Sand Question

[nutsfu]

Hello everyone. I've decided to use sand as the substrate for my new tank. I've been calling local pool supply stores looking for one that has silica pool filter sand, and I came across something called KRYSTALITE.

The description on the website says:
KRYSTALITE™ is made of 100% natural minerals. Superior replacement for silica sand, zeolite and glass sand in all swimming pool filters. It is non-allergenic, non-toxic, contains no chemicals and is bio-degradable. A natural environmentally safe product.

Is this safe to use in an aquarium, or should I just keep searching for silica sand?

[Algenco]

just ask for a bag of grade 20 pool sand

[NickFish]

or just use play sand, or aquarium sand, whatever you get make sure to really wash it before adding to your tank.

[jbeining75]

This is a good post for me to watch. I am setting up my 120 in April and because of the rockwork weight I am probably gonna have to go with sand. I don't want 120 gallons of water in my living room. I have heard silica sand stays at the bottom but wash it really well so it doesn't cloud the water.

[sailor]

The pool filter sand I found and have used for almost all my tanks is Unimin silica sand @ 12.99 for a 50 lb bag. I picked it up at a pool and spa shop. It is very white and was very clean. The first time I used it I rinsed out in buckets but found no silt. The next tank I set up I didn't rinse and there was no silt or residue and did not mess up the water at all. It is heavy enough that it doesn't stay up in the water column. I have only found any in 1 filter and that's because the trophs were spitting it right into the intake for the filter. A sponge cover took care of that. All in all I have been very happy with it.

[Pr0eve]

home depot sales it.. my local pool shop does not sale it, so they told me to go to home depot..

[country_boy454]

Another option is to use sand blasting sand. I have that in my 42 gallon. Didn't take very long to clean either.

[Fishguy2727]

Just go with aquarium sand. Estes' does not need to be cleaned at all. Many non-aquarium use sands have silica dust, a carcinogen (just read the bag for the warning that it may cause cancer). I see no reason to risk cancer and spend time washing when there are options out there as cheap as gravel that do not have these downsides.

[nutsfu]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. After contacting a few more local pool supply stores, I found one that has silica sand ($7 for 50 lbs). I had never heard the warning about cancer before. I guess I'll have to do a little more reading up on it.
How much does the Estes sand cost?

[Bobo the Clown Loach]

From my painful painful experience I avoid sand like the plague. I initially set up my 36 gal with sand. It almost killed my filter and I couldn't get a plant to stay in the sand, it kept getting dug up by my corys. I wouldn't recommend sand, but that's just me.

[Fishguy2727]

The LFS I work at sells Estes' Marine Sand for $4 a bag (5 pound bags). It is not actually true marine sand. It is a pre-washed, polymer coated silica sand. This is a tad more expensive than the gravel per pound, but in general you don't use as much. This brings the total cost down to about the cost of gravel, maybe less.

I considered trying hardware store sand, but after reading the bag and hearing about all the cleaning I gave Estes' a shot. I am VERY glad I did.

You can read my article on sand in my blog.

[Algenco]

The LFS I work at sells Estes' Marine Sand for $4 a bag (5 pound bags). It is not actually true marine sand. It is a pre-washed, polymer coated silica sand. This is a tad more expensive than the gravel per pound, but in general you don't use as much. This brings the total cost down to about the cost of gravel, maybe less.

I considered trying hardware store sand, but after reading the bag and hearing about all the cleaning I gave Estes' a shot. I am VERY glad I did.

You can read my article on sand in my blog.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out the Estes sand is repackaged 3M cokorquartz

[Fishguy2727]

I think it is. If you go to their site I think they have that too.

Is that bad? I'm guessing it just costs more in the aquarium packaging. Where would you get the the 3M colorquartz?

[shockshockshad]

I got just regular playsand and I washed it and put it in the tank and ealized I didn't need to wash it at all. I can just put some straight from the bag and put it in and it sinks right to the bottom. I can also stir it up and nothing clouds.

The disease is the longest word it the world (literally). Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicavolcanoconiosis. I learned that in 4th grade. I don't know why she taught it. lol.
I personally have only used playsand, so I can't help you if its good or not.

@ Bobo: Only some plants can root in sand, and cories LOVE digging up and burying themselves in sand. Many aquarists buy sand specifically for that purpose.

[Fishguy2727]

What plants can't root in sand?

[Algenco]

I think it is. If you go to their site I think they have that too.

Is that bad? I'm guessing it just costs more in the aquarium packaging. Where would you get the the 3M colorquartz?

