkaline side.

I do have samples of AquaSafe water conditioner, enough to get through the initial fill and a few partial changes. If I should be using something else, it's no big deal to switch.

A little additional info. I'm looking for an interesting yet relatively low-maintenance tank that even I, as a rank beginner, can succeed with so it will keep my 6-year-old engaged. I'll be doing nearly all the work, but I want to involve her in any way I can. This is her promised "replacement" for the first-goldfish-in-a-bowl that died after 12 days. It's also her first up-close-and-personal look at what's involved in caring for a pet.

That's largely the reason I steered clear of angelfish (which she would love but I'm not sure I can tackle on my first try) and live bearers, which seem to be a bit more prone to disease and, since I'm not interested in the extra workload and care involved in breeding, would leave me in the uncomfortable position of explaining where the babies went.

So that's what I have and what I have and haven't done. My intention always is to ask first, then act. But that only works when I know there's something I need to ask. I'll keep reading to figure out what it is I don't know.

Thanks again.

[doug z]

Ok, Joel, sounds like the best thing you can do right now is take a step back and read those articles, and anything else you can get your hands on..

The one that I wrote (tips) has a reading list of books that I really thought helped me alot (mind you I'm into live plants)..

My blog has a more comprehensive list of books that you should be able to get from the library.

Fishless cycling is of course the beast option, and there are plenty of sticky threads and articles here devoted to that very subject..

Please do tell me how many, if any fish remain in the tank you do have..

If there's none that survived, best to start over..

Empty it, disinfect everything, as any fish you introduced may very well get the diseases that your last fish did..

I suspect they contracted those diseases as a result of the stress and physical damage that high ammonia levels result in (see "cycling with fish")..

There's so much more I could get into, but it's best if you just read, read, read for now, and let us know if you run into questions regarding said articles, etc..

Hope that helps, and we'll hear back from you soon I hope!

[MandyL]

Fishless cycling would be the only way to prevent fish deaths early on... During a fish cycle, if you are not doing daily water changes and watching the water tests very closely, with a very small fish load, you are destined to have fish dying.

Personally from your list I would do 6 cories, 6 otos (add them once the tank is very established as they are sensitive), and then choose 2 fish to have schools of. It will both look better and the fish will be happier if you have larger schools of 1-2 types rather than small schools of several species.

And bravo on the research ahead of time, and your attitudes towards doing this the right way from the start!

[pinsonpa]

That's great to hear joelbenben! I wish I had been smart enough to read and ask questions before getting started. I got advice from a lfs...and even a good store will rarely encourgage you to do a fishless cycle. Nature of the business I guess...they need to sell fish.

I didn't lose any fish when I cycled my tank but I believe this was more luck than anything, and just because I didn't kill any, I most likely put them through a stessfull and uncomfotable experience (which I don't plan to do again).

Anyway, I don't know what all you've read yet but here is a good article on how to do a fishless cycle. [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Let us know if you have any questions about doing a fishless cycle after you've read though it.

If you look at the top of the beginner freshwater (and other sections) you'll see thread titles in red called "sticky threads". Many of these (along with the free Aquarium Ebook in the left column of this page) will make for some additional quick reading.

TIP: You'll need PURE ammonia to get started with the fishless cycle and I've heard it isn't always easy to find. I'd start looking now in case it takes you a few days to track some down (try some of your local hardware stores).

[pinsonpa]

I agree with MandyL about the schooling fish. I have twins at home who turn 2 this week and they love watching our Cardinal Tetras. They love watching our amano shrimp too. At first I wished I'd gone with Cherry Shrimp for the color, but my children have made a game out of trying to find the amanos (they're transluscent). Shrimp make good tank cleaners too.:19:

[joelbenben]

Ok, Joel, sounds like the best thing you can do right now is take a step back and read those articles, and anything else you can get your hands on..

The one that I wrote (tips) has a reading list of books that I really thought helped me alot (mind you I'm into live plants)..

