RD pwns JD

[cocoa_pleco]

well, this is freakin weird. i looked at my red devil, 10", and he has my 3" jack dempsey in his mouth, dead. the red devil has some physical damage on his tail, which isnt the worst part


his mouth is severely uber mega ultra deformed, the top lip is distended and weird.

i CANNOT remove the carcass of the JD, its too far in. is there anything i can do?

[Algenco]

Bummer, you would have to cut it up to get it out. Dorsal spines will make it difficult

[goleafs]

I cant think of anything you can do that won't severely harm the RD.

[Rue]

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q152/Rue_album/sharknemo.gif

[cocoa_pleco]

it might have been the green terror he ate, the JD and GT look the same. i'll still try to remove it though

[gm72]

Wow, man, sorry to hear of your loss here.

[cocoa_pleco]

hmm, i dont think i can get it out. the carcass is far in and he ate it head first.

[jbeining75]

Sorry about your loss cocoa... That is the bad thing about cichlids they can turn very easily.... especially with the size difference...

[goleafs]

If he ate it head first it might be okay just to leave it and let him finish swallowing it.

[NickFish]

Thats not good.
I don't know how you can remove it, as I can not see the damage, but it would be hard.

Curse those red devils!

[Incredulous_Ed]

A guy at petmsart was talking to me about when this happened to him. He said he just cut the lip. I think the fish died, so dont do that lol

[Lady Hobbs]

Oh gosh, I am following this story waiting to see what happened and ..........cocoa logs off!

[Halelorf]

The only thing I could think of would be to sedate the red devil with some olive of cloves. Then get the thinnest and longest scissors you can find and try to cut the dorsal fin of the eaten fish and pull the carcass out so the spines don't shred your devil. As far as getting the spines out, I have no clue. You would probably just have to leave them and hope for the best :scry:.

[Halelorf]

If you could successfully cut the fin out and remove the carcass a pair of long and very thin forceps might do the trick to remove the spines. I wish you the best of luck still this is a very terrible thing to have happen.

[cocoa_pleco]

i had to go out.

the red devil is sitting in a cave, i could see enough to notice the other fish carcass in the same place as before.

I cant stand it, its not going down. im temped to net him, throw him on the counter, and take pliers and yank it out

[cocoa_pleco]

I tried but its not working, i called the emergency vet and none of the vets in tonight know fish. I would easily pay the $300 bill for him if i knew someone could get it out

[karbomb]

i'm sorry to hear about this situation cocoa. i had this happen with a goldfish and an otto when i was a kid, but the otto was a whole lot easier to remove. good luck and let me know what happens

[shalafi04]

omg cocoa. i cant believe this is still going on 5 hours later. i was really hoping the Devil would have gotten this under control by now. i really hope he is okay... im so sorry for the stress... maybe he will figure out what to do

[cocoa_pleco]

i read a article and it says that the RD may be able to down it, if its not gone by tomorrow you need to remove it.

My other choice now is im going to put up a local ad to see if i can pay someone to help me

[shalafi04]

too bad im not in Canada... id help ya yank the dang thing out! keep us posted, i hope he figures it out on is own, for your sake!

[cocoa_pleco]

the carcass is shifting though, sometimes it goes further down his throat and sometimes it sticks out a bit.

[shalafi04]

hows the RD acting?? I say if he's okay with a massive body stuck in his throat, he's okay for now.

[cocoa_pleco]

hes slowly cruising around.

i was going to try the pliers but i think ive reached the point if i net him he will die of stess. i contacted someone on allexperts to see if they know anything.

Just in case anyones wondering i wont quit fish from this situation. its best i learn how to handle situations like this now and know what to do in the future

[cocoa_pleco]

checked again and his top lip is more closable so the carcass is slowly going down.

I also am sure now that he ate my green terror, not the JD. doesnt matter though

Im just going to wait, pliers are useless at this point. i wish i could have seen how it ended up in his mouth though

[shalafi04]

thats what you get for partying. :P teehee.... at least we will always remember the exact day and time that your green terror met his maker

[cocoa_pleco]

lol, if the RD makes it hes going to anger management, or juvy, whichevers easier

hope the green terrors parents arent around, they might take the red devil on judge judy

[karbomb]

and on the bright side your RD won't need a whole food for a little while.

