New 72 gallon!

[NickFish]

I just today got a new 72 gallon tank. It's gonna be a saltwater reef but there are a few things I'm not sure of.
Should I just add a bunch of live rock and let that get established and cycled before putting any corals or fish in? How would I go about getting this tank ready for fish and how long would it take? What type of filtration is needed if any?
I'm thinking about starting off with some clowns, damsels, gobies, wrasses, blennies, dartfish or any combination of those fish. Maybe some shrimp too.
Any advice on the fish combinations would be appriciated.
-Nick

[Drumachine09]

Before you start planning, you need to do research, and a TON of it. Reefs aren't something that you can fly by the seat of your pants with. I recommend getting a few books, and researching all aspects online for a few weeks.

[squirt_12]

i agree...i would say that you should do some research and just start off with a FOWLR and then once you have a handle on that (6-12 months) you could start adding some coral.

[cocoa_pleco]

i would personally get a canister filter and 300lbs LR, but you can always go 1lb/g of LR. The LR should cycle the tank

[NickFish]

I will go very slow on this and do lots of research.
Would a fluval 404 canister be ok? This and the live rock. What kind of sand should I put in? Does it matter or can I just get regular aquarium sand?
One more thing, I currently have 10 wpg in there, do I need another light?
Thanks for all the help!

[Rue]

For 72 gallons I would consider a full sump...it'll be better and easier...you'll need very good lights...again, in this case I'd go with MH...

You need aragonite for the substate...nothing else will really do (unless you want to get really complicated...and argueably not as good in the long run)...

The tank itself is the least of it...but it's a great start!

[cocoa_pleco]

good point, a 33g or 55g sump would be good.

ive found MH to be too strong in shallow tanks, like my 55g. is your tank 48" long? if so these are good, i have one on my tank, $40 shipping to get it into canada so $140 total

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[NickFish]

The tank is 48x18x23. I'll get a 55 gallon sump for it. Would I still need the fluval with the live rock?

I can get aragonite easy and will go pick some of that up tonight as well as the sump.

I really don't like buying stuf on ebay as I've had bad experiences with them before. I'll look around of a similiar light I'm sure I can find one.

Also how should I go about adding the live rock? Can I put it in right away or should the filter be up and running for a few days? And what are some good books on reef tanks, I feel I should be reading up on this and not just researching online.

Thanks for all the help!
-Nick

[cocoa_pleco]

if you get a sump you wont need the fluval.

you should ideally add most or all of the live rock at once.

the best book ive read is reefs for dummies

[NickFish]

the best book ive read is reefs for dummies
LOL That's funny! I was expecting more like 'Archibalds Complete Enclycopedia to Reef Aquaria' or something like that.

Ok SO I'll get the sump and aragonite today. I'll get the live rock next week sometime.
I'll look for a good light and I already have a protein skimmer and a heater......
Do I need anything else?

When I get all the live rock set up I will just wait for the cycle and do all the research.

Right now it's filling up with RO water. Very slowly I should add as the RO filter in my tap can only do 15 litres an hour.
Should be full sometime tomorrow but I'm planning for the rock and sand to add a couple gallons. Hopefully will be partially full tonight.

[cocoa_pleco]

dont forget sea salt and a hydrometer

[NickFish]

Oh ya!
I already have the salt and the hydrometer I will also get.

As soon as I get all the plumbing done and everything set up I'll put in the LR.
Might have to take out a loan for all the LR lol..........no seriously.....

Can't wait till it's done but I must be patient.........6-12 months till I can start adding some fish.

[cocoa_pleco]

good idea on the LR loan.

however, make sure the interest rate isnt too high and you can do the monthly payments

[Rue]

I'd splurge a bit more (drop in the bucket compared to the $1000s you'll be spending!) on a refractometre!

I am SO happy I have one...

This first time is the only time you can mix the salt directly in the tank...from here on in you'll need to pre-mix in dedicated buckets.

[spudbuds]

Don't forget powerheads or something else for water movement. Also, you'll need a container for mixing your water (w/ a cheap powerhead and heater in it).

I've had my 90G just sitting for a while so I can get done with enough research to set it up. I know as soon as I get LR, sand, and water in it, I'm going to want something. So, before I even put water in the tank, I'm making a plan for the types of corals and fish I want.

Research, research, research!

[Dave66]

Don't forget powerheads or something else for water movement. Also, you'll need a container for mixing your water (w/ a cheap powerhead and heater in it).

I've had my 90G just sitting for a while so I can get done with enough research to set it up. I know as soon as I get LR, sand, and water in it, I'm going to want something. So, before I even put water in the tank, I'm making a plan for the types of corals and fish I want.

Research, research, research!

LoL welcome to the club, Bill. You've entered the deep and sometimes confusing land of reef tank research. Even though I've been keeping reefs since '87, I learn new stuff through my aquarium library nearly every day. Everything I know about keeping reef tanks came from reading books, asking hundreds of questions of dozens and dozens of people with experience, and trying out what I learned from them. Reef keeping in a way is more of an art than science, but without the input from books and experienced keepers, the life I've kept over the years wouldn't have thrived the way they have. Since that life is in my care, it has always been my responsibility to study and learn how to keep them as perfectly as possible. Books are by far the most valuable commodity in planning a reef tank, or any tank, for that matter.

Dave

[shockshockshad]

Geez nick, how can you do that? We tell you "get a sump and agronite" and you do it right away! I would have to get it in a month, because my parents woukd say "no, its too expensive". your lucky!!!!!!

[NickFish]

Geez nick, how can you do that? We tell you "get a sump and agronite" and you do it right away! I would have to get it in a month, because my parents woukd say "no, its too expensive". your lucky!!!!!!
Well I can drive nows so my parents don't need to come with me,
I spend only my own money and as long as I am earning that money and spending only my earned money I am allowed to do whatever I want for it.
A lot of my house is empty and my parents really enjoy the look of my aquariums so I am really allowed to put them anywhere except the kitchen.
Oh and I have a big house so space really isn't that much of a problem.
I have really nice parents!:19:

OK here's the SW update.
I got all the testing kits and all the equipment. I was gonna post this yesterday but was way too tired. Up till 2am setting all this stuff up. Here's what I got right now and what I plan to do in the future-

Right now I have most of the water in and it is mixing ATM. I cleaned the substrate and it is all sitting in a bucket right now because I am not really sure when to put it in. I can't find anywhere where it says how long to get the original water sitting there before it is mixed.
The aquarium is about half full right now and I have everything set up but not running ATM. Do I need a powerhead? I have a spare aquaclear 70 I can set up in a minute.
What should I set up and get running right now?
I also have a spare 10 gallon I can use for mixing water for water changes. I can also get a submersible pump for under $15 that would fit in there.

I plan to get the live rock today if everything above is alright. I have some food I can use for feeding the things that come off live rock whenever they come out.
After a few months and if everything is going good I plan to add the clean up crew. Not sure yet but probably snails and shrimp. Then a few months later when all is good and I feel ok with the tank I'll start adding some corals and fish. Maybe one fish every 6 weeks and 1 more coral every month. I plan to start off with clownfish. I will probably also get an anemone for them but not sure yet.

I'm pretty sure there is a lot of stuff I forgot to mentioned here but hopefully I got most of it. So tired right now and I want to get the live rock and everything working right soon. Sorry it is a very long post.......
Thanks again for all the help!
-Nick

[NickFish]

I also think I should start deciding on stock before I add corals and stuff.

I'm planning on adding cleaner shrimp and snails first and then going with a pair of clowns. What else would I bea ble to add? I'm thinking dartfish or gobies but still have more research to do.
Any suggestions would be good and then I can go research those fish more and see what I would like.

EDIT: I will probably make it FOWLR for a while, when I get the hang of that I'll add some corals. Is that a good idea and are there any fish that need corals? Doing some research I often have conflicting info on that.

Thanks
-Nick

[cocoa_pleco]

not too many fish need corals but some clownfish like anemones

[NickFish]

Ok then I won't get any corals right away. Maybe after a year of having the tank fully stocked I will put some corals in there, learn the ropes first.

[NickFish]

I'm still deciding on stock.
I think after 6-8 months I'll add some cleaner shrimp and then maybe.....
- a pair of clowns (definelty)
- basslets (need to research them more)
- damsels (heard they can get aggresive)
- gobies (need to research more)
- dartfish (not many color variations around here)
- some kind of tang like a yellow, not sure exactly yet (this would be the last fish I would get for the tank)

Would these be good? I'm not limited only to this list suggestions are appriciated. Would all these fit in a 72 gallon? In what numbers? I havent been able to find much info on stocking.
So much research.... info overload! My brain is exploding! Between exams, learning everything about the new job, and this tank I think my brain is gonna catch fire, literally......................................I'm scared
LOL!

[Dave66]

I'm still deciding on stock.
I think after 6-8 months I'll add some cleaner shrimp and then maybe.....
- a pair of clowns (definelty)
- basslets (need to research them more)
- damsels (heard they can get aggresive)
- gobies (need to research more)
- dartfish (not many color variations around here)
- some kind of tang like a yellow, not sure exactly yet (this would be the last fish I would get for the tank)

Would these be good? I'm not limited only to this list suggestions are appriciated. Would all these fit in a 72 gallon? In what numbers? I havent been able to find much info on stocking.

The damsels should be last, as they can be quite aggressive. Get yellow-tail blue damsels (Chrysiptera hemicyanea) as they are the least aggressive of the damsels, but can still take care of themselves. They are brilliantly colored, and nearly bulletproof hardy. Gobies are good; little group of five or seven neon gobies (Gobiosoma oceanops) would be good, as they'll clean tankmates and even pick saltwater ich off fish, like that yellow tang is prone to get if not acclimated correctly. Since neon gobies are captive bred, they are easy to keep. Royal Gramma would be a good bet for your first basslet. Hardy and cheap. If they were rare, they'd be very expensive, with their looks.
Dartfish are easily bullied, which the damsels will probably do. Remember, clown fish are part of the damselfish family, so dartfish can be a target.
Yellow Tang is your best bet for a first tang. They reach eight inches, so when you get a larger tank, that's where he'll go. He needs to be fed EXCLUSIVELY on herbivore foods, because meaty foods, though they avidly eat them, usually cause renal failure and death. You can use NLS with him, but you need to have macro-algae available to him 24/7. Asian groceries sell Nori, a seaweed used to wrap sushi, and there are prepared macro-algae sheets available. Tangs need to be able to graze on algae nearly constantly.
So, stocking order. Gobies first, basslet, clowns, tang, damsels. If you buy groups, like five gobies or six damsels, add them all at once.

Dave

Dave

[NickFish]

That sounds good. If you think the dartfish are gonna be bullied to much I can get something else instead.

As for the yellow tang They reach eight inches, so when you get a larger tank, that's where he'll go. I likely won't be getting another SW tank very soon. If He won't fit in the 72 Gal then I won't get him. So will he fit and be comfortable his whole life?

I can get whatever food the fish need. I already ordered some marine NLS it should come in soon. How many damsels should I get and are you SURE I should be adding all the schooling fish at once? I was thinking more like 1 fish every month. I wanna go slow on this.

I really like the Royal Gramma. Very nice fish. The neon gobies are cool too and I really like the damsels. If this works out it should look good!
Thanks for the help!

[Dave66]

That sounds good. If you think the dartfish are gonna be bullied to much I can get something else instead.

As for the yellow tang I likely won't be getting another SW tank very soon. If He won't fit in the 72 Gal then I won't get him. So will he fit and be comfortable his whole life?