My blog has a more comprehensive list of books that you should be able to get from the library.

Fishless cycling is of course the beast option, and there are plenty of sticky threads and articles here devoted to that very subject..

Please do tell me how many, if any fish remain in the tank you do have..

If there's none that survived, best to start over..

Empty it, disinfect everything, as any fish you introduced may very well get the diseases that your last fish did..

I suspect they contracted those diseases as a result of the stress and physical damage that high ammonia levels result in (see "cycling with fish")..

There's so much more I could get into, but it's best if you just read, read, read for now, and let us know if you run into questions regarding said articles, etc..

Hope that helps, and we'll hear back from you soon I hope!


Doug,

There are no other fish, and no fish died in this set-up. That was a goldfish in a bowl. This a a new-in-box first-time set-up. So I am starting from scratch. I certainly will continue reading, but should I also get the master test kit, put everything together, add the gravel and the few artificial plants I already have and start the fishless cycling? Also, since I will be away for 3-4 days in about a month and the tank will be unattended, should I get some Biospira to jump start the process?

[Lady Hobbs]

I would leave the tiger barbs out. They are known fin nippers.

[doug z]

certainly will continue reading, but should I also get the master test kit, put everything together, add the gravel and the few artificial plants I already have and start the fishless cycling?

I know you want to jump right in, but trust me, if you do the reading before doing ANYTHING, you will reap the benefit..

For one, the equipment (substrate, test kit) you buy will be right for the job, and you won't have to take anything back..

Read all of those articles, and sticky threads on fishless cycling at least, and see if you can get any of these books from the library:

Freshwater Aquariums for Dummies by Maddy Hargrove

Setting up a Tropical Aquarium Week by Week
By Stuart Thraves

Setting Up a Freshwater Aquarium
By Gregory Skomal

The Complete Book of the Freshwater Aquarium
By Vincent B. Hargreaves

In the mean time look for some Goldex Ammonia. This brand I know has no additives, and will work for adding to the tank.

You should be able to find it in the hardware store..

[MandyL]

I don't see why you couldn't set the tank up and start your fishless cycle now. The equipment that you listed is fine for what you want to do with this tank. Sorry Doug, but I just don't expect all newbies to head to the library and read a ton of books. It just doesn't have to be that complicated.

It's up to you whether you want the Bio-Spira or not. It will certainly speed up your cycle. I have never used it as it is not available in Canada.

Your 3-4 days away shouldn't affect much. If it is still cycling, it can do without ammonia added for that time, and if there is fish in there they are fine to go that long without food.

[doug z]

It just doesn't have to be that complicated.

You're right, Mandy.. Jump right in!

[Augus]

Check a few local fish store near you and see what they have, cause lfs might not have what you have in mind. Find out all the lfs around your area and check them all.

[MandyL]

You're right, Mandy.. Jump right in!

Hmm okay just a little specification needed I guess... I am not saying that any joe blow should buy a tank and fill it up and do whatever he wants without research. This poster in question is obviously doing research, he knows to get a test kit and do a fishless cycle. He's reading online and asking on this forum. I just can't agree that no one should touch a tank without reading several books on the subject. One can have a very successful tank with a little research, a little advice, and the desire to give the fish what they need to be healthy and happy.

[doug z]

I guess that's where we'll have to agree to disagree..

If I had read the books that I read BEFORE I went and bought a bunch of crap at the lfs, only 80% of which I was able to take back, once I did my research and found out what I really needed , I would have saved myself alot of time, effort and money..

That's why I'll always advise other beginners not to make the same mistake..

Edit: Don't worry Joel, you've got decent equipment, so far..

The research I'd like you to really sink your teeth into is the fishless cycle.. If you do it wrong, it will take you alot longer to complete..

I'd also like you to consider live plants.. there are plenty of low-light, low maintenence plants that will work in your tank..

And fish compatibility.. Ok, I'm done.. LOL

[MandyL]

And so there's our 2 viewpoints... Anything that you get on the internet is opinion and advice so joelbenben, continue doing your research and asking questions, and choose your path. I am just far from a perfectionist and have learned from experience and the advice of fellow hobbiests, and most of the time a tank doesn't have to be perfect in every way to succeed.

[pinsonpa]

Joelbenben,

You already have a tank, a good filter (penguin bio-wheel 200) and subm. heater. If you are going shopping soon I would suggest the following specific items:

1) API Master Test Kit (it's a liquid test kit that is more accurate than "test strips" or the kind you hang inside your tank)

2) Sounds like you have some gravel. But if you don't have enough or don't like what came with the kit you can read the rest of this paragraph. Substrate (gravel) is usually selected based on what type of fish you plan to keep. I'd personally go with a mix of fine and medium sized gravel that is smooth. If you decide to get corys or other bottom dwellers that clean the gravel you don't want anything rough or sharp that can damage their little wiskers/feelers. You'll probably need about 1 lb of gravel for each gallon of water. You'll want about 1-2 inches deep of gravel in your tank (you could go less than that if you don't ever plan to add live plants). If you do want to have live plants at some point (lots of benefits to your fish and tank) you'll want to be closer to 2 inches deep.

3) doug z mentioned a specific ammonia which may not be available to you. If you can't find Goldex brand ammonia you just need to make sure it's PURE ammonia with no additives. Some have soaps/detergents in them that can cause you all kinds of trouble if they end up in your tank.

4) Dechlorination drops. Sounds like you may have some in your kit, but even if the ones you have can remove chlorine from the water, you probably won't have enough to get very far. I'd suggest "Genesis" drops. With Genesis, you just add one drop for each gallon you need to dechlorinate (add them to your water before you put it in the tank).

Once you have these things I would rinse the new tank out with hot water and clean the gravel with hot water as well (use a strainer for the gravel). Put the gravel in your tank, hang the filter over the back, suction cup the heater to the back of the tank (middle of the back wall) and low enough that it will be completely submerged. Fill your tank about half full (15 gallons) with tap water and add your dechlorinator drops (one drop per gallon but read the directions). With the tank half full you can add your plastic plants and other decorations (this will keep you from getting your arm all wet). With everything in place, fill up the rest of your tank and add more drops accordingly. Turn on your heater and your filter. If your heater is adjustable, I'd crank the heat up to about 84 degrees. You wont want your heat that high when you add fish later on, but for now the heat will help speed up the bacteria growth.

Now your tank is almost ready to begin a FISHLESS CYCLE. Take the pure ammonia that you bought and add drop for every 4 gallons. In your case (29 gallon tank) I'd add 7 drops to your full tank, wait 30 minutes and use your test kit to test the ammonia level. You want it to read about 5 ppm (parts per million). If you need to add more drops of ammonia to get it up to 5pmm keep track of how many you add. The key will be keeping your ammonia level at 5pmm consistently over several days until you get your nitrite spike. After a few days you'll want to start checking your Nitrite levels in addition to your ammonia levels. Once you get a spike in Nitrites you'll want to lower your ammonia input. Once your ammonia and Nitrites are at 0 (zero) ppm your tank will be cycled and you'll need to monitor your Nitrate levels. Nitrates aren't as harmful to fish as ammonia or Nitires but you'll still want to do a big water change (50%) before adding your first fish. You'll want to add fish slowly (add 5-6 and wait a week) just to make sure your tank/bacteria can adjust to the increased bio-load. If your parameters are still stable you can begin adding the next round of fish. You'll want to do weekly water changes once you add the fish (15-20%)

THIS WAS JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT YOU'LL BE DOING... PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE THAT I'VE LINKED BELOW ON THE FISHLESS CYCLE.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Once you've read this one and have the process started, you can read up on everything else while your tank is cycling. Especially reading up on fish so you'll know which ones will play nice together and what additional decor/structures, etc. they will need to be happy.

GOOD LUCK AND KEEP US POSTED. You've already been doing a great job with this, but don't forget to ask lots of questions before acting.:19:

[doug z]

PS..

A good way to check wether the ammonia doesn't have any additives (besides reading the label) is to shake it vigourously (cap ON, LOL) and then check and make sure it isn't fizzing or anything....

Let us know how you make out!!!

[pinsonpa]

Sorry, I was busy typing an EPIC NOVEL reply and missed the latest comments by doug and MandyL.

In my opinion, they (doug and MandyL) are both right. That being said, Mandy's comments and my big post were predicated on the fact that joelbenben already has almost everything he needs to get started.

While I normally agree with the slow approach (sounds like doug and I both wish we had when we started) joelbenben already has a kit which means he can't return parts of it. The equipment he has is good and should serve him well.

If he has the equipment and knows he wants to do a fishless cycle I don't see why he can't get started on it now and read up on everything else while he's waiting for the tank to establish.

[doug z]

He can..

After he's at least done some reading on a fishless cycle.. That's all I'm sayin'

It's not as easy as it sounds, and could take him longer if he does something like adds to much and kills all the bacteria and has to start over..

And I might be able to convince him to add live plants if he does some reading.. :)

That would speed his cycle up quite a bit..

[MandyL]

And pinsonpa comes along to sum everything up so well. :) Keep posting throughout the process and any questions you have, we are here! Good luck!

[pinsonpa]

Thanks Tink...I mean Mandy:c3: Sorry, I can't help it...when I read your posts I can't help but picture Tinkerbell trying to push each key with two hands on an enormous keyboard:hmm3grin2orange:

doug, good call again on the live plants.

Joelbenben...you mentioned your hood came with a single long fluorescent tube, right? Can you tell us how many watts it is? doug already suggested some good beginner plants that don't need a ton of light, but if you have 2 watts per gallon or more it might open up the door a bit as to which plant options you have. You don't have to have live plants but they will help your cycle, will provide better water quality and environment for your fish, and if you select the right ones they can be very easy to care for.

[joelbenben]

Hey guys,

Thanks to all of you. This is incredible.

I've read the fishless cycling piece several times, and I'm sure I'll be reading it many more, along with many of the others. And I haven't ruled out live plants. It just sounded like I'd be spending as much time learning about, selecting and tending to them as the fish, and I was trying to focus on the main objective. There also is a Catch-22 there, at least for a beginner. It sounds like the ideal situation would be for me to decide on the plants before I cycle, so they are already in the tank during the process. But to pick the right plants, I need to know which fish I'm getting.

As for the lighting question, it's an 18 watt (F18T8).

By the way, with the filter I have, is an air pump and airstone necessary/advantageous during cycling, or would I need one only for aethestic reasons?

[doug z]

But to pick the right plants, I need to know which fish I'm getting.

True, but as long as they aren't gold fish or cichlids...

By the way, with the filter I have, is an air pump and airstone necessary/advantageous during cycling, or would I need one only for aethestic reasons?

Bacteria LOVE high-O2 (aerated) water, and high temperatures..

BUT if you go with plants (and I hope you do), plants grow best when there's a good amount of C02 in the water, and if you add air, it displaces the CO2.

Bacteria also love warm temperatures (80F)..

But most plants like it around 77F..

But if you are ok with cycling without plants, go ahead and run the airstone 24/7, and run the heater at 80..

It will speed up your cycle..

But then, so will plants.. :)

You would be inclined to upgrade your light if you were to go with live plants..

[MandyL]

Yes, you lighting is far too low for most plants. If anything, you could throw a clump of Java Moss in there for its benefits of keeping the water cleaner. If it still doesn't have enough light you're only out a buck or two. ;)

[joelbenben]

So if I did want to go with live plants, I need to replace the hood and lighting I have with something that will give me at least 60 watts output?

