My neice has a 5g cheapo

[RainMan]

Well she's my neice to be... Anyway, between her and her mother they have totally killed fish after fish. Gouramis, mollys, catfish, and even a goldfish (fresh from the fairgrounds). This was a birthday present last year in Aug... I told the mother that these 5g tanks are not a good idea. So against my suggestion they went and bought it for her anyway. But, somehow they have managed to keep a single neon tetra alive since Dec. The last incident occured when the mother totally cleaned the entire tank out including the gravel and filter (basically killing all the bacteria). Even after I told her not to do it. The tank of course clouded up and all but the neon died. This is just a single example of what they continually do wrong. Total newbies... and they hate to listen. arghhhh!

Well, to shorten this terrible story... I have finally stepped in and have taken over. I explained the nitrogen cycle AGAIN and what needs to happen. I am going to get a fish book for beginners (hopefully something with lots of pictures and small words). I don't want to be responsible for this little tank forever. They are like an hour drive away too. But, finally they agreed to pay more attention and learn the basics. FINALLY!!! LOL

Tank as it is:
submersed whisper filter, small air stone, built in hood with small light, some ugly pink decorations, pink rocks, and a plastic plant. of course the tank is pink too. Girls... YUK!!! hehe

Here's my question. I think these 5g tanks are basically worthless... unless you're keeping a beta. But, can she get 2 or 3 more of these tetras? I figured that tetra has made it thus far... she and I would like to keep the little one happy. Any other suggestions would be great. I've never had a tank under 20g. So, this is all new to me.

Is it best to use fake plants in here?

If this is a waste of time... feel free to tell me. I'ld rather go back and tell her we have to do something else then torture these poor fish.

Thanks in advance!!

[travie]

I would get at least one low light plant in there like java fern or some type of anubias.

[Tooch]

While Neons are very common fish, they are alot less hardy than people would suspect. They are also a schooling fish, happiest when kept with 6 or more. You could probably stick 6ish Neons in the tank. The best thing to do would be to go out and get a larger tank, but if that's not possible, make the best of it!

[RainMan]

I'll see if we can get a java fern for it. I think that would be good too.

I'm completely amazed this neon is alive. How many neons can i put in the tank at once? Would another 5 be okay to introduce all at once. And do they have to be the same color? I should do some research before I ask a ton of dumb questions. sorry

If I had a bigger tank I would set it up for them. But, they are about to give up and not interested in spending money on anything right now. But, I'm trying to show them that it is possible to create harmony if you do it right. They would definitely consider upgrading if they get a handle on the hobby. If they don't get a handle on it this time... that will be it for them. I'll make sure of it. Either you get it or you don't.

For the mother... It's one of those... "if you can take care of these fish, you can get a bigger tank," type of thing. You know... show me some resposibility first. Unfortunately, neither of them realized its not just a matter of feeding them and loving them like a dog or cat.

Anyway, thanks guys.

[travie]

I'm completely amazed this neon is alive. How many neons can i put in the tank at once? Would another 5 be okay to introduce all at once. And do they have to be the same color?

What do you mean by the same color? Neons are red and blue, they don't come in another color. I wouldn't add them all at once to that small of a tank.

[Tooch]

For the mother... It's one of those... "if you can take care of these fish, you can get a bigger tank," type of thing. You know... show me some resposibility first.

Anyway, thanks guys.


That's not really fair to the little girl. As strange as it sounds, the smaller the tank, the harder it is to keep stable. I wouldn't put 5 in all at once. You could mix Neons and Cardinals, but the Cardinals would get to large. Stick with neons, maybe adding 2/week. My lfs sells their 2.5, 5, and 10 gallon tanks all at the same price.

[gem]

Why not try Cardinals rather than neons. They're basically very similiar but definately heartier. Or some longfin zebra danios. IMO just a betta would be best suited for that tank.....but if they MUST have more than one fish.....

[gem]

What do you mean by the same color? Neons are red and blue, they don't come in another color. I wouldn't add them all at once to that small of a tank.


There are Black neons.

[travie]

I wouldn't put danios in anything smaller then a 10g. They need room to swim.

[travie]

Thus they are called black neon tetras, not just neon tetras.

[Sasquatch]

6 neons total should do in that tank.

Another hardy option would be 3-4 male guppies. If you want to get something else interesting, 10ish cherry shrimp would go well too ... and help maintain water quality.

Frankly, we have just setup our 5g and they're not that bad. Weekly water changes and very small feeding are the key. Avoiding the temptation to overstock is another ... but there are several options, even for a 5g.

[RainMan]

I totally agree... this entire thing has been unfair (to the kid and the fish). The poor kid just really wanted some fish. She loves coming to my house and watching mine. It's the first place she goes when she gets there. I feel like I started it all. So, i am actually feeling a little guilty too. ?

