Help - I don't understand whats happening to my fish

[i3k]

I have a 33 gallon tank that has been running for years now with no problems until recently. Please check out my other thread [Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Well that one silver dollar died. The rest of the fish were fine at that point.

A few days after the death of the silver dollar, I noticed all of my Rainbow fish became less active/playful. These guys would always swim around and play chase with each other. But now all of them are sitting in the corner 1/2" below the surface. They are not gasping for air but for some reason they are sitting all the way up top. They have not lost their color at all and still eat when I feed them...but go back in the corner up top after feeding. Yesterday one of the rainbows started to swim right up against the filter current and stayed like that since last night. Woke up today in the morning and he is still swimming up against the filter current. The other rainbows are still in the corner up top. When I first noticed this behavior 2 days ago, I did a 35% water change, which did not help. The next day I did another 35% water change and still no improvement.

I also noticed my 2 loaches are constantly flashing against the gravel. Also, my candy pleco is sitting still in the plants and wont move a muscle...just blinks. However, the 2 silver dollars I have left are doing fine, and the redtail shark I have is also doing fine.

I remember adding 2 plastic plants few days ago and I forgot to rinse them before putting them in. They were brand new still in plastic bags. Can there be some kind of residue on these fake plants?

I did all the water tests and everything except the pH level is good. The pH level is around 7.6. The temperature is 77-78 degrees.

Does this sound like there is something in the water or are they infected with something? I don't see any flukes, spots, worms on them, but what about the two loaches that keep flashing against the gravel? can it be from something in the water irritating them? by the way, when I do partial water changes I use StressCoat to remove chlorine and metals from the water.

I don't know what to do next. More water changes? or should I start using meds? I have two 10 gal. buckets. Should I fill them up and transfer the sick fish to them?


Thanks in advance.

[jbeining75]

Test your water and post up the results..... nitrites, nitrates, ph, ammonia..... It almost sounds like oxygen deprivation if they are up in the filter stream and gasping for air....... it could also be poisoning like ammonia or nitrites, check your levels and post so we can help ya out....

[i3k]

I did check the water yesterday and earlier today. No ammonia, no nitrites, pH level is a bit high at 7.6, temperature is at 78 degrees. I have a aqua-clear 300 filter running and even added an air pump before all this started. I don't see the rainbows gasping for air. they are just sitting 1/2" below the surface but no gasping.

[jbeining75]

hmm....... I'm not sure then....... unless they are being bullied around by something else in the tank.............. I am kinda stumped here. Let me think a bit and I'll repost....

[Lady Hobbs]

Water can register fine but still be stale and lacking in oxygen. Fish pee in this water 24/7. How often do you do water changes? And do you have an airstone running.

Sounds as your loaches have ick. Look for salt like spots on them.

[jbeining75]

yeah hes got an airstone.... I still think its oxy depo though.... How big is your tank and what filter are you running??????

[i3k]

There is no bullieng going on they are all peacefull. I removed the plastic plants I added a few days ago just in case they might have something to do with this. I'm thinking of doing another PWC of 35%. I really hope its not something in the water its self. I think I might have to transfer the candy pleco to one of the 10gal. buckets I have. He is just laying there not moving at all. Just yesterday he was swimming around eating algae and looking good.

Thanks for your help.

[jbeining75]

well hes gonna sit there all day they are nocturnal eaters... I'd be more worried about the fish that are up at the top of the tank...... thats where most of the o2 from the return filtration is going to be.......

[i3k]

The tank is a 33gal and im running an aqua-clear 300 which is rated for 70 gal. tanks. And yes I'm also running an air stone. I do water changes of 35% every 10 days.

[i3k]

well hes gonna sit there all day they are nocturnal eaters... I'd be more worried about the fish that are up at the top of the tank...... thats where most of the o2 from the return filtration is going to be.......


but the thing is for the 3 years i've had him...he has never been out of his cave for that long sitting in one spot. if i would come close to the tank he would always hide right away. Now i came inches from the tank staring right at him and he did not even move a bit.

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounds like you're doing everything right. Fish at the top generally mean they are starved for oxygen so I don't know what's up.

