arowana food

[cocoa_pleco]

what do these guys eat? ive never had one. aquagiant has 8" ones for $50. once i get the 650g up one is a must.

[OscarFan]

Probably small kids. They Prefer Live foods Worms Frogs fish crickets and such.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

Mostly high protein foods like feeder fish, crickets and the like. Whatever you decided to feed it, be sure it stays floating long enough for the fish to get it. Sinking food can lead to "drop-eye" in arowanas.

[sailor]

NLS makes a Extra Large Fish Formula7.5mm floating pellet


http://www.cichlid-food-canada.com/images/food16.gif

[Tooch]

Probably small kids.



LOL you took the words right outta my mouth!

[Drumachine09]

What are the dimensions of the 650?

[cocoa_pleco]

100"x42"x33"

i dont use feeders so that NLS is the best bet

[Fishguy2727]

NLS definitely. Once it gets to be a monster it may ignore the relatively small pellets (to a 3.5' arowana even the big ones are small). So worst case it stops taking them (hopefully not) and you will need to try stuff from the seafood section of the grovery store.

There is a lot of debate about the cause(s) of dropeye. I am not so sure that it is diet, or activity below them. There is not a lot of facts about the cases to put together much of anything.

[Red]

I have heard you could feed it birds...
Not true?

[jbeining75]

I'd go with the nls xtra large pellets and some shrimp every once in awhile.... Feeders are not the best as they have barely any nutritional value to them and will cause aggression problems with the fish... Try some worms maybe like bloodworms... I'd imagine he would chomp down some mill worms also... Crickets....

[Fishguy2727]

I would keep him on nothing but the NLS as long as you can. If you offer anything else he may figure out that there are bigger foods, I would not tempt him with that idea.

[hockeyref88]

I had one of these years ago. When I got him he was the size of a half a pencil. With in 2 years he grew to about 28" long and had scales the size of silver dollars. He ended up knocking the whole top off my aquarium and I found him hard as a rock laying on the floor, I only had luck feeding him live food. They get huge fast.

[cocoa_pleco]

i wish i had the 650g up before, 2 weeks ago i found someone selling a 24" silver arowana for $100

[hockeyref88]

If you buy one small they grow fast. Mine wouldn't touch anything but live food-feeders. They grow real fast, Great fish though.

[Fishguy2727]

Last year the National Zoo had 6 at about 10-12". Now they have 2 at 24-30".

[donvichu]

NLS definitely. Once it gets to be a monster it may ignore the relatively small pellets (to a 3.5' arowana even the big ones are small). So worst case it stops taking them (hopefully not) and you will need to try stuff from the seafood section of the grovery store.

There is a lot of debate about the cause(s) of dropeye. I am not so sure that it is diet, or activity below them. There is not a lot of facts about the cases to put together much of anything.


The drop eye happens if the fish tries to look at its own reflection in a plain tank with no fill ins at the bottom and also if you feed too much shrimp it tends to look down more to capture its prey,just make sure it doesnt have to look down too much and make sure the base of the tank has some fillers like sand or smooth pebbles

[Fishguy2727]

There is no reflection on the inside of the tank when looking from the inside. Look down from above and you can see through the bottom. The mirror effect on the side perpendicular to the side you are looking in from is an optical illusion because of the angle you are looking in at.

There are some theories as to the cause of dropeye. Many believe it is dietary, others believe it is because the fish is looking down into the water a lot because there is nothing happening above them. There is not much support for either of these so it is hard to say which if either is more likely.

[Demjor19]

i got my silver aro 02/09/07 when it was 1.5" long (lost its yolk sac days before purchase) today she is right around 15-16 inches. mine loves raw shrimp and omega one pellets.

my opinion on the drop eye issue is that it's caused by the fish jumping and slamming into the tops. mine had no DE until it reached 12-13 inches and one day it hit the lids really hard, leaving a big gash in it's head. from that day on her right eye (the side she hit) started pointing downward. her left eye is perfect and i have never noticed a mark on that side of her head. anyone who has ever owned one of these fish will understand how jumpy these fish really are. which brings me to my next point...KEEP YOUR TANK LIDS WEIGHTED DOWN!!! these fish do jump and will knock a normal lid off...this is the leading cause of premature arowana deaths.

[Fishguy2727]

That may be one cause (this may be like HLLE where there is a list of causes), but I have seen some kept in open-topped lagoon style setups at zoos/aquariums that have dropeye.

Me and my cousin thought of another possibility yesterday. Ever had your eyes 2" from fluorescent lights all the time? That may cause it too.

I think this is like HLLE/HITH where it is not understood and since people seem to want things as simple as possible, even if they are not, they will ignore any possibility that has a single exception. So it may have five different causes that all cause dropeye, but no one will acknowledge that there may be more than one cause. That seems to be the case with things with so many causes and end up causing controversy like this.

[Demjor19]

That may be one cause (this may be like HLLE where there is a list of causes), but I have seen some kept in open-topped lagoon style setups at zoos/aquariums that have dropeye.

Me and my cousin thought of another possibility yesterday. Ever had your eyes 2" from fluorescent lights all the time? That may cause it too.

I think this is like HLLE/HITH where it is not understood and since people seem to want things as simple as possible, even if they are not, they will ignore any possibility that has a single exception. So it may have five different causes that all cause dropeye, but no one will acknowledge that there may be more than one cause. That seems to be the case with things with so many causes and end up causing controversy like this.

i could agree with there being more than one cause for DE. no matter how well you think you have it figured out, there is always the exception to the rule...that discredits your theory.

a quick thought on the aros at the zoo/aquariums...could they have possibly been donated by hobbyists that could no longer house them? maybe they already had the DE when the zoo aquired them?

[Fishguy2727]

Not the ones at the National Zoo's Amazonia stingray lagoon exhibit. They were in there since 10-12" and by 24-30" (about a year later) the two left from the original six both had it. Others examples yes, could have been doomed donations.

[Demjor19]

Not the ones at the National Zoo's Amazonia stingray lagoon exhibit. They were in there since 10-12" and by 24-30" (about a year later) the two left from the original six both had it. Others examples yes, could have been doomed donations.

i'm assuming they didnt have drop eye when they were introduced to the display? being introduced at 10-12 inches they still could have come from a pet shop or home aquariast. on another forum a while back, we were trying to find out if silver aros could get DE in the wild, but we were unable to find any solid info on that topic. it's probably as we agreed on earlier...multiple causes.

[Fishguy2727]

They were fine when they were small.

I think one major thing could be that in the wild so many things are going on above them, including a lot of what they eat. In captivity there is nothing. Even at the zoo there are things above them, but nothing they could feed on, all the action is under them. No reason at all to keep looking up.

I can't think of any biological reason for diet to affect it.

In your case it seems the injury did it, but with other cases where that doesn't happen but they still get it it seems to not be a major issue.

[donvichu]

hi guys i have a 6 inch pearl arowana,I feed him feeder fishes and freeze dried shrimps,somehow he throws out the dried shrimps,but he likes it a lot and eats it.he throws it out almost hours after eating it.could anyone pls suggest

[Demjor19]

They were fine when they were small.

I think one major thing could be that in the wild so many things are going on above them, including a lot of what they eat. In captivity there is nothing. Even at the zoo there are things above them, but nothing they could feed on, all the action is under them. No reason at all to keep looking up.

I can't think of any biological reason for diet to affect it.

In your case it seems the injury did it, but with other cases where that doesn't happen but they still get it it seems to not be a major issue.

that is a strong possibility as well. since they are known in the wild to actually take birds and insects out of flight. i'm not exactly sure how this would affect their eyes, but i'm sure it could.

[Fishguy2727]

Try not feeding the dried shrimp. The best thing for it would be New Life Spectrum pellets exclusively. The live fish can introduce all sorts of pathogens, increase aggression, and are not nutritionally complete and balanced.

[donvichu]

Try not feeding the dried shrimp. The best thing for it would be New Life Spectrum pellets exclusively. The live fish can introduce all sorts of pathogens, increase aggression, and are not nutritionally complete and balanced.


Thanks a lot,I'll have to hunt for these pellets now cos most arowana owners feed fishes and dried shrimps here so its available in ample,am trying to get some small centipedes,crickets and live freshwater shrimps.:11:

[Demjor19]

Thanks a lot,I'll have to hunt for these pellets now cos most arowana owners feed fishes and dried shrimps here so its available in ample,am trying to get some small centipedes,crickets and live freshwater shrimps.:11:

also try raw shrimp. my aro loves them. no matter what you try feeding your fish, it will take some work since it was fed live foods.

[donvichu]

also try raw shrimp. my aro loves them. no matter what you try feeding your fish, it will take some work since it was fed live foods.


Cool,thanks a lot again.But this little fella seems very happy when the aquarium light is on,when light is switched off he becomes a little sluggish,even when there is ample day light around.By the way his name is draco.:19:

[Fishguy2727]

Most arowanas are happy to take prepared foods, at least NLS. All of them that we get in at my work are not offered anything else and take it without problems. The other one that is good to get them off live and onto pellets is Hikari Food Sticks with the arowana on the package. Once they are on that you can switch to other things.

[donvichu]

I feed my draco(jardini)(5.5") thrice a day with 3 dried shrimps or 2 fishes per meal,sometimes he's not eating it,am i over feeding him or should i feed him once a day?

[Fishguy2727]

Can you get any high quality foods for him? New Life Spectrum would be ideal, but Hikari Food Sticks or high quality cichlid pellets could work too.

He may just be full from the last meal sometimes. You can skip meals if he does not seem like he is very hungry.

[donvichu]

I also buy shrimp from fish market,fresh one,clip the head and tail and feed it with scales,thanks for your suggestion,i dont get crickets and live shrimps here,also am reducing the feeder fishes to get him of it

[Demjor19]

I also buy shrimp from fish market,fresh one,clip the head and tail and feed it with scales,thanks for your suggestion,i dont get crickets and live shrimps here,also am reducing the feeder fishes to get him of it

that's how i feed my aro her shrimp. i remove the tail to help eliminate the possibility for an obstruction and she will eat about 3-4 whole shrimp every evening. the carotenoids in the shell really help bring out the red and orange coloration in the fish.

[donvichu]

that's how i feed my aro her shrimp. i remove the tail to help eliminate the possibility for an obstruction and she will eat about 3-4 whole shrimp every evening. the carotenoids in the shell really help bring out the red and orange coloration in the fish.


how big is your arowana,which breed?just bought arowana pellets,its about size of groundnuts,it comprises of (fish meal,shrimp meal,wheat gluten,soybean torula,dried yeast,fish oils,enzymes,licorice root powder,vitamins and minerals) the composition is as follows

min crude protein - 32%
min crude fiber - 8%
min crude fat - 5%
max moisture - 8%
min vitamins - 450 mg/kg

[Fishguy2727]

What brand is that?

[donvichu]

What brand is that?


super plus Arowana,its being manufactured in munich germany.I need to train draco on this food.it might take a day or two

[Demjor19]

how big is your arowana,which breed?just bought arowana pellets,its about size of groundnuts,it comprises of (fish meal,shrimp meal,wheat gluten,soybean torula,dried yeast,fish oils,enzymes,licorice root powder,vitamins and minerals) the composition is as follows

min crude protein - 32%
min crude fiber - 8%
min crude fat - 5%
max moisture - 8%
min vitamins - 450 mg/kg

mine is between the 16-17 inch mark right now. Omega One has the best ingredients that i have found in a high production food so far. you may want to look into that brand. i have had great results feeding it to my fish.