Anyway, she has actually listened to me more than the mother. So, that's gonna be the new deal. The mother will stay out of it. I'm hoping in a couple of months, if she can keep it going... I'll get her a 10g or even a 20g setup. If her mom finally approves.

Even if there was a difference in price between the 5g and 10g.. it was less than $10 bucks. This was the beginning of the parents not listening to me. And why i was originally trying to stay out of it.

Thanks again civic... I have a pretty good handle on it now. I have an extra test kit and some misc. tank stuff. I'll go there this weekend and see where the water is at. She has been doing little water changes ever day. Luckily their tap water is relatively soft and pH is around 7.0 or less. (the pH is probably not ideal... but from what I've read so far, should be okay)

[RainMan]

I agree.. beta would be best. Totally out of the question though. I tried.... but, they do not like them.

The other issue now is... the lonely neon is there to stay. I can't take it out or it will break the kids heart. It's the longest survivor so far.

Can the black go with the regular neon? And I have no idea what colors they came in. See... dumb question because i didn't research enough. LOL

I was also thinking of shrimp too. LadyHobbs has my mind stuck on that now. :) Can they go in with the 6 neons? And how many?

Thanks everyone. I'm getting some great ideas.

[travie]

Stay with regular red and blue neon tetra. The black neon tetras don't exactly school with neon tetras, and they get bigger then neon tetra.

Start out with ghost shrimp. Cheapest shrimp at LFS's.

[Tooch]

And the Cardinals get to be about double the size of Neons, around 3". 6 of those in a 5gal tank would be too crowded. 6 Neons and some shrimp would work well! Just be sure to take your time adding them, as the small filter (I'm assuming) wouldn't be able to handle the bio-load. Neons don't create much, but it's a small tank and better to play it safe than sorry. As you said, it's better for them to adapt to a constant pH than mess with it. Just take your time acclimating them to the tank, and everything should work out fine! Remember to take some water conditioner over there as well.

[Sasquatch]

Shrimp will be no problem with neons. Neons are too small to really bother them.

As for the pH, 7.0 should be fine for neons. The "ideal" is 6.5ish, but that's in a perfect world ... and frankly, most fish are kept at pH 7.0ish by the suppliers and fish stores.

[RainMan]

Stay with regular red and blue neon tetra. The black neon tetras don't exactly school with neon tetras, and they get bigger then neon tetra.

Start out with ghost shrimp. Cheapest shrimp at LFS's.

Good to know.. how many ghost shrimp should we start off with? Should I introduce the neons tetras and then shrimp or visa versa or it does it matter?

If she doesn't okay the shrimp idea... she had asked about kuli loaches. I told her that I didn't think it was big enough. Any thoughts on that?

I have her using some stress coat pre-treated (about a 1/4 tsp.) in a 1 gallon water jug. She's been replacing that much water every other day.

[RainMan]

I figured the pH would be too much for her to keep track of anyway. Maybe that will be the next step.. in a bigger tank where fluctuations do not happen so easy.

[travie]

The order of introducing neons and shrimp won't matter. Just the amount added each time will matter. I know nothing about loaches.

[Tooch]

Ghost shrimp are pretty neat. They are transparent, and if fed colorful foods you can see it go through the body. They'll also do a great job helping keep the bottom clean, as they'll reach between the pretty pink rocks and pull stuff out. I have a feeling she'll like them! You could add either one first, as neither are territorial.

[Tolley]

you can fit a fair few shrimp in there. Shrimp dont count in the stocking as they clean more than they produce. Small tanks arent all that bad i lvoe my 7.5g

[RainMan]

Awesome news... Yeah... i'm getting pretty excited about the shrimp idea. I just have to sell her on it. Do they sell pink food? That would surely win her over. LOL

So to sum it all up:
Test water this weekend... if everything is okay...
Add a java fern. Wait one week...
Then 2 more neons and maybe a shrimp.
If everything is okay after another week...
a few more neons
And maybe another shrimp or 2 down the road.

With any luck she can keep up with it and we'll have a new aquarist amongst us. I have faith in her. If not... I'll have a pink aquarium to add to the collection. :)

[Tooch]

I have some kind of tetra flakes that have a colored center that I feed my Neons. Hakari is reddish in color, and you can get small pellets for them as well.

[randompete]

I didn't see an answer about the Kuhlii loach, so I'll supply one here.

No way. They will often eat shrimp so you have a problem there, and their bioload is higher than 6 neons and a few shrimp combined. They are wonderful fish, truly entertaining when they're out, but often hiding in odd places like under the undergravel filter. Still, in this tank, it's just a bad idea. I think the shrimp and neons will work great.

[RainMan]

I didn't see an answer about the Kuhlii loach, so I'll supply one here.

No way. They will often eat shrimp so you have a problem there, and their bioload is higher than 6 neons and a few shrimp combined. They are wonderful fish, truly entertaining when they're out, but often hiding in odd places like under the undergravel filter. Still, in this tank, it's just a bad idea. I think the shrimp and neons will work great.

Hey... thanks for the reply. I decided against the kuli.... it just seemed like a bad idea. But, I had to put this project on hold too. It happened around Easter (which i forgot was coming up) and I haven't been able to find the time. But, she's actually spending the weekend. Which is funny you replied to today.

Anyway, we went to the local lfs and I showed her some ghost shrimp. She's now in love with the shrimp idea.... she said, "those are the coolest thing." And at .49 cents a piece... we're good to go. I also headed over to Borders and picked up a copy of "Setting up a Tropical Aquarium, Week-by-week" Anyone ever seen this book? This is one of the coolest and useful beginner aquarium books i've ever seen. She's gonna read through it. :)

Anyway, I'll hopefully post an update with some pics in the next few weeks. It should be full of pink and purple aquascaping splender for everyone's enjoyment. LOL

Thanks again!

[MelonMan]

Well she's my neice to be... Anyway, between her and her mother they have totally killed fish after fish. Gouramis, mollys, catfish, and even a goldfish (fresh from the fairgrounds). This was a birthday present last year in Aug... I told the mother that these 5g tanks are not a good idea. So against my suggestion they went and bought it for her anyway. But, somehow they have managed to keep a single neon tetra alive since Dec. The last incident occured when the mother totally cleaned the entire tank out including the gravel and filter (basically killing all the bacteria). Even after I told her not to do it. The tank of course clouded up and all but the neon died. This is just a single example of what they continually do wrong. Total newbies... and they hate to listen. arghhhh!

Well, to shorten this terrible story... I have finally stepped in and have taken over. I explained the nitrogen cycle AGAIN and what needs to happen. I am going to get a fish book for beginners (hopefully something with lots of pictures and small words). I don't want to be responsible for this little tank forever. They are like an hour drive away too. But, finally they agreed to pay more attention and learn the basics. FINALLY!!! LOL

Tank as it is:
submersed whisper filter, small air stone, built in hood with small light, some ugly pink decorations, pink rocks, and a plastic plant. of course the tank is pink too. Girls... YUK!!! hehe

Here's my question. I think these 5g tanks are basically worthless... unless you're keeping a beta. But, can she get 2 or 3 more of these tetras? I figured that tetra has made it thus far... she and I would like to keep the little one happy. Any other suggestions would be great. I've never had a tank under 20g. So, this is all new to me.

Is it best to use fake plants in here?

If this is a waste of time... feel free to tell me. I'ld rather go back and tell her we have to do something else then torture these poor fish.

Thanks in advance!!


I dont think that 5gallons are worthless it helps people who cant house larger tanks happy and they are suitable for a variety of fish just look at Jess' nano fish list!!!! not to mention tolleys lampeyes. I dont know where i would be without my two little tanks

[RainMan]

That's cool... someone always comes and posts in here around the time I am thinking about it.

I finally went and helped her out this weekend. Her water stabilized. Ammonia/Nitrite = 0, and nitrate was 40-60ppm. We cleaned the tank a little, did a 25% water change, and the next day changed her filter (carbon was over a month old). Params were still good and her nitrate went down to <20ppm. She had 3 fish in there... 2 tetras (neon and glowlight) and some other tetra that was (orange/pinkish)?? Her little fish are looking pretty good. She's going to get 3 more neons... and exchange the other little bully. I couldn't find any ghost shrimp around her house. So, I don't know if that will happen.

I told her to do some 10% water changes every week... showed her how to do it, and clean the tank and filter. There were a lot of odd looks on her face and some "oooohhh... gross" remarks that worred me. I got the feeling this is a little too much responsibility and a 12yo doesn't have the attention span to keep fish. Anyway, plants are out of the question. She had a fake plant in there... so that's good enough. :)

I took some pics... and will see if I can upload a few later. It's quite a colorful site... pink, purple, florescent colors and a green fake plant. LOL

[Sasquatch]

A little responsibility will do her some good. Kids should learn that when they start something, they have to keep it up.

Keep us posted and don't give up. Small tanks may be a little difficult sometimes, but they're still worth it and a lot easier to maintain for kids than larger tanks.

[MandyL]

Why are plants out of the question? I would at least throw a clump of Java moss in there or attach it on a rock.

[RainMan]

Why are plants out of the question? I would at least throw a clump of Java moss in there or attach it on a rock.

Maybe if she gets a handle on this... I'm not sure about the lighting either. Plus, I can see her forgetting to turn on/off the lights from time to time. I started thinking about algae blooms and dying plants.

I just don't want to over-do-it. It seems like any little change with that little amount of water could throw everything off.

I really wanted to do a plant though.

[graceluvsplatys]

I know! i hate parent that way
"I would much prefer you start with a 7g rather than a 20, its much easier"
of course, theres NO WAY it coulkd be much haarder!