I've heard $14-18 per 50#.
There is a locater on the site to find distributors in your area
fyi, Tahitian Moon Sand is S grade black colorquartz. Most people prefer the T grade, about the same size as Grade 20 pool sand

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[nutsfu]

After doing some research, I think I'll stay away from silica sand.
Unfortunately for me, the 3M colorquartz site does not have a distrubutor near me. So I'll keep researching online and looking for a source of safe and suitable sand for aquarium use.

I did find some Safe play sand at safesand.com.
White version:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

Multi Colored versions:
[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

But I dont know how well it will work for an aquarium, as in, will it cloud the water if stirred or just instantly sink back down to the bottom.

Is there a white or "regular" sand-colored version of Tahitian Moon Sand? Does anyone have a link to an online vendor?

[nutsfu]

I think I found the perfect source for all colors and several grades of 3M Colorquartz.

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

If this is the correct type of sand that is safe and won't cloud the water (is heavy and sinks to the bottom easily) I will be placing an order later on tonight for some S grade white colorquartz (50 lbs for $24.35).

[nutsfu]

Since my last post in this thread I have ordered 2 bags of white S grade colorquartz. I spent all weekend trying to set up my tank to begin a fishless cycle, but the colorquartz isn't cooperating.

The way I attempted to clean the colorquartz was to put about 2-4 inches into a 5 gallon bucket. Then I put it under some running water as I stirred it up with my hand. Then I would pour out the cloudy water and repeat the process about 5-6 times. The water still wasn't running clear after I stirred it up in the bucket. But I would give up on each bucket-full after about 6 attempts to clean it.

I put all the sand into the tank and filled it with a python. The water was so cloudy/milky that I couldn't see the back of the tank from the front (18 inches). I let it sit still like this (no filters running) for 24 hours hoping that it would clear up; it didn't, not even a little bit.

I did 2 back-to-back 95% water changes to get the water clear (but not perfectly clear). Next I let it sit like that for another 24 hours (with the filters running this time). The water remained about the same pretty clear but not entirely clear. I started doing some other work in the tank such as positioning silk plants, rocks, caves, burying heaters, etc. then I noticed that the water was a little cloudy again. So I did another 90% water change to get it clear again.

How can I stop this sand from making the water cloudy. Its actually more milky than cloudy. The sand itself is pretty heavy, I can siphon it with the python and it doesn't get sucked out of the tank. I could even bury the tube all the way into the bottom of the sand and it won't easily suck it out. You would have to keep the tube in the sand for a while before the sand made its way all the way to the top.

That last time that I did the 90% water change, I would bury the siphon into the sand and I could see the milky water being pulled out from the sand.

Will colorquartz ever stop making the water milky? Is the milky water bad for fish (don't worry there are no fish in the tank yet, and there wont be for some time). I'm getting scared that I may have to throw it all out and start over with some gravel.

I currently have some colorquartz in a bucket that I have repeatedly: run water through, stirred, poured out cloudy water, repeat. After about 8 repetitions the water is still just as cloudy after I stir it up. I am going to leave this sand in the bucket and continue tomorrow to see how many times it will turn the water milky.

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This is a pic of what the tank looked like before I did the last 90% water change.

[Fishguy2727]

It should clear up before too long. This is why I have stuck with Estes' Marine Sand, I know it is completely clean.

[hpt84]

I have no experience with that type of sand. I use playsand (50lbs for 5 us dollar). I rinse the sand for like 10-15 times and it was clear after that. If it continues to be like that, I would dump it and get playsand.

[gemini69]

Hmm...that's weird. I don't know anything about the type of sand you used as I used Silica sand and only had to rinse it about 4 times and the water was and still remains absolutely clear.

Sorry for your troubles--I can imagine your frustration because that sounds like a lot of work and now you're still in a bit of a pickle. I hope someone else can help you.

[nutsfu]

It should clear up before too long. This is why I have stuck with Estes' Marine Sand, I know it is completely clean.

I thought that Estes Marine Sand was the same as colorquartz. If you take some of the the Estes Sand and stir it vigorously, does it get cloudy again and again, thats whats happening with the white colorquartz. Maybe I just shouldnt stir it. :stongue:

I know that I bought the right stuff because when I ordered online, a representative called me to confirm my order. She asked me if it was for a fish tank and told me that they get orders now and then for aquariums.

I have no experience with that type of sand. I use playsand (50lbs for 5 us dollar). I rinse the sand for like 10-15 times and it was clear after that. If it continues to be like that, I would dump it and get playsand.

I really hope I don't have to start over, hopefully I can get it resolved with some more cleaning.

[Fishguy2727]

I heard it was the same too. It is not dirty at all. You can pour it in, stir it up, you get nothing. It sounds like the Estes' Marine Sand is cleaned for the purpose of the aquarium, whereas the colorquartz is not because in general it is not used for that purpose.