[cocoa_pleco]

lol.

i think he can handle it himself now. ive had stupid situations like this happen before. i had a albino clawed frog that ate 50 crickets at one, and he literally expanded to the size of a tennis ball. he lived surprisingly

[shalafi04]

lol, if the RD makes it hes going to anger management, or juvy, whichevers easier

hope the green terrors parents arent around, they might take the red devil on judge judy

hahaha maybe he should be tried as an adult though. you have to have thought it through to swallow your victim whole. its not like he swam into him on accident with his mouth open. lol

[cocoa_pleco]

red devils new name= pacman. lol

[karbomb]

hahaha
do you have any pics of the frog?

[cocoa_pleco]

i quit fish a few years ago and sold all of my fish so he had to go too. no pics remaining

I used to have a tinfoil barb in the tank with him and if the frog got a cricket the barb would fight him for it, if the tinfoil was close to getting it the frog would swipe with his claw. it wasnt serious fighting though, noone got damaged

[cocoa_pleco]

his lip looks better, and hes swimming normally.

hes opening/closing his mouth alot so i think hes trying to down it

[karbomb]

good. let us know how it goes.

[cocoa_pleco]

That is a tough one. Does he appear to be breathing okay?

The trouble with an oscars mouth is that it is a one-way trip -- things really aren't designed for prey to come back out so pulling out the tetra is not a good move. If however, the oscar is in distresss, you are going to have to do this. The key here is that you need to not damage the oscar. Personally, I would leave it but keep an eye on the oscar.


Someone else asked this question, their buenes aires tetra got lodged in the oscars mouth

the red devil is breathing okay, and trying to down the green terror, so im gonna wait it

[Ocellatus]

Ah man I alarmed you when you got that RD ....

anyway sorry for your loss.
seems you need stress coat for yourself not the RD. lol
I would let her do it alone, as you did. they usually don't go for something that they can't handle. also no problem with the lip, its completely stretchy!

but i don't know she can digest it or not ... maybe vomit it then.

[cocoa_pleco]

8 hours later its still in his mouth.

Now the GT looks like its sticking out of his mouth a bit, and i asked a specific all experts question and he said get it out ASAP, so im going with pliers again

[Lady Hobbs]

Would you believe I dreamed of this last night and almost got up at 4 AM to see how this was going. This is really awful.

If he is having problems getting the head down, how will be handle the rest. Let's hope those digestive juices start working quickly.

I don't know what I would have done either. I think I would have been tempted to wrap it in a wet towel (covering up his eyes) try to cut that dorsal off and pull the thing out with pliers. NOT like it would be an easy task by yourself.

I just hope he's OK. Bad enough you lost the little one. Is the other little one there still......or gone?

[cocoa_pleco]

RD is acting like he was born with the GT in his mouth! the RD is just cruising around. Its back to the pliers soon

EDIT- im going with pliers again now. It doesnt help that he thrashes, it would be easier if i could get one of those sleep masks they use in doctors offices. If i knew the red devil would not move i would stick my finger in and get the GT out. lol

[Lady Hobbs]

Let him trash. Maybe he can get loose of it but that dorsal fin of a bit of a concern.

[cocoa_pleco]

still i cant get it out with pliers.

the GT went in head first, and the GT's tail sits just inside the edge of his mouth, and you can see a tiny bit of remaining tail. After that you can just see a round ball of white flesh.

When i was fighting with the pliers he spit up some chewed up stuff so hes working on downing it

[Lady Hobbs]

Like a snake downing a giant frog. Takes them hours sometimes. Sounds as it's almost gone, tho.

So, where is the other little fish?

[cocoa_pleco]

the JD is the only thing half close to the size of the GT so he got moved

[cocoa_pleco]

update- Hes trying to work it out of his mouth, now a bit of white flesh is coming out so hes trying.

Its been 16 hours in his mouth, so if he can get it out by tonight there should be a bacterial infection

[jbeining75]

Are his entire dorsal fins stuck in the mouth???? Maybe try to cut the topfin out a little ..... but those fins are hard as heck... Man this sucks...... Poor GT....Poor RD....

[Lady Hobbs]

This is the most drama ever on the forum. I've been sitting here for hours waiting to see how this goes. He's probably working his throat to get that last bit down sending up tiny pieces.

Well, you won't have to feed him for a week.

The drama continues.

[cocoa_pleco]

lol.

But i dont get it, if the RD caught the GT alive im sure the GT could fight to get away, especially since he went in head first.

I wonder if the GT died somehow and the RD just ate his body, and doesnt want to quit chewing it and its now stuck.

anyhow, i just can wait.

[Lady Hobbs]

I don't think so. I bet he went in very intentionally. With that dorsal fin caught and the Red Devils teeth hanging on, he was doomed to die.

[Ocellatus]

I think RD caught the GT suddenly and all alive. otherwise if RD wanted to kill it first, GT could escape easily because it couldn't be killed with one shot, at most a bite then GT escapes. the only way is catching it at once.

and yeah they catch the head first and the fish can do nothing when its head is in a powerful jaw, also it will die sooner.

RDs have a stretchy mouth and are able to get big things, like this pic.

[goleafs]

Fins on pretty much any fish are designed so they cannot be swallowed from behind. If a fish is being eaten head first it will be alot easier for it to go in than come out.

[cocoa_pleco]

thanks for the pic bluray, i dont have my camera so i can explain something.

With the GT in his mouth his lip is stuck extended like in your pic blu-ray, hes still working at getting it out

[Ocellatus]

Your welcome, I hope he ( or she? ) makes it soon.

[shalafi04]

maybe you should use the pliers and try to sorta crush it... maybe some needle nosed pliers... i mean the GT is dead, ya cant hurt it, and I dont think the RD would be any worse off than it is now with a dead body stuck in its mouth lol

[tropfish]

wow that's crazy. I wouldn't try to pull it out anymore either, the fins are locked in there now. Maybe you could try to cut some of the body out (as disgusting as that sounds) so he has less to swallow. if he can get his mouth closed around it he should be able to swallow.

[crackatinny]

On one of the oscar sites there was a similar scenario with a bristlenose caught in the mouth of an oscar, I just tried to find it but can't, perhaps you could do some searches with that in mind.

From memory, they removed the oscar, and wrapped it in a wet towel whilst they cut off the bristlenoses fins, I imagine this would be quite a drastic move though.

[cocoa_pleco]

sorry guys, im in a rush, but i drove home to check on him.

his mouth looks better so i think he swallowed the GT, hes all better i think, hes hiding

i'll be back in 5 hours

[Lady Hobbs]

I bet he's wishing about now you'd have fed him a goldfish instead.

Great! Five more hours of waiting!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ocellatus]

this reminds me about a video of a Gulper catfish that eats a fish bigger than its mouth! to simulate the situation you can watch this video :
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=7168
I have to say that its really terrible! only +18 please!!!!
poor GT here!!

[goleafs]

WOW pwned.

[tropfish]

yea owned. as sad as it is it was pretty amazing. the cat was like "stop bumping me" then GULP. I guess we can see where they get their name.

[cocoa_pleco]

i checked again, and hes being normal and his mouth is absolutely perfect now. I cant get a glimpse inside his mouth but im sure he swallowed it

[karbomb]

geez, one hefty meal. glad he was able to down it all at last.

[digital3]

this reminds me about a video of a Gulper catfish that eats a fish bigger than its mouth! to simulate the situation you can watch this video :
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/image.php?image_id=7168
I have to say that its really terrible! only +18 please!!!!
poor GT here!!

My LFS sells those. Only kept with fairly large Gars. However, I noticed a couple of red terrors in there. I think they're going to be lunch!

[cocoa_pleco]

its official, he swallowed it!

His lip is a bit cut up, and its not too bad.

Im adding another, yes, another fluval FX5 canister to my 90g tomorrow, you cant beat only $250 for them.

[toddnbecka]

If the fish is too large to swallow immediately, the gulper will swim around with the victim hanging out until the head is digested. Then the rest will fit down the gullet.

[cocoa_pleco]

If the fish is too large to swallow immediately, the gulper will swim around with the victim hanging out until the head is digested. Then the rest will fit down the gullet.

good to know, i checked in his mouth and he for sure ate it all.

Will he have trouble passing it through his system?

[tropfish]

good to know, i checked in his mouth and he for sure ate it all.

Will he have trouble passing it through his system?

Most likely not, his stomach acids will break it down and he'll be able to pass it through his system.

[Lady Hobbs]

If so, I hope it doesn't take him 2 days to poop it like it did to eat it. I bet he's wishing he would not have been such a hog a time or two.

[cocoa_pleco]

or at least take smaller bites!

[kitten3326]

Well Cocoa that was quite the drama, I just read all the posts and am very glad to hear your red devil survived, however I am very sorry to hear of your loss regarding your green terror. Note to self do not get red devil. lol.

[Tolley]

Did you move the JD yet? lol if he saw what happened he'd probably be scared as hell LOL

[cocoa_pleco]

yeah, i went through my pile of 20 empty tanks and found a 29g. he will only be there for a month, just until he gets a bit bigger

[Tolley]

ok cool, lol you say went through as if theyre magazines or something