[MandyL]

Yes, 60w flourescent would be good for low-medium light plants.

[pinsonpa]

My two cents...

You don't NEED to buy anything else if you don't want to. You can get started with what you have and you'll have a nice set-up. You can always add live plants later (if you choose) once you've become more comfortable. If not, there's no shame in having plastic plants. I've seen some really nice tanks with plastic plants in them.

That being said...If you knew you wanted live plants, it would be an advantage to add them in the beginning due to the benefits they'd bring to your "cycle". As doug and Mandy said, if you do go with live plants you'll have to upgrade to a brighter fluorescent bulb. You'd want to at least double your wattage and even then you'd need to stick to plants with low to moderate light needs (Anubias Nana, Java Fern, Crypto Lutea to name a few). Those three are all easy to care for too.

I'm my humble opinion I don't think you need an airstone. Lets see how your cycle goes first.

I'm excited for you...keep us posted:19:

[doug z]

I'm my humble opinion I don't think you need an airstone

I would tend to agree..

With the HOB filter, you're going to get adequate aeration from the filter output splashing into the top of the tank..

If you get plants, HOB filters aren't the BEST option, as that same aeration that is good for fish is bad for plants, as it let's the little CO2 that is produced from the plants and fish escape through the top of the tank..

But it's not BAD, as if you see the plants not doing so well, and it looks like it's because of low CO2 (and not a nutrient deficiency), you can always try dosing with some liquid carbon in the form of Seachem's Flourish Excel..

If you have the dough, and wanted to compare filters, I would get the Aquaclear 50 and put it beside your Penguin, as you are a leeettle under what would be considered adequate filtration..

I think you'll find the "AC" to be a quieter, all-around better filter.. Or not.. I'd be interested to hear what you thought..

I can't speak from direct experience, as I got into cannisters from the get-go.. But EVERY single aquarist I talked to when doing my research said the AC was far and away the best..

So, no pressure, but.. :)

You'd be able to do a side by side comparison, AND you'd have what you need, filtration-wise.. No down-side..

[joelbenben]

Doug (and anyone else)

I've been busy with work and family and haven't had time to get back online. I'll do a longer update later, but here's a more immediate question:

I think I'll probably wind up with two schools with some combination of tetras, rasboras or danios, plus 4-6 corys and either a pleco or some otos. I'm also still considering live plants, but it will ultimately come down to a cost decision, depending uponh how much lighting will cost. If I don't go live, I'm looking at a a few swords and java ferns.

That said, I'd like to avoid the expense of buying an aqua clear and tossing my Penguin unused. But I might be able to get my LFS to upgrade the Penguin to an Emperer 280 for just a few bucks. Would it be worth it? Any downside?

[MandyL]

Personally, I would give the Penguin a chance. It won't break down immediately, and if it does in the future you can replace it then. I'd spend the money on a light instead of an Aquaclear.

Your stocking looks good.

[doug z]

Hi again, Joel!

I'm not saying to get rid of the Penguin..

I'm saying you need a little more filtration, and it would be good if your other filter was an Aquaclear, so you could compare the two filters side by side..

I'm really hoping you go with live plants.. The lighting won't be much more expensive, and in the long run you'll find the live plants look alot better, and the help breaking down the ammonia and nitrites in your tank is worth the added expense..

[pinsonpa]

Again with my summary :c3:

It sounds like the question at hand is should he...

A) Keep the Pengiun Bio-Wheel 200 and see how things go

B) Trade out the Penguin (at his lfs) for an Emperor 280 for a few bucks more

C) Keep the Penguin and buy an additional filter (Aquaclear) so that he can do a side by side comparison.

I personally would spend about 20 minutes online reading consumer reviews of both the Penguin Bio-Wheel 200 and the Emperor 280. I've pasted a chart that allows you to compare lots of filters side by side for everything but price and customer reviews. [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

From what I've seen, the Emperor is about 8-10 dollars more than the Penguin but it moves a bit more water (280 gph as oposed to 200 gph) although they are technically both rated for up to a 50 tank. If you don't hear too many horror stories about the Emperor it might not be a bad idea to get an extra 80 gph of water movement for just an extra dollar or two in exchange at your lfs. I have a Penguin Bio-Wheel 125 on my 10 gallon (which I bought used) and I've had no trouble with it at all (nor did the previous owner). I have heard of others who've had trouble with the wheel sticking, etc. but I'm sure you'll hear a few good things and bad things about both.

Both option A and option B would mean little or no extra expense which may free up some cash to upgrade your lighting (should you choose to do so). Does anyone know if he can just upgrade to a better fluorescent tube for the hood he has or will he for sure have to buy a new hood that has spots for two bulbs in it?

[joelbenben]

OK, Here's the update (This takes forever when I can only squeeze in 45 minutes or an hour a few nights a week.)...

I'm keeping the Penguin 200 and decided to go with live plants. I filled the tank (about 2 inches shy of the top), added conditioner, washed and added the gravel, turned on the filter, set the heater for 80, bought a 2 x 24w fixture, added rocks, and planted an anubias (forget which type) and tied two java ferns to the rocks. This weekend, I'll probably add 3-4 more low-light plants, possibly including 1-2 floaters, plus a decoration of my 6-year-old's choosing.

So by Sunday night, I think I'm ready to start fishless cycling. I've got the ammonia ... no additives ... and the master test kit. I'll raise the heat 3-4 degrees, and keep the light on 8-10 hours a day.

Am I really good to go? Or have I forgotten something?

[doug z]

Sounds good!

Looking forward to the pics!

[pinsonpa]

Just add the ammonia (as per the instructions in the "Fishless Cycle" article) and use your water test kit to check your ammonia levels regularly. Keep us posted.

[joelbenben]

OK, the tank is cycling away and I’m researching fish to go in it. Here’s my current thinking, always subject to change:

8-12 Harlequin Rasboras, 6 Cories, 8-12 Rummynose Tetras, 4 Otos OR 1 bristlenose, 1 pearl gourami. I’d add them to the tank in that order, probably no more than 4-6 at a time. I’ll also need 1 or 2 floating plants (in addition to what I already have, see below) and 1-2 taller plants (only the onion goes above mid-tank now). The tank also has a large piece of driftwood and a 6" tiki hut decoration that my daughter picked because "it has lots of hiding places."

Any thoughts, observations, suggestions or warnings?

[MandyL]

It seems like a heavy stocking list to me... Personally I would either do 12 of the rasboras OR the rummynoses, or 6 of each.

[doug z]

Do you have any pics? :)

I would second Mandy.. Get 12 of EITHER the rummies OR the rasboras.

Vals make for good background plants.. Val. americana, spiralis..

What kind of corys are you going to get?

Good floating plants: Amazon Frogbit, Water Lettuce..

[joelbenben]

I'd prefer one larger school of 12 to two small ones, and I think (with almost no experience) that the rummys would be more interesting in this tank. But if I do rummys, cories, ottos/bristlenose and a pearl gourami, which one do I introduce first?

Also, any thoughts regarding ottos vs bristlenose? Or is it purely a matter of personal preference?

Don't know which cories yet. Of the ones I've seen, the elegants are probably my choice. But I haven't seen any bronze, and so far I've focused more on the mid to upper level fish. Glad to have suggestions.

[MandyL]

Personally I would do cories, then rummys, then otos/BN, then gourami. I really think that in this tank, it's personal preference between otos and BNs. Generally I will put otos in a tank with small fish, and BN in a tank with larger fish (planning on them for the angels in the 65gal).

[doug z]

You will get more entertainment out of the otos..

The BN's are of course more sedentary..

Both will do a good job cleaning..

The otos will do better cleaning delicate plant leaves..