sex angelfish?

[plow]

Can someone sex my angles?

I have two angels, and I would like to know if they are two males/two females or one of each..

Im trying to get a breeding pair, of wild type. I have no experience and have no idea what I would do with any fry even if I managed to get the little wrigglers to survive a month or so, but who cares, I want a breeding pair..

My problem is I can't sex them, and I dont know what to look for..

here is a photo of my current two. I think I know what they are but would like to hear form any experts out there.. or if anyone knows of any experts out there that are good at sexing angles could you please forward this post on to them as I would love to have someone confirm it for me.

These guys are about 6 months old... they are not adults as experienced people would see. They also have fantastic markings, vivid silver and grey/black stripes that do not show in this photo since when they come to the front of the tank their colourings pretty much disappear, its something to do with the lighting.

anyway, all comments welcome.

[Tolley]

Mitcore would probably know as she breeds them, but shes absent atm.. Someone will help though.

BTW those are real nice angels!

[Dave66]

The one in the front is a male. He's slightly smaller bodied and has darker markings than the female. Its easy to pick out even at that age as I've kept and bred dozens of angel fish over the years.

Dave

[Fishalicious]

Woot Dave... sexing Angels is one thing I still cannot get down... I have made a few mistakes over the years. I had one with a huuuge hump on the forehead - male I thought - laid eggs 3 months later ... hmmmmm

Gonna grab my camera see if you can sex mine LOL :ezpi_wink1: :ezpi_wink1:

[NickFish]

WOW really nice angels! POTM?

[Tolley]

lol jus re-read the title of this thread. haha

[supun]

Dave, do you mean the one on the left in the pic is the male because it has a dark black stripe near its tail?

Is that how you tell? Is the male generally smaller than the female??

[plow]

The one in the front is a male. He's slightly smaller bodied

Dave

the one in front I think is younger.. they came from different shops, different parents (I assume). However are you comparing body size to fin size?


and has darker markings than the female.

Dave

If I was to describe these two fish to anyone I would have said the exact opposite.

The fish on the right has much darker markings than the one on the left. (The photo does not show this due to lighting) This is what I dont get. Markings are so all over the place due to fancy strains of breeding that some breeds are naturally lighter/darker than others. So how can sexing be done on colour? Are angels with albino genetics all females?

These two are not brother and sister, so I dont get how darker markings will make one of these male and one female.

And then if I was to use this technique I would have said the fish on the right was the male. Its just that the lighting makes a mess of thier markings when they are sitting at the front of the tank.

These guys were so good, they sat at the front of the tank like this for nearly five minutes sitting completely still while I took photos...

anyway Dave, I had thought the fish in front was male simply from behaviour, he has been an aggressive little guy to any other angels that have been through this aquarium, hes bullied a few untill they became stressed/sick and I removed them (were they also males maybe?) This one he is with now is the first he has "accepted" as a tank mate. They have been together only a few days now but there is still a bit of niggle going on between them.

cheers for the opinion anyway, its all good. :thumb:

[Dave66]

the one in front I think is younger.. they came from different shops, different parents (I assume). However are you comparing body size to fin size?



If I was to describe these two fish to anyone I would have said the exact opposite.

The fish on the right has much darker markings than the one on the left. (The photo does not show this due to lighting) This is what I dont get. Markings are so all over the place due to fancy strains of breeding that some breeds are naturally lighter/darker than others. So how can sexing be done on colour? Are angels with albino genetics all females?

These two are not brother and sister, so I dont get how darker markings will make one of these male and one female.

And then if I was to use this technique I would have said the fish on the right was the male. Its just that the lighting makes a mess of thier markings when they are sitting at the front of the tank.

These guys were so good, they sat at the front of the tank like this for nearly five minutes sitting completely still while I took photos...

anyway Dave, I had thought the fish in front was male simply from behaviour, he has been an aggressive little guy to any other angels that have been through this aquarium, hes bullied a few untill they became stressed/sick and I removed them (were they also males maybe?) This one he is with now is the first he has "accepted" as a tank mate. They have been together only a few days now but there is still a bit of niggle going on between them.

cheers for the opinion anyway, its all good. :thumb:

You can tell by the build. If you look closely, male angels are more gracile than females. When they are adults its much more pronounced.
It's never certain which sex is the more aggressive in angels; they can each be real sweethearts, then either one can do the Jeckle and Hyde thing and turn into a holy terror in the tank.

