Why do they keep dying :( :( :( :(

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I can't take it anymore. I want to buy some nicer fish like discus or some cichlids but don't want to waste money when my regular tetras don't even make it...

110g up for about 3 months now with plants and CO2. 2 HOB filters. 1yoyo, 20-30 neons, 5 blood fins.
All tests come back negative for me...temp at 79, pH is high at 7.8 but very constant.

Lost a TON of tiny neons not long after i get them so i stopped with those. Lose 1 or 2 large neons when i get 10 or so from the LFS or petsmart.

Now today i lost 3 for no reason...test water and everything was fine. I added 10 neons Wednesday of last week and today was Sunday when they were dying/dead(thats if the new ones are the dying ones). swimming in a spiral or already dead.

Did a water change 3 days ago and used conditioner...

I have a yoyo but have NEVER seen him go after anything and feed him well. Feed them all well...
They all look okay when dead(don't notice anything out of the ordinary)

Even my 5 bloodfin tetra's are acting weird(swimming fast and the usual) i wouldn't be surprised if they are dead by tomorrow :(
SO WHY ARE THEY DYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jbeining75]

It is common to lose neons in the transfer process. Hobbyist jokingly say buy 10 to get 1. Check the CO2 level and make sure with running the booster it is not moving your pH around. Unstable tetra will not take the constant pH swings CO2 boosters sometimes cause.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

It is common to lose neons in the transfer process. Hobbyist jokingly say buy 10 to get 1. Check the CO2 level and make sure with running the booster it is not moving your pH around. Unstable tetra will not take the constant pH swings CO2 boosters sometimes cause.


but dying 4 days after being in the tank? i guess usually i lose at least 1 or 2 the day after adding them but like you said i usually chalk that up to transferring problems...

I always try to check my CO2 levels but can never get a good reading. I did the test pH once then again after an hour or two of sitting...same reading for me.

I am running like 2 bubbles per second though.

[cocoa_pleco]

yep, they can die after being in the tank for 4 days, people say if you want to have 10 neons in your tank, get 30 because probably only 10 will make the transfer

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

What is your kH like PV? Personally, I wouldn't add any more characins to that tank for now. As morbid as this may sound, you probably should wait until the last of your tetras dies off or at least proves that it is going to live. If you want something hardier than Neons, go for Black Neons. They are a bit larger and definitely hardier than Neons.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

So how long after i add them to the tank would you say they died from something else instead of transferring? a week?

I guess once i get them established i hopefully won't lose anymore...because that would be sweet.

It's just getting a tank to look stocked with neons wasn't the best idea i guess...

Whats a REALLY hardy tetra that looks cool? i might go back to glow light tetras...

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I don't have a KH test kit but the two times i brought my water to the LFS to have tested they said the KH was 11 not long after getting the tank and a few weeks ago it was 8

[doug z]

CO2 shouldn't be causing pH fluctuations..

Not if it's regulated by a controller..

Is it, Vette?

Might be time to get one, if you don't have one, if pH fluctuations are indeed what's causing this..

But there are alot of factors to consider..

Are the tetras in the lfs already starved and stressed?

Are you drip acclimatizing them?

You're shooting yourself in the foot injecting CO2 and having HOB filters..

The surface agitation caused by the outflow of water into the top of your tank is letting all the CO2 you're pumping in to be disbursed into the atmosphere..

How can your pH still be so high if you are adding CO2, I wonder?

C02 reduces pH, and kH..

Unless all or most of the C02 you're injecting is going straight out the top of your tank via the aeration you have going on with the HOB's..

Dunno..

Thought, anyone?

[PUNISHER VETTE]

water levels are high enough to not be affected by the "waterfall" of the HOB's. I lowed the water today thinking i didn't have enough O2 getting to the fish though. Usually though the water falls a few inches and doesn't disturb the water surface much.

No clue why my pH is so high still...

I don't have a controller for the CO2 but as far as i'm concerned haven't noticed a difference in the pH in a LONG time.

I'll test it tomorrow morning to see if after the CO2 is off all night if it has changed any. I've only checked it during the day with the lights/co2 on so maybe it changes at night and i don't ever see the change...stressing the fish.

