love the Emperor 400!

[ericsc]

Hi,
I just installed my new Emperor 400 on my 46 gallon tank, I have been using a Whisper 60 which was working ok, but the Emperor got my water totally crystal clear in a matter of 1 hour. It is hard to believe the difference in the water quality with the Emperor. I am still running both until the Emperor runs for a few weeks to get some bacteria on the bio-wheels, then will just use the Whisper as a back up filter. Any one else had this happen with a bio-wheel or had any problems with them?

[gm72]

I dislike the biowheels personally but very glad to hear that your tank is better with it running.

[Pickles]

Nope. Never had that happen with an Emperor. Glad it's working so well for you. What do you have in it, particularly the media at the top, the one the water goes through last?

I had lots of problems with a bio-wheel. Silly wheel wouldn't turn for poop. I was able to get more surface area with bio balls in an AC. I'm not fond of bio-wheels. I think they're over rated and you can get better surface area setting up an AC accordingly.

[cocoa_pleco]

i had ALOT of trouble with my penguin 150 and 350, but my emperor 280 i got new from petsmart for $3 is awesome, no issues at all with it.

i use it as a extra filter on my 90g with the fluval FX5

[ericsc]

I put some bio-balls in the back empty filter, I just hope this will help my cycle finish after 7 weeks.

[Pickles]

I put some bio-balls in the back empty filter, I just hope this will help my cycle finish after 7 weeks.

Uuuhhhmmmm...I don't know about helping to cycle, but it will give you more surface area than just your bio-wheel and you'll be the better off for it. Once the tank is cycled you'll be better off for it I mean.

[Hairback357]

I use the Penguin 350's and AC filters myself and for me the Bio Wheels have been in the beginning a total pain to keep spinning. Once I finally got them going they have been working fine ever since. I keep them around because I understand how they work and how superior they are to other types of bio filtration. The Bio Wheel produces substantially more bio filtration than that of any other type. It is mainly because of the open air larger surface area design. Any filter media that is submerged will at the very most have 10ppm of O2 capability. If you were to measure the water coming from any submerged media filter it would read more like 2-4ppm. A Bio Wheel has virtually unlimited O2 potential and that is why they are so effective. The design is by far the most effective but it's to bad the consumer ones are so cheaply made. The commercial ones are rock solid and provide years of trouble free service. Now as good as a properly working Bio Wheel is the mechanical filtration in the Penguin and Emperor filters are weak. The mechanical filtration in the AC filters is far superior. That is why I run one AC filter where I don't worry at all about the bio media and one Penguin 350 where I don't concern myself to much with the filter cartridges. I take the best from both of these and combine them to make a better filtration system. I am currently working on a modified AC filter where I am adding Bio Wheels to it to make my ultimate filter. By the way the Bio Wheels are not over hyped they are in fact the shizzle but the quality of the manufacturing for non commercial use is suspect.

[goleafs]

Emperors are the best! I've got an emperor 400 as a second filter on my 75 and an emperor 280 on my 30. I have nothing but good things to say about them.

[jbeining75]

I just prefer the Aquaclears... I am skeptical about the biological filter being out of the water....

[Rue]

I prefer the AC too...easier to look after...

But I have 2 280s running on the 55g...can't complain...(they came with the tank)...

[Incredulous_Ed]

I just prefer the Aquaclears... I am skeptical about the biological filter being out of the water....
Doesnt the bacteria grow a lot beter when exposed to oxygen?

[Pickles]

Doesnt the bacteria grow a lot beter when exposed to oxygen?

Nope. Kills it.

That's why when cleaning your tank you keep your whatevers in the water you're getting rid of so as not to expose them to oxygen and kill the baceeria.

A biowheel that doesn't turn properly is going to loose bacteria because exposed to air the bacteria will die.

[cocoa_pleco]

Doesnt the bacteria grow a lot beter when exposed to oxygen?

yes it does.

also, the biowheel spins in the water so it gets oxygenated well. i have 2 biowheels established for a year

[Pickles]

The bacteria needs oxygen, yes. But within the confines of the water. Out of the water it will die. That's why you bring seasoned rocks, etc., from one tank to another.

Would you leave those seansoned rocks out for three days and then put them into the new tank? No. Because all benefical bacteria would have died. The bacteria needs oxygen AND water.

[Incredulous_Ed]

OK, so it good for it to be exposed to some oxygen as long as there is constant water flow over it?

[Pickles]

OK, so it good for it to be exposed to some oxygen as long as there is constant water flow over it?

Well, yeah. But not in the way of say a biowheel.

Again, consider the rocks from a seasoned tank. They're exposed to oxygen within the tank but there's not a "flow" per se. And the sides of your tank? Loaded with good bacteria.

Decorations, rocks, wood, thermometer, whatever that's in your seasoned tank has got good bacteria all over it. Again, that's why you clean whatever you clean under water from the water you've pulled out of your tank and you don't let it/them dry out.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Wait im confused. Wouldnt a biowheel be more exposed to oxygen, and it would stay constantly wet so no bacteria die? This is confusing.

