Nano reef opinions

[Tigerbarb]

How hard is it overall to keep a small Nano Reef?
Overall, besides setting up, buying live rock, which I have heard is not cheap, and changing the water constantly, which requires buying sea salt mix, if there is not a huge system going like some aquariums, what is the big expensive of a nano reef?

[coachfraley]

I think expense is talked about with SW because EVERYTHING is more expensive in a SW system. Lighting, live-rock & sand (a lot more than gravel), powerheads, more testing equipment, salt mix, and LIVESTOCK.

Small systems have the cost advantage of not needing a skimmer and a sump/fuge.

Once a small system is established, the intensity of care does not differ too much from FW (assuming you do weekly work on your FW system).

[Fenix]

Yeah I just started one and the cost is something I did not expect at all.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

the lights are one of the big expenses, the one im getting will cost about 120$but thats for higher light, you could probably do cheaper if went with low and medium light corals. Thats another expensice part, corals can range on average (at least for my lfs) from 35-100$

I have a 10g nano that i just started. Without the lights i've spent about 180$ for the live rock, argonite, nano powerhead, salt mix, test kits, heater, and my clean up crew ( hermit crabs, turbo snails, coral banded shrimp). So when i get the lights i will have spent about 300$ for everything but corals and fish

[Dave66]

Yeah I just started one and the cost is something I did not expect at all.

Fenix is quite right. The main stopping point for a new marine hobbist is the cost. You could easily found a 10 gallon freshwater tank for under 150 dollars if you shop. A like marine tank with live rock and all the equipment will easily be 10 times that.
If you someday move up to a larger tank, the startup costs increase exponentially. A properly-setup 55 gallon can cost you between 2 and 4 thousand dollars to start.

Dave

[A340]

A properly-setup 55 gallon can cost you between 2 and 4 thousand dollars to start.

Dave
Could you give us a run down on these costs? For example, you need lights, filter, skimmer, test kit, salt, live rock, heater, powerheads. What am I missing other then possibly a chiller and fuge?

[coachfraley]

I think the chiller and fuge are pretty much mandatory on a tank that large.

The large tanks I have seen also had wavemakers, calcium reactors, and auto top-off devices.

I really don't think that Dave was exagerating, if you are going to do it right, a 55 would cost you that much.

I have heard that the rule of thumb for SW setup costs is $50/gallon.

[Dave66]

Could you give us a run down on these costs? For example, you need lights, filter, skimmer, test kit, salt, live rock, heater, powerheads. What am I missing other then possibly a chiller and fuge?

Pat,
Something the size of a 55 needs a sump. You could use an old aquarium for one (like me), but your also getting into pumps and plumbing, and that costs, though not as much if you know what you're doing. So that's 200 to 300 dollars there.
A good skimmer is at the very least 100 bucks; a top of the line is around 500 dollars.
If you go with a pound of live rock at five bucks a pound . . . double or triple that if you used aquacultured live rock, like I do (I'm very much a captive bred and aquacultured person). Live sand costs a bundle. So your sand and rock can cost you over 700 easy.
Your lights can be just PCs or VHOs, depending on what you want to keep, invertwise. Halides cost money, but you need them if you're going with SPS and Clams, not to mention the more light hungry LSP and softies. You don't need a chiller if you buy fixtures with fans and space them high enough over the water. A halide fixture should be at least a foot above the water. Just a good PC or VHO for a 55 is between 3 and 7 hundred, add halides and you're looking at 7 hundred to 12 hundred. Room temps also count on if you need a chiller or not.
Fuges you can buy or make. A good HOB is around a hundred bucks or a little less.
I use titanium heaters (they don't break) in the tanks in my basement because its just below 70 degrees down there all year. I keep them in my other reefs, as my house is about 72, and I keep all my tanks FW and Marine, at 77 degrees.
Titanium heaters are more accurate and reliable than the glass jobs. Around 75 or 100 bucks per for a decent marine heater.
So, easily thousands of dollars to set up a 55 FOWLR or Reef tank.
When you get up to the hundreds of gallons, the start-up costs can be truely staggering. I don't like to think about it lol.

Dave

[~Erik3.8.07~]

and that right there is exactly why i went nano lol

[coachfraley]

and that right there is exactly why i went nano lol

No kidding!

I recently got some frags from a guy with a 120g. The tank was unbelievable, but you could tell that ALL of his $ was going into the tank. Dave mentioned it in his post, but the guy even had to add a special exhaust fan to the room because the lights and cooler were producing too much heat.

I could never divert that much $ into my hobby, so I am with you Erik!

[Fenix]

I kinda spent a lot more than I wanted to since I didn't have any supplies to start with.

I got the following items

10 Gallon Tank
Skimmer
Powerhead
Heater
Live Rocks
Aragonite
Testing Kits
Glass Canopy
Decent Light
Hydrometer
Thermometer
Water Conditioner
Power Strip
Electrical Timers
Marine Salt
Background

All that and no fish.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

you didnt really need to get the skimmer, that probably put a nice dent in your wallet

[Fenix]

Actually I m glad I got it. Cause its also a filter too so my water isn't cloudy and it since my rock formation is tall it helps circulate my water where my powerhead cant.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

oh i see, for mine i just put on an ac30 and my tank stays crystal. My circulation is good but im thinking about getting another powerhead and have the two opposite of each other so theres even circualtion throughout

[Tigerbarb]

It sounds so far that those cute little clowns and tangs you see in fish shops are really little devils coming to take all you money by looking cute... lol.

[Tigerbarb]

I found a small Eclipse nano-cube for only 49.95 at Petco. A great deal compared to what I have seen on the internet. To start, I will buy a bucket of pre-mixed SW, coral sand, and the nano cube. Once I get My tank set-up I will purchase LR. When my tank is done cycling I will probably buy a test kit, hydrometer, and sea salt.
When I have time I will go to Petco with a notepad and find the overall cost of my starting setup.

[unleashed]

I found a small Eclipse nano-cube for only 49.95 at Petco. A great deal compared to what I have seen on the internet. To start, I will buy a bucket of pre-mixed SW, coral sand, and the nano cube. Once I get My tank set-up I will purchase LR. When my tank is done cycling I will probably buy a test kit, hydrometer, and sea salt.

good plan. one problem though.....


When my tank is done cycling I will probably buy a test kit

How will you know when the tank has cycled when you don't have a test kit :c2:

[Tigerbarb]

good plan. one problem though.....



How will you know when the tank has cycled when you don't have a test kit :c2:
I have no idea lol. I guess I will get a test kit before cycling.

Would this keeping routine work?:
1x per week 1/3 water change
1x per week ph test
Watch aquarium daily

Would bio-wheel filtration work? It is included in the tank I am going to get.

[Fenix]

i do a ~10% water change every week.
throughout the week i top off the water.
i have not done a ph test yet, though i think i should.
you will need a calcium test and a magnesium one too. in addtion chemicals to boost those trace elements. strontium and iodine are needed too but to a lesser degree. you can buy something called C-Balance that dave66 recommened to me that will boost all your trace elemts accordingly. i couldnt find it at my lfs so i had to go with other stuff. for the time being i monitor calcium and magnesium quite often (bi-weekly) and add the elements daily. later as your tank matures u don't need to monitor the elements all that much (every 2 weeks - monthly) but you will still need to add the trace elements a couple times a week (thats what my bottle says).

for your filtration system i have no clue.

[Fenix]

why cant i delete my posts?

[cocoa_pleco]

yep, biowheel filtration will work on a SW tank

[Tigerbarb]

Won't filters filter out the saltwater's content?

[cocoa_pleco]

what do you mean by content?

[Tigerbarb]

what do you mean by content?
I mean the salt an nutrients vital to marine fish that is only in salt water.

[cocoa_pleco]

nope, it in no way harms it, some people are bent on using carbon in reefs but personally i dont

[Tigerbarb]

Would this aquarium system work?
http://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-Marineland-System-Three/dp/B0002AQ020

[cocoa_pleco]

sounds good but for corals you would need better lighting, as a FOWLR it would be great

EDIT- this one is AWESOME and half price

http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-Eclipse-System-Aquarium-Kit/dp/B0002568MW/ref=pd_sbs_k_title_2

[Tigerbarb]

I found an Eclipse system for only 49.99 at a Petco so I should be good getting that.

[cocoa_pleco]

sounds good, is it the eclipse 3?

[Tigerbarb]

sounds good, is it the eclipse 3?
Forgot to check. Though I was there earlier today.

[cocoa_pleco]

the petsmart here has the eclipse 6 on sale for $50 so i think thats probably it

[Tigerbarb]

I went back and measured te size. Do you think I would be able to keep coral in an Eclipse 6 if I replaced the lighting?
Should I buy pre-mixed saltwater or salt mix and a hydrometer? It is cheaper for pre-mixed saltwater. I am definitly going to buy pre-mixed saltwater to set up a tank, but should I keep using it for water changes?

[Tigerbarb]

I have officially decided not to get any fish in my tank. I am going to get first get an Eclipse system, along with some live rock. The only life I want to add to the aquarium besides the live rock organisms are a few easy to keep corals, such as mushrooms. If my nano reef works out, I may consider more corals or fish.

[cocoa_pleco]

why not just add one firefish or clownfish? they arent hard to keep and without fish the tank might be a bit boring

[Tigerbarb]

Yeah...
I was thinking of using a standard 10g with florescent lighting with 10 lbs of fiji live rock, and adding some mushrom corals and yellow zoa looking things that come on rocks. I am planning to get a clownfish and some other fish... I will look around fish stores...
Would florescent lighting support most corals?

[cocoa_pleco]

nope, you should get 10w/g of PC, HO, T-5, or MH, fluorescents cant put out that much

[Tigerbarb]

Do feather dusters need special lighting?
Is Power compact lighting cheap?

[cocoa_pleco]

PC is the cheapest available

[sen5241b]

Yeah I just started one and the cost is something I did not expect at all.

I pretty much ended up spending double what I had planned.

[dgoulston]

what Watt Lighting would you need for a
10G?
24G?

Darren.

[AABatteries]

Sorry to come in this thread and just ask a Q but, do you have to worry about LR creatures with just FOWLR?

[cocoa_pleco]

like hitchhikers on the live rock? yes

[zackish]

Fenix is quite right. The main stopping point for a new marine hobbist is the cost. You could easily found a 10 gallon freshwater tank for under 150 dollars if you shop. A like marine tank with live rock and all the equipment will easily be 10 times that.
If you someday move up to a larger tank, the startup costs increase exponentially. A properly-setup 55 gallon can cost you between 2 and 4 thousand dollars to start.

Dave

I have a funny story to. My friend was over one day and he thought my nano tank was amazing. So he decided he wanted one. He did about a weeks worth of research and went out and found a 75 gal used tank with a bunch of stuff for $500. However there were no lights, no good powerheads, etc. etc. He has already spent another $500 on lights. Started putting fish in there yada yada. Either way he has a lot more stuff to buy to like a protein skimmer and he never wants to listen to me.
No matter what kind of ideas you get the bigger the tank is the more it is going to cost you.
I would say to setup my 10 gallon nano initially from scratch it cost between $400 and $500. With the rock, sand, salt, equip, lights, etc.
Then I probably put another couple hundred into fish and corals.

[coachfraley]

Zackish,

Along the same line as your story...My brother saw a 120g tank on craigslist that a guy was practically giving away. He called me and said that he was going to get it for me, and I had to beg him not to. In the end, I told him, ok, you can get it if you will give the the other $5000 I will need to finish the setup!