Clueless

[Adrian]

Some of you know that I have gotten the green light to turn my jacuzzi into a pond. It measures 8 feet by 8 feet by 3 feet. I have had goldfish in the past, and had success at it. But this is a completely different ball game. I have no idea on what fish to get, thinking about koi. Not sure where to get them, or how to select them.

Not sure what plants to plant, what substrate to use, anything. I have no experience with this at all. I don't want to harm any fish, so I want to do this right to begin with, so I don't end up with huge problems on my hands later on.

This is what I have to work with. Any ideas, hints, or cheats welcomed.

[Nautilus291]

Wow that will make a great pond. Its already in the ground and ready to go. I dont have any experience with ponds so I cant help you but good luck!!

[Rue]

That's more promising than I had envisioned! Should be fun to renovate...

First thing - remove the handle! :22:

[Fishguy2727]

Not big enough for koi permanently. In Florida you could do fancy or the normal long-bodied pond goldfish.

[Adrian]

What can I use to cycle this...uhm...tank?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Have you considered trying Rainbow Dace? They are a lovely little fish I just discovered and am planning to use in my outdoor tank. They are actually native to the US. Are you in Northern or Southern Florida?

[Adrian]

Have you considered trying Rainbow Dace? They are a lovely little fish I just discovered and am planning to use in my outdoor tank. They are actually native to the US. Are you in Northern or Southern Florida?

I am in central florida. Tampa

[Drumachine09]

Question:

Why aren't you using it for a jacuzzi?

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

This may sound strange, but you could actually put Oscars in there. I have friends in that area who have told me of actually catching them in the streams around there. Apparently people just let them go and they have acutally survived. According to some sources I've seen, they actually have a sustainalbe population of oscars in the wild in Florida due to some irresponsibe hobbyists.

[Adrian]

Question:

Why aren't you using it for a jacuzzi?

Heat pump went out on it, total for a replacement was 3500.00. Too much money for the very few times we actually used it. Beside the jacuzzi, is roughly a 25,000 gallon pool that we do use.

So I figured to add a bit of eye candy to the pool area with a pond.

[Drumachine09]

IDEA:

Turn the jacuzzi into a small pool, and the pool, into a large pond!

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Beside the jacuzzi, is roughly a 25,000 gallon pool that we do use.

You may want to add a guard to prevent water from the pool from getting into the "pond." With all the cheimcals that go in pools, I can't imagine it would do the fish much good even in small amounts.

[Adrian]

The pool is lower than the jacuzzi, so no water contamination can occur. Completely two different systems.

Think feeder goldfish will be alright to cycle this thing???

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

I woudl expect. Are you planning to keep them? If not then I'd encourage a fishless cycle.

[Fishguy2727]

You can probably just start with a few small goldfish you plan on keeping. Any idea of how many gallons that thing holds?

[Rue]

Comets will coexist just fine with koi...if you do decide to cyle with comets, just plan to include them in your stocking...no need to ever get rid of them...

You could also go with just comets...they come in different colours as well...they're beautiful fish in their own right...

But for some reason we've gotten into the habit of thinking of them as 'disposable'...

They are excellent, hardy, pond fish...

[cocoa_pleco]

ditto, feeders come in lots of colors. i used to keep them as pets, and they came in orange, silver, white, orange/white, etc. fullgrown theyre awesome

[hockeyref88]

you would need to totally change the filter system to be able to house fish successfullly.

[Radio KJ]

Regarding the stocking question, I'm not sure where you'd find Koi. As far as my own store, I haven't found any suppliers other than for show-quality fish, and those usually retail no less than $3000 (in most cases up to $15000). I'm still looking for a much cheaper breeder so I can perhaps bring a few in.

On the other hand, there are any number of other goldfish that you could try: Orandas, Moors, Ranchu, Pearlscales, Shubunkins, Lionheads... These ones usually retail between $7-30 around here depending on the size. The only thing I've heard is that round-bodied golds shouldn't be mixed with flat-bodied, and I forgot to ask why that is.

Or you could see if a store will order you 5000 Danios. :hmm3grin2orange:

[Levi]

too small for koi

[Fishguy2727]

Platies make good warm pond options.

Wild type bodied goldfish are faster and can easily out-compete round-bodied goldfish.

[Adrian]

See, that's my dilemna. Florida is warm, but during the winter months, we do get a few days where we get frost. Mind you its not a deep frost, but that would drive the temp down on the pond.

I need to know what fish could withstand those temps. I am thinking either koi, or shubukins, as they are nicely colored, and don't get up to 3 feet in length.

[Billythefish]

Hay my dad has a pond and hes got ghost carp gold fish coy carp and shubunking that are fine in all temp' and we live in england! As long as you buy your fish small Size dont matter my dads fish never out grown the pond

[Levi]

size doesn't matter?

why don't we all put a common pleco in a fishbowl then

[Billythefish]

size doesn't matter?

why don't we all put a common pleco in a fishbowl then
Hmm im just giving my point of view that my dads fish have never out grown the pond he has in 15 years of having it. If you dont have a good idea the to help then keep your gob shut!

[angelcakes]

Hay my dad has a pond and hes got ghost carp gold fish coy carp and shubunking that are fine in all temp' and we live in england! As long as you buy your fish small Size dont matter my dads fish never out grown the pond
same as, we have 6 koi and a shubumbkin,they survive the winter here!!:14:

[Fishguy2727]

Just because they are stunted does't mean it's a good idea to repeat.

Koi will outgrow it since they can hit 24-36".

Stick with varieties of goldfish. You can do either round-bodied (fantails, moors, etc.) or long-bodied (shubunkins, sarassas, comets, etc.).

[DragonGoby]

Just my (canadian) two cents but:
Why don't you see what kind of fish are living naturally in the stream and pond in Florida, and see if you can find some in a LFS?
sometimes there's really gorgeous fish, that we just don't know...
Sasquatch has a book on all the fish living in north america, perhaps you can ask him for some clue?

i know it doesn't help very much, but I don't know a lot about "natural" fish (I don't know the real term in english, sorry).

[Fishguy2727]

In most places LFSs are not allowed to sell native species, otherwise people would go out and take them all out of nature and sell them to the LFS.

[DragonGoby]

Owwwww.... Ok, make sense...
Sorry, that was the only idea I have....

Isn't there some minnow that grow large and can support cold and warm?

[Rue]

While it's true that koi can grow to 3'...that is a very very RARE occurance, most do not have the genetics to attain that size...not to mention it takes years to get there...

A light Florida frost will not hurt any of the ornamental carp - so I doubt you have to worry there.

In our neck of the woods, koi sell for $20-30. These are not show koi, just your typical pond koi.

You shouldn't mix single-tailed carp with double-tailed carp because the single-tailed carp:

1. Are larger
2. Are faster
3. Are more aggressive, esp. at feeding time.

Having said that, I do know of people who keep them together successfully, however, I wouldn't risk it.

If you're dead set on koi, I would try them! Try 3 to start with...see how it goes. I know one pond ~ your size that holds 6 and they are doing well (25-30 years old now - no obvious stunting (proportion wise) - averaging 18-20" from what I remember).

Otherwise, stick with the comets (or the colour variations) - as I've said, they're beautiful fish in their own right. Totally underappreciated.

[Rue]

Here's some good info. - from Texas! It suggests the larger size (which is better of course! I'm not advocating keeping koi in suboptimal conditions - just saying a smaller pond can work if you keep it clean).

http://www.texaskoi.com/Articles/pond_building_101-Part%201.htm

[Tooch]

Why would a tank that's 8' wide x 8' long not be large enough to keep a couple fish that might grow to 3' max? 1400 gallons seems like pleanty of room to me... If they got to that size, it would take years upon years to reach.

As far as frost, koi/goldfish would be fine. We can keep them up here in Pittsburgh. Even if the top of the pond freezes, they still live!

[Adrian]

I think I have made a decision. I am going to treat this tank, 8 feet by 8 feet, by 3 feet, as I would a normal aquarium, just on a larger scale. I think butterfly koi will work well with this.

I need to find another fish to go with them, to keep the mosquito population at bay. Not sure of any fish that can withstand the cooler temps. Perhaps the florida flagfish.

I may have to do some modifying to the filtration system, but not a whole lot. Getting the good bacteria in there will be the first step.

I am going to outline the outside with rocks, with filled mortar. So they don't move around.

I will keep you all updated to my success, failures as I make this.

[Tooch]

Good luck, I'm rootin for the project! Keep the pictures of the build coming! :19:

I've heard of people keeping Pleco's in their outdoor pond. The requirements I've heard on that is that it does not drop below 55 at night. I guess that doesn't help because there is no frost at 55!

[Fishguy2727]

Rosey reds are just a color morph of the fathead minnow and should work well.

I never saw the dimensions or volume listed. In general, many fish that can get large but do so rarely are not kept in large enough setups to allow them to get to their full potential. Like when oscars (which CAN hit 15-18" and more) are kept in 55s. That may be why so few reach their full potential.

[Rue]

All carp eat mosquitos...you don't need to add anything else for that...

[Adrian]

All carp eat mosquitos...you don't need to add anything else for that...

Thanks Rue, that solves that question, though I don't think I will have to worry to much as the "pond" is within a screened house, as is the pool. So very few bugs actually make it in. Unless one of the kids leaves the door open, most of the bugs are kept outside.

When buying plants....do they come in pots? I am thinking of varies different lillies, as they are gorgeous. Will they be enough? Or do I need more plants?

Hmmm, wonder how much co2 I will need to get those to grow nicely...yikes, forgot about that aspect.

[Fishguy2727]

They will use CO2 from the air.

[Rue]

...now I'm wondering if will get enough light...

[Adrian]

I would have to say that it would get at least 6 to 8 hours of sunlight.

[Fishguy2727]

Looks like the screen does not inhibit light penetration.

Any chance of removing the rail? If not you could use it to grow a vining plant on, maybe attach some lattice to it to hide it. May also want to paint it.

[Tam18993]

Wow that will be a really cool pond
Carnt help you much as i am only learning too
Good luck with though
and you should put some pics up when you have finished it all
:19:

xx
:goldfish:

[troy]

Old thread!