Fishless cycle for over 2 months - help!

[Tater67]

Hi all,
I started my cycle at the beginning of July following a guide I found online (wish I had found this forum first!). This guide said to add ammonia, daily if necessary, to maintain it at 2 - 4 ppm. After about 4 weeks the ammonia and nitrites dropped to zero two days in a row. I thought great, the cycle is complete! I did a large water change (75%) to get the nitrates down to 20. I knew it would be a day or two before I could get to the lfs so I added one last dose of ammonia. On the day I was ready to get fish I decided to test one more time. To my surprise the nitrites were at 2 ppm and nitrates were back up to 80. I decided to continue the cycling process, adding ammonia daily. Each day ammonia went to zero but nitrites fluctuated between 1 and 2. This lasted another 2 weeks. Then for the next 5 days ammonia stayed between 0.25 and 0.5 with nitrites staying around 1. Confused and frustrated, I did some more research and found this forum. I realized I was probably adding too much ammonia, so started adding only when it went to zero and only enough to bring it up to 1 ppm. It takes 2 to 3 days for it to drop to 0 and the nitrites are consistently at 0. This has been going on for 2 weeks. Any ideas what might be going on?

Details on the setup in case it helps:

40 gallon tank
Aqua Clear 70 filter (includes the AC Biomax filter, foam filter and activated carbon filter)
Bubbler
Temp set at 82
Pea sized, rounded gravel substrate
Aqueon Optibright LED light
Decorations include a mixture of live and fake plants, driftwood, 2 large rocks and a plastic cave

This entire time the water has been clear with a little algae on the driftwood, which I read is normal. I'm using the API master test kit. I hope this all makes sense.

Thanks in advance for suggestions,

Richard

[Tater67]

Hi all,


I need advice with my fishless cycle. I started in early July using a guide I found online. After reading the one on this forum I now know I was using too much ammonia. I wish I had found this site sooner! Using the other guide, after a month I had two days in a row where both the ammonia and nitrites dropped to zero. I thought the cycle was complete so I did a 75% water change to get the nitrates down to 20 ppm. It was going to be a couple days before I could make it to the fish store, so I added a dose of ammonia to ensure the bacteria didn't die. Two days later I was ready to get fish I decided to test one more time. I was surprised to see the nitrites were back up to 2 ppm and nitrates at 80. I assumed the cycle wasn't quite complete so continued the process. For the next two weeks the ammonia was up and down and nitrites stayed around 1 ppm. I then found this forum, realized what I was doing wrong, and started adding ammonia only when it reached zero and only enough to bring it up to 1 ppm. It took 2 days for the ammonia to drop to zero. The nitrites were around 0.25 after the first day and zero by the second day. This went on for about a week. For the past two weeks, it is still taking 2 days for the ammonia but the nitrites stay at zero. Any ideas what's going on or do I just need to be patient and wait for the ammonia to be zero after 24 hours? I'm getting frustrated and tired of looking at an empty tank!

TIA,
Richard

[Slaphppy7]

What's the temp of the tank?

Do you have a bubbler going?

What's the tank ph?

[Tater67]

The temp is 82

Yes there is a bubbler

ph was 6.6 at last check, about 10 days ago

[Slaphppy7]

Do you happen to know your tap ph?

It's best to test a sample that has sat for a day or so...

[Tater67]

I'll test the tap water this weekend.

Do I just use a cup of water or does it need to me a larger amount?

[Slaphppy7]

Just a cup, all you need is enough to fill the test tube to the line

[Rocksor]

At your low PH, the bacteria colony doesn't work as well as those with a PH above 7.2. Hence, the ammonia reading 2 months later. But don't worry, the API Ammonia test reads total ammonia, meaning it reads toxic ammonia + non-toxic ammonia (ammonium). I would get Seachem Ammonia Alert to see if you are dealing with toxic ammonia.

Tap water that has chloramine as the disinfectant will read as ammonia on the API ammonia test.

[Slaphppy7]

Hey stranger, welcome back, good to hear from you again.

[Tater67]

I tested the ph of my tap water, it was 7.6, the highest reading on the chart. I retested using the high ph test and it was 7.4, the lowest reading. I guess I'll call it 7.5.

I also tested the tank water, it is 6.4

Rocksor
I will get the Ammonia Alert, thanks.

[Rocksor]

I tested the ph of my tap water, it was 7.6, the highest reading on the chart. I retested using the high ph test and it was 7.4, the lowest reading. I guess I'll call it 7.5.

I also tested the tank water, it is 6.4

Rocksor
I will get the Ammonia Alert, thanks.

Did you test the tap water after it has been sitting out for 24 hours in a cup? That will give you the most accurate PH reading.

[Tater67]

Did you test the tap water after it has been sitting out for 24 hours in a cup? That will give you the most accurate PH reading.

Yes, it sat for about 36 hours before testing.

[Rocksor]

If you do a water change, you can bring your tank water PH up as well as the KH (buffering capacity) that is naturally removed slowly during cyling. The amount a PH goes up is not linear so doing a 50% water change won't bring your PH back up to 7.0. I would start with a 25% water change and see how much your PH goes up and see if it still takes 2 days to process the ammonia. I would also remove the carbon from the filter.

[Tater67]

I did the 25% water change. I let it run for about 2 hours and checked the ph. It read the same as the tap water I tested, 7.4 - 7.6. I'm going to let it run for 24 hours and check it again.

I also removed the carbon filter as suggested.

[Tater67]

After 24+ hours, the ph was still 7.4 - 7.6 which surprised me.

After the water change yesterday I added ammonia to bring it back up to 1 ppm. Today it is at 0.5 ppm and nitrites are at zero.

I also installed the Seachem Ammonia Alert yesterday, it shows ALERT 0.05 ppm.

[Rocksor]

After 24+ hours, the ph was still 7.4 - 7.6 which surprised me.

After the water change yesterday I added ammonia to bring it back up to 1 ppm. Today it is at 0.5 ppm and nitrites are at zero.

I also installed the Seachem Ammonia Alert yesterday, it shows ALERT 0.05 ppm.

Okay so your tank can't handle all the 1ppm ammonia yet. But, smaller fish don't put out that much ammonia in one shot in a 40g tank.

Add in enough ammonia for 0.5ppm, or half your 1ppm dosage once the API ammonia and Seachem test reads 0ppm on ammonia. If it goes to 0ppm for the API ammonia test and Seachem Alert within 24 hours, you can slowly stock small fish over a period of weeks.

Have you thought about fish you wish to stock the tank with?

[Tater67]

Sorry I haven't been on in a while.

For the past 3 days the API test and Seachem Alert were 0. Today the ph was down to 6.6, ammonia and nitrites were still 0 and nitrates are 160 ppm. I did a 50% water change. About 2 hours later the ph is 7.6 and nitrates still 160. Another wc is needed.

This is my plan for stocking:

Start with 6 pepper cories. If all goes well after a couple weeks add 8 neon tetras and later 2 dwarf gourami's.

Questions:

You recommended removing the carbon filter, which I did. Now that the cycle is complete, should I replace it with a new one?

Is it normal for the drops in the API ammonia test Solution #2 to be larger than Solution #1? I have definitely used more #2. If not normal, would this make the reading higher or lower?

Thanks for your help.

[Slaphppy7]

No need for a new carbon filter, use the extra space for more ceramic media....carbon is mostly useless, unless trying to remove meds or other chemicals from a tank

Yes, the drop size is different with the 2 ammonia reagents....why?...I have no clue

Corys do better on sand than pebbles, but as long as there are no sharp edges, should be OK....try to get cardinal tetras instead of neons, just as pretty and (usually) much more hardy

[Rocksor]

Sorry I haven't been on in a while.

For the past 3 days the API test and Seachem Alert were 0. Today the ph was down to 6.6, ammonia and nitrites were still 0 and nitrates are 160 ppm. I did a 50% water change. About 2 hours later the ph is 7.6 and nitrates still 160. Another wc is needed.

This is my plan for stocking:

Start with 6 pepper cories. If all goes well after a couple weeks add 8 neon tetras and later 2 dwarf gourami's.

Questions:

You recommended removing the carbon filter, which I did. Now that the cycle is complete, should I replace it with a new one?

Is it normal for the drops in the API ammonia test Solution #2 to be larger than Solution #1? I have definitely used more #2. If not normal, would this make the reading higher or lower?

Thanks for your help.


Your tank is ready for the stocking and timeline you proposed. I would get nitrates down to less than 20ppm with water changes right before you purchase the cories. Test the ammonia and nitrites everyday after you add the fish. The Seachem Ammonia alert will cover for the liquid API ammonia test.

[Tater67]

Thanks again Rocksor and Slaphppy7 for your help and information. I want to provide the happiest & healthiest environment for my fish as possible, just like I would for any animal I keep. I'm looking forward to having fish swimming around, I'm tired of looking at an empty tank!

I must be crazy because I'm already thinking about getting another tank...