I need some help with my new Tetra's.

[Xandict]

I recently bought 10 Cardinal Tetra's for my fiance. I have a 18 gallon tank and I read on this site they prefer 4.0-6.0 pH. I have it around 5.5 and we lost 2 yesterday, with no signs of any disease. Any help?

[travie]

What are the parameters? How long ago did you get them? Did you drastically change the pH with chemicals? Sorry about the questions, but they could explain the answer.

[Pr0eve]

yup, is it a new tank setup, IE did you buy the tank the same day you bought the fish?

I have Cardinal Tetra in my 29G with a PH 8.0, they are fairly hearty fish, you will not need to lower the PH for these fish..

[Xandict]

I bought the tank and had it up and running 3 days before I bought the fish. I've had them for about 3 days. The pH was at 7.0 when I put them in there and I lowered it about .5 a day which was what the acid buffer recommended

[Pr0eve]

well for one your tank was not cycled, and lowing the PH that fast can and will kill your fish, fish need a stable ph more so then a lower ph most of the time. there are some fish you'll have to keep the ph low for, but these are more advanced and delicate fish. Cardinal Tetra are labeled as a intermediate fish but they are really hearty at the same time. You should read up on how to cycle your tank, and get a API mater water test kit and watch your water lvl.

read this, since this is where your at, at the moment.

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5278

EDIT: I should add that a lot of us here do not promote using chemicals especially for lowering the PH, and if you do use chemicals to lower your PH it has to be done very slowly.

[Pr0eve]

also 6.4-6.8 ph is fine for Cardinal Tetra, if you are using a good buffer on the PH..

[travie]

What Pr0eve said.

[Xandict]

So what would you recommend to take care of the ammonia besides water changes?

[Pr0eve]

Feed your fish SPARINGLY and water changes, is the only way..

you may have to do 30% water changes every day, until the cycle in done.

Do not give up, fish keeping is well worth the fight...But it is a hobby that requires a lot of dedication

Also make sure that you condition the water by removing the chlorine, putting straight tap water into the tank will undo everything you’re trying to achieve by properly cycling your aquarium

sorry after thoughts..

[Xandict]

Make 50% water changes once a day or what would u suggest? Also, you said most members dont approve the use of chemicals to adjust pH, how else would you keep it in range? Oh, I forgot to mention along with the 8 Cardinals I have 2 live plants in the tank that are just started growing roots, and other fake plants.

[Pr0eve]

read that link I posted few post up. it will walk you thou it better then I can.

[Xandict]

Ok so I'm in the middle of water change (waiting for the new water to be room temp). How do you keep the pH between 6.4-6.8 without chemicals?

[Pr0eve]

Do NOT use pH Down or any product that just says it lowers pH. You need to look for an acid buffer product like Seachem Acid Buffer, which keeps the pH down by removing some of the water's ability to buffer itself back to alkaline. pH Down will drop pH temporarily, but it will keep rebounding until you add enough to finally overwhelm the innate buffering ability of the water. This holds especially true for hard water situations. Look to drop pH by 1 unit in about 5 days, or 0.2 units per day.

[travie]

Unless the fish is very sensitive, which usually equals a rare fish, the pH doesn't really matter as long as its stable and not at the extremes.

[Xandict]

This is the Acid Buffer I have.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/AcidBuffer.html

It's by Seachem but says nothing about taking away the waters ability. Oh, I appreciate this help very much.

[Pr0eve]

that will work.

[Xandict]

So when I get the pH to that range how often do i test it? Every water change or more often?

[Pr0eve]

before and after the water changes. norm water changes are weekly in my book.

but as your cycling it will be more. you should test ALL the water lvl daily until your water is cycled. you will need to add the buffer to the water " in your bucket" before you add it to your tank. and test it before adding it to your tank so you can make sure that the ph is the same.. we do not want a ph shock on the fish now...

I test my water every two days or so, but I am a bit of a water lvl freak.