Dave

[mitcore]

dave is right male at the front and female at the back,
the males have a straight line under the mouth to the dorsal fins and the females are round, you will also find the females are smaller then the males and in the pic the one to the back looks smaller, though it could just be the pic,

thanks for the recommendation tolley you are awesome buddy

dave got it right

[plow]

dave is right male at the front and female at the back,

dave got it right

oh well thats cool you guys agree..



the males have a straight line under the mouth to the dorsal fins and the females are round,

Man I must be blind I dont see any line thats straight between the bottom of the mouth and dorsal fin. I dont see a round line either..

Im such an amateur. Is the line a black marking or is it the shape of the body? Is it across the top of the nose or under the eye?



you will also find the females are smaller then the males and in the pic the one to the back looks smaller, though it could just be the pic,


Do you reckon the one on the back (right hand side) looks smallest? I reckon in this photo it looks bigger, and in real life it is a bigger fish but only just.

I also think the one at the back is older, they did not come from the same batch so I guessed the size difference would have come from age difference, leading me to think the one at the back is the oldest.



I do beleive you guys, Im not doubting your judgement, but I still have no idea how to sex an angel....

(gosh didn't that sound bad... shame on me...)

[plow]

dave is right male at the front and female at the back,
the males have a straight line under the mouth to the dorsal fins

I've been thinking about this all day mitcore and it suddenly dawned on me....

are you sure you dont mean the pelvic fins?

I was wondering why you wrote dorsal fins when most fish only have one dorsal fin.

Is this what you meant?

[Lady Hobbs]

Either way, if you have a pair that is constantly together then you pretty much have a pair. With my angels, the male always followed the female. She never followed him. He went everywhere she went and hung in there every move she made but you will be able to tell soon enough at breeding time.

They are pretty and make me miss having angels again. Separate the parents from the spawn unless you want the eggs eaten.

[mitcore]

sorry so you are right
my mistake i meant the fin under the body,

i am having a bad brain day LOL

[plow]

hey no problems mitcore you've been a great help.

My two angels are hanging out a lot together as Hobbs suggested so it sounds like I could be onto a pair. quite a bit of niggle going on but its not totally vicious and neither seems to be getting injured or stressed, so it seems to be good news so far.

I'll try and get another photo soon showing their markings, the photo here makes them look very pale and they are not like that at all.

[Lady Hobbs]

The second one is noticeably larger so Dave is correct and he certainly knows more about this than I do. I take it they're about the same age? You know, my pairs never fought at all. Others claim theirs lip -locked and went thru the struggle of the female testing the male. I had angels do plenty of fighting but never a pair. Two just started hanging together and that was it.

But I did have to pop back in this thread to tell you you should submit that picture in POTM. It's a good photo.

[plow]

No i don't think they are the same age.

these two fish came from different shops at different times. I have assumed that the one of the right is older since it is bigger. (only by a little bit)

[mitcore]

here is a pic of my male
he is straight on so you can see what i am talking about, just under his mouth to the bottom fins under him( i dont know what the long thin fins are called sorry), you will see that the line is straight, in the female it is rounder, i am sorry my girl is not facing you to be able to see it, hopefully the pic helps to explain how to sex an angel, his name is lemon and in between the 2 angel are fry, only specs in this pic though

[plow]

thanks mitcore, I see what you are talking about.. (they are called the pelvic fins, apparently they are used for steering)

Still you guys must have well trained eyes for this, I guess its something learnt through time. I reckon I would still struggle to pick it if I was shown angels and asked to sex them.

[plow]

here is another photo.. this one shows better markings on the angel to the right..

Hopefully here you can see it is the darker fish.. would that make it a male also or are you guys sure its a female?

[Lady Hobbs]

Angels are so photogenic, aren't they?

Plow I changed the name of this thread because it kept giving me a heart attack as it was written before. LOL

[plow]

Angels are so photogenic, aren't they?

Plow I changed the name of this thread because it kept giving me a heart attack as it was written before. LOL


thats ok hobbs, I wasn't exactly getting hundreds of offers so it wasn't really working anyway lol...

yeah these two are right posers.. they sat there for more than 5 minutes, completely still.... probably watching me... thinking oh isn't it nice to keep a few humans outside our tank, they have very odd behaviour dont they..

[mitcore]

great pic
the front is the male and the back is the female

i love your angels they are so very pretty