It's really only been tetras but i did notice one of my bloodfins swimming funny today so i don't think it's only the neons. Maybe he is just going crazy seeing bodies floating in his area... :( (i do net them out so though)

I don't "drip" accumulate them but since my LFS is 4 blocks from me they said my water is exactly like theirs. I do however add a little water every 20min or so to the bag they're in for about an hour. Just so it isn't one huge shock.

[cocoa_pleco]

serpae tetras are pretty good, i used to have a school of 12 in a 55g planted and i had all of them for a few years

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

CO2 shouldn't be causing pH fluctuations..

Not if it's regulated by a controller..

This is not the case at all. A controller does not stop the pH from flucuating, it simply stops it from going below a certain point. A controller is only necessary if you have very very soft water and are at the risk of wild pH swings. The CO2 is not likely to blame here since it is not going to effect the pH that much if the KH is 8. I ran CO2 at a higher rate then that on my 125 and I never lost a neon, lemon, or rummynose tetra in it at all.

I think the issue is more with the stock that has been purchased. As I mentioned before, I'd wait to see if the bloodfins are going to make it and then get some more tetras, if they don't seem to be making it then wait till they are all gone. It seems the only thing effected is the characins so that's why I'd wait on adding them.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

yeah i'll wait a few weeks and see what happens. First things first is if one of the blood fins dies tonight then something HAS to be wrong. They have been in the tank a while now.

Maybe i'm just paranoid and he's really fine and i hope thats the case.

I'd really like to get rummy nose tetras but i've heard they are also hard to keep...

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Rummynose tetras are a great addition to a tank. They are not hard to keep at all. I love my Rummynoses. They are about the best benchmarks for water quality that you will find. If the water quality is good then their noses will be bright red, but as water quality goes down, so does the brilliance of their noses.

[toddnbecka]

I never did have any luck with neons, they'd die off one or two at a time until they were gone. IME they're about as delicate as Apisto's, which is one reason I prefer hardier fish. Lemons, serpae, black neons, silver tips, no real issues with any of them. Black tetras are really tough (relatively speaking), but I never liked those much.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Rummynose tetras are a great addition to a tank. They are not hard to keep at all. I love my Rummynoses. They are about the best benchmarks for water quality that you will find. If the water quality is good then their noses will be bright red, but as water quality goes down, so does the brilliance of their noses.


i figured so as i've only heard that from the LFS and it just so happens most of the noses on their fish aren't very red....even though they are a pretty well known fish store...

[doug z]

This is not the case at all. A controller does not stop the pH from flucuating

?

Why wouldn't it?

The CO2 brings the pH to the set-point you set it at, and then turns the CO2 on or off, depending on where the pH goes..

Please elaborate on why the pH would go up beyond what the controller would be able to handle..

[PUNISHER VETTE]

?

Why wouldn't it?

The CO2 brings the pH to the set-point you set it at, and then turns the CO2 on or off, depending on where the pH goes..

Please elaborate on why the pH would go up beyond what the controller would be able to handle..

I think since my KH is so high the CO2 shouldn't affect the pH that much...or at least thats what i'm thinking of.

If your pH fluctuates a lot because of a low KH then you might want the controller to turn off the CO2 when the pH gets too low..

[doug z]

Hmmm..

Didn't consider the kH aspect..

Doesn't C02 affect hardness, too, though?

What if you softened your water with peat moss or something?

Wouldn't driftwood soften your water, too?

[fins_n_fur]

Strange (and a bummer) that you are having issues--not a terrific sign that the LFS rummy noses noses aren't so red. Or they are just unlucky in getting in some overstressed, sick fish. Once you get things figured out, you could think of adding rummy noses or black or red phantom tetras--they are pretty cool fish. Is there another LFS to go check out? Keep us posted and good luck!

[pinsonpa]

If you find out that it's the transfer that's killing your Neons you could try Cardinals. They can get up to 2" long, they can live up to 6 years and they look even better than Neons (IMO).

I've heard conflicting things about Cardinals but I love mine. Some say they are heartier than Neons and some say they aren't. I put 6 in my 10 gallon and actually "cycled" my tank with them (before I was enlightened here in the AC):c3: . Anyway, they all made the transition fine and all survived what turned out to be a pretty quick "cycle".

