it just got worse

[mitcore]

here i was thinking losing 5 fish a day was bad
i just pulled 8 fish from my 3ft comm tank,
and then did a 20% water change
i know you all are propbably getting tired of my having a cry on here but
i dont know what else to do
if this keeps up there will be no fish left, my stock is dropping faster then i can fix

i am sorry all

please help

[shockshockshad]

I can't help with the fish problem, but I can try to make you feel better. Just keep trying. Myabe even start over. I really feel sorry for you. Really. I know I would start crying too if that happened to me. I really feel bad for you. Things will get better, I know they will. At least I hope they will.

[Incredulous_Ed]

mitcore, Im so sorry to hear all this. Maybe you can start over with different fish. Just keep up the water changes and hope for the ebst.

[squirt_12]

sorry to hear that mitcore :( Just keep thinking positive things and keep up with water changes. Hope for the best

[Dave66]

here i was thinking losing 5 fish a day was bad
i just pulled 8 fish from my 3ft comm tank,
and then did a 20% water change
i know you all are propbably getting tired of my having a cry on here but
i dont know what else to do
if this keeps up there will be no fish left, my stock is dropping faster then i can fix

i am sorry all

please help

Mitcore,
I get the impression that your tank params are fine, but your fish are dropping dead for no apparent reason? Stick the tip of your pinkie finger into the water. If you feel a little tingle there's an electrical leak somewhere in the tanks. Since you've had the fish quite a while and thus parasitical sources are unlikely (without symptoms before death), stray voltage can cause the effect you describe. Fish have a slight electrical field coming from the lateral line that helps them navigate, and stray voltage really messes them up.
Water is corrosive, so any wire is suspect of making a connection, especially with an iron stand, of electrifying the water a bit.

Dave

[mitcore]

i will do check now and let you all now, i just got of the phine from hubby and told him if they are die then i am starting over with agressive cichlids, i figure i cant stuff that up,

i am so upset,

[mitcore]

nope no tingle, i felt nothing at all in there dave

[muffin]

Hang in there mitcore. It'll work out.. I wish you the best

[sailor]

How long has this problem been going on mitcore? Have you changed your routine at all, or started with any new product since you started loosing fish.

[Lady Hobbs]

Mitcore, try to do bigger water changes than just 20%. If your water parms are off, 20% will do nothing. Don't be afraid to do some big water changes like 50-75% if that's what it takes.

Have you checked your temp gauge to see if your heater is working properly or over heating?
How about oxygen? Do you have a good flow from your filter or a bubbler going?

[cocoa_pleco]

keep doing 75% WC, thats all you can do.

[mitcore]

the tanks have been running a few yrs, no i have changed nothin and other then ph down and hardness salt i dont add any other chemical, now that i have said that i have used those since the tanks started running, i need to my tap water is too soft and to high a ph level, hobbs, the air flow is great mirco bubbles all the way through, the heater was new just 2 weeks ago, and temp is holding well, guage isnt out i have checked the temp with an electronic gauge, other then that i have done nothing different,

i am thinking about catching what fish are left and putting them in a box for a short period of time with a air hose and empting the tank completely and starting again, after a good tank clean and gravel wash out,


you can all see why this is getting to me nothing has changed in my routine
thanks all

[Lady Hobbs]

OH OH........pH down? Now I would have to think that right there might be your problem. Fish can't take the see-saw effect of pH being up and down all the time. They will do fine with a higher pH than you'd like if it is stable and that way all the time. If you are constantly adjusting it, that could well be your problem.

Also, pH should never be adjusted more than .2 points in any 24 hour period. If you have say 8.0 pH and you are bringing it down to 7.2 with chemicals, you are shocking the fish.

And what in heck is hardness salt?

[gm72]

I'm with Lady on this one. pH down-type chemicals are usually bad news. I will also ask when the last time you did a good cleaning of the filters?

[mitcore]

sure did gm and in tank water i never clean the filter in tap water i have heard it kills the good bactria

hardness salt controls the hardness of the water, in my case my tap water is too soft so i add 1/2 tea spoon to every second bucket that i put back into the water, i also watch this with a test kit,

if i have a ph of 8.5 which is where my tap water is at it will kill all the fish, i dont own any fish that even if i dont drop the ph that will survive, they will all die from the high( very) ph, it seems i am stuck between a rock and a hard place at the moment

[Lady Hobbs]

Now I am even more confused. Salt does not make the water harder. It doesn't change it at all. (To my knowledge) Hope someone corrects me here.

Marine salt, I think, does but not regular salt for freshwater. Hummmm......maybe I'm wrong. It's late and I can't think! It doesn't change the pH, that much I'm sure of, at least. LOL

[fraggle]

Hey Mit did you get some dechlorinator?

[mitcore]

being to sick and flat out with the sick kids, fraggle but i promise i will do it asap,

i will take a pic hobbs and you can have a look at the hardness salt

[gobbles]

This happened in my community tank. My fish slowed died off one and two at a time. I cleaned the tank out good washed all the gravel, decorations, everything and bought some new fish. They died too. No clue what caused it so I went out and bought 12 rosy reds, and only one of them died so I slowly added fish back. Now they all seem to be very healthy, and I even have magic fish(the one that appeared out of nowhere)

[mitcore]

ok here is a pic sorry about the quailty but you can see it say aquarium salt mix for hardening tap water

and here is what else the pkt says

on heaped tea spoon per 10 litrea increases general hardness by about 100mg/L

a specfic blend of salts designed to render soft tap water suitable for fesh water fish

for discus use 1/2 tspper 10L, tetras 1 tsp per 10L, american cichlids 1 1/2 tsp per 10L, goldfish up to 2 1/2 tsp per 10L, african cichlids, mollies, guppies up to 3 tsp per 10L, plants may be affected by above levels above 200mg/L

[Harls]

Mitcore Ring the LFS and see if they ave any spare tanks avliable and ask they will rent u one! if so u can start all over again and see what happens.

[cocoa_pleco]

Mitcore Ring the LFS and see if they ave any spare tanks avliable and ask they will rent u one! if so u can start all over again and see what happens.

exactly what i was thinking, just ask them if you could board your fish there for a week, and in the meantime give the tanks a good clean and run them

[mitcore]

i would love to fellows, but they dont do that here in fear that your fish are diseased, it sucks, and the only tank i have free is the grow out tank and it is about to be filled with angel fry, plus it is only 1ft long to small for the big fish i have

thanks anyway it was a great idea

[Harls]

well can the angel babies wait and ask any friends with aquariums. u know the bigboxes made of plastic u buy froma cheapie store? they make a great temp home just give it a good wash!

[mitcore]

thats exactly what i was going to get harls, but stupid me couldnt think of the name of the boxes. i can get heaps from the LFS, they get all thier fish in them, they are great, but no air so i will have to run a air pump in them, and nope the angels cant wait much longer the poor parents are being weakened by them,

thanks for the name of those boxes harls,

[AquaBANG]

mitcore, sorry about the losses, I am sure you can turn it around. good luck...

[mitcore]

thanks sud, i am hoping too

[KcEE]

What boxes mitcore? Styrofoam boxes?

[Demi ^_^]

Um, are they the big plastic ones at the many stores that you 2 are talking about? If so, they should be really good! I bought a HUGE one for $10 when I was breeding rats - It would make a fantastic 'fish-breeding' tank now, I must say! Goodluck!

[sailor]

In Canada there is a company that calls them rubbermaid totes. They make great temporary homes. i have used them in the past. I have 1 that is labeled fish only.

[Dixie]

That's what they are called here in the US too. My hubby works at Rubbermaid. There are cheaper plastic totes than Rubbermaid brand ones though (shhhh I didn't say that lol). Rubbermaid is better quality though and would hold up better over the years. Sure do wish you luck from here on and so sorry about your losses. Hope you and yours feels better soon too.

[Lady Hobbs]

Girl, you have a problem with that water alright. Thanks for the hardness salt as I hadn't heard of it.

I wonder if you might be trying to lower that pH too much. Taking it from 8.2 to 7.0 is a heck of a lot. My fish live in 7.6 and do fine so I don't feel you need to try taking it down that much.

I think you need to be thinking about cichlids altho many of those don't like the pH that high either and you'll have to research some to find those that do.

Do you have water filling stations there? You could buy a few gallons of water and refill them at those machines for next to nothing but I also realize with a bad leg and sick babies you won't want to bother with that. I know I wouldn't. Rain water will lower pH but who the heck knows when it will rain.

They need to come out with some miracle gravel that will LOWER pH. Imagine how much of it they'd sell? Wood helps lower pH but not enough to count on doing much. Running peat in a bag thru the filter helps lower it some, as well.

But I honestly think you are forcing too many chemicals in your tank and trying to adjust it too much. I think what I would do (since your fish are dying anyway) is do a 75% water change (when you have dechlorinator) and just leave the water alone. See what makes it and what doesn't. If they live in untreated water, then those are the fish you can get.

My theory is fish will live in what I have or they won't live at all.

Change your filters when they get dirty so your nitrates don't get too high.....but, if you are going to empty your tank and start over, leave it as is for now.

[Lady Hobbs]

Mitcore, here we are again. I was just reading thru these posts again and just saw fraggles post to you about dechlorinator. I missed it previously.

Please do not tell me you have not been using dechlorinator. Water with chlorine will kill every bit of the bacteria you have been growing in the gravel and the filters. This will set your tank back. What I am thinking since seeing that post now is not only has your tank been set back but also too many chemicals are being used. If you now have ammonia/nitrites in your tank a 20% water change is not nearly enough but too much without dechlorinator.

Dechlorinator is a must!

[jbeining75]

Sorry about the bad luck with your fish. Everyone is here to help and support you. I know you'll get it turned around.

[mitcore]

thanks all
yes the boxes are styro foam,

i feel like you just smacked my bum hobbs, LOL i am sorry i dont use the decholrinator, i told fraggle i will when i get a chance to get to the shops, it is a hell house at home at the moment, i cant even sit long enough to chat long to you lot,

i am taking on all of the advice handed to me, and i am very grateful for all the ideas and help

thanks guys and gals

[shockshockshad]

thanks all

i feel like you just smacked my bum hobbs, LOL i am sorry i dont use the decholrinator, i told fraggle i will when i get a chance to get to the shops, it is a hell house at home at the moment, i cant even sit long enough to chat long to you lot,


Well, that might be why your fish are dying! Get some dechlorinator and see what happens! If you don't use dechlor, I bet you are letting the water sit. That gets rid of chlorine, but not chlorimines. Chlorimines are a combo of chlorine and ammonia- very toxic. If you don't do anything at all, well, then thats a problem......

[mitcore]

i am checking it out hopefully tom or the day after thanks all

[fraggle]

Hope you all get well soon Mit, :1luvu: you really do need to get the tap water conditioner, as otherwise it is just making it happen over and over again, each time you do a water change, you are in a between a rock and a hard place without it aren't you? :scry: Cause you need to do the water changes to get help even out the water levels, but without the conditioner it's just adding to the problem, yet without doing one the ammonia will get them!! So sorry Mitcore! Wish I could help! If I was near I could lend you a tank, but 800km is a bit far!:ssmile: Hope you get EVERYTHING sorted soon honey, good luck:l10:

[RichBowyer]

I think because my job has me testing water a couple hrs a day I tend to not test as ofter as I should at home.

What I do know is that water comes from different places at different times of the year. It may be from wells in the spring, reservoirs in the fall, or even rivers at times. Different sources require different treatment to acheive desired goals. Mostly, no live critters in the drinking water.

Besides chlorines there are chemicals to protect the piping system, typically a form of molybdate (yes I spelled that correctly) but more recently that has become a cost issue and I do not know what if any different avenues are being taken. I'd be willing to bet there are other treatments in use that I am not aware of.

I guess the point is that even though you have gotten away with not using a dechlorinator in the past, you may have just been lucky. When your on city water you really don't know what chemicals (florine anyone?) have been added at any given moment. Most all of these anti-bug chemicals are sensitive to sunlight and air. So in the interium open the drapes and run that bubbler, it can't hurt. Maybe this is a case where a water change is not the thing to do.