Can someone explain this PLEASE ?????????????

[Mikey0727]

Ok - so I joined the forum a few days ago, because my big pleco was sick -

The pleco succumbed to the fungas infection and died.
However, wanting to save the rest of my tank, I did the following at the advice of the forum -

Change 40 % water -
Remove carbon -
Complete anti biotic -

NOW - someone PLEASE explain at least what went on -

6PM Last Night:
Remove Carbon -
Change Water -
Add Antibiotic

6 AM This morning:
Check Tank -
Water IS CLEAR
Fish are Fine
I DO NOTHING TO THE TANK - 12 hours have passed since I do ANYTHING

6 PM Today:
I get home - 2 fish dead, who were perfectly fine
My second Pleco is on his way out - he is acting odd, staying near bottom

WATER IS CLOUDY WHITE?????


Can someone explain How I can make changes to a tank, have it be perfectly fine for 12 hours, and then 12 hours later, turn cloudy white and go to H*****???

I dont know a lot about fish - I fear my whole tank is on its way out now -
How can water I did nothing to in 12 hours magically turn cloudy (filter is funning fine, minus carbon)

Please offer either advice, or at least an explanation :(

[A340]

What kind of fungus infection did your pleco have? What did you treat it with? What are your water paramemters such as ammonia, nitrate, nitrite levels? How big is your tank and how is your filteration?

Just a guess, not basing it on any accuracy, but if you did medicate the tank and the fish were perfectly healthy, they could have subcummed to the unneccesary medication. Like I said, just a possible theory.

However, we do need more info for a better guess on what happened.

[Mikey0727]

I have no idea what kind of fungas the fish had - his head turned white, and he died, so I was told it was a fungus - I wish I knew more, but alas, I do not -

I finished the cycle of anti-biotic, because I was told to by people on here who sounded like they knew what they were talking about

Not to Mention, 12 hours after I added the medicine, water was perfectly clear, and on an additional 12 hours, turned cloudy. Doent make much sense

Filter - Proquatics Canister filter 1600

PH - 7
Nitrate around 20
Nitrite - 0 (or very low, as i doubt its 0)

[NickFish]

How big is your tank?
What are your ammonia levels.
It is possible that you did everything right, the fish could be very far into an infection without you knowing it. Prevention is better than treatment.
As for the cloudy water a few water changes should get rid of it.
Maybe some pictures would help.

[Lady Hobbs]

Sounds to me as the fungal meds set the cycle back in the tank. I've had it do that before, as well. You appear to be in a mini-cycle now.

But my question would be.....Did you give only the recommended dose of antibiotic?

[Lady Hobbs]

Mikey, I re-read your post and this is what jumped out at me. You wrote:
Nitrite - 0 (or very low, as i doubt its 0)

This tells me your tank was not cycled totally or you would definately have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites. It is very important to have a liquid testing kit especially when cycling a tank. Fish can become very ill due to the toxins and may take days to perish. They may look fine but will perish due to the toxins they have been breathing.

Water that is toxic will cause stress which results in stress to the fish which in turn leads to ick, fungus and other problems. I have a feeling this is what lead to the fungus and the demise of your pleco.

When starting up a new tank it is very important that water be tested daily for these toxins and water changes done regularly to reduce the toxic levels.
I still feel that your tank had not cycled and adding the fungal meds set it back for you.

If you see no more fish with fungus, I would remove that med now by doing another large water change and adding your charcoal to the tank to remove the rest. And start testing the water for ammonia and nitrite spikes. It will clear up probably in a few days but you have to keep an eye on those remaining fish.

[Mikey0727]

Amonia is 0 - I bought an amonia testing kit, where you mix the 2 liquids, and its perfectly 0 ppm

Tank is 50 gallon -

I was looking at my 2nd pleco, who looks like he is struggling, and when he rolls his eye, he looks like he has a white rim behind his eye, which could be signs of fungas

I gave exactly the recommended dose of Antibiotic -

Water just looks cloudy white -

I returned the carbon to the filter -

I would really like an explanation, as to how a tank can go 12 hours and look pristine, an then doing nothing to it, 12 hours later it is a disaster. I do not know a lot about fish, but this is really odd to me -

I went to the fish store, and bought - Fungas Clear andWater Clear Jungle tabs - so I have them on hand.

Did not add anything else to the tank - Just returned carbon to filter, and am watching cloudy water - Please Advise on next step.