[nutsfu]

:ssad: This stuff isn't working out for me.
Last night I tried another experiment. I put one cup of colorquartz into a clear plastic container added a little water and sealed it with an airtight lid. I shook it vigorously, poured out the milky water, added new water and repeated. I continued this for about an hour and there is NO CHANGE to how milky/cloudy the water gets. I then poured the sand into a crystal clear glass bowl, added some water, stirred it a little to get the water a little cloudy, and let it sit overnight. In the morning the water was exactly the same as when I left it.

Aside from the clouding, the colorquartz looks great, settles quickly to the bottom, and can even be siphoned.
But since mine can’t be cleaned, no matter how much I try; even when working on just a small cup-full; I’m going to give up.
I think that I may have gotten some bad colorquartz, because everything I’ve read, in multiple forums, says that this stuff is the best. It’s almost as if the color coating is continuously coming off the quartz/sand.

This weekend I will attempt to get it all out of the tank and clean everything up. The white milky stuff leaves a residue on everything, and my filters have been running. :smad:

I did some looking around last night and I found a place that sells white Estes sand for use with freshwater setups. It’s about $17 for 30 lbs, and I need about 75 lbs.
I am a little nervous about buying it after this experience. Fishguy2727 can you just reassure me again as to how easy Estes is to clean, did you have any cloudy water, even when you first used it.
Yours won’t cloud at all, no matter how much you stir, shake, or abuse it?
Thanks for all your help.

[Tooch]

The sand that I used I rinsed about 10 times/bucket. it still remained a little cloudy, but not bad. Once I stuck it in my tank, I let the tank sit for 3 days. After that, it was pretty much clear, maybe still just a smidge milky. I put the filter in the tank, and it cleared up. I' would actually just give it some time. If you really stir things up, mine still wants to get cloudy. But it never gets stirred up in the tank, so I don't worry about it!

[nutsfu]

The sand that I used I rinsed about 10 times/bucket. it still remained a little cloudy, but not bad. Once I stuck it in my tank, I let the tank sit for 3 days. After that, it was pretty much clear, maybe still just a smidge milky. I put the filter in the tank, and it cleared up. I' would actually just give it some time. If you really stir things up, mine still wants to get cloudy. But it never gets stirred up in the tank, so I don't worry about it!

Thanks for the advise. I will leave it alone until the weekend and see what happens.
I did turn on the filters last night and today the water seems a little cloudier than when the filters were off and the water was still. I am using an AC110 and an Eheim 2028, neither of them has carbon. Maybe I should try adding carbon to the AC110 and see if that clears up the water.

[Fishguy2727]

Carbon will not remove particulates from the water, mechanical media does that. You may just need to run a fine mechanical or polishing media. In your filters I would use polyester pillow stuffing in the Eheim for this. Cram it in as tight as you can in the tray after your course mechanical.

[Asphenaz]

I wonder if it may be the grade of sand you purchased that might be the culprit? I see that you ordered "S" type, maybe you had to use the "T" type.

I don't have any experience with aquarium sand, so maybe one of the more experience members might shed a bit of light on sand types.

Another bit of advice, thought this time I have lots of experience on the subject; NEVER trust a sales rep, ever!

(Sorry if there are any sales reps on this board)

[nutsfu]

Carbon will not remove particulates from the water, mechanical media does that. You may just need to run a fine mechanical or polishing media. In your filters I would use polyester pillow stuffing in the Eheim for this. Cram it in as tight as you can in the tray after your course mechanical.

Damn, I wish I would have read this before I put the Carbon in. I actually took some poly-fill out of the AC110 to get the carbon to fit. The tank is actually a little cloudier now, after the carbon.

I'll take the sand out of the tank this weekend and try to clean it in buckets one more time. Then I'll put it back in the tank for all of next week. If it doesn't improve, I'll be replacing it with Estes.

I wonder if it may be the grade of sand you purchased that might be the culprit? I see that you ordered "S" type, maybe you had to use the "T" type.

I don't have any experience with aquarium sand, so maybe one of the more experience members might shed a bit of light on sand types.

Another bit of advice, thought this time I have lots of experience on the subject; NEVER trust a sales rep, ever!

(Sorry if there are any sales reps on this board)

I agree with you on the sales rep stuff :ssmile:
But she actually didn't try to sell me the stuff, she just asked me if I was ordering for an aquarium. She probably knew because I only ordered 100 pounds. They deal with construction supplies, so their normal orders for this stuff are probably by the 1,000's of pounds. :ssuprised:

I chose the S grade over the T grade because it is smaller, smoother and more uniform. The T grade is supposed to be rougher and the grains vary in size from being much larger to much smaller than S grade (according to what I've read).

Well, I'll just work on it some more this weekend, add poly-fill back into the AC110, and add more poly-fill into the Ehiem.
I'll keep you guys posted.

[jdmvette]

that sucks that you are having these issues. i converted over to sand last saturday. i used pool filter sand that i got at my local pool supply shop. the results are awesome, i have no issues with clouding and i'm very happy.

[jdmvette]

that sucks that you are having these issues. i converted over to sand last saturday. i used pool filter sand that i got at my local pool supply shop. the results are awesome, i have no issues with clouding and i'm very happy.

[nutsfu]

Thats it, I give up.
I spent all of last weekend working on this sand and I see very little to no change in the cloudiness of the water.

I took all 75 pounds of sand out of the tank, washed about 15-20 pounds of it and put it back into the tank. But I didn't just do a quick little rinsing, I spent about 20-30 minutes thoroughly cleaning each bucket load (about 2 pounds at a time). I cleaned it by blasting it with a high pressure stream of water, over and over again, until the water came out crystal clear.
When I put it back in the tank the water was very cloudy (how is that possible after the water was running clear as I blasted it with water). I did two water changes to get the water clean again and then let it sit for 24 hours. The water was still clear so I decided to stir it up a little........CLOUDY WATER!!!!
I'm going to order some of that Estes sand that Fishguy2727 recommends.

Even if there are cheaper sands out there, I just don't want to deal with cleaning sand ever again. I wasted too many hours on that these last couple of weeks. I want to get on with it already, finish setting up the tank and begin my fishless cycle. :smad:

[doug z]

Wow..

What a hassle! I'm getting frustrated just READING this.. LOL

Sorry, man, that sucks..

[cocoa_pleco]

yeah, thats the reason i get brand name sand, like hagens geosystem, it doesnt cloud and you dont have to wash it

[Tigerbarb]

You should put as much water movement as possible in your tank, like a powerhead or bubbler, and an HOB. That might keep the cloudy particles from floating in one spot all day.

[cocoa_pleco]

or you could get some of that water clearing stuff that clumps the small particles together, like the product P-clear

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[hpt84]

I am sorry for your bad experience with sand. Hopefully your new batch will be better.

[sailor]

I guess I have lucked out as I have not had any issues with my sand. Hopefully you get it sorted out.

[nutsfu]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, but I've had it with trying to clean colorquartz. I placed an order for Estes sand last night. :shappy:
I'll let you guys know how it works out when it arrives.

[fins_n_fur]

You're bound not to have issues...you simply can't after what you just went through :c12: Fingers-crossed!

[nutsfu]

I am trying to get my tank ready for when the new sand arrives. Today I removed all the old sand but now I can see the white residue left behind from it. What is the best way to clean the glass (inside) to get rid of the cloudy water residue. I will also have to clean out my filters (there is no bacteria in them yet).
I know I cant use any detergents for any of these things, so what method do you guys recommend for cleaning everything?

[Fishguy2727]

You can take the big gravel vacuum off of the siphon hose and use just the hose to vacuum it up.

[nutsfu]

You can take the big gravel vacuum off of the siphon hose and use just the hose to vacuum it up.

I already removed all the sand, now I need just to clean the white residue off of the glass. Any suggestions on how I can clean it without using soaps or detergents?

[Fishguy2727]

Algae pad or razor. You can use the previously described method to get any loose small stuff that is not coming up with the regular gravel vacuum part of the siphon hose.

[hpt84]

Maybe some vinegar? It is acidic and safe for the aquarium.

[nutsfu]

Algae pad and vinegar to clean glass; and siphon hose without tube for getting remaining sand particles, cool.
I'll get the tank cleaned this weekend, Estes sand should arrive early next week.

[nutsfu]

I finally got some Estes Sand.
When I put it in the tank it seems to clump together around little air bubbles. Some of the bubbles (encased in sand) float to the top, some pop and some don't. For the bubbles that pop, the sand that was stuck to the bubble floats on the surface of the water. If I knock the sand from the surface it immediately sinks.
Does anybody know how I can stop the sand from clumping. I'm afraid to turn on my canister filter because the floating bubbles with sand can get sucked in.
Note that the sand doesn't float on it own (it sinks pretty quickly), only when attached to little bubbles.

[Fishguy2727]

Just spend a little while tapping the surface. They need to all be submerged before they will sink. Some bubbles will have so much sand stuck to them that the bubble sinks, so you just see a blob of sand on the bottom. Just keep reminding yourself 'I could be cleaning for days, or tap the surface for a little while'.

[nutsfu]

That’s a relief, I’m glad to hear that it’s normal for this sand to behave that way. I thought I had some more bad sand. I’ll keep tapping out the bubbles until my next shipment of sand arrives.
The place that I ordered from messed up my order and only sent me one-third of the amount of sand I ordered (I called them up and they said they would correct that). Just another delay, but its all part of this hobby.