Good luck Punisher V!

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I just went out and checked on the tank. All of the blood fins where swimming near the surface even with the lights off.

I'm doing a 50% water change as i think something is definitely wrong. The coloring on my yoyo is almost non existent on his under belly.

[digital3]

...C02 reduces pH, and kH..


Hmmm..

Didn't consider the kH aspect..

Doesn't C02 affect hardness, too, though?


Co2 doesn't affect the KH or GH. Plus PH swings from Co2 are not detrimental to fish.

When there are natural swings in PH (that aren't caused by Co2), it's the drastic changes in the hardness and total dissolved solids that are associated with a natural PH swing which is detrimental to fish. Co2 only affects the PH, not those other two factors.

I don't think the Co2 is the source of your fish problem. If your fish are near the top maybe you have a low O2 problem. How is the current in your tank? Do you turn off your Co2 and run an airstone at night? Also, when you're running Co2 it's a good idea to have good water circulation in your tank. This keeps the tank oxygenated and helps to move your Co2 around the tank. Most people think that when they run into problems (like fish near the surface), the culprit is the Co2. Many times it's an O2 problem. If you are only using HOB filters, I'm thinking you might not have too much current going on in your tank.

I had this problem when I first set up my Co2 system (I lost an Angel). I found that running the jet instead of the spraybar from my filter and running an airstone at night and into the early morning (when O2 levels are lowest) solved those problems for me.

That in combination with some hardier fish might help with some problems. Hope that helps, that's all I could think of.

[fins_n_fur]

Great hypothesis, Digital3! I'm beginning to think the same thing, low levels of O2 is a possibility.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

yeah i'll be getting a canister filter once summer gets here. I have the two HOB filters and the powerhead running the CO2 system and current isn't great but i see movement everywhere...just slower in some spots then others.

the powerhead has a DIY spray bar i made of PVC and drilled holes in it so it doesn't have too much current. I could try plugging the end so more gets jetted out the holes creating more current.

I've done all i could do tonight. Hopefully with the fresh water change whatever was hurting them is somewhat okay for tonight. If not i'll be doing clean up tomorrow.. :(

[Adrian]

Sorry to hear your loss with the neons Vette. That can be a major bummer. I think part of the problem lies in the stock itself, and another in the O2 area. If you want a fish similar to the neon, but hardier, I would get the cardinal tetra. Very similar in color, and can tolerate more things than a neon could. They are a very adaptable species, and can tolerate a wide range of ph. I have cardinals in my tank, and don't lose any to ph descrepencies. As stated in an earlier post, they are a strong fish. They may be a bit pricey, but if you are throwing away money with dying neons, perhaps they may be a better bet for you.

[Lady Hobbs]

I'm wondering if your CO2 is what's causing this? It killed my fish when I had the CO2 injector too near the filter one time and another time when I had it too near the bubbler that I turned on at night. I found out it was draining too much CO2 into the tank at night. It needs to be away from any water movement or pulls too much CO2 out.

What concentration are you using in your CO2. Sugar versus yeast? You are using DIY, right?

You also mentioned having your water levels high. This cuts down on the oxygen they get. Swimming near the surface, to me, is a sign of being starved for oxygen.

[kitten3326]

I love neons, but they are a pain, I buy 10 and lose 10, I recently purchased 25 and I have 15 out of that batch. But I have recently changed to black neons and harquelins because they don't die as easily, but you really can't base your losses when your dealing with neons. I find that serpae tetras and harquelins add some beautiful color to your tank and in nice large shoals are beautiful. I hope you don't have anymore losses and better luck with your tank.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Well it looks like i feared it would. Lots of bodies everywhere :(

Even my yoyo loach died.
a few neons and one or two blood fins are left.

I just wish i knew whats going on as nothing seems to be going right.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

total dead count so far.

3 neons from yesterday
6 neons over night
3 blood fins over night
1 yoyo loach(2.5in long)

on more neon not looking so good
all the rest are hiding at the bottom of the tank not moving :(

:help:

[fins_n_fur]

OMG Not good at all. I'm really sorry to hear this. I wish I could do or say something that would help.

Maybe you should test the oxygen levels in your tank to start ruling out the root causes? Any chance of putting in in air stone just in case so the others don't go?

[xoolooxunny]

this is pretty scary sounding vette! im real sorry to hear about your losses/problems. how often do you water change? Do your plants have strong growth patterns? what kind of fertilizers do you use for the plants and how do you dose them?

btw, i would drop the temp a couple degrees. 76 should do, lower temps hold more saturated oxygen, and the plants thrive in the mid 70 degree range as well.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I turned the CO2 off till i can figure out whats going on.
I'll lower the temp when i get home. Plant growth is strong...very strong
O2 when i've lowered the water has to be high. the waterfall affect really creates a lot of bubbles throughout the tank.

I've only dosed Seachem Flurish 2 times a week(2 cap fulls)
and the last water change was the first time i added Seachem Iron(2 cap fulls) as directed

I'm thinking if anything the seachem iron could be the problem but i followed all the directions. Even have an iron kit that showed no levels before, and after adding the iron. I figured it'd take a week or two to get the levels stably up to what they should be.

I'll be taking my water to the LFS today to see what they can do. Should i take the fish as well? can they test them for anything?

[xoolooxunny]

unfortunately the only place i would think you could get the fish tested would be the vet hospital, and thats simply not worth it imo. The plants should be creating more than enough oxygen for those fish, thats what has me confused. higher co2 levels wouldnt bother the fish that much. Turning off the co2 is not going to add more oxygen to your tank, the levels of o2 and c02 are not offsetting to each other. you can have a tank with 100% o2 saturation and still have 30ppm co2 in the water. I would suggest testing for copper, you're not adding salt are you? Are you doing 50% wc every week?

[digital3]

Hmmm... My tank has several plants and I was still having O2 issues.

Furthermore, O2 levels do drop to their lowest levels early in the morning. In fact, when photosynthesis is done at night plants switch from using Co2 to using O2. So without adequate circulation or water surface disturbance your O2 levels can get low come morning.

You just need to make sure that if you do break the surface for oxygenation, it is done at night so you don't lose valuable Co2 during the day. The plants will take care of generating the O2 during that time.

[LosC]

I think it's time to stay away from them. Have you kept Rasboras?

[PUNISHER VETTE]

yeah i do a 50% water change per week. Did another one last night which would definitely have helped to oxygenate the water. So unless it was too late by then i have no clue whats going on.

The Seachem Iron hopefully didn't have anything to do with it.
CO2 has been constant for a month or two now with not much of a problem..
the only variable that really changed was the iron introduced.

[Lady Hobbs]

total dead count so far.

3 neons from yesterday
6 neons over night
3 blood fins over night
1 yoyo loach(2.5in long)

on more neon not looking so good
all the rest are hiding at the bottom of the tank not moving :(

:help:

Remember a week or so ago I was writing of my fish dying, too. I ended up suspecting the iron. Perhaps I was adding more than my plants were using but I have had no deaths since I stopped using it.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Okay. Took the fish to the LFS and he looked at them under the microscope and didn't see anything wrong. Because they were so small he couldn't do an O2 test on their gills. He said something about no protozoa activity but i don't know if thats good or bad...most likely good since he didn't see anything wrong.

He gave me a gallon jug, asked me to fill it up with the tap water i use and the Zip drops(dechlorinater) to see it thats the case.
And a zip lock bag with zero air in it and get a sample of water completely underwater so he can do a proper O2 test.

So i'm guessing he suspects O2 as a possible problem.

Now for the Zip drops. It says 1-9 drops but since i'm doing 50 gallon changes i just squirt a little in...is this stuff in excess a horrible thing? b/c it might have been the culprit. My thinking with the drops was always if i use too little it won't dechlorinate the water enough but too much can't be that bad of a thing....but maybe it IS bad and thats what killed the fish..

[dustinpedley]

that stinks vette

i stopped trying to keep neons, they never worked for me. i hope you get the problem figured out.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Just got off the phone with the guy. He said the water didn't contain any chlorine and that the Zip drops aren't harmful so to be on the safe side I should be putting more in then not enough.