[Xandict]

I have a master test kit on the way that uses suction cups to mount inside the tank that measures pH, ammonia, temp., nitrate and nitrites. So that should help me a lot

[Pr0eve]

no a liquid test kit like this one..

http://www.petsmart.com/graphics/product_images/pPETS-3757070t400.jpg

The one that hangs in the tank is just a monitor, I would get the liquid test kit as well, and I have never used one of the hanging one so..

[Xandict]

Did a water change about 50%. Ran out to wal-mart and bought a test kit. Came home and tested it, it was .25 which the bottle showed as being safe. Lost another tetra while I was gone

[Pr0eve]

yea, you may lose some fish, and sadly to say, you may lose them all. so it is good to do some reading.

.25 for AM is not safe, AM at 0.0 is safe. but during the cycle you'll need some AM in there...

read that link I posted at the beginning if this tread if you have not yet, and this one is a good start as well..

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/ebook.html

I am off for the night ,, hang in there, all of us on here have done this in the past.. it is a very command mistake. but it will get better..

[LosC]

Hey Xandict welcome to AC. Sorry about your fish man.
Definitely listen to ProEve, he helped me out when I was in your situation not too long ago. Fish are very sensitive to ammonia, it's like poison. I recommend you get a small bottle of Seachem Stability it really helped speed up my cycle and 8 or 9 days after I started using it my cycle was complete. It's easy to use and not expensive.

[Xandict]

I've read about the cycling but It made me confused and since I already have fish in there I'm even more confused. IF all of them were to die would the cycling still continue?

[Ben_Jam_In]

yeah with ammonia that high it basiclly kills the fish off and i know from personal experience the ph 6.0 or lower is acidic and kills the fish slowly and i learned that from the owner of my work that has owned fish for 25 years.

[Bobo the Clown Loach]

I have tried the suction cup real time PH and Ammo monitors, they prove to be a little difficult to read and don't always match up exactly with the liquid test kits. I normally test every 2-3 days with my liquid test kit just to be sure of pH. Investing in a liquid test kit should be 2nd on the list after buying your tank. I was also one of those people who didn't know much and jumped into things before coming here and reading info. Luckily, I was able to read up here and find out what to do before my mistakes ended up in dead fish. Also, thanks to AC I was able to cycle my newest (36 gal) tank in about 3 days with ammonia and established substrate from my 7 gallon tank.

[Pr0eve]

The best thing that I can tell you right now is to keep an eye on your Ammonia and Nitrites levels. When you’re ammonia levels hit about 0.5 do a 50% water change. Also keep an eye on your nitrate levels and also when they hit about 0.5 do a 50% water change. If all your tetras die, you may have to go down and get some zebra danio about 4 will be enough, and continue the cycling process. Using Seachem Stability will help the cycling process but it is not necessarily needed if you’re unable to afford it this time. I can’t emphasize enough on watching your water parameters and doing a water change when they hit about 0.5. Just make sure that you use a de-chlorine product like Start Right this product is made by Jungle. It is a complete water conditioner that removes chlorine and other heavy metals.

I also understand that this is a very frustrating moment for you to try to do some nice for a loved one, then disaster breaks out, it’s OK it get better from here.

[lasm]

What a nice post you do have in here Xandict and Pr0eve,

I just want to comment about the pH. I personally do not monitor it or try to change it to exactly fit my fish requirements. Where I live the water is very hard and has a high pH (>8.0). I just make sure it is not different by more than 0.5 when I do water changes. I finally decided not to go with any fish that requires very soft water hardness or a very acid pH.

Good luck with your cycle Xandict. I'm sorry about your fish.

[Pr0eve]

This process that you’re going through at the moment is one of the main reasons why people discontinue the aquatic hobby, but it is one of the most easiest situations to rectify. The cycling process of an aquarium is a process that has to be gone through every time a person sets up a new aquarium. Do not give up hope and be sure to learn from past mistakes, everyone on this forum has gone through this. This is also one of the most widely made mistakes in this hobby. Now you’ve probably thought to yourself, Is all this time, money and headaches worth it? YES. If it’s The wonderfulness and peacefulness that you get from this forever continuing hobby is priceless, that’s why we do it.

[Ellen4God]

Hey! I'm glad you're getting help with your cycling. :) It will definitely help you in the long run.

Pr0eve has basically said it all, but I wanted to just let you know that I was in your same boat. I had four guppies in my tank when I "decided to cycle" it. I basically just did routine water changes (at least 20% everyday or every other day), and I also checked the ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte levels everyday. I would say that I did water changes depending on what the readings were, but I did the regardless really. When I saw the high spike in ammonia and nitrIte levels (as Pr0eve was discussing), I did larger water changes. I did not add anything to my tank at all - no products to help speed it along or anything. I can't remember exactly how long it took me, but I think it was at least a couple weeks until I finally reached readings of 0 on both ammonia and nitrIte. After you've had your spike in readings, they will go back down, and once they reach 0 (for ammonia AND nitrIte), then you're cycled! That was such a wonderful day for me!!! thumbs2:

If you have not gotten a master test kit, you definitely should. This will help you out a LOT! I also have a table I made to record my readings on every time I tested the water. I'll attach it so that you can have a look at it. If you want to use it, great! Go ahead. If not, that's fine too. :) Just thought I would share it. Keep us updated on how things are going! And don't be afraid to ask more questions - I always ask TONS. lol

[Xandict]

Maybe my tank is finally starting to build some bacteria. Out of 10 I have 3 left and they are still schooling together and acting normal. They seem to be in pretty good health, so hopefully these 3 Cardinal's will survive.

[pinsonpa]

Xandict,

I recently established/cycled a 10 gallon tank with six Cardinals and they all made it (woohoo). Had I found this site a week earlier I would have done a fishless cycle, but it is what it is.

I'm positive that part of my success was dumb luck, but since I've been on this site it has become clear that the live plants I added probably played a very big role in speeding up my cycle (and saving my fish). The plants I added came from my lfs (local fish store) and they were in established tanks (i.e. they already had lots of benificial bacteria on them). I added them at the same time as my fish AND I FED MY FISH SPARINGLY (half a flake per fish every OTHER day). Less food means less fish waste (poop, etc.), less waste means lower ammonia levels. The fish gave me enough ammonia to start the process but because of the bacteria from the plants and because the fish weren't using the toilet as much, my cycle was faster and safer than it might have been (11 days). You also want to avoid cleaning ANYTHING while you cycle (you don't want to vacum up the bacteria).

In your situation, you might add some more live plants. I know you said you already have two, but in an 18 gallon tank you could add more (from established tanks at a reputable fish store) and this could give you a little extra bacteria boost. What kind of lights do you have in the hood? I chose Anubias Nana and Java Fern because they are easy to care for and don't require heavy lighting.

They're also some places may even give or sell you a cup of gravel from an established tank. You can put it in a cloth bag and hang in inside your tank. This can also give you a boost of beneficial bacteria that may speed things up.

The beauty of this website is that you will always be able to find TONS of people who know what they are doing (not me)...and often a few that have JUST been through a very similar scenario.

I rambled so here is a quick recap.

1) Look into adding more plants from established tanks (get some that are easy to care for and don't require special lighting). I'd suggest Anubias Nana and Java Fern (you'll want to anchor the fern to a rock or some wood).

2) Don't overfeed your fish. I used 1/2 a flake of food per fish every OTHER day. (this along with more plants will help your ammonia levels).

3) DO your water changes but DON'T vacum your gravel or clean anything! (you don't want to get rid of any bacteria).

4) If you have a reputable fish store in your area, see if they will give or sell you a cup of gravel from an established tank. Put in a cloth bag and hang in inside your tank (benificial bacteria baby!!!)

5) Don't panic...you are in the right place and we will get you through this:c3: