Cichlids -What kind? How many?

[Cichlid_Man]

OK,

I already started with some Cichlids in my 75g tank and I think I began all wrong.

I have Malawi Cichlids, but I now hear that I should have added more female than male for each species?

So far I have 2 P Kennyi, 2 Electric Blue Ahli, 2 Yellow labs and 2 Snow White Socolfi. The P Kennyi are a male and a female and so are the Electric Blues, but the others I have no clue.

Should I add 2 more of each that I have in hopes of attaining a better male/female ratio, or is what I have OK?
Also, are 8 of what I have enough for a 75g?

So, my question is twofold.
Should I leave it as is because 8 is enough?
If I can add, should I add more of what I have, or can I add other Mbuna?

Thanks!

[kimmers318]

This is the tank you are still cycling correct? If so, I assume you are just looking to the future as to whether you can add more fish, please don't do so right now. Of course, with Dad in ICU all week, I may have missed any postings that you have successfully finished your cycling, so I apologize in advance if that statement wasn't necessary.
As for whether you should or can add more fish, that is something you may want to decide for yourself. With mbuna, some people overstock to spread the natural aggression around, others understock. And since alot of the time the fish are juvenile when you get them it is hard to purchase the correct ratio of m/f fish. (That is why I was so excited when I found mature dwarfpuffers and was able to determine I was adding 1m and 1f to my existing females tank!). As long as you have good filtration your tank should be able to handle more fish, but give it some time to make sure you don't have any overly aggressive ones. You will also need to create plenty of hiding places with rocks and caves, they spend alot of time zipping in and out and chasing each other. My husband is the mbuna guy around here, I believe he has around 13-15 assorted mbuna in a 75 gal...loads of rock structure, and 3 demasoni fry that have been spawned while in the tank. He also has a bristlenose for the algae who is thriving on the spirulina food that they are fed. His stock does include kennyi, and the yellow labs, along with a bumblebee, acei, demasoni and a few others. We see alot of chasing but nothing drastic. He also changes his decor around frequently to make everyone find new places to "own", so I would suggest that when you are ready to add fish you redecorate first to throw everyone for a loop and then add new fish. This way everyone is equal as far as noone has a special place to be aggressive about. Hope that helps.

[Fishguy2727]

The Ahlis are not mbunas. they are Utakas (big openwater fish eaters) so they should not be in with the mbunas. Other than that if you have a ton of rockwork in there you should be able to add more. However I would not add them if you do not know whether they are male or female because you could very well end up with more males and the fighting will be even worse.

[Cichlid_Man]

Kimmer,

My tank DID in fact finish it's cycle.
I don't know if the stress zyme helped or not, but nitrites are 0,
ammonia is 0, nitrates are 5, PH is 8.2.
I am happy.
Thanks for the re-decorating tip! I guess I can assort my fish.

Reptileguy....
The Ahli were listed under Mbuna at the darn store.
They are doing OK in there. They bother nobody and nobody bothers them.
Are you telling me they eat other fish? I guess they get crazy as they mature?

P.S.
The Ahli seem to school with the others nicely??
Is is possible that since they were all put in young, they will get along, or is it instinct? The article I read said Ahli shouldn't be in less than 90 gallons!
Geesh!
Also, if I over stock the tank, the fish will not grown to normal size, correct?

The aggression I have in the tank are the 2 P Kennyi chasing each other and that's it.

I have lots of caves and rocks. They do zip in and out, but nobody really has claimed a spot yet.

Maybe I'll get 2 more yellow labs and 2 more of something else.
I have no place for the Ahli!!!
I just read an article about them that says they fear Mbuna, but can hold their own against them. I guess I am in for trouble?

[Fishguy2727]

The Ahlis ( and other Utakas) are the reason the Mbunas stick so close to the rockwork. As they all get bigger the Ahlis will start to bully everyone else in the tank. That's how it is in the 90 at my work, the Utaka is now running things. The Utaka at my work was in there before he started to outgrow everyone and chase them around. Overstocking does not equal less growth if done right, and that would not be a good thing anyways. Stunting is very unhealthy and the last thing that should be allowed to happen in any sized tank.

[Cichlid_Man]

The Ahlis ( and other Utakas) are the reason the Mbunas stick so close to the rockwork. As they all get bigger the Ahlis will start to bully everyone else in the tank. That's how it is in the 90 at my work, the Utaka is now running things. The Utaka at my work was in there before he started to outgrow everyone and chase them around. Overstocking does not equal less growth if done right, and that would not be a good thing anyways. Stunting is very unhealthy and the last thing that should be allowed to happen in any sized tank.

I did a lot more reading and I agree with you.
The best thing I can do is get real good hiding spots I guess...
I have another Cichlid tank, a 30 gallon, and as they matured, things got wild. Basically, you don't see my fish unless they are eating. Not very much fun.

Also, I wouldn't ever want to even try to stunt the fish growth by over stocking. I have 8, and maybe I will add just a few more in hopes of getting that male female ratio better.
Thanks!!!