[jbeining75]

I don't know first I would suspect either oxygen deprovation, ammonia poisoning, or nitrite poisoning. All your levels are good though...... It might be the oxygen levels in your tank... try to use a powerhead or increase the airstone flow in your tank to see if that helps it out.....

[i3k]

So should I do another PWC? this would be my 3rd in three days.

[jbeining75]

you can get away with about 50% a day for a couple days before it gets bad... I think the problem is the oxygen. Try going to the local fish store and seeing how much a small powerhead is....

[i3k]

Well I did another 35% water change and all the rainbows are still up top...swimming around a bit but still up top. The one rainbow that was swimming up against the filter current has stoped doing that but is now swimming in circles. The loaches seem to be flashing against gravel even more...something is telling me that there is something in the water irritating them as I see no spots on them of any kind but yet with the PWC they are flashing against rocks/gravel even more. I really don't want to use any meds at this point as it may make things alot worse. Anything I can do to relieve the loaches from this irritation? salt? I have aquarium salt from Instant-Ocean I use for my other tank.

[jbeining75]

I do know about instant ocean....... I use API Aquarium salt........ I still think it's the oxy levels, try the powerhead.....

[i3k]

I have another filter laying around I can try running two. But right now the loaches worry me as they are going crazy flashing against the gravel non-stop. If it is in fact oxygen deprivation...would it be a bad idea to use RidIch+? I've used this before a long time ago when these same two loaches were flashing constantly and when I used RidIch+ they were relieved in minutes it seemed. So if I increase surface movement with these two filters, would it be safe to add RidIch?

Thanks.

[jbeining75]

you have to watch loaches with medicine. anything scalelessuse only half the prescribed.... Is it a ich problem... do you see little salt like balls on their body....... try using stress coat to give them some protective slimcoat back.......

[i3k]

I'm not sure it's ich. I don't see anything on their bodies at all...their bodies are very smooth and look colorfull. I always use stresscoat with my water changes.

How about salt? With salt does more oxygen get disolved into the water? I know it helps with stress. But the question is...can these fish deal with aquarium salt? the rainbows, the loaches, the redtail shark, silver dollars and 1 candy pleco?

[jbeining75]

probably very small amounts.............. try the powerhead before you put all kind of chemicals into your water.......

[i3k]

I'll go ahead and take off to a LFS in a few to get one of these power heads. I'll post later with an update.

I thank every one for the help.

[i3k]

I went to a local store and grabbed one of these power heads called PowerSweep 226. So far it has been running for about 45 minutes and I see no improvement. I even lowered the water level a bit for more splash from the filter. The two loaches are going crazy flashing against gravel and shooting across the tank. I need to do something about these loaches quick. Would it be better to raise the temperature to 86 degrees or use RidIch?? Basically which method is safer at this point?

Thanks.

[i3k]

The candy pleco is almost dead =/

I can touch him with my hand and he won't move...barely alive laying on it's side. It sucks when you can't really tell what is happening and why. I did have this pleco for over 4 years though. he's lived a good life and controlled the algae really good.

[i3k]

UPDATE: Well the fish definitely got ICH. Today I took another look at the rainbows and they are COVERED with tiny white spots especially on their tails. One of the rainbows didn't make it =/

I did use ridich+ last night and most of the fish got an instant relief as they didn't flash against the gravel as much. I guess I was too late for the rainbow that died. So I guess the oxygen deprivation was caused by ich attacking the gills first as I didn't see any white spots yesterday, but today they are covered with them. I raised the temp. up another notch today and will bring it up from 82 degrees to 84. Will do another PWC and medicate them with ridich+ again. Hopefully they will clear up fast now that I know whats going on.

Thanks all.

[i3k]

Just did another PWC and fed them a little bit. Looks like all of them still have their appetite. I might hold off the ridich medication and see if the heat will knock off all the white spots. Once all the spots are off the fish, how long should I keep the temp. at 87 degrees for? a week?

Thanks.

[jbeining75]

wow I wouldn't blast it that high maybe 85 and salt the tank a little.......

[jbeining75]

reading through the entire post..... I'm sorry for the loss of the rainbow....... Let the powerhead run, take the carbon outta your filters heat at 85 degrees........ then add aquarium salt to your tank....

