Old fashioned way of cycling??

[siymdapolio]

I have set up my very first aquarium, 35 gallon show tank, with a nice wooden stand/cupboard underneath. I currently do not have an ammonia tester or those master kits. But i have set up the tank like the LFS told me to do and said put some fish in the tank and it will cycle on its own with the waste from the fish. I currently have 1 angel fish, 5 gold white cloud mountain minnows, and bristlenose. After about two and half weeks, I have crystal clear water, no foam on top of the water. Have others done cycling of their tanks like this. And I am paranoid something might be right around the corner to screw up the whole cycle. I really need to get a master kit that tests everything.

[travie]

I would suggest downloading the Free Aquarium Ebook ( [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] ) under the menu on the left side of the screen, and to read:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

which talks about cycling a tank with fish. Both of those should help you a lot.

[jbeining75]

I'd get the test kits. The tank can be crystal clear and still have high ammonia or nitrite levels. Both of which are toxic to the fish... Good luck with the cycle...

[karbomb]

definitely get the test kits. your tank is not cycled yet. mine has been set up for a few weeks now and is still not fully cycled. you may lose some fish in the process, mainly the angel or the bristle noses. the white cloud minnows are great cycling fish, they are extremely hardy. good luck. i would say 4-6 weeks total for fishey cycling.

[kitten3326]

Cycling with fish can take a little while, the key to a successful fish cycle is purchasing the master test kit and checking your levels daily, once you see ammonia present, constant water changes are necessary to ensure the health and safety of the fish in your care. Once reading the online ebook you will better understand the nitrogen cycle. In the end you will have a beautiful cycled tank and will learn along the way. Good luck

[Sasquatch]

Without wanting to encourage your paranoia, something is right around the corner and it's the spikes in ammonia and nitrites.

I would get a master test kit ASAP and keep a very close eye on the behavious of your fish. If you see anything unusual, scratching on leaves, gulping air, lethargic behaviour or appearance of diseases, your fish are stressing and you should start doing immediate water changes.

You might be able to save the fish this way, but you're in for a lot of work. The constant water changes are reducing the toxic ammonia and nitrites, but at the same time the lower levels are reducing the growth of the cycling bacteria. It might save your fish, but it will lengthen your cycling time. It could take 6 weeks or even longer to cycle your tank.

Next time, try to find the ammonia. I've done both types of cycling and fishless is so much better. We just finished a fishless cycle in our 5g tank and, with some filter material from our 10g tank, it took 8 days to cycle the tank, no stressed out fish and no back pain from water changes. Even though it took more than 1 week to find the ammonia, it was still 2-3 times faster than a fish cycle.

Best of luck and I hope all goes well.

[sharkbite]

what I did before getting all the tests was to take a zip-lock back full of water and took it to the local Petsmart and they test the water for free and since I didn't want ot spend all the money at once I got the test separately whenever I could

[siymdapolio]

I would suggest downloading the Free Aquarium Ebook ( [Only Registered Users Can See Links.] ) under the menu on the left side of the screen, and to read:

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

which talks about cycling a tank with fish. Both of those should help you a lot.
Thanks travie and you guys :D, these Ebooks are great. I have read this and downloaded about 3 GB of Ebooks, I really do understand the nitrogen cycle now, and the bacteria that show up to break down the ammonia and nitrate and nitrites. I am going to take everybodies recommendation and buy that Master KIT!!!
I guess my next question is how much should I be changing with out hurting or depleting the good bacteria that break down the hazardous waste when high levals are present?

Has anyone heard of Gold White Cloud Mountain minnows, I was told they are similiar to albino but lost the gene that gives them the color orange on the males and a little light silver purple on female, also much smaller.?

[Sasquatch]

The best indicator of when and how much water to change will be your fish. If you see odd behaviour like I mentionned above, change the water until it stops. You should probably aerate the water too, ammonia and nitrites affect the gills, so by maxing oxygen content in the water, you'll minimize the stress on the fish.