He said my oxygen levels were at the lowest end of being safe. But this was almost a half day after the fish died. So at night they were probably dropping off into the harmful period.

I've got my water level lower right now to create more of a waterfall affect disturbing the water. This weekend i'll be getting an air pump to run at night.

I'll give it 2 weeks and see if anything else goes wrong/dies and go from there.

[smaug]

I am replying to this post knowing there are 38 other posts in front of mine and I read not a 1 of them,no disrespect intended.I have replied to problems like this in the past with the same thing.7.8 is very high to keep tetras and other soft water fish.I am aware that it can be done,but not always.Tetras,especially neons will always do better and live better in a lower ph such as 6.8 on down to5.5.Hardness is a factor as well and they will do much better if it is in 10ppm or less,add high ph to high gh and it makes things even worse.I am certain its a ph factor killing your neons.

[digital3]

Well it does indeed sound like an O2 issue. Just get that airstone going at night and don't forget to run it into the early morning, cuz as I said before, that's when O2 levels are at their lowest.

[xoolooxunny]

I cant believe I didnt see the part about your ph being 7.8! Only by very very slowly drip acclimating the tetras will you have a small chance of keeping them alive at that ph. Thanks for pointing that out smaug! I couldnt keep mine alive at 7.4, and now that im down to 6.8, sometimes I get one that survives. I think I'm around 4-5 survivors out of the 30 or so that ive bought!

[travie]

Well it does indeed sound like an O2 issue. Just get that airstone going at night and don't forget to run it into the early morning, cuz as I said before, that's when O2 levels are at their lowest.

I just quickly glances through all the posts. I didn't see a mention of running an airstone at night with my quick glance. Are you running one at night when the lights are off?

[xoolooxunny]

I just quickly glances through all the posts. I didn't see a mention of running an airstone at night with my quick glance. Are you running one at night when the lights are off?

no not now he doesnt, but i think he is going to get one if im not mistaken . . .

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Air pump in place... well i guess it's a powerhead with a tube to the surface sucking air down. It's on a timer for tonight.

I'm trying to find a way to have the air pump that i'll be getting this weekend to pump into my reactor which should also help diffuse it into the water right?

[doug z]

Hopefully it works out for you, man..

Don't give up on tetras! :)

[travie]

I would say not having an air pump/airstone running at night was the cause to your neon deaths.

[digital3]

Air pump in place... well i guess it's a powerhead with a tube to the surface sucking air down. It's on a timer for tonight.

I'm trying to find a way to have the air pump that i'll be getting this weekend to pump into my reactor which should also help diffuse it into the water right?

You'll have better luck by just running it in your tank. The bubbles themselves are not going primarily give you your oxygenation, it will be the bubbles breaking the water surface of your tank.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

You'll have better luck by just running it in your tank. The bubbles themselves are not going primarily give you your oxygenation, it will be the bubbles breaking the water surface of your tank.


so you don't think the reactor will do the same thing it does with CO2 but with O2 instead?

Diffusing air into the water until it comes out the other end fully oxygenated right?

[digital3]

so you don't think the reactor will do the same thing it does with CO2 but with O2 instead?

Diffusing air into the water until it comes out the other end fully oxygenated right?

You know, it might just work. I totally brain f@rted on the fact that the o2 would desolve in the water. There's only two things I would consider.

1-unlike c02 which is only injecting bubbles at a couple or so a second. I think you'll be sending more o2 bubbles into your reactor at a higher rate. Don't you think you might run into some back pressure problems due to a big oxygen bubble that will end up built up inside there?

2-I'm just thinking it would be easier to drop an airstone into your tank instead of plumbing a whole new line into your reactor.

I don't know, I'm thinking you should research this more. I'm curious if it would work and if anyone else has done it.

