Freshwater Angelfish - Not Hole-in-the-Head??

[SouthHawk]

I have, or rather had, 14 lovely Brazilian angel fish of about 2-3years age in a 7'x2'x2' tank, filtered by another 70 gallons of aquariums underneath.

They were fine until a couple of months ago when I noticed what I thought were the effects of in-fighting – marks on the flanks and some lip damage. Eventually I realised that what I had looked similar – but not the same as hole-in-the-head type infection. There are NO holes (HEAD, BODY OR LATERAL LINE), but the body is left scarred – badly in the worst cases – looking like the marks left by chicken-pox in humans. Where these marks have been on the gill covers they have left large holes.

These marks are preceded by pimple-like spots – much bigger than a white-spot infection. Some fish have suffered additional problems – holes in dorsal / anal fins, cloudly/mucused eyes, dropsy in one case.

Fish have mostly continued to feed (unless becoming terminal) and indeed two pairs have spawned three times between them.

I showed images and a video to a local dealer friend who agreed that it looked very like a form of hole-in-the head disease. I had lost two fish before treatment started. Despite treating with a course of Octozin, and later eSHaHexamita the problem has persisted, and in total I have lost 5 out of the 14 fish. Treatment seemed to at best arrest for a time but not stop the condition and a recent further deterioration has prompted a further Octozin treatment.

All other fish are unaffected (barbs, catfish, many Botias) although a very ancient Brochis had at the same time a single spot behind the head very similar in appearance, which may be coincidental.

Any thoughts out there? It’s been very depressing so far.

[Lady Hobbs]

This is way too many angels to keep in a tank together even with it being 7 ft and you are seeing the end results of this. My guess is that these fish have battle scars and have gotten bacterial infections probably due to the stress and conflict they are under. Stress weakens their immune systems which makes fighting off disease and "battle scars" harder for them.

Angels are best kept in tanks of their own in pairs and require large weekly water changes. If that can not be accomplished then at least the pairs removed to other tanks and that stock greatly thinned out.

[SouthHawk]

Thanks for your comments Lady Hobbs. Whilst I'd tend to agree with the supposition my experience was that there was actually very little aggression - certainly not that I could observe anyway. In fact the set up seemed to work much better than keeping half a dozen together inthat size of tank, where one fish would ten to be definitely bottom of the pecking order. A bit like the theory with Rift Valley fish in that respect. A few months ago they looked immaculate, and would all congregate like a row of ballerinas across the front glass at feeding times, with just the usual short lived showing and bluster towards each other from time to time, nothing serious by cichlid standards.

From what I've researched just recently it does seem to follow the HinH/Hexamita pattern (admittedly often induced by stress conditions) though - with the traditional treatments reducing the scale of infection but not stopping it. Manufacturers of treatments continue to recommend three day courses of treatment as they have for many years, but the university and other research pieces I've just read suggest that longer treatment spans are needed to nail the infection.

Thanks again. I'll report back on any resolution as I work on this.

SH

[gm72]

If you had 14 angels plus the other fish in there I agree with Lady that you've got an overstocking problem which certainly contributed to your unfortunate losses. I'll be interested to hear how this ends for you.

[Fishalicious]

I have 4 angels in a 7 feet tank and am currently experiencing problems as one pair is breeding - the other two are being attacked non-stop and are also very scarred. I have had to move the other 2 out now...

So even with only 4 it can go wrong no matter how big the tank... I can only imagine how bad the territorial fighting is with 14!!!

[jbeining75]

They are cichlids.... they are territorial by nature... breeding just makes it even worse.....

[Lady Hobbs]

Thanks for your comments Lady Hobbs. Whilst I'd tend to agree with the supposition my experience was that there was actually very little aggression - certainly not that I could observe anyway. In fact the set up seemed to work much better than keeping half a dozen together inthat size of tank, where one fish would ten to be definitely bottom of the pecking order. A bit like the theory with Rift Valley fish in that respect. A few months ago they looked immaculate, and would all congregate like a row of ballerinas across the front glass at feeding times, with just the usual short lived showing and bluster towards each other from time to time, nothing serious by cichlid standards.

From what I've researched just recently it does seem to follow the HinH/Hexamita pattern (admittedly often induced by stress conditions) though - with the traditional treatments reducing the scale of infection but not stopping it. Manufacturers of treatments continue to recommend three day courses of treatment as they have for many years, but the university and other research pieces I've just read suggest that longer treatment spans are needed to nail the infection.

Thanks again. I'll report back on any resolution as I work on this.

SH

I hope you can find a solution for these fish. If you think it's depressing for you, imagine being them ...terriorised all day with no where to hide for refuge.
They must be very stressed and this aggression will increase not decline. At least 10 of these fish should be re-housed and even then you have no guarantee that the remaining 4 can be together.

You can not compare Rift Lake cichlids to angelfish at all. Rift Lake cichlids hide in caves and can get away from their aggressors and do best if kept several to a tank directing aggression away from one or two. Angels, not only are much larger, but are not cave dwellers and can not hide from attackers. They do not like to be in groups once they mature and are happy just being with a mate alone.

[SouthHawk]

I hear the assumptions. I can only say that I know what a harrassed fish looks and behaves like, and that that has never been a feature here. Quite the contrary in fact. There has been little in the way of a serious pecking order, and a general harmony (as much as one could conceivably expect) amongst them.

I know what tends to happen in small groups of three or four all too often (hell, even two if they don't get on), or, God forbid, if anyone tries to introduce new stock amongst existing Angels. It may be of course that surpressed aggression is a stress factor here, but definitely not open physical aggression and injury.

Nevertheless, "Houston, we have a problem" and it must be dealt with as efficiently and swiftly as possible. Thanks everyone - I'll keep you posted down the line.

[fishfanatic33]

Sorry about the probs........hope you can fix it