He'll be OK in your 72 long term, and they usually top out at six inches and slow down from there. Long as you don't add anything else than what you listed, he'll be fine.

I can get whatever food the fish need. I already ordered some marine NLS it should come in soon. How many damsels should I get and are you SURE I should be adding all the schooling fish at once? I was thinking more like 1 fish every month. I wanna go slow on this.

Dead sure. Adding two damsels then later adding three more would be bloody carnage. If you're going to buy damsels, add them last and all at once it you want peace. They'll be very small, like less than two inches, when you get them, so no water quality troubles. Just space out additions over time, like you're planning to do

I really like the Royal Gramma. Very nice fish. The neon gobies are cool too and I really like the damsels. If this works out it should look good!
Thanks for the help!

No problem, Nick. Something you could add instead of the dartfish would be a filiment flasher wrasse ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]). Add one after the basslet.

Dave

[Rue]

Ok then I won't get any corals right away. Maybe after a year of having the tank fully stocked I will put some corals in there, learn the ropes first.

I don't think you have to wait quite that long. Once the tank is cycled you can get corals. Shouldn't take more than 4-6 weeks...

[NickFish]

I've heard cycling SW takes months. And either way I want to take it slowly. Today I am setting everything up and getting the live rock.

Dave,
Ok I will add all the schoolers at once.
I really like wrasse you mentioned but I also really love the basslet. If I took out some of the gobies (if possible) like maybe only 3 gobies could I then add the wrasse and the basslet together? I really like them both.

For the tang would something like this be ok -->Tang Food? ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.])

If I were to get a few corals in a year or so what would some easy ones be?
I've read that polyps and soft corals are good and I like Rhodactis sp, zoas, Protopalythoa sp, and Stylophora sp looks cool too even though its a SPS.
What would some relatively easy starter corals be that are also brightly colored?
Thanks again

[Rue]

For a SW tank to fully mature it may take 6-12m...that's true...

But your tank should be cycled in 4-6 weeks. After that you can add most corals, esp. the hardier ones such as:

zoanthids
Candy Canes
Xenia (be careful...it has a tendency to want to take over the tank)
mushrooms
ricordeas
yumas
leathers
frogspawn
Star polyps

Probably should wait to introduce the SPS corals and anemones, LTPs can be tricky too...but the STP seem to be hardier

[NickFish]

oh ok I see. I think I'll put in some zoas and frogspawn at first. Maybe a few other later but I really don't want to put in more than 3 or 4 corals until later. When it's cycled I'll first wait a few weeks then add the corals. Then I'll add the cleaner shrimp. The slowly the fishes.

I finished setting up my tank. Everything is running and the live rock is in. I got 85 pounds of it. Only cost $600. Might end up getting more later though.
It's cycling right now.
All the equipment is working good and I finally figured out the 33 gallon sump and got all the piping done pretty fast after memorizing the instructions and checking out every SW equipment site there is. The protein skimmer is pretty loud but I guess I'll get use to it. When should I start feeding the stuff that's supposed to grow out of the LR?

[Rue]

Sounds like it's coming along!

For some reason I haven't quite figured out, protein skimmers often need a 'breaking in ' period...you should also be adjusting the air to it in order to get a nice wet skimmate (not too dry or too watery)...with all that LR and the initial die-off, you should be getting enought skimmate so that you can play with the controls so to speak...

[NickFish]

I've tried out a few different things and it's a little quieter now and looks like it's not to dry or too watery like you mentioned. I'm done for a little now. All that's left for now is to pick up some pharmiseuticals and foods.
Thanks!

[NickFish]

Oh ya one more thing I forgot to mention!
I set up an old 10 gallon tank that I plan to use for the reef quarentine. I won't actually put any fish into it until I have more than 5 fish in the main tank. I'd hate for all those fish to die because of a disease and since SW fish are MUCH more expensive than FW I really don't want to take the chance. Also because I really like my fish.