[Pickles]

It's my feeling that bio media that is always submerged is superior to a biowheel - based on all I know. That's the reason I set up my filters the way I do and don't bother with biowheels (not to mention the one I had never did the wheel turn properly).

Yes the biowheel stays constantly wet, but too it's constantly out of the water and exposed to air. Note air vs. oxygen.

So, counter productive.

Come on, Ed! You're supposed to be the expert at things! LOL!

[Incredulous_Ed]

lol yeah. Im confused because I was always told filter media exposed to air can grow bacteria better than those that are completely submerged.

[Pickles]

Okay.

Then how do you explain the seasoned rocks, etc., from one tank to another? And keeping them wet?

Maybe you're correct. However... I'm not going to leave my filter out in the air when cleaning it. Or my bio-balls. Or anything else.

Just my preference.

[Hairback357]

Okay.

Then how do you explain the seasoned rocks, etc., from one tank to another? And keeping them wet?

Maybe you're correct. However... I'm not going to leave my filter out in the air when cleaning it. Or my bio-balls. Or anything else.

Just my preference.

Dude you are confused. The Bio Wheels need not even spin to work. They can stop spinning completely and still work. Just like if you take your bio balls, substrate, or filters out of the water. The bacteria will be fine as long as it doesn't dry out. The Bio Wheels won't work as well if their not spinning because of reduced surface area but that is the only reason. They don't dry up if they are not spinning. As a matter of fact I would guess that even if a Bio Wheel stops spinning completely it still funtions better than submerged media. The bacteria in your substrate you keep mentioning suffers from the same problem as your submerged bio media in you AC filter. If it is under water you are limited to the amount of O2 you can have flow over your media no matter what it is bio balls, substrate, sponges or any other type of bacteria bed. If you let the bio wheel dry out the bacteria dies, again just like any other bio media. There is no difference in what media were talking about. The Bio Wheel grows and keeps bacteria better than any submerged media because of increased O2. It is able to do this because it is constantly exsposed to open air. None of this really matters as your AC filter will work just fine to suport your tank i'm sure. People use them all the time as the only filtration and they are in my opinion better made and superior mechanical filters. They are however not as good in the bio filtration department as any Bio Wheel.

It's perfectly OK to prefer one device over another but your just not correct in your statements.

Look at it this way. In commercial hatcheries they use a lot of commercial bio wheels. They are about the size of a loaf of bread and can sustain huge tanks with 250 lbs of fish. You can't really see using a filter designed like a AC on a huge scale like that can you? The only reason other manufactures don't use Bio Wheels is because it is a patented design. It's to bad to because with a little more competition we might get better quality filters instead of the second class stuff from Marineland.

[Pickles]

Maybe I am incorrect. Po-tay-toe, po-ta-toe; toe-may-toe, toe-ma-toe. Shall we agree to disagree?

http://aquarium-answers.blogspot.com/2006/12/do-bio-wheels-really-work.html

[Rue]

I understand it as Hairback explained it too...

[Pickles]

Maybe I am nutz. One begins to doubt one's self in the face of so much opposition. I'm not good with the math part and surface area and mass and aerobic and anaerobic. But the way it was explained to me is pretty much the way I've stated.

Did you read the link I posted? I have to admit I found info backing Hairback's opinion also.

I'll concede there's a possibility from one standpoint - the premise of the biowheel - that Hairback could be correct.

But... I'm still not going to switch from ACs set up for bio filtration! LOL!

[Rue]

Regardless of which is better, I prefer the AC for ease of maintenance...

My biowheels are running well...but I cringe when I have to stop them for cleaning...they take forever to prime and make a horrendous racket when they do...

[Hairback357]

I cringe when I have to even look at mine. I just start praying they start spinning again. I also really like the AC filters for their reliability and ease of use. Two things I have found lacking in the Marineland filters but I still have two of them until they die.

[prosise]

Would two 400's in a new 55 gallon tank be overkill or better for the fish in the long run....

Prosise


Just starting a new tank up...

[hpt84]

I think all filter serve it purpose, which is to provide filtration. I think brand of filter is more like religion. Some pick one brand and believe the other are inferior to it. It really doesn't matter too much as long as it filter the water. I personally have a penguin 350 because it was 30 dollars.

Would two 400's in a new 55 gallon tank be overkill or better for the fish in the long run....

Prosise


Just starting a new tank up...
One and a half 400 would do the trick. There is nothing wrong with providing more filtration as long as your fish don't mind the flow.

[chuckf]

Here's a slightly related question, in smaller tanks won't a large number of plantings strip a lot of nutrients from the water and so reduce the need for biological filtering. Theoretically, with enough plants you could make do with a AC filter and limit the biological "filter" activity to whatever bacteria is growing in the gravel.

BTW, how do you stick bio-balls in an Aqualclear anyway?

[AABatteries]

BTW, how do you stick bio-balls in an Aqualclear anyway?

I think you just stick them in the back, I'm not sure never had used bio-balls or AC filters, only whisper and UGF.

[cocoa_pleco]

just stick them 80% submerged in the back of the filter