A few things when you change the water.
- Make sure to use a full dose of dechlorinator. Chlorine will kill the bacteria, you don't want that.

- Don't change the media in your filter. A lot of the cycling bacteria are in your filter, so don't mess with it. Also, once the cycle is done, when you rinse your media, do it in water from your aquarium, that way the bacteria won't get killed off.

- Don't disturb the gravel. If you get buildup on the substrate, keep the gravel vac far enough to suck up the buildup without disturbing the gravel too much. There are a lot of cycling bacteria in your gravel, so by minimizing disturbances, you give the the best colonization condition.

Once you get the test kit, check regularly (every day or two) to keep a close eye on the progress of your cycle.

Can't help with the mountain minnows though ... sorry.

Good luck.

[siymdapolio]

Thanks so much, I will keep an eye out on their behaviour, I watch them a lot, they seem all very happy. From what you said sasquatch i am doing everything right except the vacuming, I was disturbing the substrate to get the poop out and debris :ssad: . I have an aquaclear 50, that has the sponge on the bottom, carbon, then the biological filter for the bacteria to colonize on aswell. Would just sinking an extra airhose with an airstone to the bottom help increase the oxygen???

Sorry if i confused you sasquatch I was told what i bought where gold white clouds and they are similiar to albino because they are so brightly colored but do have pigment compared to the albino with no pigment. Just wondering if others have heard of them or have them.

[Sasquatch]

Thanks so much, I will keep an eye out on their behaviour, I watch them a lot, they seem all very happy. From what you said sasquatch i am doing everything right except the vacuming, I was disturbing the substrate to get the poop out and debris :ssad: . I have an aquaclear 50, that has the sponge on the bottom, carbon, then the biological filter for the bacteria to colonize on aswell. Would just sinking an extra airhose with an airstone to the bottom help increase the oxygen???

Sorry if i confused you sasquatch I was told what i bought where gold white clouds and they are similiar to albino because they are so brightly colored but do have pigment compared to the albino with no pigment. Just wondering if others have heard of them or have them.

Don't worry about it. We all started like you did.

An AC50 is pretty good for your tank. I'll let you decide wether to keep the carbon or not, some say yes, other no, most people say "It depends".

As for an "extra airhose with an airstone", it implies you already have one, which should be sufficient. If it's a small airstone (around 1") you might want to add another, but if it's a curtain or a disc shaped diffuser, you should of OK with what you have.

I've never heard of an albino white cloud. From what I've seen on Google, they look like a sort of albino, they just don't have the darker coloration of the regular white clouds. They should be just as hardy as regular white clouds. You should keep in mind that white clouds are generally considered a cold water species, so try to prevent spikes in temperature, they might not handle them very well.

[siymdapolio]

Thanks :c1:

I had the ammonia filter in their but I know it is really old and have no idea if they expire. I had some annoying odor form tank so i decided to buy some carbon to get rid of the odor, It helped with a little water change and the tank has not smelt bad since.

The angelfish does not like all the current in the tank produced by the AQ50 though i can tell that he seems to have found his own way throught he tank were there is no current but he falls into the current sometimes and gets pulled down kind of funny but sad.

I have a airstone in yes. the airstones that I have all have looked used, some deposit of calcium maybe I donno its white on the outside of them.

As for the Gold white cloud mountain minnows, When i first bought them I researched and found no pictures with the same colors even if i googled the name. I went back to the LFS and found the tank just to make sure I wasnt make a mindless mistake, the tank said Gold white cloud on the front. I found the owner and asked him about them, He said they are very similiar to a fish that is albino but produce this orange color rather than the normal fish color. I know that it is the lack of a gene(code) for melanin production that produce pigment in skin by obsorbing Uv light. Please correct me if i am wrong I am still a novice :D

Post script
I would love to get pictures up of my tank and these fish so you could see them. My media reader is not currently reading sd card from digital camera, but when i do i can let you?

[Sasquatch]

Most resins get old within a month or so. Carbon, ammonia remover, phosphate removere etc ... are resins that bind the target molecule(s). Once all the binding sites are full, they don't work anymore. What's worst, if the water chemistry changes (pH, hardness, alkalinity) some resins can even release the molecules back into the water.

Also, when you're cycling, using something that binds ammonia isn't a good idea. It reduced the nutrient source for the bacteria and slows down the cycle.

[siymdapolio]

thank you, I will check into buying ammonia remover then.

What would be something that binds the ammonia together?

[Sasquatch]

thank you, I will check into buying ammonia remover then.

What would be something that binds the ammonia together?

Actually, don't buy any. If you have high levels of ammonia during the cycle, do water chages. Ammonia removing resins will only slow the cycle down even more.

To be honest, unless you have a severely overstoked tank (which you don't) I don't see the point of using ammonia removers ... and you have an overstocked tank, buying another tank will be cheaper in the long run.

[Colin]

Totally agree with what Sasquatch has said, good advice, no problems.

Yup dont use with any chems, just declorinator, watch your chemestry and change water when getting too high. Its a pain and you might end up water changing every day but thats the problem with fish cycling rather than fishless. Your stock level is suitable, you should be fine.:thumb:

Carbon filter, yeh yeh many opinions about, I recon keep it in for a while, at least untill it has cycled, then you could take it out and top up with biomax and some more filter floss, also depends on where your water comes from, tap water the world over is very different from place to place.

[siymdapolio]

Totally agree with what Sasquatch has said, good advice, no problems.

Yup dont use with any chems, just declorinator, watch your chemestry and change water when getting too high. Its a pain and you might end up water changing every day but thats the problem with fish cycling rather than fishless. Your stock level is suitable, you should be fine.:thumb:

Carbon filter, yeh yeh many opinions about, I recon keep it in for a while, at least untill it has cycled, then you could take it out and top up with biomax and some more filter floss, also depends on where your water comes from, tap water the world over is very different from place to place.

Ok great guys thank you so much. I do have the filter floss stuff that i wrapped around my carbon filter for a week, really looked dirty after that amount of time. I have been told that i live in a very lucky place for freshwater fish well most of them, all i needed to do was dechlorinate and i was fine, the tap waters ph is very neutral. I stll have yet to buy my master kit!!!

Sorry about asking this but still a beginner, i am not to sure what you mean by topping it up with filter floss and what is the bio max??

[siymdapolio]

So from what everybody is saying about fishless cycling and how nice it. And what I read is nice!!! I have taken the hard way of cycling right for my very first aquarium set up.

[Colin]

BioMax is a filter media for biological filtration, its where the good bacteria can live.

Filter floss, I think, is a fine mat type filter media for fine mechanical filtration.

Fishless cycling is a pain, cos if you get it wrong you will kill your fish and you have to attend to them once every day, sometimes twice. but its hard not to put fish in an empty tank, lol I think we have all suffered it.

[LosC]

Don't be intimidated by all the information people give you. Just be patient and do frequent water changes once your levels get too high, keep us posted on your levels. I recommended getting a product to speed up your cycle such as; Seachem Stability.

[siymdapolio]

Don't be intimidated by all the information people give you. Just be patient and do frequent water changes once your levels get too high, keep us posted on your levels. I recommended getting a product to speed up your cycle such as; Seachem Stability.

Thanks Carlos, A lot of people tell me to do fishless cycling!!! I kind of like doing it this way so far but I do not have my master kit yet and I change the water whenever I feel like it needs it( when it smells bad, needs a change, attending to my fish thumbs2: )
I will get my master kit and tell you guys what my levels are so far on my 2 1/2 week cycle :D and how good I have been doing

I actually do have these wierd biological filter in my AQ50 allready on the top, it came with the craigslist buy but have no idea how old it is, or even if it had any good bacteria on it.

I bought biozyme when i first bought the tank but did not put any in it because my dog found it before i opened it at home, luckily i have some left to put it but i dont know how to use it because I put just a little in and it really clouded the water and settled on the top so i havent put more in should i?
Thanks for being interested