[donvichu]

mine is between the 16-17 inch mark right now. Omega One has the best ingredients that i have found in a high production food so far. you may want to look into that brand. i have had great results feeding it to my fish.


the problem here is most people feed fishes here,so you dont get pellets in those many places,am searching for a better brand,probably will source somehow:c11:

[Demjor19]

the problem here is most people feed fishes here,so you dont get pellets in those many places,am searching for a better brand,probably will source somehow:c11:

what about ordering online?

mine is a Silver Arowana by the way...

[Fishguy2727]

Keep an eye out for NLS too, that may be an option over there or online too.

[Demjor19]

Keep an eye out for NLS too, that may be an option over there or online too.

NLS..New life spectrum? i'll have to try that sometime too. Who carries it?

[cocoa_pleco]

NLS..New life spectrum? i'll have to try that sometime too. Who carries it?

www.bigalsonline.com

[donvichu]

i'll try ordering it online,got one 3.5 inch pleco as tank mate for my draco.how big is your silver arowana?

[donvichu]

hey guys also watch my draco's video in the following link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyUt4FUXzqM :c7:

[Demjor19]

i'll try ordering it online,got one 3.5 inch pleco as tank mate for my draco.how big is your silver arowana?

My silver aro is16-17 inches.

nice little jardini in the video too! i would advize against anymore tankmates though. Once Jardini's hit around the 10-12 inch mark they usually become VERY aggressive...killing just about anything in the tank. the pleco may be ok though.

[donvichu]

My silver aro is16-17 inches.

nice little jardini in the video too! i would advize against anymore tankmates though. Once Jardini's hit around the 10-12 inch mark they usually become VERY aggressive...killing just about anything in the tank. the pleco may be ok though.


Thank you,I put in a pleco so he would clean up the tank of algae,also pleco's are not territorial until they reach a foot mark,what size did you buy your silver arowana,they grow really big,what is your tank dimension?could you post a video or photo of your aquarium? Also which feed from NLS? is it All purpose 1mm sinking or EXlg.fish 7.5 floating or which one should i buy?

[Halelorf]

All of the NLS foods are pretty much the same. The only difference is the size of the pellet. I would try to get the biggest one you can find, which would probably be the XL fish pellet.

[donvichu]

All of the NLS foods are pretty much the same. The only difference is the size of the pellet. I would try to get the biggest one you can find, which would probably be the XL fish pellet.

Hmmm I'll keep that in mind and order it online.thnks.what arowana do you have and how big is it?have any tank mates?

[Demjor19]

Thank you,I put in a pleco so he would clean up the tank of algae,also pleco's are not territorial until they reach a foot mark,what size did you buy your silver arowana,they grow really big,what is your tank dimension?could you post a video or photo of your aquarium? Also which feed from NLS? is it All purpose 1mm sinking or EXlg.fish 7.5 floating or which one should i buy?

it's not the pleco you will have to worry about...i was talking about the Jardini becomming aggressive. they are notorious for this.

i bought my arowana at 1.5" in February of 2007. I am very well aware of their huge size! these pics are about 2 months old...she has grown another inch or two since then. :c3:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/KaraJ0/Monster%20Fish/DSCN6561.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t244/KaraJ0/Monster%20Fish/Nani.jpg

[donvichu]

[QUOTE=Demjor19]it's not the pleco you will have to worry about...i was talking about the Jardini becomming aggressive. they are notorious for this.

i bought my arowana at 1.5" in February of 2007. I am very well aware of their huge size! these pics are about 2 months old...she has grown another inch or two since then. :c3:




She looks awesome and sexy,cool pic

[donvichu]

[QUOTE=Demjor19]it's not the pleco you will have to worry about...i was talking about the Jardini becomming aggressive. they are notorious for this.

i bought my arowana at 1.5" in February of 2007. I am very well aware of their huge size! these pics are about 2 months old...she has grown another inch or two since then. :c3:

QUOTE]

Is she having a partial drop eye?sorry if am wrong

[Demjor19]

[quote=Demjor19]it's not the pleco you will have to worry about...i was talking about the Jardini becomming aggressive. they are notorious for this.

i bought my arowana at 1.5" in February of 2007. I am very well aware of their huge size! these pics are about 2 months old...she has grown another inch or two since then. :c3:




She looks awesome and sexy,cool pic

thanks!


[quote=Demjor19]it's not the pleco you will have to worry about...i was talking about the Jardini becomming aggressive. they are notorious for this.

i bought my arowana at 1.5" in February of 2007. I am very well aware of their huge size! these pics are about 2 months old...she has grown another inch or two since then. :c3:

QUOTE]

Is she having a partial drop eye?sorry if am wrong

Yes, she does have DE in her right eye. she started to develope it at around 12-13 inches.

[donvichu]

[quote=donvichu]

thanks!

[quote=donvichu]

Yes, she does have DE in her right eye. she started to develope it at around 12-13 inches.


sorry to hear that man,she is still sexy,did you keep your aquarium base plain or feed too much botttom feeders,want to know how they develop DE

[Fishguy2727]

There is no single known cause of dropeye.

[Demjor19]

[quote=Demjor19][quote=donvichu]

thanks!




sorry to hear that man,she is still sexy,did you keep your aquarium base plain or feed too much botttom feeders,want to know how they develop DE

as fishguy said...there really isnt one single known cause for DE. i started to notice hers after she slammed her head off of the hood. i have a strong suspicion that it played a role in her getting DE. It doesnt really bother me much, since just about every silver arowana in captivity (w/ a few exceptions) eventually gets it. it's just one of those things you learn to accept.