[smaug]

Realistically what oxygenates water is the turn over of the water column as its only the contact with the waters surface that introduces oxygen to the water.Bubbler's do it mostly by the water movement it creates.I do not think that using a reactor would work with o2 at all like it works with co2,I do not use co2 so I am going on my thoughts and reading about this in other forums as well as this one.I have been told that many diffusers do not even do a good job of imparting all the co2,I can only think that it would be no better with co2.I am also wondering why you are not getting better oxygenation from your plants,especially if you are using co2.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Using a reactor really won't do much for you O2 levels. At any given temperature, salinity, and pressure, there is a maximum amount of O2 that can be absorbed into the water(there are a few other things that effect it). Since you can't really change the atmospheric pressure in your tank that elliminates that possibility. You can change the temperature and the salinity though. An increase in either of these 2 variables will decrease the amount of O2 your water can absorb. So if you have plants in your tank that are photosynthesizing well, they are putting the O2 back into the water for you during the day at the same time using some of it (not much though) and then at night they are using the O2 and not the CO2. When you see a plant that is pearling, that generally means that you water has the maximum amount of O2 disolved in it and can't handle anymore, since the plants don't stop producing O2 the bubbles form. Pumping air into the water won't really do you any good.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I guess i still don't get it. Air is what? 20% oxygen. So if i'm running it through a diffuser it should then diffuse the air into the water and any excess will come out as bubbles anyway which is what it would do in the first place.

But the air that is absorbed/diffused into the water is now water with extra oxygen right? Therefore the fish will breath it in and will now have more oxygen.

I don't see how this is any different then the CO2. Instead of diffusing it for the plants i'll be diffusing oxygen for the fish....

[smaug]

I guess i still don't get it. Air is what? 20% oxygen. So if I'm running it through a diffuser it should then diffuse the air into the water and any excess will come out as bubbles anyway which is what it would do in the first place.

But the air that is absorbed/diffused into the water is now water with extra oxygen right? Therefore the fish will breath it in and will now have more oxygen.

I don't see how this is any different then the CO2. Instead of diffusing it for the plants I'll be diffusing oxygen for the fish....
I am no scientist,I think what the difference is might be that 02 does not dissolve as readily into water as co2,ilmgb states some facts in the last post explaining this.I have always been informed that o2 only enters water through surface contact with the atmosphere and not really at all through air stones.air stones help only because they increase the turn over of the water column through agitation and breaking the surface tension of the water.The same thing can be accomplished by increasing the flow of your filter or by directing the outlet to the surface.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I am no scientist,I think what the difference is might be that 02 does not dissolve as readily into water as co2,ilmgb states some facts in the last post explaining this.I have always been informed that o2 only enters water through surface contact with the atmosphere and not really at all through air stones.air stones help only because they increase the turn over of the water column through agitation and breaking the surface tension of the water.The same thing can be accomplished by increasing the flow of your filter or by directing the outlet to the surface.

But those are air stones just hooked up creating bubbles whereby a tiny fraction is absorbed and the rest causes surface movement helping to add more O2. This would be injected into a cylinder where it would then be completely diffused or come out as bubbles anyway if it wasn't diffused. If air is going in and nothing but water is coming out then there has to be more oxygen in the water.

Since have CO2 i really don't want surface movement as it'll also release what i want to keep as well as add some oxygen.

I guess the only way for me to believe that this wouldn't work is to have the O2 tested two times to see what the difference is.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

O2 doesn't absorb like CO2 does. Like I said, there is a maximum amount of O2 that can be in your water with any give temp. If you have that max amount then it doesn't how much O2 you try to inject you can't do it. I'm not entirely sure of the science of it but I do know that O2 will not disolve into water like CO2 does.

[smaug]

I am thinking you will end up with the result digital 3 mentioned [air in diffuser]What kind of diffuser do you have,is it the doc fosters canister type with balls in it?

[PUNISHER VETTE]

It's the rex grigg diffuser. (about 2 feet tall)

I can see that if my water is already holding the max amount of oxygen it won't absorb anymore but the thing is my water killed fish by not having enough so...

And i'm not even sure it would work yet but what i'm thinking is whatever air that isn't diffused will just be pushed though the system and come out the end like bubbles. Or like Digital said i could have a pressure issue...and the entire thing blows hoses.

I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I can always go to the normal bubbler after i find out it doesn't work though the diffuser.

And why is it called a reactor anyway? wouldn't diffuser be the better word?

[smaug]

Im not convinced you lost fish because of low oxygen,you said you were on the low side of allowable.That alone would not kill any but the sickest fish.I had low o2 for months during the night on my planted till I figured it out.I never lost a fish to it.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Knowing how the Grigg diffuser works, you will have a problem with some air getting trapped. What will happen is that eventually your diffuser will become air locked and you will lose the head pressure on your canister filter.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Knowing how the Grigg diffuser works, you will have a problem with some air getting trapped. What will happen is that eventually your diffuser will become air locked and you will lose the head pressure on your canister filter.


I have a powerhead running it all but i get what your saying. I have to let all the air out of it when i do water changes before i start the pump up again or it doesn't pump water. It would probably do the same with injecting oxygen but we'll see.

[Nautilus291]

This thread is teaching me alot, but im sorry your having all of these problems vette

[PUNISHER VETTE]

Well here it is. You can see the power head running the reactor and the middle one which is for now shooting out tons of bubbles at night.

Not very many fish though... :scry: :ssad:
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/tparkhi2/New%20Big%20Fish%20Tank/IMG_1000.jpg
Total that i have left
9 neons
3 boodfins
1 zebra danio

[smaug]

I hope this works out for you,a big group of neons would look great in there.

[PUNISHER VETTE]

I hope this works out for you,a big group of neons would look great in there.

They did... but i just don't know if i can keep it up... never had good luck with them and this last one was a huge hit to my fish keeping ego...
RIP neons.. 4/20/08
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e289/tparkhi2/New%20Big%20Fish%20Tank/IMG_0909.jpg

[digital3]

Yeah, even though I'm pretty sure O2 did have a hand in this. I understand what Smaug is saying as well in that you just also need to watch what type of fish you stock your tank with. I've NEVER had luck with Neons, and I've heard they can be pretty sensitive.

It's like I said previously. Plants will use the O2 at night to Photosynthesize so if you don't have a good source set up to oxygenate your water at night you're going to run into problems come morning. I'm sure that the Neons may have been stressed on top of that due to being in water parameters (ie. higher PH) that wasn't ideal for them.

I'm still not sure about the O2 through the reactor idea. I'm kind of now siding with GB on the issue, especially since I've never seen or heard of that done before.

But hey, part of this hobby is trying things out. So at least in the end you can say you tried it! Good luck!

[MelonMan]

i bought 10 neons and they all had survived for months but all of a sudden one died for no reason. it wasnt even ill. i think i just got a good batch and they arent that hardy at all

[LosC]

Yeah, even though I'm pretty sure O2 did have a hand in this. I understand what Smaug is saying as well in that you just also need to watch what type of fish you stock your tank with. I've NEVER had luck with Neons, and I've heard they can be pretty sensitive.

It's like I said previously. Plants will use the O2 at night to Photosynthesize so if you don't have a good source set up to oxygenate your water at night you're going to run into problems come morning. I'm sure that the Neons may have been stressed on top of that due to being in water parameters (ie. higher PH) that wasn't ideal for them.

I'm still not sure about the O2 through the reactor idea. I'm kind of now siding with GB on the issue, especially since I've never seen or heard of that done before.

But hey, part of this hobby is trying things out. So at least in the end you can say you tried it! Good luck!

This sounds kind of scary. Plants will drain the oxygen out of the tank?

[digital3]

This sounds kind of scary. Plants will drain the oxygen out of the tank?

Low O2 levels become a concern if your tank does not have enough circulation and you have "dead zones;" areas where the water is still and not in movement or you don't have enough surface movement. This is usually more of a problem with bigger tanks (I'd say 40g or more) that have more volume and more areas where this might occur. Punisher has a nice and big 110g so he definitely falls in this category.

This is further amplified when you use pressurized Co2 and have a heavy plant load, once again like Punisher does. If you have a smaller tank and a light plant load it shouldn't be too much of a concern.

So essentially, it's not the plants that are the problem. It's the above issues that are the problem. The plants will only further amplify the issue, but they are not the cause. This is why you don't normally hear about these issues. Because most Aquarists (like yourself :c3: ), don't usually have large tanks with pressurized Co2 and a heavy plant load.

The best thing to do to see if you have this problem is check your fish in the morning. If they are all near the surface of your tank, you might have an issue. If they act normal, I wouldn't worry about it.