I filled the 10 gallon with a thin layer of aragonite and put in 3 pounds of LR. Not much but it's better than nothing I think. I think I will either put some SW guppies in there or just some regular doses of ammonia. And maybe a single cleaner shrimp, not sure exactly yet and any advice on this would be great.

I also hooked up a heater and a small sponge HOB. It looks good and I feel so much better knowing I won't accidently introduce disease into the tank.
Lemme know what you think! Good or bad? Am I doing everything right with the quarentine?

[Dave66]

Oh ya one more thing I forgot to mention!
I set up an old 10 gallon tank that I plan to use for the reef quarentine. I won't actually put any fish into it until I have more than 5 fish in the main tank. I'd hate for all those fish to die because of a disease and since SW fish are MUCH more expensive than FW I really don't want to take the chance. Also because I really like my fish.

I filled the 10 gallon with a thin layer of aragonite and put in 3 pounds of LR. Not much but it's better than nothing I think. I think I will either put some SW guppies in there or just some regular doses of ammonia. And maybe a single cleaner shrimp, not sure exactly yet and any advice on this would be great.

I also hooked up a heater and a small sponge HOB. It looks good and I feel so much better knowing I won't accidently introduce disease into the tank.
Lemme know what you think! Good or bad? Am I doing everything right with the quarentine?

Put a skimmer on it, one of those fission nano things. The live rock and the live sand (if you use it) will keep the tank 'cycled'. You don't add ammonia to marine tanks, less you want to kill the live rock/sand. Other than a skimmer and live sand, you've got it. Quarantine for a month.
You might want to put together a larger quarantine, if you keep schooling fish, like Chromis, cardnalfish, damsels. . . .same setup, just a larger skimmer.

Dave

[NickFish]

I don't think I will be able to get another large sized tank anytime soon so the 10 gal will have to do for now. I'll go out right now really quick (sincve the lfs doesn't close till 10:00 and pick up another 5 pounds of live rock and some live sand if I can find it. I'll look around for the smallest skimmer I can find. Ok I think this is my stocking list for now.
Let me know if this is good. In order ..........

-5 cleaner shrimp~added after about 2 months
-6 neon gobies~added 1-2 months after the shrimp
-1 Royal Gramma~5-7 weeks after the gobies
-A pair of Ocellaris clowns~added 5-7 weeks after the gramma
-1 yellow tang~5-8 weeks after the clowns
-6 yellow-tail blue damsels~6-8 weeks after the tang
and a few corals added throughout

Well I'm off to the lfs. Thanks for the help!

[Dave66]

I don't think I will be able to get another large sized tank anytime soon so the 10 gal will have to do for now. I'll go out right now really quick (sincve the lfs doesn't close till 10:00 and pick up another 5 pounds of live rock and some live sand if I can find it. I'll look around for the smallest skimmer I can find. Ok I think this is my stocking list for now.
Let me know if this is good. In order ..........

-5 cleaner shrimp~added after about 2 months
-6 neon gobies~added 1-2 months after the shrimp
-1 Royal Gramma~5-7 weeks after the gobies
-A pair of Ocellaris clowns~added 5-7 weeks after the gramma
-1 yellow tang~5-8 weeks after the clowns
-6 yellow-tail blue damsels~6-8 weeks after the tang
and a few corals added throughout

Well I'm off to the lfs. Thanks for the help!

Nick,
Here's ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) the little skimmer I mentioned. You might want to forget either the cleaner shrimp or the neon gobies, as they will compete with each other for cleaning duties and food, and the fish will win every time. Other than that, your additions, time frames and order are perfect.

Dave

[NickFish]

Ok that's good. The one I got is almost exactly like that one.

So if I got rid of the gobies could I add that one filament flasher wrasse you mention before? And maybe add 1 more damsel. So it would be-
-5 cleaner shrimp~added after about 2 months
-1 Royal Gramma~added 1-2 months after the shrimp
-1 filament flasher wrasse~5-7 weeks after the gramma
-A pair of Ocellaris clowns~added 5-7 weeks after the wrasse
-1 yellow tang~5-8 weeks after the clowns
-7 yellow-tail blue damsels~6-8 weeks after the tang
and a few corals added throughout

Or I could go back to 6 damsels and then add another kind of fish?

[cocoa_pleco]

it looks good, but just make sure the wrasse and gramma dont kill the shrimp. i tried a $80 shrimp with my dottyback (relative to grammas) and he killed it literally in 2 seconds, even with the tank lights off. the wrasse may ignore it though, i was told my wrasse yould kill my inverts yet the shrimp will just swim by him

[squirt_12]

wow....it looks liek you know what you are doing NickFish. But one thing i have to say is:
you will need 1-2 powerheads. 2 work better as you can place one on either side of the tank.
lighting.....you will need good lighting for the coral that you are going to be putting into the tank. (i say this becuase i havn't read much talk about the lighting in here)


could we see a pic of what the tank looks like?? sounds really nice.

[cocoa_pleco]

for lighting i would recommend T-5 or HO fluorescent, but if you dont want to spend alot on lighting you can get CF

[NickFish]

Ok I guess I'll repost this.

My lfs has a sale on T-5s right now so I'll get one of those. Tank is going good right now. I still haven't seen any sort of life come out of the LR but it shouldn't be long now!
Oh and I added another 10 pounds of a different type of LR to the main tank (there was a space that needed filling in) and another 5 pounds to the quarentine.

[squirt_12]

sorry to semi intrude.....but is there different kinds of T-5s??? i am guessing that you will need to know which kind to get to accompany the coral that you would want to get.

pictures????

[cocoa_pleco]

yep, 48" T-5 are 54w each (mine has 6 bulbs) and 24" T-5 are 24w each

[squirt_12]

yep, 48" T-5 are 54w each (mine has 6 bulbs) and 24" T-5 are 24w each
ok....so he would have to get a high wattage one because i believe i remeber reading something about him wanting to get an anemone for the tank.

[cocoa_pleco]

for a high light anemone in a 75g you would need about 600w of lighting, and that would mean a 10x54w t-5.

nick, if you want a high light anemone i would use metal halides, something like this

[Only Registered Users Can See Links.]

[zackish]

Cocoa what is this 650 gal you are planning I see in your sig. You're nutz

[cocoa_pleco]

lol, the pacu wont stay small forever

[NickFish]

I've decided against putting in anemones. Too hard to take care of. I will be putting in some corals though. Not too many a few zoas and thinking of frogspawn. I have to see what the lfs has in stock before I decide on that though.

lol, the pacu wont stay small forever
That's HUGE!
Good luck with it and good idea. Pacus scare me. Can't wait to see it when its up.

[Dave66]

I've decided against putting in anemones. Too hard to take care of. I will be putting in some corals though. Not too many a few zoas and thinking of frogspawn. I have to see what the lfs has in stock before I decide on that though.

Nick,
Here's some beginner corals ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) for you. Some are LPS, most are softies. All are easy to keep. And here's a selection of Zoos ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) for you. Clove polyps (Clavlaria species) are especially nice. Easy to keep.
Also easy are the Euphyllias, the frogspawn, hammers, torches ([Only Registered Users Can See Links.]) and anchor corals. You would need to keep NSW levels steady 24/7/365 with them; any coral actually. Two Little Fishies 2 part C-Balance is what I recommend, as calcium reactor setups are quite expensive.

Dave

[NickFish]

Thanks Dave, I'll look into all those corals. That bubble coral looks really cool.

I'll look around for the C-Balance too.

[darxide318]

I must say, from the perspective of someone who is setting up their first sw tank, thank you all so much. There has been a wealth of information in this thread, and many like it.

[NickFish]

Glad you learned as much as I did!