[donvichu]

[quote=donvichu][quote=Demjor19]

as fishguy said...there really isnt one single known cause for DE. i started to notice hers after she slammed her head off of the hood. i have a strong suspicion that it played a role in her getting DE. It doesnt really bother me much, since just about every silver arowana in captivity (w/ a few exceptions) eventually gets it. it's just one of those things you learn to accept.


oh,but Doesnt plain reflective bottom or feeding sinking food especially live shrimp cause DE?

[Demjor19]

[quote=Demjor19][quote=donvichu]


oh,but Doesnt plain reflective bottom or feeding sinking food especially live shrimp cause DE?

people say that, but i have never seen any proof or even heard a valid arguement supporting that.

[Fishguy2727]

I believe that since in captivity, in almost all situations, there it NOTHING go on above them that their attention, and eventually eyes, shift down. In the wild they also/mainly hunt for stuff in the branchs above the water, keeping their attention upward, and hypothetically their eyes will remain normal.

My cousin also pointed out that in addition, in most captive setups they are in tanks with bright fluorescent lights only a couple inches away from their eyes. Keep your eyes that close to fluorescent lighting all the time and it is very possible things will go bad.

[Demjor19]

I believe that since in captivity, in almost all situations, there it NOTHING go on above them that their attention, and eventually eyes, shift down. In the wild they also/mainly hunt for stuff in the branchs above the water, keeping their attention upward, and hypothetically their eyes will remain normal.

My cousin also pointed out that in addition, in most captive setups they are in tanks with bright fluorescent lights only a couple inches away from their eyes. Keep your eyes that close to fluorescent lighting all the time and it is very possible things will go bad.

then why dont all fish species get Drop Eye?

i can see where you are coming from in your first statement though. these fish do hunt many things above the water and if they have nothing to focus on they may lose the muscles that hold their eyes in the upright position. my only arguement with that would be...then why is it often times only in one eye?

[Fishguy2727]

Because not all fish spend all their time right at the water's surface. Arowanas are effectively always at the surface, eyes just inches from the lights. Other fish swim throughout the tank, almost always deeper in the water column and in and out of all the decor. So they do not have the same problem. I think it is mainly the top reason (no activity above them) in addition to the lighting.

[donvichu]

then why dont all fish species get Drop Eye?

i can see where you are coming from in your first statement though. these fish do hunt many things above the water and if they have nothing to focus on they may lose the muscles that hold their eyes in the upright position. my only arguement with that would be...then why is it often times only in one eye?


In your case it could probably because she banged herself on the roof.but lights above them(specially designed aquarium lights whuch emit less heat) will actually keep their attention on the top,draco somehow feels uncomfortable and swims at the middle and lower part of aquarium,but when the light is on he is very active and swims on top half of the tank,I dont know if this is the same case with other fishes also

[donvichu]

Also I have seen some people use some floating objects like balls little bigger so they cannot swallow it,it is believed that these objects also keep their attention to the top of the aquarium.

[Demjor19]

Because not all fish spend all their time right at the water's surface. Arowanas are effectively always at the surface, eyes just inches from the lights. Other fish swim throughout the tank, almost always deeper in the water column and in and out of all the decor. So they do not have the same problem. I think it is mainly the top reason (no activity above them) in addition to the lighting.

i also keep gar and some of them stay at the waters surface just as much as my Aro...in fact i often times see my Arowana in the mid to lower levels of the water column. i'm not disagreeing with you, but i'm definitely not completely sold on the idea. there is just no solid evidence pointing towards that being the cause.

Another view on the topic is...why is the silver arowana the most likely/prone to develope DE out of all the arowana species? you'll hardly ever hear of a black aro, asian aro, jardini, or leichardti getting DE. they are all also primarily top dwelling fish and share similar hunting strategies.

[Fishguy2727]

The light simply being there won't keep their attention up there. That is done with things, generally moving animals they like to hunt.

Many fish that are usually all over the tank, or even in the upper area, will sleep on or near the bottom. In the wild, at night, arowanas may have trouble seeing animals in the trees or other predators in the air or water, so no need to be up there when you are getting no benefit and may be eaten.

[donvichu]

i also keep gar and some of them stay at the waters surface just as much as my Aro...in fact i often times see my Arowana in the mid to lower levels of the water column. i'm not disagreeing with you, but i'm definitely not completely sold on the idea. there is just no solid evidence pointing towards that being the cause.

Another view on the topic is...why is the silver arowana the most likely/prone to develope DE out of all the arowana species? you'll hardly ever hear of a black aro, asian aro, jardini, or leichardti getting DE. they are all also primarily top dwelling fish and share similar hunting strategies.


In your case it certainly is due to hitting himself on cover,the reason as to why silver arowana especially on one eye,cos silver arowana are known to jump a lot than the other australian or asian arowanas,I have seen so many cases where they hit their eye and it starts bulging right after it,99% its a silver arowana,In this case the DE is permenant and cant be cured,but in my freinds case he has a pearl too but put him in a plain bottom tank,the pearl started developing DE in both the eyes,so he filled the bottom with a thin layer of dark coloured gravel and he put one red ball to float,it has now become the pearls play toy and you wouldnt believe his DE is gone,but it did take 6 months for this to happen

[donvichu]

And also in silver arowanas they get scared very easily and jump,also they are very good jumpers and even known to throw an entire cover of the tank or even smash right through the glass covers,so the impact causes de for sure

[Demjor19]

And also in silver arowanas they get scared very easily and jump,also they are very good jumpers and even known to throw an entire cover of the tank or even smash right through the glass covers,so the impact causes de for sure

this is exactly my point. silver aros are notoriously one of the most skittish and jumpy fish in the hobby. constanly slamming your head against the top of the tank has to have a significant impact on the DE issue.

[donvichu]

No conclusive cause has been found so far for DE.

[Fishguy2727]

By plain bottom do you mean bare bottom? What did the bare bottom tank have to do with it?

[Demjor19]

the main thing i would like to know is...why does it often times only occur in one eye? my "head hitting" theory could explain this...none of the other theories seem to cover or explain it.

[donvichu]

Yes in silver arowanas it is mostly due to injuries like yours,that is why DE is one sided and this cannot be cured and it is permenant

[donvichu]

yes I meant bare bottom,In acrylic tanks bare bottoms are reflective and note the senses and vision of an arowana is hightened several times than a human's vision,once bare bottom was taken care of and the attention was diverted by a floating red ball the DE dissappeared in 6-7 months.

[donvichu]

I have bought AQUAFIN Arowana fish food,small red coloured sticks that float,check it out at http://www.kwzone.com/products/links/aquafin.htm its last but one in the tin says Aquafin Arowana food

Ingredients are

high grade fish meal,growth enzymes,soya meal, wheat germ,flour,prawn meal,dried yeast,fish oil,cereals,lecithin,natural astaxanthin,spirulina,multivitamins and trace elements.

[Fishguy2727]

The panels on a tank are not reflective unless they have a mirror finish. When we look into them we look from the outside at an angle to the sides or bottom. Because we look from the outside this creates the optical illusion of a mirror. Look from the top of said tank or from one side or the other and you will see what the fish does, right through those panels. So unless there are mice running around in the stand of the tank which would get an arowana's attention, bare bottom should not be an issue.

[Demjor19]

Yes in silver arowanas it is mostly due to injuries like yours,that is why DE is one sided and this cannot be cured and it is permenant

DE has been corrected in the past by placing the aro in a pond...after a while the Dropped eye righted itself. there is also a surgery that can be done to correct it as well, but that is out of the question for most people.

i also agree with fishguy...barebottom tanks do not have a reflection, unless the bottom is mirrored. the reflection we see is indeed an optical illusion.

[donvichu]

But also understand that the vision we have and that of a fish are totally different,fishes have a protective translucent membrane over their eye so that plays a part of another mirror,suppose say you look at the bottom through 2 layers of mirror,that does cause illusion,its the same case here too.

[donvichu]

and mind this almost transparent layer on the fishes eye is concave and it does produce a lot of reflection and refraction that a normal human eye doesnt.thats the only way a bare bottom tank case can be explained,mind a bare bottom does cause a DE,nothing in this world cannot be explained,there is an action for every reaction and for DE in a bare bottom tank its the membrane,mind how many times have you seen a fish swim around the sides of your aquarium,I mean all fishes,they dance around the sides of the aquarium against their own reflection,for us it is an illusion from outside the tank,but for them it is a reflection from inside itself due to their membrane,the reason other fishes do not get an DE is cos they cannot rotate their eye like Arowana's do,their vision is always sideways and if they have to look at the bottom they have to move their entire body unlike an arowana who can move his eyes in all four directions and does not have a nessecity to move himself to look in a certain direction unlike other fishes,so if an arowana wants to look down he can move his glance downwards,and a bare bottom and the membrane plays the game.Just do the math here and it will all fit in:19:

[donvichu]

and please mind that the membrane is not a flat lens like in a video cam,it is concave,it just follows the eyes shape,so even if you do put in a cam underwater and eventhough the lens in the cam form a second layer of glass it still aint the fishes eye with two layers of concave lens on it's original eye and the other the concave membrane,try putting 2 concave lens one over the other and looking through it with the third flat lens of your eye.

[donvichu]

What do you guys suggest about me making an article about this and submitting it online?

[donvichu]

DE has been corrected in the past by placing the aro in a pond...after a while the Dropped eye righted itself. there is also a surgery that can be done to correct it as well, but that is out of the question for most people.

i also agree with fishguy...barebottom tanks do not have a reflection, unless the bottom is mirrored. the reflection we see is indeed an optical illusion.


also why do you think that a pond has corrected the DE Dem?any reason for reflection from bottom or sides in either a pond or natural habitat?Why do you think DE only in captive fishes in aquarium?Ever heard of DE in fishes in ponds that are in farms or in their natural habitat except for fishes in captive?

[donvichu]

So the 2 reasons for DE in Arowanas in captive is

1) Injuries due to banging themselves and
2) Due to bare bottom tanks

[donvichu]

Also most experiments on reflection and refraction in physics is using concave and convex lenses simultaneously

[donvichu]

Also the reason I have found in all the blogs in arowana says that when you look directly from top you see no reflection or a cam inside water doesnot provide reflection,that is true for us not for the Arowanas or even other fishes infact

[donvichu]

Am sorry but it is convex for reflection and concave for refraction,convex bulges outside in the centre so fishes have convex membrane

[Demjor19]

also why do you think that a pond has corrected the DE Dem?any reason for reflection from bottom or sides in either a pond or natural habitat?Why do you think DE only in captive fishes in aquarium?Ever heard of DE in fishes in ponds that are in farms or in their natural habitat except for fishes in captive?

ive personally known people who have put there aros w/ DE in a pond and it corrected itself over a period of time.

aside from that i have no idea what your other posts meant...

[Fishguy2727]

Where did you get information about their lenses and how they see?

All fish have different eyes to compensate for the distortion due to the different media they see through, which is water, not air like we see through.

Fish see through glass no problem. The ones that are swimming into it are not seeing their own reflection. Facts that support this:
1-if they saw their own reflection they wouldn't swim into it, but around it because they would think it was another fish
2-they react to activity outside of the tank
3-if they saw their own reflections then cichlids would always be challenging the glass, thinking it was another of the same species
4-ever seen an arowana swim up to the front of the tank when you walk up?

Other fish can move their eyes. They may not be as agile as arowanas' eyes, but can still move their eyes around.

Neither convex or concave lenses cause reflection or a mirror-effect.

Any membranes they may have will simply be to clarify otherwise distorted images.

MANY get dropeye in tanks with substrates that have not smashed their heads against hoods.

Pond cure?:
MUCH more activity above them, simulates their natural habitat of activity all around, not just below as in tanks.

No matter how comcave, convex, relfective the arowanas' eyes are: for their to be glare from the bottom that FLAT sheet of glass would have to be mirrored to get the light back up. Their eyes are not going to make the light reflect off of the bottom, that is all up to the glass, which does not cause a mirror-effect.

The lenses in our eyes are not flat, that wouldn't be a lens but a membrane. The lenses in our eyes are convex.

Why would they look into the relfection of light off of the bottom if they could see it? Because they enjoy looking into a glare?

[donvichu]

The membrane on fishes eyes are supposed to be water proof and they are like acrylic glasses,Then why dont you reason to Arowanas in bare bottom tanks and Arowanas being fed sinking food getting DE?why not for arowanas in pond and natural habitat,please understand that even in natural habitat there r distraction at the bottom,but in a smaller scale than a fish in captive.

[Fishguy2727]

That is the thing, when ALL the activity is below them, that may cause it. But when in ponds or in the wild when it is all around them, it does not have the same effect. It it one thing for activity to occur below them, it is another thing for the only activity they ever see to be below them.

Again, their eyes just make images properly visible for them, nothing else. They don't create reflections off of other objects.

[donvichu]

I guess the reason for DE in arowana is same like the big bang theory and will remain the same unless someone comes up with a solid reason with evidence.

[Fishguy2727]

There is strong reason to assume it is not hard to explain refractions of lenses in their eyes. Do you have any links that support what you are talking about?

If someone can actually isolate a nutrient to show that a lack of that nutrient causes it, that would prove that.

It could be some unknown virus.

It could have a lot of causes like HLLE.

[ILuvMyGoldBarb]

It could have a lot of causes like HLLE.

I don't know a lot about arowanas, but this seems to be the most plausible, and reasonable idea put out there yet. I have to agree that there could be many causes since there doesn't really seem to be a common factor in all the cases. Could it be activity below them? Possibly. Virus? Possibly. Injury? Possibly. Nutrient deficiency? Possibly. It really could be any one of those things that causes it.

[donvichu]

Hey guys could you help out in identifying the species of the eels in the picture?also will they make a good tankmate for arowana?they are currently 4 inches.I mean I know that eels are also carnivores and will devour on any fishes smaller in size and nocturnal and all,will el be a problem to arowana and vice versa?

[donvichu]

Also here are a few pics of one of draco's tank mate Pleco

[Fishguy2727]

Looks like an oddly patterned tiretrack. Definitely some sort of spiney eel. Most arowanas, at least as they get bigger, will bother many types of bottom feeders. If the tank is properly decorated (lots of hides for the eel) the eel has decent chances.

[Demjor19]

Looks like an oddly patterned tiretrack. Definitely some sort of spiney eel. Most arowanas, at least as they get bigger, will bother many types of bottom feeders. If the tank is properly decorated (lots of hides for the eel) the eel has decent chances.

a jardini is by far the worst aro as far as aggression goes. once they reach the 10-12 inch mark they get plain nasty! hope for the best!

[donvichu]

Thats the only decoration in the aquarium,will also be adding a drift wood in a week as it is still soaked in a tub of water,

[donvichu]

I can make out it is a spiny eel but dont know if it is tire track or spotted

[Fishguy2727]

I forgot this was a jardini, good luck with anything in there. If you like the other fish I would not house them with a jardini, I was thinking it was a silver.

[donvichu]

I forgot this was a jardini, good luck with anything in there. If you like the other fish I would not house them with a jardini, I was thinking it was a silver.


For the time being he is not aggressive,since I feed him on time He is not bothered about his pals(guess so :c2: ) in there,also both pleco and eels keep to bottom of the tank and eels especially stay hidden under gravel or inside the decoratuve house,and pleco as usual sucks on the plants inside and Draco doesnot venture in to that area,prabably I should wait till he grows another 4.5 " to see if he is really aggressive,

[donvichu]

Also I took him off feeding live food,He feeds only on dried shrimp,pellet sticks(which I have to stuff into the dried shrimp or beef heart) and beef heart

[Demjor19]

Also I took him off feeding live food,He feeds only on dried shrimp,pellet sticks(which I have to stuff into the dried shrimp or beef heart) and beef heart

it's good to hear you have him on a good diet, but this will have little to no effect on how aggressive he becomes...it's just part of their nature. they are awesome fish, but terrible community fish.

[Fishguy2727]

Live foods can increase aggression/prepared foods can reduce it. Obviously aggression level is there and in many cases there will no or very little difference. But in many cases the difference is significant. My best example is the common snapping turtle I used to have. He grew up with other turtles and fish and was only ever fed pellets. Even when twice as large as the second largest turtle and with fish he could have eaten no problem, he didn't. Then he would go nuts when pellets were offered, yet not nuts enough to accidentally bite another turtle. But being kept full is also very important. If I had left for two weeks without him being fed the results would most likely have been VERY bad for all other inhabitants.

[Demjor19]

Live foods can increase aggression/prepared foods can reduce it. Obviously aggression level is there and in many cases there will no or very little difference. But in many cases the difference is significant. My best example is the common snapping turtle I used to have. He grew up with other turtles and fish and was only ever fed pellets. Even when twice as large as the second largest turtle and with fish he could have eaten no problem, he didn't. Then he would go nuts when pellets were offered, yet not nuts enough to accidentally bite another turtle. But being kept full is also very important. If I had left for two weeks without him being fed the results would most likely have been VERY bad for all other inhabitants.

this is often times true, but some fish just have a deep seeded aggression. ive known plenty of people who fed there jars nothing but prepared foods and they were still very aggressive and unable to be kept with any tankmates. one of them did even kill a pleco.

[Fishguy2727]

Hence the sentence about how the first is not always true.

[donvichu]

Live foods can increase aggression/prepared foods can reduce it. Obviously aggression level is there and in many cases there will no or very little difference. But in many cases the difference is significant. My best example is the common snapping turtle I used to have. He grew up with other turtles and fish and was only ever fed pellets. Even when twice as large as the second largest turtle and with fish he could have eaten no problem, he didn't. Then he would go nuts when pellets were offered, yet not nuts enough to accidentally bite another turtle. But being kept full is also very important. If I had left for two weeks without him being fed the results would most likely have been VERY bad for all other inhabitants.

Let me hope that this sentence is true in my case:ezpi_wink1:

[donvichu]

Since these eels go in to hiding Am not able to find one eel in the tank this morning,hope something has not happened to him,Am hoping that he is probably hiding in that decorative house in the tank.God alone knows what happened in the night,Atleast till I find him

[donvichu]

Still draco is not eating pellets seperately,I have to stuff it in dried shrimp and he takes it,sometime he eats the shrimp and spits the pellet. :c2:

[donvichu]

Would a 5feet x 2feet x 2 feet suffice as he grows or should I go for 6 feet x 3 feet x 2 feet aquarium?:c2:

[Demjor19]

Would a 5feet x 2feet x 2 feet suffice as he grows or should I go for 6 feet x 3 feet x 2 feet aquarium?:c2:

a (5 x 2) would probably work, but i would rather see him go in the (6 x 3). i am planning either an (8 x 3) or an (8 x 4) foot tank for my silver, but they get much larger than the jardini.

[donvichu]

a (5 x 2) would probably work, but i would rather see him go in the (6 x 3). i am planning either an (8 x 3) or an (8 x 4) foot tank for my silver, but they get much larger than the jardini.

Very true Silver arowana grows almost to 3 to 3.5 foot in proper growing environment,a jardini's max is 2.5 foot

[donvichu]

8 x 4 foot tank with your silver will be amazing :27:

[donvichu]

One of my eel is still missing,not able to find him anywhere,just wondering he is too big for draco to swallow,if he is killed then there should be some trace,hope he is in hiding somewhere under gravel:c2:

[Fishguy2727]

As big as you can. It is not like you will regret giving him a better home.

Silvers can hit 1.2 meters, jardinis can hit 1 meter, (over 3'). This is off of fishbase.org, a VERY reliable resource for accurate information about actual maximum size, wild parameters, etc.

[Demjor19]

One of my eel is still missing,not able to find him anywhere,just wondering he is too big for draco to swallow,if he is killed then there should be some trace,hope he is in hiding somewhere under gravel:c2:

at that size i doubt the jar killed or ate it...look in the gravel and behind the tank. they can hide very well and are also great escape artists.

[donvichu]

I found him just now,just switched off all the lights in the house including the aquarium light and was watching the aquarium using cell phone light,he peeped out of the house,since I drop 3 small peices of beef heart in the night for these eels and pleco to feed on,I was monitoring the aquarium,once the light is off he peeps out,truly nocturnal :19: :19: :19: :19:

[donvichu]

As big as you can. It is not like you will regret giving him a better home.

Silvers can hit 1.2 meters, jardinis can hit 1 meter, (over 3'). This is off of fishbase.org, a VERY reliable resource for accurate information about actual maximum size, wild parameters, etc.


I would be happy if mine grew longer and lived its full life time of around 25 years :19: :c3:

[donvichu]

Also the DE is also known to be caused by feeding arowana high fat food especially live gold fishes.

[Fishguy2727]

Where did you find that?

Most feeder goldfish are underweight, underfed, and emaciated so they will have very little fat on and in them.

Also, if there is a higher occurance of dropeye in arowanas fed goldfish, it does not necessarily mean it is anything nutritional, it could still be because the activity and what they are hunting is always below them.

[Demjor19]

Also the DE is also known to be caused by feeding arowana high fat food especially live gold fishes.

i have also heard this, but it has no proof backing it up. My arowana has never eaten a feeder in it's life. mine has been raised on FD Krill, crickets, shrimp, pellets, and a small amount of chopped smelt. nothing too fatty there...

[donvichu]

Exactly every reason for DE has no proof,its all assumptions,even feeding too much live shrimps is known to cause DE cos of activity below them,when I fed my Draco with live shrimp today,the moment I dropped it in the shrimp was gone,He ate like 4 shrimps almost an inch long each

[Demjor19]

Exactly every reason for DE has no proof,its all assumptions,even feeding too much live shrimps is known to cause DE cos of activity below them,when I fed my Draco with live shrimp today,the moment I dropped it in the shrimp was gone,He ate like 4 shrimps almost an inch long each

when my aro slammed into the lid, it litteraly showed signs of DE the next day. The DE worstened with every following time it hit the lids hard. this is the best proof i have seen so far.

i was just on another forum the other day and a guy has a silver aro with
NO DE at 24" long. He said his is not jumpy and does not hit the tank hoods.

[donvichu]

when my aro slammed into the lid, it litteraly showed signs of DE the next day. The DE worstened with every following time it hit the lids hard. this is the best proof i have seen so far.

i was just on another forum the other day and a guy has a silver aro with
NO DE at 24" long. He said his is not jumpy and does not hit the tank hoods.

DE due to injury in silver is exception,but other reasons like bare bottom tank or diet or virus assumptions are still assumptions and has no solid proof to back it :c9:

[Fishguy2727]

Injury and activity only below them seem to be the most well supported.

[donvichu]

Very true :c12:

[donvichu]

If we breed Brine shrimps do they possess the same shell like fresh water shrimps when they are at .5mm size?is it nutritional enough to give arowana's scales the shine and colour?:confused:

[donvichu]

The following statement I took from AC's description on Silver arowana

"One condition that is often seen in Silver Arowana is called “Drop Eye”, where an eye appears to look downward. It seems this may be the result of over breeding at the breeders though it might also come from fatty tissues behind the eye. Less fat in their diet may help to minimizing or preventing this. "

&

"Goldfish might be suggested as a snack, however they should not make up a too large part of your Silver Arowana’s diet"

This is in the link

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/arowana/silver.php


so my theory of high fat food is also a cause for DE :c9:

[donvichu]

Though the Silver arowana cost lesser than its cousins from asia and australia it is the most difficult fish to maintain,as you need to do lots of research and have facilities to give him an aquarium atleast double his size better triple his size and he is the best known species to develop DE than his cousins,as per AC :c9:

[Fishguy2727]

That doesn't prove dropeye is caused by diet.

1-The thing about goldfish just says they should not be a snack, not why.

2-It says that dropeye is thought to be caused by (as in: 'one hypothesis that is out there is...') overbreeding and another hypothesis that is out there is fatty tissue behind the eye. We already knew too much fat was a hypothesis, so that is nothing new. It does not provide any support for either claim, just states that these two hypotheses are hypotheses. So there is no new information and far from any proof of either claim.

There are so many things that could cause this that a few experts leaning toward one idea does not do anything. It could be a trace element or micronutrient that when lacking causes a loss of control of eye muscles. It could be a virus or other pathogen.

It seems that slamming their heads is a very promising possibility for at least one cause. All other cases seem to have one thing in common, ALL activity is below them, if that's where everything was going on I would look down too.

[donvichu]

hmmmm..Very true

[tanks4thememories]

Personally I think there are two things we owe an Arowana if we decide to keep one:

1) Live food as often as possible (Not letting these guys hunt food is like getting a active dog to just sit in a 1 br appartmentand stare at tv)

2) Most importantly the tank space to turn around in a tank and swimaround a bit.

In return we get to watch one of the classiest most majestic preditory fish there are in action. There are more lethal fish, and more effective ones also. But there is a certain majesty to watching an Arowana do what they do "Stalk and eat live food."

Just my opinion but then im very fond of the Arowana...lol

[donvichu]

Personally I think there are two things we owe an Arowana if we decide to keep one:

1) Live food as often as possible (Not letting these guys hunt food is like getting a active dog to just sit in a 1 br appartmentand stare at tv)

2) Most importantly the tank space to turn around in a tank and swimaround a bit.

In return we get to watch one of the classiest most majestic preditory fish there are in action. There are more lethal fish, and more effective ones also. But there is a certain majesty to watching an Arowana do what they do "Stalk and eat live food."

Just my opinion but then im very fond of the Arowana...lol


very true...you are not the only one fond of arowana...I am crazy about arowana and always have felt the class about arowana among other predatory fishes...I have had oscar,piranha and flower horns....but nothing has the majestic looks and graceful movement like Arowana....My draco is my favourite(9.5 inches jardinii).....Hiis tank sprung a leak last night so the tank is being repaired now...wouldnt believe he actually broke 12 mm thick aquarium glass....a huge crack....upgrading to a 19mm thick glass 6 foot length and 2.5 foot width aquarium from his current 5 foot aquarium....

[tanks4thememories]

very true...you are not the only one fond of arowana...I am crazy about arowana and always have felt the class about arowana among other predatory fishes...I have had oscar,piranha and flower horns....but nothing has the majestic looks and graceful movement like Arowana....My draco is my favourite(9.5 inches jardinii).....Hiis tank sprung a leak last night so the tank is being repaired now...wouldnt believe he actually broke 12 mm thick aquarium glass....a huge crack....upgrading to a 19mm thick glass 6 foot length and 2.5 foot width aquarium from his current 5 foot aquarium....

He sounds like he is about the same age as JAWS - (My Jardini Aro) you have any pics?

[duce]

i agree, but people who own these fish should be responsible enough to provide adequote space for the fish not just for now but for the future because these fish get vvvvv big as we know.
But for some reason some bright spark in a lfs near me(which i considered to be good)are selling baby arowana .so u get some1 who buys the baby arowana and puts it in their 10 gal tank................
its insane i cant get my head round it????????????????/

[tanks4thememories]

i agree, but people who own these fish should be responsible enough to provide adequote space for the fish not just for now but for the future because these fish get vvvvv big as we know.
But for some reason some bright spark in a lfs near me(which i considered to be good)are selling baby arowana .so u get some1 who buys the baby arowana and puts it in their 10 gal tank................
its insane i cant get my head round it????????????????/

Assuming they are a person who appreciates & Respects aquatic creatures one of 2 things will happen when it starts to get big:

1) they sell it or give it away to a place or person who can maintain it properly.

2) they get a the "rig" that is adequate for thier growing pet.

In my mind if they do anything else they aren't fit to keep pets anyway so it doesn't matter if it is an arowana or a goldfish..lol:27: