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Gemini
04-17-2008, 06:33 AM
I just read in one of the other forums and didn't want to thread jack - but someone was asking about how good the Wardley Shrimp Pellets are and someone replied they are really bad.
The LFS told me that Wardley was the best shrimp pellets to feed my clown loaches. I'm a bit worried now!!
I have Wardley Shrimp Pellets and a Tropical Flake (don't remember the brand and I'm at work :(). Are these ok? None of the LFS I have been to stock NLS or Hikari, or if they do it's hidden and not in the food section!
Does anyone know what else is available in Aust that I should feed?
Thank you for your help!

jbeining75
04-17-2008, 11:02 AM
Wardley is not a top product. Hikari makes Shrimp pellets and krill that are much better quality.

Fishguy2727
04-17-2008, 12:56 PM
Check online for NLS, that would be the best thing.

Lady Hobbs
04-17-2008, 01:04 PM
Wardleys been around for a long time and fed many a fish but in my book is not a top brand.

Why buy Banquet when you can buy Stoffers? :)

RainMan
04-17-2008, 01:52 PM
I have used the shrimp pellets.. but, they had a weird smell. I stopped using them because of that. But, never had any problems with them.

BTW, they sink like a brick.

cocoa_pleco
04-17-2008, 02:15 PM
wardley is kinda meh, not the best. hikaris far better

angelcakes
04-17-2008, 02:57 PM
go hikari........:19:

RainMan
04-17-2008, 02:59 PM
I agree with everyone... you can't go wrong with Hikari.

Incredulous_Ed
04-17-2008, 03:51 PM
Eh, wardley pretty much sucks. I have their shrim pellets and all they did was cloud the water. Much, much better for your fish is New Life Spectrum. I hear good things about the H2O stable wafer.

digital3
04-17-2008, 04:29 PM
Yeah I'm not really a fan of Wardley. My Bolivian Rams never liked their "cichlid mini pellets" and they tend to cloud the water up. They are all over the NLS though and my bottom feeders love the Hikari sinking pellets.

siymdapolio
04-17-2008, 04:53 PM
MY Bristlenose loves the wadley shrimp pellets but i agree i hate using them its not very good compared to the hikari wafers that i have recently bought for him... He loves them but doesnt eat alot of it but then the other fish come ang get it and i have to be carefull they would love to explode with hikari wafers lol

Fishguy2727
04-17-2008, 08:41 PM
Do not give clown loaches algae wafers, they are not suckerfish. Even my suckers (gold nugget, common plecos, ottos, rubberlip plecos, etc.) do not get wafers, just the regular NLS pellets.

sandy_n
04-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Do not give clown loaches algae wafers, they are not suckerfish. Even my suckers (gold nugget, common plecos, ottos, rubberlip plecos, etc.) do not get wafers, just the regular NLS pellets.

Is there a reason that you don't give algae wafers to your plecos?

xoolooxunny
04-17-2008, 09:38 PM
I've switched to hikari from wardley a long time ago, and the fish really do like it better.

Drumachine09
04-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Even my suckers do not get wafers, just the regular NLS pellets.



Stop the presses!

Fishguy2727
04-17-2008, 11:09 PM
I don't feed them wafers because I tried them and didn't see a difference between them and the pellets, so I just feed the pellets that all of my other fish get. Note I did not say don't feed them, just that I don't. Clown loaches should be getting regular sinking pellets anyways, which is the species in question here.

smaug
04-17-2008, 11:11 PM
I feed wardleys all the time,I also feed many of the other so called top brands.Dont let the food snobs scare ya,wardleys is quite all right.I got a whole tank full of bottom feeders who never notice any difference at all.No offense meant to the food snobs :hmm3grin2orange:

Gemini
04-17-2008, 11:15 PM
Thank you all for your help! I'll have to go online and see if they send Hikari or NLS to Australia. Surely I'm not the only person in Aus looking for it!! My clown loaches and my pepper corys all love the shrimp pellets but I don't feed myself the worst quality so I don't think it's fair to do it to my fish who can't shop for themself. I'll finish off the Wardley's I've got if it isn't going to harm them and get something else for next time.
Ok so I found an Aust website to order from... but what should I order? The sinking wafers? And in what size? How long does it keep for without going off? Should I buy the 50g or guy a 25g and order more often? Sorry for the noob questions!!!
Thank you all for replying :) My fishies thank you too!!

Fishguy2727
04-17-2008, 11:54 PM
Wardley is far from good, just to set that straight. In a mix with high quality foods you should not see any harm, but feed it exclusively and a high quality brand exclusively, and you will see drastic differences.

Don't get the wafers, they are designed for sucker-mouthed fish like ottos, pleco, whiptails, algae eaters, etc. Loaches are a bottom scavenger like cories and will do best on small pellets. NLS can last a long time, so if you find it get a nice big container while you can, they may not have it later when you run out. And get more before you are out, buy when you are starting to get low. You may have to wait weeks for their next shipment to come in. To help it or any other food last longer stick it in the fridge or freezer.

smaug
04-18-2008, 12:16 AM
Wardley is far from good, just to set that straight. In a mix with high quality foods you should not see any harm, but feed it exclusively and a high quality brand exclusively, and you will see drastic differences.

Don't get the wafers, they are designed for sucker-mouthed fish like ottos, pleco, whiptails, algae eaters, etc. Loaches are a bottom scavenger like cories and will do best on small pellets. NLS can last a long time, so if you find it get a nice big container while you can, they may not have it later when you run out. And get more before you are out, buy when you are starting to get low. You may have to wait weeks for their next shipment to come in. To help it or any other food last longer stick it in the fridge or freezer.
what kind of differences would I expect,?longer life span,better coloration,better activity,clearer water?I do feed wardley almost exclusively in my 20 gal barb/tetra tank.I have fish in there that are nearing 5 yrs old!The water is crystal clear and the fish never have a problem.Honestly,I dont see how it could get much better then that.Anyway ,to each his own ,just my 2 cents.

Gemini
04-18-2008, 12:40 AM
Ok so I need to find sinking pellets. I can only find these:
Item # 43150 New Life Spectrum Large Fish Formula Food 150g
Hormone-Free Colour Enhancing 3mm Sinking Pellets
There are no Hikari sinking pellets I can find... Will these be too big? It says for large fish and my clowns and corys are absolute maximum 4 cms.

Fishguy2727
04-18-2008, 03:26 AM
That is fine. Even if they can't eat it whole they will eat it as it soaks.

Smaug, when you try NLS you will see the difference. Until then, I hope your fish don't suffer. Wardley is far from one of the best out there. Your fish happen to be hardy so many of the differences are not obvious.

Incredulous_Ed
04-18-2008, 04:27 AM
I have to agree. I used to keep rams on Wardley and TEtra flakes and they all kept dying. They would eat some, but kept getting skinnier until they would eat anything, the they died. When I fed NLS, and they finally ate it, they basically became pigs. They even bred. Im just sayin. You should try it. You'll never know if there's anything better if you dont look for it.

Gemini
04-18-2008, 04:59 AM
Cool if they will be able to eat the 3mm pellets I will order some now. I'll get the 300g package (biggest on offer) and divide it into freezer bags and just keep one out for use now. Is that the best way to keep the food from going off?

smaug
04-18-2008, 06:02 PM
That is fine. Even if they can't eat it whole they will eat it as it soaks.

Smaug, when you try NLS you will see the difference. Until then, I hope your fish don't suffer. Wardley is far from one of the best out there. Your fish happen to be hardy so many of the differences are not obvious.
my fish arent suffering,but thanks for the concern.I never stated that wardleys was the best stuff.But it is more then adequate.

duce
04-18-2008, 06:09 PM
i try to use as wide range of food as poss , if ur fish dont like a food they wont eat it .every 1 has their own opinions and views on foods with this or that fish . ur fish will let u know .
my grass eel will only come out for 1 type and 1 brand of food .fussy bugger

RainMan
04-18-2008, 06:28 PM
i try to use as wide range of food as poss , if ur fish dont like a food they wont eat it .every 1 has their own opinions and views on foods with this or that fish . ur fish will let u know .
my grass eel will only come out for 1 type and 1 brand of food .fussy bugger

This isn't a bad strategy.... because what they are missing in one type of food they might get in another. Plus no fish eats one thing and sticks to it. I think it's more natural for them to have variety.

Food is a really sensative spot with aquariust, ay? LOL

Rue
04-18-2008, 06:28 PM
Well, since Fishguy is putting in a plug for NLS, I'll put in a plug for the Omega One shrimp pellets...:hmm3grin2orange:

...very well received...even the betta girls are going after them as the sink...it's pretty funny, the pellets are too big for the baby bettas, but they don't want to let them go...

I've also heard Wardley's isn't the best, but it's not horrible either.

Do read the ingredient list...that will help you make informed decisions.

Incredulous_Ed
04-18-2008, 06:42 PM
Variety may be more "natural" but it isnt the best. Its like introducing predators into the tank to make it more "natural"

smaug
04-18-2008, 07:21 PM
Variety may be more "natural" but it isnt the best. Its like introducing predators into the tank to make it more "natural"
Variety in foods for any creature is ALWAYS best.Its what they live on naturally,of course we dont introduce all the natural things to our fish,such as predators,drought,dead jaguar fell in the water and kills them all,etc.A varied diet is important and all the foods in that variety do not have to be of the top notch.

RainMan
04-18-2008, 07:30 PM
Variety may be more "natural" but it isnt the best. Its like introducing predators into the tank to make it more "natural"

What? :14:


Variety in foods for any creature is ALWAYS best.Its what they live on naturally,of course we dont introduce all the natural things to our fish,such as predators,drought,dead jaguar fell in the water and kills them all,etc.A varied diet is important and all the foods in that variety do not have to be of the top notch.

Thank you.

Incredulous_Ed
04-18-2008, 08:11 PM
Variety is not a nutrient. They do not need it. What they need is a balanced, complete diet. If you lose sight of this you may not be giving them the best you possibly can. What if they took all that variety, added some supplements and trace nutrients, and made it in to a pellet? Would if be inferior because it is all in one bite? Many nutrients are absorbed and used better when consumed in conjunction with certain other nutrients. Feeding one thing today and another tomorrow prevents that combination and makes both less effective and less absorbable.

Lady Hobbs
04-18-2008, 10:31 PM
i try to use as wide range of food as poss , if ur fish dont like a food they wont eat it .every 1 has their own opinions and views on foods with this or that fish . ur fish will let u know .
my grass eel will only come out for 1 type and 1 brand of food .fussy bugger

If fish don't like it they won't eat it. I so agree with this. I have bought several things for my fish they just ignore. Seedweed, krill, tubifex worms and other things.

I also think there are several foods on the market that are fine for fish. To state there is only one that worths anything is incorrect in my opinion. People have kept fish for a long time and to think they were all starving to death prior to NLS is a bit ludicrous. Why can't it just be said it's one of the better foods and let it go at that?

Fishguy2727
04-18-2008, 11:19 PM
No offense, but I can't say that because I have not once seen any food achieve the results that NLS does by itself. All other foods need to be fed as part of variety to achieve about the same results as NLS, and even then it is not the same.

Foods can be okay and not do any major undeniable harm to the fish. None of them will kill the fish immediately if it eats it because it is so bad, which is effectively what many would want to see to be convinced that the food in question is actually that bad. We are talking about long-term results.

Many fish are relunctant to switch foods because they are creatures of habit. Feeding the same food all the time IF it is complete and balanced is better than providing an imbalanced and incomplete diet that includes variety.

Variety used to be an essential strategy for diet for the reasons Rainman described, what is missing or unbalanced in one is compensated for in another. HOWEVER, we now have at least one food that alone provides a complete and balanced diet. Not just for freshwater community fish, but for cichlids, some aquatic amphibians, invertebrates, marine fish, and even many marine invertebrates. The results achieved with NLS exclusively by far exceed the results of other foods fed exclusively, and even other high quality variety diets.

There is nothing natural about feeding squid, krill, spirulina, etc. to a tetra, clown loach, cichlid, clownfish, etc. These are foods that are not natural to these fish at all. If you would all like to check out my article in my blog on why nature is not ideal, you will see why taking a 'natural' approach is actually far from it and unideal.

Many fish specialize in their diet, it is part of their niche. Just because they are willing to eat it does not mean it is good for them, natural, or of any benefit. For example, mbunas are more than willing to eat live rosey reds, but this diet is almost guaranteed to cause problems and that food item should actually not even be included in their diet at all.

Many fish are relunctant to change foods (again, these are creatures of habit) and just because they refuse a food at first does not mean it should not be fed. They are used to feeding on certain foods and the smell and look of those foods trigger a feeding response. There are other things that can trigger feeding responses that are not necessarily good for them. We are obligated to provide them with the absolute best diet we possibly can. Most fish will take to NLS if you keep trying.

It is not that all other foods and diets will cause your fish to be emaciated, sick, waste away, be bland in color, and simply cause them to die. It is that NLS is better. That is it. You will get better colors, health, growth, etc. if you feed NLS. This does not mean that now Hikari will not provide great coloration, but that NLS will provide EVEN BETTER results. If you like Hikari, Wardley, a variety of live foods, etc. so much, and so many are having even better results with NLS, why not try NLS and make sure it is not an even better diet for your fish.

Are there exceptions, yes. I will be glad to provide the facts, all of them. There are some fish that will simply refuse to take to it. There are some fish that when they were fed NLS faded in color. Maybe these cases would have turned out differently if it was fed longer, or if that fish was denied other foods a little longer, but there are seemingly genuine exceptions. Which is exactly why I ask people to research NLS, carefully and with an open mind. I have never told anyone to simply take my word for it and never look back or question it.

Simply look through my article on it, look at my Photobucket page, and browse through their site (including the nutrition article, testimonials, and their video) and unless it seems like a bunch of fluffed up bs, try and get some and give it a shot.

For the record, I can't think of any brands I think are worse than Wardley.

Rue
04-19-2008, 02:15 AM
Have you used Wardley's?

Fishguy2727
04-19-2008, 02:42 AM
Yes, unfortunately. Their turtle food is even worse than their fish food.

smaug
04-19-2008, 02:52 AM
No offense, but I can't say that because I have not once seen any food achieve the results that NLS does by itself. All other foods need to be fed as part of variety to achieve about the same results as NLS, and even then it is not the same.

Foods can be okay and not do any major undeniable harm to the fish. None of them will kill the fish immediately if it eats it because it is so bad, which is effectively what many would want to see to be convinced that the food in question is actually that bad. We are talking about long-term results.

Many fish are relunctant to switch foods because they are creatures of habit. Feeding the same food all the time IF it is complete and balanced is better than providing an imbalanced and incomplete diet that includes variety.

Variety used to be an essential strategy for diet for the reasons Rainman described, what is missing or unbalanced in one is compensated for in another. HOWEVER, we now have at least one food that alone provides a complete and balanced diet. Not just for freshwater community fish, but for cichlids, some aquatic amphibians, invertebrates, marine fish, and even many marine invertebrates. The results achieved with NLS exclusively by far exceed the results of other foods fed exclusively, and even other high quality variety diets.

There is nothing natural about feeding squid, krill, spirulina, etc. to a tetra, clown loach, cichlid, clownfish, etc. These are foods that are not natural to these fish at all. If you would all like to check out my article in my blog on why nature is not ideal, you will see why taking a 'natural' approach is actually far from it and unideal.

Many fish specialize in their diet, it is part of their niche. Just because they are willing to eat it does not mean it is good for them, natural, or of any benefit. For example, mbunas are more than willing to eat live rosey reds, but this diet is almost guaranteed to cause problems and that food item should actually not even be included in their diet at all.

Many fish are relunctant to change foods (again, these are creatures of habit) and just because they refuse a food at first does not mean it should not be fed. They are used to feeding on certain foods and the smell and look of those foods trigger a feeding response. There are other things that can trigger feeding responses that are not necessarily good for them. We are obligated to provide them with the absolute best diet we possibly can. Most fish will take to NLS if you keep trying.

It is not that all other foods and diets will cause your fish to be emaciated, sick, waste away, be bland in color, and simply cause them to die. It is that NLS is better. That is it. You will get better colors, health, growth, etc. if you feed NLS. This does not mean that now Hikari will not provide great coloration, but that NLS will provide EVEN BETTER results. If you like Hikari, Wardley, a variety of live foods, etc. so much, and so many are having even better results with NLS, why not try NLS and make sure it is not an even better diet for your fish.

Are there exceptions, yes. I will be glad to provide the facts, all of them. There are some fish that will simply refuse to take to it. There are some fish that when they were fed NLS faded in color. Maybe these cases would have turned out differently if it was fed longer, or if that fish was denied other foods a little longer, but there are seemingly genuine exceptions. Which is exactly why I ask people to research NLS, carefully and with an open mind. I have never told anyone to simply take my word for it and never look back or question it.

Simply look through my article on it, look at my Photobucket page, and browse through their site (including the nutrition article, testimonials, and their video) and unless it seems like a bunch of fluffed up bs, try and get some and give it a shot.

For the record, I can't think of any brands I think are worse than Wardley.
Are you on NLS payroll!You should be.:hmm3grin2orange: Do you have actual scientific proof that wardleys is the ultimate in bad?If not Id suggest you lay off such chiseled in stone comments,they serve no one.
and Ed,variety in feeding different foods assures them getting a wide spectrum of nutrients.If you were offered a pill with everything you needed in one bite would you wish to have nothing else.Come on now fellas this little pis(*^% match about food is solving nothing.I feed the way I feed,which does not include NLS,I have at least 75 fish that are all healthy and a big percentage are nearing there life span.I feed mostly mid grade food with some natural treats thrown in,Im doing something right.
This conversation is leading no where fast,we all have our ways,this is a discussion forum,we all got on this thread to answer a question.I answered it with my opinions proven by very good results in my tank.And I am quite through with this.:14:

Gemini
04-19-2008, 09:39 AM
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
I'm sorry if I started a negative discussion, it was not the intention at all!!!

Fishguy2727
04-19-2008, 12:49 PM
I don't care how bad Wardley is, NLS is better. The results people are getting with it is scientific evidence. When all you change is diet and they are healthier, have better colorations, breed better, and grow better, it proves that it is the food making the difference. The food gets better results when it is fed exclusively. That shows that providing other foods dilutes the nutrition in NLS and causes the overall diet to be unbalanced.

You cannot compare our diets with that of fish. We have become used to the most varied diet ever. We also CHOOSE to stuff our face with stuff that we know is bad for us. Fish don't have that option. They get whatever you feed them. That is why it is so important to keep trying other foods and other diets to ensure we are giving them the best we can.

Again, variety used to be needed to ensure a complete and balanced diet. But now there is at least one food that does it by itself. That food by itself provides all the needed nutrients. From the proper levels of easily digestible proteins, to fat levels low enough to not cause fatty deposits throughout the body that lead to lethal cases of fatty liver disease and other diseases, to every needed micronutrient and trace element, it is all in NLS. When hard-to-keep marine fish that are on the edge of death completely recover in just a month because they were fed NLS excluisively, it says something. When a tiretrack eel goes from 6" to 20" in nine months on NLS exclusively, it says something. When fish that are otherwise almost impossible to keep alive for three months in captivity thrive for three years on NLS exclusively, it proves something.

If you have not read my article on it and looked through their site about the actual results and science of NLS, nor have even tried it for yourself, you have absolutely nothing to say. If you are not willing to consider the possibility that maybe there are better diets out there than the one you are currently feeding because your fish are still alive and are only defending your method based on hypotheticals and are arguing against a food you have never even used, you have nothing to say. I am not saying your fish are unhealthy. I am not saying they have no color. I am not saying you are ignorant for using the diet you use. I am simply saying NLS is usually much better. All those things will get EVEN better if your fish were given NLS.

It is hard to determine a fish's true lifespan. So many things can cut it short. Many people would think that a dead foot long eight year old oscar probably died of old age. In fact, oscars can live to be over 20 years old. It is the water quality and diet that cut that animal's life short, not old age. Many people think that tetras live to be two or three years old when in fact they can be well over five to eight years old. It is mistakes on our part, usually unknowingly, that cuts these animals' lives down to a fraction of what they could have achieved. It is foods that are too high in fat that cause fatty deposits throughout the body that cause physiological harm to the animal's health. That animal dies of fatty liver disease at four years old. We do not see it. We do not get a necropsy done. We see a seemingly healthy animal die. We blame it on old age, an unknown or mystery cause, or some minor change in the tank we made recently. In fact it was years of substandard food that killed them. Or the foods we feed provide all the necessary fat, protein, carbohydrates, and other major nutrients, but do not provide the vital micronutrients and trace elements, or at least not in the amounts needed, that are a must for long term proper physiological function. The result of this is againa seemingly healthy fish dies of unknown cause. We blame it on its age or some other incorrect conclusion.

I do not simply promote NLS for any other reason than it has proven to me to be the best diet for any fish. I am not on their payroll or have stock in their company. I recommend things (foods, heaters, filters, substrates, etc.) that have proven to me to be the best. I can't wait until a better diet comes around. If it is better than NLS I know it will be simply amazing. So far I have not seen it yet.

There is nothing wrong with this thread. This is not a p***ing match. This is people talking about proper diet, a very important concept in fishkeeping. Sharing information like this is vital to the hobby. Without it almost no one on this site would know how good NLS is or the flaws in other diets. Even if they do not switch over to NLS they get a better understanding of nutrition in general and can make improvements in their fishes' diet. Unless one of us simply starts to call the others names or make disresepctful comments, it will stay a productive debate and not an argument.

smaug
04-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
I'm sorry if I started a negative discussion, it was not the intention at all!!!
You asked a legitimate question and got a whole bunch of good answers.It was an awesome thread.I enjoyed it immensely.

gm72
04-19-2008, 01:28 PM
Everyone calm down and keep the information flowing. The discussion does not need to be negative. No one should personalize this discussion. Be mature and continue.

Threads like this are positive as long as you keep them that way.

Now, that being said, I'll say that I use NLS foods almost exclusively. I have found them to be my personal favorite for a variety of reasons:
1. The ingredient list is more well balanced and more "natural" when compared to most of the competition.
2. The food lasts much longer because there is less waste.
3. The pellets and wafers to not disintegrate in the water, so the water is not fouled if I accidentally overfeed.
4. The fish genuinely attack the food when it is placed in the tanks.
5. There is a nice variety of sizes of pellets. My guppies for example, get the grow formula, my community tanks get the...you guessed it--the community formula (slightly larger size) and the 220 gets the medium pellets--again larger still.

I also use Hikari sinking wafers to very good result with my cories. After I am done with them though I will likely switch over to NLS wafers.

So, by way of example, let's take my post as an example of how to discuss vs. argue.
1. I said my personal favorite. I did not say one of the best because at least part of that is subjective. You can have the "best" ingredients in the world and if the fish don't like it they won't eat it.
2. I said MOST of the competition on purpose. I have not compared it to every single other food on the market.
3. The rest of my points are specific to MY experience. I can't speak beyond that.

So, let's get on with a maturely sound discussion here! :19:

Rue
04-19-2008, 02:39 PM
This is a good discussion. Talking about the merits of a proper diet is always to the benefit of the fish...

gm72
04-19-2008, 02:53 PM
Absolutely good discussion.

However, let's face it. If NLS were truly the absolute hands-down best food available, ALL breeders would use it and it would completely dominate the market. They don't and it doesn't.

Incredulous_Ed
04-19-2008, 05:17 PM
It is true that some fish just wont take NLS. My show male apistrogramma cactuoids just wont eat it. I guess maybe because e was probably raised only on life foods. But I really wish he would.

Incredulous_Ed
04-19-2008, 05:18 PM
Does anyone kno how Aqueon stands in the quality rankings?

smaug
04-19-2008, 06:08 PM
Everyone calm down and keep the information flowing. The discussion does not need to be negative. No one should personalize this discussion. Be mature and continue.

Threads like this are positive as long as you keep them that way.

Now, that being said, I'll say that I use NLS foods almost exclusively. I have found them to be my personal favorite for a variety of reasons:
1. The ingredient list is more well balanced and more "natural" when compared to most of the competition.
2. The food lasts much longer because there is less waste.
3. The pellets and wafers to not disintegrate in the water, so the water is not fouled if I accidentally overfeed.
4. The fish genuinely attack the food when it is placed in the tanks.
5. There is a nice variety of sizes of pellets. My guppies for example, get the grow formula, my community tanks get the...you guessed it--the community formula (slightly larger size) and the 220 gets the medium pellets--again larger still.

I also use Hikari sinking wafers to very good result with my cories. After I am done with them though I will likely switch over to NLS wafers.

So, by way of example, let's take my post as an example of how to discuss vs. argue.
1. I said my personal favorite. I did not say one of the best because at least part of that is subjective. You can have the "best" ingredients in the world and if the fish don't like it they won't eat it.
2. I said MOST of the competition on purpose. I have not compared it to every single other food on the market.
3. The rest of my points are specific to MY experience. I can't speak beyond that.

So, let's get on with a maturely sound discussion here!
well said,cheers and hazah to you!Ive made my position clear as has everyone else on this thread.Here :11: :11: :11: :11:have a balloon everyone!

Lady Hobbs
04-19-2008, 06:08 PM
I just wish on this forum that we could at least agree there are several top rated fish foods, not every fish will eat every brand and to try and see what works for your fish.

I don't care what kind of food is on the market. All food will rot and turn to muck if it's left uneaten on the bottom of the tank.

smaug
04-19-2008, 06:12 PM
I just wish on this forum that we could at least agree there are several top rated fish foods, not every fish will eat every brand and to try and see what works for your fish.

I don't care what kind of food is on the market. All food will rot and turn to muck if it's left uneaten on the bottom of the tank.
I agree whole heartedly,there are many top rated foods out there.NLS is among them, not THE one.

Fishguy2727
04-19-2008, 09:43 PM
Breeders feed differently. For one fish would cost a fortune if breeders fed NLS because it is much more expensive per pound than what most feed. These are businesses and they need to make a profit. Large scale fish breeding requires a lot of food. If that food was NLS most would simply go out of business. In addition, the nutritional needs of breeding fish are not the same as fish that are not breeding. Breeders feed higher protein, fat, etc. because the fish need more of it. In addition, many fish need certain dietarty triggers to breed. So although NLS would be a great food to get them to breeding condition and size and in mahy cases will provide amazing breeding results, some would still need other foods while breeding.

Not to mention that SOO many people, breeders included, are still subscribing to the 'they need variety' method. In which case they will simply not even try NLS.

The fact that not everyone or not all breeders use it does not make it inferior. Read through the testimonials on their site, you will find breeders. For example: the at the time president of the American Cichlid Association wrote to the owner of NLS explaining how NLS brought out the colors on sub-dominant male Lake Victorian cichlids he was trying to breed. He thought they were females because of the colors they were lacking, colors brought out by NLS. If this helps the president of the American Cichlid Association breed more successfully, it can make a huge different for the everyday hobbyist.

There is a whole range in the quality of foods. It is not just NLS on top and everything else on the bottom. There are others that seem to be pretty close to NLS. But in my experience and what I have read of the experiences of MANY other fishkeepers, NLS seems to be on top. Try NLS. If it does not work or is not available then try Hikari, Omega One, or Ocean Nutrition.

jillybean1852
04-21-2008, 03:52 PM
You asked a legitimate question and got a whole bunch of good answers.It was an awesome thread.I enjoyed it immensely.

I'd have to say the same. One thing though, I learned a lot about different foods and feeding! Great Thread! :19:

RainMan
04-21-2008, 04:31 PM
Does anyone kno how Aqueon stands in the quality rankings?

Just from personal use... I've read it was produced by NLS from a member who works for the company.

I was kinda forced into using it because my nls stopped carying nls for cichlids. They pointed me to the aqueon and I have been using it now for almost 2months. My Malawi mbuna absolutely love it... my frontosa goes all the way to the top of the tank to get a few pellets of it... and even my synodonts will scarf it down. They all seem happy, have great coloration, and good appetite. The nitrates have remained low and cloudiness has never been a problem. But, like I said... they eat it right up. There isn't any uneaten food... ever.

I've tried almost all of the brands regularly available (wardley, hikari, nls, aqueon, tetra, and more)... Personally, I have never had any of the foods drastically change the appearance of my fish.. or make them go into a breeding frenzy. I don't think there is a miracle food... nls included.

However, I can say, that NLS and Aqueon have been some of the most accepted and diverse foods I've ever fed my fish. I've never had a single fish pass it up. Hikari is very close... But, I've had a few batches of cichlids that wouldn't eat it.

I really think the amount and schedule of the feeding is more important then a lot of the differences in the foods. I mean... most of the ingredients in cichlid food, from what I remember, is pretty similar.

RainMan
04-21-2008, 06:16 PM
..... I really think the amount and schedule of the feeding is more important then a lot of the differences in the foods. I mean... most of the ingredients in cichlid food, from what I remember, is pretty similar.

Actually... maybe not more important... but as important.

Incredulous_Ed
04-21-2008, 07:59 PM
INteresting. I would have thought it would be lower quality because the price is pretty low. Is it really made my the same company that makes NLS?

RainMan
04-21-2008, 08:28 PM
INteresting. I would have thought it would be lower quality because the price is pretty low. Is it really made my the same company that makes NLS?

Here's a quote... from the thread that I was referring too.


Aqueon food is bottled and cooked by New Life Spectrium. All Glass Aquariums changed there name to Aqueon because they are doing much more than just aquariums now. It's good stuff. I use it for both of my tanks (reef and tropical fresh) Stinky stuff but the fish like it and there's no Ethoxiquin added for preserving (Spelling?) anyway, hope this gives light to a new food. It's not as specialized like New Life in regards to the species but its an all around good food for the beggining-intermediate hobbyist and the first ingredient is whole fish meal. NLS is an excellent food and if you use it and get good results, keep using it. -
Aqueon = NLS - Page 2 - Aquarium Forum (http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showpost.php?p=187214&postcount=11)

But, as he said, "NLS is an excellent food and if you use it and get good results, keep using it." I agree... nothing wrong with NLS at all.

Fishguy2727
04-21-2008, 09:52 PM
Aqueon is not made by NLS. Maybe they get one or some of their ingredients from the same source(s), something like that. But they are not made by the same company.

How long did you feed NLS exclusively?

Gemini
04-22-2008, 03:38 AM
Well I've certainly learnt a lot about feeding my fish! I am on the look out now for some NLS or Hikari to try.
With NLS, is it important to get the right species food? The reason I ask is that I can find a few places that stock NLS for large cichlids but I don't know if this would be ok for my community tank.

Lady Hobbs
04-22-2008, 11:01 AM
RainMan......

About Aqueon

Aqueon™ products are produced by Central Aquatics™, a division of Central Garden and Pet®[NASDAQ:CENT], a company that innovates, markets and manufactures quality branded aquarium equipment.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 01:12 PM
With NLS all the foods are almost identical, and most are identical. All you have to pay attention to is size and floating/sinking.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Verification from NLS:

They have absolutely nothing to do with Aqueon.

RainMan
04-22-2008, 01:39 PM
Aqueon is not made by NLS. Maybe they get one or some of their ingredients from the same source(s), something like that. But they are not made by the same company. [\QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lady Hobbs]RainMan......
About Aqueon
Aqueon™ products are produced by Central Aquatics™, a division of Central Garden and Pet®[NASDAQ:CENT], a company that innovates, markets and manufactures quality branded aquarium equipment.

I'm just going by what he said.. this is from the previous thread,
Fish Guy is right. It is not NLS food but it is bottled and cooked at there facility. I'm the territory manager for the west coast for All Glass Aquarium. All Glass has there own formula but NLS cooks and packages it for us. Hope this clears it up. Thanks,

A lot of companies outsource production of their products.... a lot of brand name companies never manufacture a single thing. They outsource manufacturing and rebrand everything. So, they make it for them... but have a different recipe/formula specified.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 05:11 PM
If that is the case then it does not need to be mentioned. The way it has been mentioned repeatedly on here implies that Aqueon is as good as NLS because it is made by the same people/at the same place. If it simply happens to be manufactured in the same building that does not need to be posted here nor should it be mentioned at all when comparing Aqueon to NLS because it simply makes no difference and makes false implications. Not to be rude, but by saying it is made by the same people just under a different label (and later specified under a different formula when questioned) may lead many people to think it is effectively the same food, something that is not true at all.

RainMan
04-22-2008, 06:35 PM
If that is the case then it does not need to be mentioned. The way it has been mentioned repeatedly on here implies that Aqueon is as good as NLS because it is made by the same people/at the same place. If it simply happens to be manufactured in the same building that does not need to be posted here nor should it be mentioned at all when comparing Aqueon to NLS because it simply makes no difference and makes false implications. Not to be rude, but by saying it is made by the same people just under a different label (and later specified under a different formula when questioned) may lead many people to think it is effectively the same food, something that is not true at all.

Okay.. point taken. And you are right... I mispoke slightly. I guess I had selective reading initially. I know in your eyes, nothing is even close to being as good as NLS... I get it. jeeepers. Are you a major share holder or something?? No offense... but, i've never met anyone so high on something before. LOL

But, you can't say it is terrible because it's not NLS either. I still say Aqueon is good and I will keep using it. Better than NLS??? I don't know... probably not. But, my fish aren't complaining and I dont see any negative affects from switching to it. And it's easier to get and cheaper.

Will I use NLS again? Hellz ya... I already have a container of sinking .5mm NLS that my shellies are going to be fed regularly. But, I will still feed baby brine shrimp on occassion. Fish like treats... just like all animals (including the strangest animals of all.. humans).

Oh and back to topic... is Wardley bad? Nobody really knows.... it's all opinion and what works for you.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 07:28 PM
I do not have stock in NLS. I have experience and have researched. I will provide facts. If someone says something that goes against those facts I will present or repeat them. If someone presents false 'facts' or ideas that are simply theoretical and have no actual factual support, I will present evidence that goes against their ideas. I do nothing more than present the facts.

I will do the same with all sorts of other things (water change schedule, filtration, substrate, heaters, compatibility, feeding frequency, etc.). It just seems that diet comes up frequently, as it should since it is extremely important in the fishes' well-being. So someone on this forum for a long time may see a thread like this come up repeatedly. They may think it is a waste, but they don't have to read it again, but then again new information may be presented in this one.

Many want to see me stop posting about it. But that goes againt the basic idea of a forum, everyone gets to present and defend their opinion. If I don't post in a thread entitled 'What should I feed?', it is unfair to me, that person, their fish, and the forum community because it stops the flow of information. If I simply state my opinion once and do not defend myself when someone else produces false facts, misleading ideas, or other oppositions it is causing the same problem.

Many people have certain ideas that can prevent them from improving their methods. For example, many have decided that variety in diet is a basic need for the fish. After that point they simply deny anything contrary to that because they have already decided it is true. Or they may say that 'my fish are happy on...', 'my fish are doing great on...', or 'I see no problems with feeding...'. All of these are hard to determine. Fish are not going to immediately die if you feed them something besides NLS. Many foods will improve color if you include them, especially if the former diet was of lower quality. Everyone's fish are doing great on their current diet unless there is a major issue such as someone's mbunas are all coming down with Malawi Bloat. It takes HUGE issues to cause obvious problems caused by diet, otherwise the fish are all doing (or appear to be doing) great. It is very hard to determine if fish are happy on one food or another unless you try everything and they refuse all but one or a few. Not to mention that, as described before, many things may not be good for them even though they prefer them.

Again, I never said that NLS is the lone good food and that all others are equally inferior. If you want to read that go to their site and check the forum, they can be quite biased over there. If you look at what I post it is that 'NLS is the best', 'NLS is the best by far', NLS is much better than...'. It is a comparison between the two that simply says NLS is the better one. Not that the other is bad. That means that if that food is so good, imagine how much better NLS is. And in most cases it is a lot better.

You get what pay for. If one food is cheaper than another there is a reason. To get a good food you need to put good stuff in it. Those good ingredients cost more. That is why something like NLS costs much more than other foods that use cheaper ingredients like fillers and low-quality proteins.

This is not just at you Rainman, this is in general.

gm72
04-22-2008, 09:29 PM
I will just add this, although it has been said before in different wording.

Think about and research what your fish eat in nature. Then research ingredients that are known to have positive effects on fish health/growth. Then read the ingredients lists on the foods you wish to compare. It is clear by this example that, for example, the Wardley flake food is vastly inferior to NLS flake. No question. The Wardley has an enormous amount of "filler" ingredients in it.

Now, that being said, by using Wardley you are not dooming your fish, but they may not be as brightly colored/be as active/grow to the size/etc. to the degree they may if you were to use a more high quality product.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 09:54 PM
I am not trying to start anything, but I want to specify that the consequences of using inferior foods are not just relatively less color, activity, and growth. If this was the case then if someone was happy with the current state of these things in their fish they would have no reason to improve diet. But there are many other things that can go wrong.

Long-term use of an inferior diet can result in a number of issues, MANY of which are not observable at all to the hobbyist, and many are only observable after death and by advaced scientific techniques (such a necropsy). This means you may not ever know there is something wrong.

This is why I try to make sure that every time diet comes up, I let people know about what has proven to be the best so far. It is not just their color will improve, there are other health consequences of improper nutrition.

Nautilus291
04-22-2008, 09:57 PM
In all of the magazines, books that I read Ive never seen anyone say that they feed fish exclusively one type of food they all say a variety diet is the best and alot of those people are actual biologists so Im just going to go by what they say.

I have NLS and Hikari and many other brands And I never noticed this HUGE color change that everyone talks about. Maybe once I buy a new fish they color up a bunch but thats just from stress.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 11:25 PM
How long have you used NLS exclusively?

Many biologists and breeders use one food, frequently homemade. I am not sure exactly if you would count Pablo Tepoot (the owner and developer of NLS) as a biologist but he does have a number of advanced aquarium books. Not to mention that MANY breeders use one food. I can't remember the name of it now, but there is a big discus breeder in Maryland who makes his own food that he feeds his fish exclusively. I think (I am not absolutely sure) that even Jack Wattley makes his own mix and feeds it exclusively. Even if not, if you take any of those varied diets, mix them up, add vital trace elements and micronutrients that they were lacking, and make it a pellet, you are feeding one food.

gm72
04-22-2008, 11:27 PM
I am not trying to start anything, but I want to specify that the consequences of using inferior foods are not just relatively less color, activity, and growth. If this was the case then if someone was happy with the current state of these things in their fish they would have no reason to improve diet. But there are many other things that can go wrong.

Long-term use of an inferior diet can result in a number of issues, MANY of which are not observable at all to the hobbyist, and many are only observable after death and by advaced scientific techniques (such a necropsy). This means you may not ever know there is something wrong.

Notice I clearly stated "etc." I should specify that using inferior quality food can indeed ultimately lead to diminished life expectancy, increased risk for disease, and other miscellaneous nastiness that you generally don't want.

So, don't use the bottom of the barrel cheapo brands but don't feel limited to the high expense foods either.

Fishguy2727
04-22-2008, 11:40 PM
I felt it was necessary to explain that it is not just those types of things. Even though you did say etc., I wanted to make sure people knew it was more than just minor things that do not pose any major health risks, that there are major health issues involved here.

I simply think if there is something that seems like it at least could be that much better (many people telling their experience that shows that it is, at least in most cases), why not try it and make sure it isn't better than the fishes' current diet.

If you can get NLS, try it exclusively for a few months. Worst case you switch back.