[Lady Hobbs]

I was reading all week about cichlids as I was thinking of going that way, as well. Repitle guy is right on with everything I've read so far. Open area cichlids are said to not get along well with rock cichlids, they should all come from the same area, more females than males, more in a tank mean less aggression, and adding several at once will not cause as much aggression as territories are not yet established.

I have given up the idea of cichlids for now and back to wanting rainbows!

[Cichlid_Man]

I was reading all week about cichlids as I was thinking of going that way, as well. Repitle guy is right on with everything I've read so far. Open area cichlids are said to not get along well with rock cichlids, they should all come from the same area, more females than males, more in a tank mean less aggression, and adding several at once will not cause as much aggression as territories are not yet established.

I have given up the idea of cichlids for now and back to wanting rainbows!

Yes, you are right about Reptile guy.
I was reading a lot too, and he knows his Cichlids!

I went to town today and made things a bit better.
I bought 2 female yellow labs and 2 female P Kennyi. Really pretty.
I also added driftwood and the Ahli are already hiding there to keep away from the others..
They come out and eat and swim a little, but they are hanging out in the driftwood. Poor guys..

Next trip to town I will see what they have that are like caves. I hear they love caves..

Thanks for responding Hobbs!!!

Good luck with the rainbows.
The Cichlids are fun but a lot of work. You have to replace salt with water changes, etc., but I lovem' !

[Fishguy2727]

If you don't really mind the unnatural look (which you shouldn't because technically you wouldn't put driftwood in there) they love clay pots and PVC pipes and T-connectors. They will quickly develop a light covering of algae that will 'naturalize' them. It may sound ugly, but the fish love them, and you shoudl do what's best for them, not just your enjoyment. They are also cheaper than the natural alternative (lots of expensive rock bought from the LFS).

[Cichlid_Man]

If you don't really mind the unnatural look (which you shouldn't because technically you wouldn't put driftwood in there) they love clay pots and PVC pipes and T-connectors. They will quickly develop a light covering of algae that will 'naturalize' them. It may sound ugly, but the fish love them, and you shoudl do what's best for them, not just your enjoyment. They are also cheaper than the natural alternative (lots of expensive rock bought from the LFS).

Tha's a great idea....Thanks...
Thanks for the suggestion, and I have all that stuff laying around.

The driftwood I put in there is not real...It is ceramic and they love it.

This is getting better every day.
I look forward to getting up. The tannk light automatically goes on, the fish are waiting to eat...They are awesome....

It' funny, since the tank is still sort of new, I still do a "head count" every morning to see if they made it through the night.
The water is perfect so I don't think I will have problems.

[Fishguy2727]

I forgot to add this last time: If you are not doing so yet, you should start adding a buffer to get the pH to 8.2 and you should also add some salt made specifically for Lake Malawi. For both i use Seachem brand. This will help keep the water as close to they would have in nature, which means they will do that much better. They are hardy so not doing so won't outright kill them, but doing so will allow for better long term effects like increased lifespan, better colors, better growth, more likely to breed, and better ability to thrive.

[Cichlid_Man]

I forgot to add this last time: If you are not doing so yet, you should start adding a buffer to get the pH to 8.2 and you should also add some salt made specifically for Lake Malawi. For both i use Seachem brand. This will help keep the water as close to they would have in nature, which means they will do that much better. They are hardy so not doing so won't outright kill them, but doing so will allow for better long term effects like increased lifespan, better colors, better growth, more likely to breed, and better ability to thrive.

Thanks Reptileguy!
My PH stays at 8.2
I have crushed coral substrate and tuffa rocks which help.

I am using aquarium salt now, but the Malawi salt has been ordered.

[Fishguy2727]

Good, the aquarium salt is not what they need, so when you get the Malawi salt, start using it with water changes, dosing according to the amount of water you change, not the volume of the tank.

[Cichlid_Man]

Good, the aquarium salt is not what they need, so when you get the Malawi salt, start using it with water changes, dosing according to the amount of water you change, not the volume of the tank.

OK,
So if I remove 15 gallons of water, I add back 3 tablespoons of salt, or is the malawi salt different??

[Fishguy2727]

Follow the directions on the Malawi salt when you get it. So if it is one teaspoon per 5 gallons and you take out 15 gallons, you will add three teaspoons (one tablespoon).

[Cichlid_Man]

Follow the directions on the Malawi salt when you get it. So if it is one teaspoon per 5 gallons and you take out 15 gallons, you will add three teaspoons (one tablespoon).

I got a call from the Pet place and they cannot ship Malawi salt at this time.
I looked on line and all I find is Malawi/Victoria buffer???

I see Cichlid salt but not specifically Malawi salt.

Is there an on line source for Malawi salt?

[Fishguy2727]

Seachem's is called Cichlid Lake Salt, not specific to Malawi because all three of the major rift lakes have the same salts in the same proportions, just in different concentrations. So the directions give different dosing instructions for each lake. The buffer is used to bring the pH up to about 8.2, not really to supply all the trace salts the way the salt does.

[Cichlid_Man]

Thanks again...

I will have to re-check with the LFS on this.

I think I may have to order online.
PetSmart has it online, but not in the store, go figure!


For now, I don't think the aquarium salt will hurt, but it isn't exactly what they need.
I'll get on it ASAP.