[i3k]

I was thinking about the salt, but reading further into it, most recommend not to use salt with loaches in the tank as they are very sensitive to salt.

I have the power head going, an air stone, and the filter. Water level lowered and the temp. is at 84 degrees right now. I will let it climb to 85-86 and leave it at that. Right now 1 of the bigger rainbows is hanging at the bottom. The other big rainbow is still at the top but I've seen him coming to the bottom for a few minutes. The other two smaller rainbows are swimming around a little more then yesterday but still show jerky movements like something is irritating them.

I transfered the candy pleco to a 10gal bucket last night as it looked like he was about to die. Also doing the heat treatment in the bucket. I didn't think he was going to make it but he did =)

The two loaches are still flashing against the gravel constantly, but definitely not as much as yesterday.

Hopefully the heat treatment does the trick without any more deaths.

Thanks.

[Pr0eve]

Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilis)

# Symptoms: Small white spots resembling sand
# Fish scratch against rocks and gravel
# In advanced stages fish become lethargic
# Redness or bloody streaks in advanced stages

Infected fish are covered to various degrees with small white spots. Severe infestations are easy to spot, but small occurrences often go unnoticed. However, ich won't remain unnoticed for long. Like a bad penny, it will be back with a vengeance.

The adult parasite burrows into the skin of its victim, feeding on blood and dead epithelial cells. The irritation caused by the burrowing parasite causes the skin of the fish to swell and produce white cysts seen as a small spots. The fish feels as if it's been bitten by a mosquito. It's not unusual to see infected fish scratching against rocks and gravel in an effort to get relief.
After several days of feasting, the engorged parasite develops into a trophozoite, burrows out of the fish and sinks bottom of the tank. Secreting a soft jellylike substance, it forms a protective membrane inside of which it divides into hundreds of baby parasites, known as tomites. The hungry tomites soon leave their home in search of a fresh fish to dine upon.
It is during the free-swimming stage, which lasts a mere three days, that the parasite is vulnerable to medication. Once it has burrowed into a new host fish it is safely protected from chemicals in the water.


# Treatment: Raise water temperature
# Medicate for 10-14 days
# Reduce medication when treating scaleless fish
# Discontinue carbon filtration during treatment
# Perform water changes between treatments

The entire cycle takes about two weeks from start to finish. Higher temps will shorten the cycle, while low temps lengthen it. Therefore, raising the water temp shortens the time it takes for the parasite to reach the stage in which it is susceptible to medication.
Treatments must be given for a long enough period to assure that all parasites are gone. Watch carefully for other infections, as secondary infections often occur where the skin has been damaged by the parasite. Although nothing kills the parasite once it has checked into it's fish "hotel", several chemicals kill ich once it has left the fish. Malachite green, methylene blue, quinine hydrochloride, and mepracrine hydrochloride are all effective, and are available under several brand names.
Dose based on the package instructions, however cut dosages in half when treating scaleless catfish and tetras. Regardless of the medication used, treatment should be given continuously for 10-14 days to ensure all parasites are killed. Between treatments a partial water change is recommended. Keep water temperatures higher than usual to speed up the life cycle of the parasite. Discontinue carbon filtration during treatment, as it will remove the chemicals.

# Prevention: Quarantine new fish for two weeks
# Treat plants before adding to tank
# Maintain high water quality
# Provide fish with a nutritionally balanced diet

The best way to avoid ich is to quarantine all new fish in a separate tank for two weeks before moving them to the regular tank. When quarantine is not possible, a prophylactic treatment may be used. Either methylene blue or malachite green given when new fish are introduced and again four days later will help reduce incidence of infection. New plants should also be treated, as they can carry ich cysts. Maintaining high water quality, avoiding temperature fluctuations,and providing a robust diet is the best preventative for ich and other diseases.

[i3k]

Thanks for the info Pr0eve. I'll post an update tomorrow.

[i3k]

Well the candy pleco died today =/

The rest of the fish are hanging in there. The temp. is around 86 now and I noticed two of the rainbows are still covered with ich. I fed them a little today and every single fish ate. When should i start seeing less ich with this heat treatment? I have Aquari-Sol and had great success with it before.
If by tomorrow the rainbows are still covered with ich, should I use this aquari-sol?

Thanks.