[Lady Hobbs]

You mentioned you got the tank 6 months ago but has it been set up all this time with fish? If so, it should be cycled and the only thing that would cause it to loose it's cycle was using water without dechlorinator added. I assume you have always used this? OR.....you changed out the gravel in your tank to new. (I am currently going thru a mini-ammonia spike myself after adding sand to my tanks two days ago.) OR....adding that med recommended by the petstore destroyed your bacteria and now has to be grown again.

Food waste or a dead fish can always make your ammonia spike. That's why keeping the gravel vacummed every couple of weeks and regular water changes are always so necessary.

You had an over stocked tank with that pleco. But even over-stocked tanks will do ok with large water changes regularly. I also have to ask if you have additional water movement such as an air stone or bubbler. Also necessary in tanks over-stocked.

As annoying as that white water is, it will return clear in a short time.

But as long as no other fish show signs of fungus, I would do a large water change right now and let the tank return to normal.

I'm sorry you're having a problem right now and lost your pleco.

[Pr0eve]

Mikey0727, I feel your pain bro. I just had an out break of fugues in my tank as well. it seem like it is that time of the year. I just lost 6 fish due to this unseen fungus outbreak. once you get a tank setup it can be very touchy. do not make big changes all at once, and be careful on what you put into your tank. there is not much els I can say to make you feel better. but I do know how you are feeling right now.

your tank turns milky when the bacteria starts to grow, so it is very likely that your bacteria got killed some how. you need not only keep your fish healthy but you need to keep your bacteria healthy as well. your not only rising fish.

all my tanks now have a pretty shade of blue to them now.. fugues clear is my friend right now.

[Mikey0727]

Thanks everyone for your input, and thus my education -

Tank Always Had Fish In it, and there is a bubbler in it as well -

A few questions -

1 - What dechlorinator do you guys use.
2 - Do you add it to the tank just before adding new water?

I know that may seem simple, but given what happened, and starting to put the pieces together, perhaps I killed my bacteria when I added water to the tank, and my silly jungle tab water conditioner didnt dechlorinate the water well enough, or the anti-biotic water change combo did my bacteria in. Now I have white water because my bacteria is growing again.

3 - My other pleco -

He may actually be sick, While I see no real signs of fungas, (his snout is Slightly lighter colored than his main body, but that might be me being paranoid.) he is breathing rapidly, and when he sucks the wall, he isnt getting up high on the wall of the tank. Almost like hes having trouble swimming up. His fins are very close to his body as he rests on the floor of the tank

I can leave him be, or remove the carbon, and add the fungal Tabs? Any thoughts? Id really like to save this fish, after losing 3 fish in 24 hours, Im not sure I can take any more :(

Thanks Everyone!

[Pr0eve]

1. I use start right.
2. I add it after I add the water.
3. you can try some Fungus Clear, it cleans up a lot of different stuff.

that is how my fish were acting right before they died.

An antibiotic is a chemotherapeutic agent that inhibits or abolishes the growth of micro-organisms, such as bacteria, fungi, or protozoans. <--- soooooo. I think this is the killer of your micro bubby's.

[SkarloeysMom]

1 - What dechlorinator do you guys use.
2 - Do you add it to the tank just before adding new water?
3 - My other pleco -
He may actually be sick, While I see no real signs of fungas, (his snout is Slightly lighter colored than his main body, but that might be me being paranoid.) he is breathing rapidly, and when he sucks the wall, he isnt getting up high on the wall of the tank. Almost like hes having trouble swimming up. His fins are very close to his body as he rests on the floor of the tank


1. I use Amquel because our tap water has ammonia at .50 ppm out of the tap.
2. I add the Amquel to each gallon of water as I'm filling it in the sink. (I'm still using the stone age method of carting my water from sink to tank)
3. Fins close to the body are called Clamped fins and it is usually a sign of stress. Not sure what to tell you about medicating the tank again. If you did you'd probably want to use something that did not interfere with the cycle since that seems to be set back right now. Sorry you've lost some fish. Hang in there, things will get better.

[Lady Hobbs]

For me, I would add no more medications at this time unless you are sure you have a fungal problem. Why medicate when medications may not be needed.

Fungus is very easy to spot and will be white cottony patches and very noticeable. Good clean water will clean up many of your problems. Please keep in mind that fish pee constantly so refreshing that water for them will give you good healthy fish.

Keep in mind, as well, that not all medications are suitable for scaleless fish. Make sure you always read the label regarding the scaleless variety. There are some medications that are made for sensitive fish.

I think about all the dechlorinators are fine. I add mine as I am filling the tank.

Turn off your filters while filling, as well, so only dechlorinated is running thru your filter and make sure you unplug the heater so it doesn't burn out. (Some kinds have over-heating safe guards but some don't.)

[Mikey0727]

The plceo is behaving exactly like the other one did, and he is begining to show signs of white fluffy spots.

I removed the carbon, and used the jungle fungas tabs. I did it yesterday, but I dont think its helping. :(

How long should I run the filter without the carbon?

Anything else I can do to help the Pleco?

[Dave66]

Fungus attacks injuries on the fish. Either the net you are using or the decorations or substrate in your tank is abrading your fish to the point where fungus can get in and proliferate.
You need to treat the fish in a seperate container for the fungus. Melefix usually can eliminate fungus, but the root cause needs to be addressed. Common plecos are very, very healthy fish, and for them to get any disease, much less be hurt enough to get fungus, is almost unheard of.

Dave

[Lady Hobbs]

Dave is right on. Both my featherfins at one time had fungus which I treated with Jungle labs and it cleared up right away. However, I found out they had been fighting and their injuries are what had gotten infected.

Pleco's like a smooth stone with no sharp edges or sand. They may be trying to jam their heads into the gravel.

Leave the charcoal out as long as you are treating the tank. Return it only when you see no more signs of fungus.

[Mikey0727]

Thanks to everyone for all of your advice -

The pleco is still hanging in - but I can tell he is weak, he still cant get up to the top of the tank, he barely gets up high enough so his tail isnt hitting the ground.

I got a chance to inspect him very closely today, he parked himself right at the front of the tank, so I got a good look -

He definately has some whitish substance around his beak / mouth area, its been two days since I treated him with jungle fungas tabs, and he seems a little better as far as moving, but not much -

He has no abraisian that I can see - he doesnt look cut, or injured in any way -

I am wondering if I am diagnosing him wrong - it is definately whitish, but its not really flufy,

it doesnt really look like ick from how ppl have described it, or picks I have seen though.

he definately has white-ish rim around his eyes as well

His equilibrium is off, he just doesnt swim higher than like 6 inches off the gravel -

Is there anything else it could be?

I attached the best pic I could get with my camera, not sure it will help - I attached it as a PDF (seemed the best way I can get a high res pic up here)

Lady Hobbs - When you said fungal tabs cleared up your fungas right away, what time frame did you mean? I am not used to sick fish -

Thanks -

[Lady Hobbs]

Depends of course on how bad it is but if you caught it fairly soon, it should clear up in a matter of days. Give the med some extra time in the tank just to make sure.

Advance fungus gets a rather cotton looking appearence. When it first starts out, it's on a white or yellowish area.

Sorry, but I can't view pictures in Acrobat.

[gem]

I don't know if anyone else has been able to look at the pic of his pleco, as Hobbs said she couldn't, but it comes up on my puter. Honestly, by that pic, I really can't see anything on him. He looks pretty normal to me. Unless you're referring to the tiny white specs in the pic on the oppsite side of his head (barely visable in the pic) Really too hard to see in the pic, so I wouldn't want to say Ich, but if it looks like someone sprinkled salt on him, then ich it is.
Sorry about your other fish....this sometimes happens to the best of us.
As for the cloudiness in the tank, alot of meds will kill off your bio filter (beneficial bacteria) and , as already said, can start a mini cycle or bacterial bloom that appears as milky water. Like Hobbs said, it should clear up in days if you don't do anything. If you have meds in the tank now, finish treating the tank and after, do a water change (not huge) and put the carbon back in your filter. The carbon should do a good job of filtering out any meds left in the tank. If the water turns milky again.....let it go a few days and see if it clears...it should.
Good luck with your tank.

[Mikey0727]

yeah, sorry about the pic - it really was the best I could do with my cam :(

As far as not being able to read, if you have acrobat reader you should see it. Most people have that, and the forum gives you a file size for pdf you can work with. I tried to use the jpg, by the time i got down to a size / res it will let me upload, you cant see ANYTHING

I was refering to the whitish area right around the rim of his beak / snout, if you zoom in all the way you should be able to see -

Anyone have a clear pic of a real fish with ick? I looked for some, i found blury, and cartoon drawing ones. Since I have never seen it, Id like to be sure. He doesnt really look like someone salted him - but i want to look at a good pic if one is around. (and in the future I will know what im looking at if it pops up)

I definately had a mini-cycle, the cloudy water cleared up just as everyone said it would - (you guys and gals know ur stuff! :c12: ) I also started reading the free e-book

[Jv Torres]

me i just use methylyn blue and it works fine thumbs2: