Spraybar Question

[fins_n_fur]

I wondering if one/some of you can help me with my spray bar setup. I have a 120G/450 l planted tank with an Eheim Prof III 2180 canister. I have co2 in the form of an electrified carbon/sandwich device which runs the same time that the lights are on (timed for 9 hours a day).

Anyway, my filter returns so much water with force through to spray bar that my plants look like are living in the rapids. I'm thinking of either drilling bigger holes or simply removing the end cap of the spraybar. Is one of these okay to do? Being new to the hobby, I'm not quite grasping the need to or not to break surface tension for fear of losing all the CO2. I had to attach the spray bar to the left side of the tank and not the rear because the water hit the background and sprayed the lights too much. I also have two intakes one in each far corner of the tank. I can also adjust the filter flow in and out downwards, but am worried about lower filtration of the water. The spray bar sits just at water level with the outlet holes pointed under water level.

Thoughts? Ideas? They are much appreciated! Thanks!

[jbeining75]

Can you adjust the return speed on the canister first off? Second try to break it with rockwork or something solid that will take the impact and dispurse it through the tank. If you take the endcap of the spraybar all that will happen is you will get a big jet pounding against the front of your tank and the side jets will be very week. If you deside to drill the holes bigger there is nothing wrong with that. The bigger the holes the less powerful the spray because the water is removed from the bar faster and the pressure doesn't have time to build up. With CO2 the more surface agitation the more co2 that is diffused from the water creatinga greater need for co2. Put the spraybar 3 to 4 inches under the water level to create less surface aggitation.

[xoolooxunny]

I use a comparison that I think is very easy to follow concerning C02 escape: We know soda is carbonated, obviously with co2. Which will go flat (lose C02) faster, a still glass full, or a glass that is being shaken?

[fins_n_fur]

Thanks JB - I'm going to try drilling the holes larger to see how it works, I've got a spare if I mess things up. And thanks xoolooxunny for the analogy, that's a good one!

[Halelorf]

I'm sure that being an eheim there is something to make the return flow lower. I would try that before I began drilling the spray bar or trying to mod other things that once you've done you can't go back. Also the big rock to break the flow is a great idea.

[fins_n_fur]

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

I can definitely make the flow slower, it's just that as I continue stocking the tank, the idea of spending the money on the filter was to provide more than enough filtration or even over filtration. Someone's started a DIY spray bar thread, so I going to watch that and see what develops and it's given me a few ideas of my own already.

[doug z]

What type of filter do you have, fins?

I have a 2217, and I don't see anywhere where I can adjust output..

Note that UV sterilizers have throughput adjusters, and would give you 2 birds with one stone:

Help keep algae under control

Let you adjust your outflow rate

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

It's something I'm considering in case I end up in the same situation you're in...

[fins_n_fur]

@doug z Don't tempt me with more stuff to buy LOL I'll be getting 5-6 otos in a day or two to combat the algae problem that I currently have and will continue to feed them with a diet of sinking algae tablets and veggies to supplement their diet. This is the filter that I have (2180, same as 2080, but thermo version):
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

It allows you to adjust input/output (only together), so if you lower input, then you lower output and vice versa. Eheim, I would have thought, would make a larger diameter spray bar with larger output holes if you wanted to run the sucker at full input/output. The output on it's highest setting, which I'm thinking I'll need to move to once the tank is fully stocked, makes the tank like a biotope rapids and probably dispersing way too much co2. Not want I had in mind for a peaceful S American community tank LOL.

I'm in the process of running a couple of diy ideas through my head and will sketch them out to see what I can come up with.

[doug z]

Ok.. Just a thought.. :)

You have the spray bars below the surface, right?

Let us know how the otos are at solving the problem, please!!!

[fins_n_fur]

From what I've read they'll do a great job. I have once piece of driftwood, strange that it's only one, that's nearly green instead of brown LOL and it's growing on the front piece of glass nearly as soon as I have cleaned it after a water change. But I'll happy to come back with the results. I was going to get amanos just for fun until I heard that angels tend to consider them as gourmet meals :18: As long as I luck out at the lfs (along with with rummy nose tetras) on Saturday, I'll let you know.

[doug z]

Cool, thanks..

[fins_n_fur]

And yes, spray bar is below the water surface...any input is appreciate to help me sort it out. Always to have another thought/view of the problem and possible solutions to...it gets the brain burning/churning with ideas.

[doug z]

How do you have the spraybars set up?

Dave suggested this set-up, though that's for 2 cannisters..

[fins_n_fur]

I have two intakes, positioned in the left and right back corners. The one spray bar (two intakes, but one output) is at the top left of the tank running horizontally at the top, just under the surface of the water turned downwards slightly not to have the surface looking like a storm front moving in. I kind of hosed myself, pun intended, at the beginning and didn't do enough planning (lesson learned LOL). When I first bought the tank, I thought the internal box filter that it came with would not bother me...and I have a rather a thick styrofoam background which does not allow me to stick anything to the back of the tank except at the very top. Then I realised that the internal box filter was hideous and took up valuable water realty and was really not powerful enough for what I wanted when the tank was fully stocked. I tried putting the spray bar at the back top above the water line, but the lamps get soaked from the spray. I'm also toying with the idea of draining the tank a bit, putting some small holes in the styrofoam, siliconing the spray bar clamps in (without the suction cups), letting it cure, and then topping up on the water. But, from an aesthetic point of view, I hate seeing the kit in the tank when I just want to see the fish, plants, wood, and sand. Another option is to put the spray bar in vertically at a front corner and direct it somewhat towards the front (the tank is a bow front) and have it go that way. I'm a perfectionist PITA LOL

[doug z]

Well, let us know how it goes.. :)

I'm going to set mine up thusly, and hide it with plants..

[fins_n_fur]

Will do...Travie's posted a DIY thread where he's thinking of a DIY with a pvc spray bar in the back bottom of the tank...pretty much totally hidden--that's another thought. And, I'm thinking of integrating the co2 thingie so that the outbound flow of water goes through a box with the co2 device and then on to the submerged spraybar. Not sure I have the DIY talent, but I could shock myself LOL

[doug z]

pretty much totally hidden--that's another thought

Yeah, that's what I want to do, minus the DIY part.. LOL

[fins_n_fur]

I'll let you know what I come up with...without DIY is completely preferred, but I do have clever ideas once every blue moon or so LOL

[Bobo the Clown Loach]

I had the same issue when I purchased my cannister (Penn-Plax Cascase 7700) for my 36 gal. Since my tank is a quarter cylender tank it makes setup a little weird. I tried the powerhead and it was way too much flow even when I turned down the output on the return. It came with a spray bar that I had above the surface, this cause too much noise and loss of CO2. I took the advice of a few members and put the rain bar below the surface, over a foot below the surface, pointing at a 45 degree angle against the side glass. With that setup I can run the filter at full blast (it's rated for a 75 gallon tank I think) without blowing my plants out of the substrate. Yes, the rain bar looks a little weird in the middle of the glass on my tank, so I just hid it with more plants. Damn you lfs and all your plants!

[fins_n_fur]

Thanks for the feedback, again, much appreciated. I'll be futzing around with it on the weekend to see what I think would work...or think about using the filter as a power washer LOL

[travie]

Yeah, that's what I want to do, minus the DIY part.. LOL

It shouldn't be hard to do a DIY spraybar. Find the right size of PVC pipe to fit the tubing. Make sure the end/s are capped. Drill holes for water output. I'm just not sure what size to make the holes. If a color other then white is desired use the Krylon Fusion(I think thats the name) paint.

[doug z]

Yeah, we were talking about a CO2 reactor..

A DIY spraybar shouldn't be necessary, I think..

It's all about placement..

I am going to have my spraybars pointed vertically along the back, pointed along the back, firing to the left, with the suctions on the right..

Hopefully this will result in an elliptical back to front to back flow that doesn't blow any plants around.. If it does, I can just adjust it so it HITS the back of the tank, more than travels at a 90 deg angle ALONG the back..

[fins_n_fur]

The fix was super simple--and I like simple solutions LOL. I just took a philips-type screwdriver a bit larger than the holes and placed it on each hole and twisted till the screwdriver went through...took all of 10 minutes. Much easier than drilling and I know with my luck I would have drilled right through the spray bar :hmm3grin2orange: The spray bar is just under the water and the holes are just pointed below the surface of the water so I have some surface tension breaking, but no more rapids look.

I still like Travie's idea of a DIY spray bar, but for now, this works.

[doug z]

So that worked?

Interesting!

I'll have to keep that in mind..... :)

[fins_n_fur]

I was amazed, I have to say, but like I said, I like simple !

[doug z]

Well that's good, eh?

[fins_n_fur]

Absolutley thumbs2: