SixtyForty's 20 Gallon Journal

[SixtyForty]

Hello everyone!

I purchased an aqueon 20 gallon fish tank about a week ago. I had noooooooo idea about how to set up a tank until I did some research online after I had purchased my tank. Good grief I thought, this is going to require an effort to setup correctly! After about 2 days of good research, I absorbed the nitrogen cycle as best as I could and anything else I could find.

I dosed my tank with ammonia last night with the help of my api master test kit, I just hope everything goes well. I wish I had an adjustable heater so I could raise the water temp as some have suggested.

The basic hob filter that this tank came with, its an aqueon 10 power filter. Will this filter be ok to start with or do you think I should upgrade to something better right away? I was thinking about an aquaclear 30 so I can have some room to add some extra media?

I put in some cheap fake plants for now for something to look at while it cycles.

https://i.imgur.com/lC0uuwQ.jpg

[William]

Welcome to AC. Hopefully you will find it a good place to both learn and have fun.

[Slaphppy7]

Welcome to the AC.

Great job doing your research to learn how to properly set up your tank, before adding fish.

I highly advise getting an adjustable heater, especially if the room temp fluctuates significantly...and yes, a higher temp will speed up your cycle.

Yes, I would get an AC30, and cycle with it...save the Aqueon for a backup.

A few questions:

How do you plan on stocking the tank?...do you know the ph, gh, and kh of your tap water?

What kind of ammonia did you use, and how much did you add? What kind of water conditioer did you use?...City water, well water?

You've come to the best place for info and knowledge in fishkeeping, IMO, and very good luck to you.

[SixtyForty]

Good morning slaphppy7.

I'm going to order an adjustable heater today along with a new power filter. The supplied cheap aqueon heater supplied in my bundle is no longer heating properly anymore. :(

Our city water ph tested at @ 8.0

I have no idea on how to stock the tank once it cycles. I'm absolutely green when it comes to fish keeping.

I used some ammonia that I got from the dollar store. It didn't foam like the ammonia at the other dollar store I was at and is fragrance free. I ended up with adding 18 teaspoons all together to get my level to 4.5 ppm. Each teaspoon raised my level .25 ppm.

I used the aqueon water conditioner that came in my bundle. I let my tank run for 2 days before adding the ammonia last night. I do have some stability and prime on hand now for future use.

[Nautilus291]

Welcome to the forum! And like slap said good job at doing research before buying fish! 18 teaspoons is way to much for a 20g tank. How long did you wait to test your water after adding the ammonia? It takes awhile especially with a smaller filter to evenly disperse through your tank. When I get time later I'll find the online calculator I used to figure out how much ammonia to add.

[Slaphppy7]

Have a look at the Cobalt Neo Therm filters, they've become one of my favorites...a wee bit pricey compared to others, but they are accurate, reliable, and come with a built-in thermometer, so no need for another thermometer in the tank. It's always a good idea to have a digital pocket thermometer on hand for periodic temp checks, though.

TBH, 4.5 ppm ammonia is much too high for a tank that size...do you know the concentration of ammonium hydroxide of the ammonia you bought?...is it listed on the bottle, or is there an ingredients list?...I would dose that size tank at no more than 2 ppm ammonia to start a cycle.

Get some medicinal syringes, usually free at your pharmacy or very cheap from the dollar stores or Walmart...they are good for accurately measuring ammonia, and very handy for filling your test kit tubes with sample tank water for testing...they also make it a cinch to accurately dose your Prime (1ml/10G)

Use the chart at the bottom of this page to accurately dose your tank with ammonia: http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm But, you will need to know the concentration of your ammonia

Most of us who can find it use this: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/home-and-decor/cleaning-and-disinfectants/all-purpose-cleaners/10183

If I were you, I'd drain the tank and start over, with a concentration around 2%

Speaking of draining and filling the tank...do you have a faucet nearby, with a screw-on aerator?...if so, this thing is a must-have for fishkeeping, IMO...makes water changes (which you will be doing weekly or so after adding fish) MUCH easier to perform, they come in different lengths, 25 feet is the shortest: https://www.amazon.com/25-Foot-Python-Aquarium-Maintenance/dp/B000255NXC/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1544372521&sr=8-3&keywords=python+water+changer

Start using the Prime exclusively, it's the best conditioner out there, again IMO...hold off on the Stability, you may/probably won't need it

[Slaphppy7]

You've probably already seen this, be sure to follow the directions here carefully: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640

[SixtyForty]

Welcome to the forum! And like slap said good job at doing research before buying fish! 18 teaspoons is way to much for a 20g tank. How long did you wait to test your water after adding the ammonia? It takes awhile especially with a smaller filter to evenly disperse through your tank. When I get time later I'll find the online calculator I used to figure out how much ammonia to add.

I waited quite a long time in between adding more. I don't think the ammonia I used was very strong.

I just tested it again. It has been 7 hours since my last few teaspoons.

https://i.imgur.com/MbFW5Jg.jpg

[Slaphppy7]

Way too much, sorry to say, but easy to fix.

From the link I posted above in post #7:

"There are several reasons that a fishless cycle may fail.
1/ Not using a de-chlorinator
2/ Not reducing the amount of ammonia during the nitrite stage.
3/ Changing your filter media or cleaning the gravel or adding chemicals that you don’t need to add.
4/ Not having the patience to wait for the nitrite levels to drop.
5/ Over-dosing ammonia by starting with too much or adding more than once a day."

[SixtyForty]

You've probably already seen this, be sure to follow the directions here carefully: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=5640

I have read that and have it bookmarked for future use! Thank you.

This board is very active, I am grateful for that.

Thank you nautilus and slaphppy.

Are you sure 4 ish ppm is too much? In the fishless cycle page it said that it would ok, no? Ahh I see now where it says for small tanks 1-2 ppm.

Would I be able to just do a 50% water exchange and remove half of the ammonia or would the chlorine screw things up?

[Slaphppy7]

4 ish PPM of ammonia would be OK for a much larger tank, that is overfiltered and to be stocked heavily, maybe a 7G or 120G

I started with 3 PPM for my 40 breeder tank, but was expecting to stock that one heavily

For a 20G, 2 ppm would be plenty to start with, almost regardless of how you stock

[Slaphppy7]

Again, from the cycling thread: "If your tank is a small tank, will hold only a few fish and has a small filter, then you should began your cycle with far less ammonia…..perhaps only 1-2ppms. You do not need to grow a ton of bacteria for a few small fish."

[SixtyForty]

4 ish PPM of ammonia would be OK for a much larger tank, that is overfiltered and to be stocked heavily, maybe a 7G or 120G

I started with 3 PPM for my 40 breeder tank, but was expecting to stock that one heavily

For a 20G, 2 ppm would be plenty to start with, almost regardless of how you stock

I don't mind starting over if need be. But would I be able to just do a 50% water exchange to get my ammonia levels to 2 ppm?

[steeler58]

Welcome to the forum ;-)


https://youtu.be/CXZBYshUMUM

[Slaphppy7]

I don't mind starting over if need be. But would I be able to just do a 50% water exchange to get my ammonia levels to 2 ppm?

Perhaps...don't forget the Prime, dose for the entire amount of the tank (2 ml)...again, a medicinal syringe is great for this

Can you post a pic of the ammonia you used?

[SixtyForty]

https://i.imgur.com/isJPS2P.jpg

Like I said, it does not foam when shaken or contain any fragrance.

[Slaphppy7]

Is there an ingredients list, or percentage of ammonium hydroxide listed?

[SixtyForty]

Thank you steeler! Good morning to you.

[SixtyForty]

Is there an ingredients list, or percentage of ammonium hydroxide listed?

There is not.

[RiversGirl]

Welcome to the AC!

[SixtyForty]

Welcome to the AC!

Thank you!

[Nautilus291]

yes you can do a 50% water change to reduce the ammonia in your tank. When adding declorinator dose for thr full 20g even though you are only adding 10g of water. This is the rule of thumb for all water changes.

[SixtyForty]

Do you guys think this ammonia is ok? It doesn't smell like it has any fragrance and does not foam when I shake it.

[Slaphppy7]

This is the rule of thumb for all water changes.

It used to be, for doing WC's with a siphon...for buckets, you were to treat the bucket amount only

I'm of the persuasion that you treat the entire tank amount, regardless of the WC method used

[SueD]

Do you guys think this ammonia is ok? It doesn't smell like it has any fragrance and does not foam when I shake it.

Here is a thread from another forum with a post that asks about the ammonia you have. Look specifically at post #7 from someone who used this and seemed to have some issues. I'd maybe look around for something else.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8-general-planted-tank-discussion/1056441-ammonia-fishless-cycling.html

[Nautilus291]

It used to be, for doing WC's with a siphon...for buckets, you were to treat the bucket amount only

I'm of the persuasion that you treat the entire tank amount, regardless of the WC method used

Thanks for the correction! I feel the same as you. I'd rather spend a little extra money on prime then harm the tank not dosing enough by accident.

[SixtyForty]

Thank you everyone from saving me from failure! I drained my tank and rinsed everything off. This will give me time to order a new hob filter and a new heater.

[SixtyForty]

Thank you sue, nautilus and slaphppy. You are very kind.

[gadget228]

Welcome to the AC... :22:

[Slaphppy7]

Thank you sue, nautilus and slaphppy. You are very kind.

More than welcome.

[bpete]

welcome to the AC. it looks like you are off to a great start and are getting plenty of help from fellow members.

[Slaphppy7]

Thank you everyone from saving me from failure! I drained my tank and rinsed everything off. This will give me time to order a new hob filter and a new heater.

Be sure to get the "good" ammonia I linked, do you have an Ace Hardware nearby?

[SixtyForty]

Be sure to get the "good" ammonia I linked, do you have an Ace Hardware nearby?

There is but its an hour drive from here. I'm going to call them today to see if they have it in stock before making the trip.

Thank you!

[Slaphppy7]

Good idea to call first, they should have it...just get the quart size, that will be plenty...I've used the same bottle to cycle 5 tanks, and still have half of it left...less than $3, back when I bought mine

[SixtyForty]

Good idea to call first, they should have it...just get the quart size, that will be plenty...I've used the same bottle to cycle 5 tanks, and still have half of it left...less than $3, back when I bought mine

They have it in stock. :goldfish:

[Slaphppy7]

Good deal!

So, you drained the tank completely?...you may want to partially fill and drain again, just to get all of that other ammonia out of there

What about the Python water changer, have you considered it?...IMO, it's the most useful tool one can have for fishkeeping...hauling buckets is no fun

You can also DIY your own siphon hose, there's lots of vids on Youtube showing how to make your own

[SixtyForty]

Yes, drained completely. It looks all sad without water in it now. :( Its been rinsed well and I rinsed the gravel a few times also.

I may try to make my own siphon hose to save a few dollars if I can.

One thing I would like to do is build a better stand for my tank. I might do this around Xmas time. I don't have the funds to buy one new.

[Slaphppy7]

No worries, better it look sad temporarily than never cycle, or having mysterious fish deaths that we can never figure out.

Just an FYI, if you wish, I can move this thread to the Aquarium Journals section, that is where most of us post our aquarium build adventures...it will get more views than the Intro section, and maybe even more helpful advice...I can change the title, as well...just let me know

[SixtyForty]

Sure thing, you can move it if you would like.

You can change the title to "my 20 gallon journal" or something of the like.

[SixtyForty]

No worries, better it look sad temporarily than never cycle, or having mysterious fish deaths that we can never figure out.

That right there is why I will not cycle my tank with fish like some do. God forbid if any of my fish would have to suffer.

[Slaphppy7]

Sure thing, you can move it if you would like.

You can change the title to "my 20 gallon journal" or something of the like.

How about "SixtyForty's 20 Gallon Journal"?


That right there is why I will not cycle my tank with fish like some do. God forbid if any of my fish would have to suffer.

Great attitude, you should do fine with the hobby.

[Slaphppy7]

One thing I would like to do is build a better stand for my tank. I might do this around Xmas time. I don't have the funds to buy one new.

Here's a simple, sturdy plan I used for my 40B...you can change the dimensions to suit any tank size

56994

[SixtyForty]

That title would be fine.

About that stand, would the bottom of my tank fit around the top piece and not just sit on top of it?

[Slaphppy7]

The top and bottom of the stand would be the exact dimensions of the trim at the bottom of the tank.

No need for a top piece, but you could add one if you wish, as well as side walls, doors on the front, etc...I just painted mine black and left it open.

[Slaphppy7]

Thread moved to the Aquarium Journals section, title changed.

Thread now located here: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=128859

[SueD]

Yes, drained completely. It looks all sad without water in it now. :( Its been rinsed well and I rinsed the gravel a few times also.

I may try to make my own siphon hose to save a few dollars if I can.

One thing I would like to do is build a better stand for my tank. I might do this around Xmas time. I don't have the funds to buy one new.

Having 7 tanks myself, I can understand the excitement of setting up a new tank. But consider building your stand first, if that's what you want to do, before filling the tank up. It's a pain to have to move it once filled and cycling. Find the permanent location, too.

[Nautilus291]

Building your own is pretty cheap and easy if you have the right tools, and use the design slap showed you. Nice thing about it is you can make it look fancier later when you have more funds.

This stand is built off of that same frame. My dad and I added the decorative look later:

[SixtyForty]

That's a nice looking stand nautilus.

Thanks sue, I may build the stand first, I will have to see.

[SixtyForty]

I called the company in California where the ammonia is bottled that I initially purchased and it does indeed contain soap.

[Slaphppy7]

Did you tell them why you wanted to know?

[SixtyForty]

Did you tell them why you wanted to know?

I did yes.

I ran to the ace hardware in Wausau Wisconsin. Little did I know that the owner is into fish. He has a wonderful selection of fish and fish supplies at the hardware store. He had two peacock bass in this HUUUUUGE tank, the one must have been 18 inches long! Was really cool to see.

I picked up a heater while I was there along with my ammonia.

https://i.imgur.com/oBhA5vT.jpg

[Nautilus291]

That's really neat! I've never been to an ace hardware that stocked aquarium supplies.

Since you found out that the other ammonia had soap in it make sure to rinse everything out in your tank really well.

[Slaphppy7]

I did yes.

I ran to the ace hardware in Wausau Wisconsin. Little did I know that the owner is into fish. He has a wonderful selection of fish and fish supplies at the hardware store. He had two peacock bass in this HUUUUUGE tank, the one must have been 18 inches long! Was really cool to see.

I picked up a heater while I was there along with my ammonia.

https://i.imgur.com/oBhA5vT.jpg

Well worth the road trip...as mentioned above, I'd never expect to encounter well-kept fish and supplies at a hardware store.

How neat is that.

Congrats on the new supplies.

[SixtyForty]

I did rinse it and the gravel really well.

There are quite a few hardware stores around here with fish keeping supplies. The entire northern half of the state is rural, is probably a good way to make a few extra dollars.

I went with a seachem tidal 35 hob filter also, should be here friday.

[Slaphppy7]

I
I went with a seachem tidal 35 hob filter also, should be here friday.

I've read good reviews on them here at the AC

[SixtyForty]

I filled my tank and treated it with prime last night. Should I leave it for a few days before adding the ammonia or?

[Slaphppy7]

You can add the ammonia at any time.

Get your temp up to around 82F, and add an airstone, if you have one.

[SixtyForty]

Good deal! I can finally get things underway. Thanks.

[Slaphppy7]

Don't forget to use the calculator at the bottom of this page for ammonia dosing, the Ace ammonia concentration is 10%

http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

[SixtyForty]

I did, plus I have a syringe to measure, should make things pretty easy.

[Slaphppy7]

Great...keep that syringe separate from the others (if you have more), I marked mine "AMM" with a Sharpie

[RiversGirl]

Great tip ^ to keep the ammonia measuring tool separate from any others. I've rubberbanded mine to the bottle.

It is wonderful to see you are starting off your tank in such a healthy manner. I'm excited to follow along with your build!

What a delight that you've found such an interesting ACE store. I hope you will be able to visit it, whenever life requires you to be out in that area.

[SixtyForty]

Thank you happy and rivergirl!

I went bumming today to check out all of the local(ish) fish stores. I wanted to get an idea of where I might buy my first fish from. I think I'll buy my first fish from the ace hardware store as they all look very healthy. I was thinking may a few cichlids but I know nothing about them, or if they would even be ok it a 20g tank with the type of gravel I have in my tank. I suppose I could change my gravel to something else if need be.

Here is a few pics of their peacock bass. The lady said she didn't know exactly how old they were, but have been in the store for decades. I could sense that they didn't feel very happy in their home.

https://i.imgur.com/RegEDBC.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/7vzzmVL.jpg?1

[Boundava]

Wait, there is an Ace hardware in WI that sells fish? Its not near the IL border is it?

[SixtyForty]

Wait, there is an Ace hardware in WI that sells fish? Its not near the IL border is it?

It's in Wausau.

[Boundava]

Aw its too far!

[SixtyForty]

Correct ammonia WITHOUT SOAP IN IT!!!, check!
A new heater with adjustable temp, check!
H2O chilling at 82 degrees, check!
2 ppm ammonia level, check!
A kind forum board with members that don't want to see me fail, check!

https://i.imgur.com/D93OE2N.jpg?1

[SueD]

I did rinse it and the gravel really well.

There are quite a few hardware stores around here with fish keeping supplies. The entire northern half of the state is rural, is probably a good way to make a few extra dollars.

I went with a seachem tidal 35 hob filter also, should be here friday.

That's a great choice of filter. I have the Tidal 55 and Tidal 75 filters and love them. The Tidal 35 just recently came out I'm just waiting for one of my smaller Aqua Clear filters to die so I can replace it with the Tidal 35. Can't justify replacing a working filter right now.

Have you considered some live plants? We can help with that too.

[SixtyForty]

Good evening Sue.

I have considered a few live plants yes.

[Boundava]

Agree the Tidal is a great choice. I love my 75 and if I need a HOB in the future, it will be a Tidal.

[SixtyForty]

It has been 72 hours since I added my ammonia. It is still at 2 ppm or so with 0 nitrites.

[Slaphppy7]

I forget, and am too lazy to go back and look, but has an airstone been mentioned in this thread, to aid with the cycle?

Since we've raised the temp of the tank, the oxygen content has most likely lowered...warmer water holds less O2

An airstone (bubbler) doesn't add O2 directly into the water column, but the surface agitation aids in gas exchange at the surface

Your BB (beneficial bacteria) require O2 to grow, so a better oxygenated tank will help the colony more quickly

If you don't have an air pump/airstone going, I recommend you get one, cheap and easy to set up, and if you don't like bubbles, just use it to help cycle your future tanks, once MTS* sets in.

*Multiple Tank Syndrome

[SixtyForty]

Hi slaphppy. Yes, I have an airstone running in the tank and its still at 82 degrees.

[Nautilus291]

Have you thought anymore about what fish you want to consider?

[Slaphppy7]

Hi slaphppy. Yes, I have an airstone running in the tank and its still at 82 degrees.

Good, and hello again

Now that you've set up the best scenario for a successful fishless cycle, comes the hardest part

The patience you must have for it to complete

There's a saying in the hobby, "nothing good happens fast", and it applies to fishless cycling more than anything else

I've cycled 4 tanks with pure ammonia, average length of time to cycle is 3 weeks

No need to check params for a few days, but there's other things to do while you wait, like planning which fish you'd like to try, considering real plants, deco, etc...

You can plant during a cycle...lots of easy-to-grow plants out there for beginners

Check params again in 48 hours

[SixtyForty]

The patience you must have for it to complete


I do. I know this will take a while. :goldfish: :fish: :goldfish:

Hi Nautilus. I was thinking about maybe a gourami (or 2 if they would get along, I know nothing about them) and some small community fish. Maybe some zebra danios or something? I'm not really sure though.
I've read that the gourami's are good for beginners and that is why I was sort of leaning that way. You are more than welcome to make a few suggestions if you'd like.
I would like to have one or two larger fish along with some smaller ones. The ph of our city water here is around 8.

[Nautilus291]

Dwarf gourami are notoriously weak genes so I'd stay away from them. (The bright blue or blue and red gourami you see in the stores).

Check out the honey gourami. They are s pretty fish, and stay small enough for your tank size. They don't have the same disease problems the dwarf gourami have, so I think they make a better "beginner" fish. Gourami love floating plants, so if you are considering having live plants you can look into some floating plants for them.

Zebra danios are a pretty active fish you could probably keep them in a 20g, but in my opinion they need more swimming space.

I haven't kept too many schooling fish, but Harlequin rasbora's have always caught my eye! steeler58 seems to always have good suggestion for schooling fish, maybe he can suggest some good options.

If I remembered correctly you talked about cichlids. There aren't too many that can go in a smaller tank, and I would stay away from Rams and apistogrammas as they can be harder to keep. The krib could be an option. But cichlids are known to have different personalities. you may get one that works great in your community tank, or you may get one that doesn't get along at all.

[steeler58]

You can't go wrong with Harlequins or their close relative, Trigonostigma espei, once your tank is established Rummy nose tetra are one of the finest schooling fish. Other small tetra's would be Glowlights, Pristilla, head and tail lights, black neon and gold tetra's just to name a few of the more readily available and hardy.

[SixtyForty]

Check params again in 48 hours

Will do! Thanks.

[SixtyForty]

Thanks slaphppy and nautilus.

Slaphppy, I would like to have some live plants. Which plant species would be right for a beginner tank? Would I have to do anything special to my tank to have them?

I will see if the lfs has honey gourami's.

@ steeler, thanks for the suggestions. I googled them and really like the look of the Trigonostigma espei's.

[Slaphppy7]

Look at java fern, java moss, amazon swords, many of the crypts are easy beginner plants
Boundava and Angelcraze are 2 of our plant gurus, they could help more than me

Espeis would do better than harleys, IMO, with a 20 tall, they're pretty much identical, but the espeis are smaller

Also look at false (green) neons, ember tetras, and some of the smaller barbs and rasboras

I'm a huge fan of the rummy nose tetras, but they need alot of lateral swimming room, not sure they'd have enough in a 20T

A single pearl gourami may work, nut I like the suggestion of the honeys, that stay a bit smaller

Depending on what fish you finally decide on, you could keep shrimp and a snail or two, also

[SixtyForty]

The next time Im at petco, I will see if they have any of these plants for sale. As far as I know, its the only lfs that sells plants.

[Slaphppy7]

You can order plants online, as well, lots of vendors out there

Here's a little beginner package I started out with for my 40B

https://shop.plantedaquariumscentral.com/20-Gallon-Low-Light-Plant-Package_p_62.html

[SixtyForty]

Day 8, still no nitrites. Hopefully they show up soon!

I use a really expensive filter in our furnace here that is supposed to filter very well, I wonder if our air in the house here is just really clean and there isn't much bacteria floating around?

[Slaphppy7]

Nah, the bacteria is there, just give it time...temp is around 82F, air bubbler going, treated with Prime before starting, all that fun stuff?

[SixtyForty]

Nah, the bacteria is there, just give it time...temp is around 82F, air bubbler going, treated with Prime before starting, all that fun stuff?

Yup, was treated with prime, bubbler is going, water is at 82 degrees. :goldfish::fish::goldfish:

[Slaphppy7]

Just let her go for now

Some have had faster cycle success by introducing BB colonized media from an established tank to a new tank

You could ask for a bit of cycled media from an LFS, but the unknowns are too great for me to even consider...who knows what else is in those tanks?...pathogens, maybe?...more than likely?...probably?...who knows

If you had a fellow aquarist nearby, who has some safe, colonized media, much better

The good news is, when you set up your next tank, you'll have trusty, established media to borrow from :ssmile:

[SixtyForty]

Just let her go for now

Will do.

My lfs is kind of dirty or I would ask them.

What is the longest you guys have ever seen for nitrites to show? Just curious.

[Slaphppy7]

I usually see them within 8-10 days, sometimes quicker

How about your ammonia level?...what PPM did you start with, and what does it measure now?

[SixtyForty]

I started with 2ppm and it still tests at that level.

Seems that my cycle is just taking a while to start.

[Slaphppy7]

Patience is key in this hobby, you'll get there

[SixtyForty]

I found a local hobbyist who is willing to give me some of his gravel. I'll be back in a few hours, hopefully with a bucket of his gravel!

[SixtyForty]

That didn't work out, his tanks weren't clean.

[Nautilus291]

Ya, that's probably for the best then. The new fish you will be adding are going to be stressed and susceptible to parasites and disease. It would stink if you accidentally added something to your new tank that wouldn't have been there otherwise.

Back when I lived in a house that had well water cycling a new tank would take me 6 weeks to 2 months. I would get on this forum and read about how other peoples tanks were cycled in 3 weeks and it would drive me crazy waiting lol! The first couple of weeks are the hardest though, every time you do a test you get the same reading, and it feels like nothing is happening. Once you start noticing a change it will feel like things are moving along, and it will make the wait a little more bearable! Trust me sitting around waiting is much easier then the alternative, 50% water changes twice a day and then still watching some fish not make it.

[SixtyForty]

I hear that nautilus. I want my fish to be happy, disease and especially stress free.

Thank you for your support here on the board everyone, it makes the wait sooooooo much easier!

[SixtyForty]

Well after two and a half weeks zero nitrites showed up. I think that the first ammonia I used (that had soap in it) soaked into my gravel and would not allow my ammonia eating bacteria to show up even though I rinsed it well.

I emptied my tank tonight and will start over with some fresh gravel and a good rinse of everything. I didn't like the bright green color of this gravel anyways so Its kind of a mixed blessing that I can dump it and get something natural in color. Maybe something that isn't as coarse either in case I feel like getting a bottom dweller or two.

[Slaphppy7]

I emptied my tank tonight and will start over with some fresh gravel and a good rinse of everything. I didn't like the bright green color of this gravel anyways so Its kind of a mixed blessing that I can dump it and get something natural in color. Maybe something that isn't as coarse either in case I feel like getting a bottom dweller or two.

This is your best course of action.

I would replace the gravel with sand, bottom dwellers would appreciate the smoother texture, and it's good for growing plants...easier to keep clean, as well, IME

Look at PFS from Home Depot, inexpensive, looks great, and needs no rinsing...around $6-7 for a 50# bag, Lowe's around $10/bag

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete-50-lb-Pool-Filter-Sand-115350/202314677

https://www.lowes.com/pd/QUIKRETE-50-lb-Sand-Pool-Filter-Aid/3595316

It may be a bit harder to find in wintertime than summertime, though...during the summer, my local Home Depot keeps pallets of the stuff

[SixtyForty]

I'll give the sand a try slaphpyy.

I'll pick up a bag tomorrow and start over.

[Slaphppy7]

Hopefully you can find it in stock...1 bag for a 20 (tall, isn't it?) should be enough...you're wanting at least 1 1/2" depth for rooting plants

Yes, take everything out of the tank, rinse well and scrub with a clean brush or rag in hot tap water, if you can...cold tap works as well...just NO soap of any kind...rinse and repeat

You found the Ace ammonia?...or did you go with the Dr. Tim's?...a few start-up cycles here going on lately, making sure I have the right one, lol

[SixtyForty]

I just picked up a bag of pool sand. Now I won't have to look at that awful color green gravel that I first had, how awful, I don't know what I was thinking.

Yup! Ace ammonia in hand. :goldfish::fish::goldfish:

I'll give everything a good rinse and fill the tank back up tonight.

[Slaphppy7]

Nice...review the fishless sticky thread when you get a chance...no rush...you don't even have to dose ammonia tonight, get the tank filled and running, let the temp level out around 82F...play around with deco/plants

DO NOT forget to dose with Prime before adding ammonia...and for a 20G tank, I'd shoot for 1-2 PPM ammonia, certainly no more than 2

[SixtyForty]

Sand looks soooooo much nicer in my tank than that awful green gravel I had in there.

Everything is up and running again. Ill dose the tank with ammonia tomorrow after my temps level off.

[Slaphppy7]

Sounds good...yes, the PFS tends to look a "bit" more natural than green gravel, lol

[SixtyForty]

I tested today and not only do I have nitrites, I have nitrates also! And my ammonia level had dropped by half from 1 ppm to around .5.

A few days ago I turned up the temp

I'm at 1 ppm nitrite and 30ish ppm nitrate.

[Slaphppy7]

It's working, steady as she goes...and congrats :22:

Monitor daily, when that ammonia hits zero, redose 1/2 of your original amount

[SixtyForty]

It's working, steady as she goes...and congrats :22:

Monitor daily, when that ammonia hits zero, redose 1/2 of your original amount

Thanks! Hopefully soon I can go and get my fish.

[SixtyForty]

Everything is going well slaphppy. I'm dosing the tank everyday and everything is going well. Hopefully soon when I test in the morning I will show zero nitrites, I can't wait to add some fish.

[Slaphppy7]

That's great news, your patience will pay off, I guarantee it

Call me Matt...longtime members here do, and I think you may become one of them :22:

[SixtyForty]

Well my tank finished cycling and I stocked it with fish. I have two blue dwarf gourami's, 5 zebra danios, and two tiny cory cats. The two dwarfs seem to get along.

The day after stocking my tank my nitrites went up to 2 ppm and haven't come down. I dosed the tank with prime and stability to hopefully help things along. Is there any advice that anyone can give me to get rid of the nitrites?

I'm really concerned for my fishes health and well being.

[Slaphppy7]

Water change, done properly, never hurts

Anytime you see trItes in a tank with fish, you do a WC

I'd do 60-70%, and dose with enough Prime for the entire volume of the tank

I wouldn't use the Stability, no need to complicate things right now

Be sure to match tap temp to tank temp before refilling the tank, and keep that media submerged in old tank water at all times during the WC

[SixtyForty]

Hello Matt. Do you think I stalled my cycle somehow? Did some or all of my beneficial bacteria die maybe?

I'm off to do a water change right now. I dosed the tank with prime this morning, is there such a thing as using too much prime?

[Slaphppy7]

Do the WC as described above

Seachem claims you can safely dose up to 5X the recommended amount, in extreme conditions, with no ill effect on fish

I don't think the cycled "stalled", I think you may be going through a mini-cyclee after adding the fish...it's not uncommon

After the WC, and the fish seem fine, let the tank go a full 24 hours before testing params again...don't feed tonight, lower the light, and try to keep activity around the tank to a minimum, let the new fish settle in

Have you ever done a full API test on your tap water? Ammonia, trItes, and trAtes?....the ph test on your tap water is best done on a day-old cup of tap, let it gas off first

Let us know how things go after the WC...

[SixtyForty]

Yes, I have tested our city water here, it never showed anything and our ph is around 8.0.

I changed the water right after you said to do so. All of the fish are happy and are very active. My gourami's were super curious of me when I did the water change and were right at the surface to see what I was doing. :goldfish: :fish:

One of my zebra danios is showing some white stuff on his back and side, I hope its not ick. I'll get a pic of him.

One of my zebra danios died overnight also. Made me super bummed :( I'll never give the fish store I got my fish from any more of my business.

https://i.imgur.com/Laq0Br5.jpg?1

[Slaphppy7]

Very good.

Sorry about the ZD losses, they're so popular that they are sometimes overbred, which can lead to weakness or sensitivity to new water conditions....and maybe more prone to illness.

Speaking of your current stocking, they (the zebra danios) and the corys do much better in larger groups, they're both social fish that feel more comfortable in groups, the corys at least 6, the danios I've never owned but would recommend at least 12, in a tank size you have...a 20L, correct?

Before adding ANY new fish, though, let's get the tank stabilized

The dwarf gouramis may be a bit tricky...another fish that is very popular and probably overbred (oversold to newbies, as well), do you know the sex of the 2?...male and femal, 2 males, 2 females?...if they are very young, may be hard to distinguish just yet

A good read on them, see "Behavior & Compatibility" and "Notes", particularly

https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/trichogaster-lalius/


And BTW, congrats on finally getting fish!...I wouldn't dismiss your LFS just yet, let's see how things go with what you have, for now

[SixtyForty]

Thanks Matt, Its been a long time in the making to get to this point, and to be honest, It's giving me a bit of stress but I know I'll work through it. It has also been quite the learning experience, I never would have thought it would be this much work when I purchased my tank. The tank I have is a 20 gallon.

My two gourami's have been getting along great all day and are super inquisitive about me if I'm around the tank, especially if the lid is open. I'll get a few more corys once my tank settles in. The two that I have make me smile every time I see them hanging out together. They are always together and if they are resting they are usually touching each other, is so awesome.

I do not know yet the sex of the gourami's.

[Slaphppy7]

Thanks Matt, Its been a long time in the making to get to this point, and to be honest, It's giving me a bit of stress but I know I'll work through it. It has also been quite the learning experience, I never would have thought it would be this much work when I purchased my tank. The tank I have is a 20 gallon.

My two gourami's have been getting along great all day and are super inquisitive about me if I'm around the tank, especially if the lid is open. I'll get a few more corys once my tank settles in. The two that I have make me smile every time I see them hanging out together. They are always together and if they are resting they are usually touching each other, is so awesome.

I do not know yet the sex of the gourami's.

There's two common 20 size gallon tanks, a "high" (20H) and a "long" (20L), see here: https://www.aqua-calc.com/page/tank-sizes

The pic in your post above came through just now (?), looks like some kind of fungus on that ZD...for now, I'd just let the tank progress on it's own, lights out early, and see how things look tomorrow

[SixtyForty]

Its a 20 high.

[SueD]

Are you getting your fish from a chain store like PetSmart or Petco or from a LFS? (not knocking the chain stores - I had danios and others from there years ago and they did very well) But I wouldn't replace the danios with other danios. While they are generally hardy fish and fun to watch, they like a little more length as they tend to be active swimmers. After you're sure the tank is going to be more stable, do some additional research on the fish that may be available to you before you buy. We've all had our patience tested waiting to get the fish in the tank. But educated choices will make your experience more satisfying.

Do you know which species of cory you have? Some will grow larger than others. In a 20H tank, I would probably limit them to 5.

And just as an FYI, I've had a fish with fungus before and while that fish did die, it didn't spread to any other fish. Hopefully you may have the same experience, but I'm not that knowledgeable about fish diseases in general. Others may be of more help as to possible treatments like maybe API Fungus Cure.

[Slaphppy7]

Agree with Sue about the danios, I was thinking you had a 20L

How are the fish looking this morning?....remember to wait a full 24 hours before testing your water again

[SixtyForty]

Good morning Sue and Matt. The ZD with the spots didn't make it overnight.

I got my fish from a small family owned pet store. I'm sure the owners would let me bring back my remaining zd's, which is what I would like to do if my tank is not big enough for them.

Corydoras paleatus is what I purchased.

Thanks for all of your support, Chris.

[SixtyForty]

Everyone looks healthy this morning, they are all active and getting along.

[Slaphppy7]

Good morning Sue and Matt. The ZD with the spots didn't make it overnight.

I got my fish from a small family owned pet store. I'm sure the owners would let me bring back my remaining zd's, which is what I would like to do if my tank is not big enough for them.

Corydoras paleatus is what I purchased.

Thanks for all of your support, Chris.

It's not that the tank isn't big enough for the ZD's, they just tend to swim the length of the tank alot...like I said earlier, I've never kept them, just going on what others have said...I don't think it would be a huge problem to add more, if you like them

Definitely get more corys after the tank settles in a bit, though...I'd still add 4 more

Good to hear the fish are doing well this morning

[SixtyForty]

My one gourami is becoming slightly aggressive, I'll have to keep a close eye on him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB5dbNONUtA&list=UUBy5EDa6M8-lTewpOGCTUpA&index=1

[Slaphppy7]

Nice start, not a bad first effort at all

Couple of suggestions:

First, get that water level filled to at least midway of the top trim...you want your filter outflow to flow outward onto the water surface, not dump into it...you'll get better gas exchange that way, and the surface won't so be rough...may calm the fish, a bit

Second, get a black (or other color) background on the tank, it will make the colors of the fish and plants stand out much more...something as simple and cheap and easy as a black posterboard or two, cut to fit and either taped or clipped onto the back glass...you'll like the difference it makes, for viewing the whole tank, and the fish may like it as well

Too late to paint the back glass, no big deal, but that's what I'll do with all of my tanks from now on...there's other here who make some really neat DIY backgrounds for their tank, as well

Avoid the store-bought "glue on" or "stick on" backgrounds, they eventually peel away and end up looking like crap

When's your next water test?

What kind of LED fixture is on the tank, I forget....it sure is bright

[SixtyForty]

My next water test will be tonight at around 6pm central time.

If and when I need to add water to the tank, lets say this small amount to get it to the level you recommended, would I need to use prime again to treat it?

The led light is the one that came with my aqueon fish tank kit. It was their "better" kit because of this upgraded led light, or so I was told.

[Slaphppy7]

I top off with a pitcher of tap, with a few drops of Prime before filling it...but if it's right after a WC, and the tank was treated with for the full amount, you don't even need to treat the small amount of added tap you'll add

Is the LED adjustable, or just on/off/moonlight etc...?

[SixtyForty]

Yes, on, off and moonlight. What is the moonlight used for, as a nightlight? Should I be using it?

[SixtyForty]

Here is a pic of my dear pups, she passed in 2014 and I miss her dearly. I can almost hear what she was thinking. "Dad! There are squirrels in this tree! I will keep an eye on them for you"! She had big bright blue eyes and was full of love.
My favorite pic of her is the one below where she has her head held low as she walked up to me. Her spirit was so very gentle.

https://i.imgur.com/HLrRTZA.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/zy2zAbs.jpg?1

[SixtyForty]

Its been 24 hours since last nights 60% water exchange.

I just tested my water and its @

Ammonia .25
Nitrites 1
Nitrates 20ish

[Slaphppy7]

Yes, on, off and moonlight. What is the moonlight used for, as a nightlight? Should I be using it?

The moonlight setting can be used whenever you want...most use it at night, when all of the house lights are off...you can still view the tank and fish, w/out them seeing you, if you're stealthy, lol

Heck, turn the moonlight setting on now, see how the fish react for a few hours...won't hurt anything

We'll get you another LED with many more options, when you're ready


Here is a pic of my dear pups, she passed in 2014 and I miss her dearly. I can almost hear what she was thinking. "Dad! There are squirrels in this tree! I will keep an eye on them for you"! She had big bright blue eyes and was full of love.
My favorite pic of her is the one below where she has her head held low as she walked up to me. Her spirit was so very gentle.

https://i.imgur.com/HLrRTZA.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/zy2zAbs.jpg?1

Aww, sweet girl


Its been 24 hours since last nights 60% water exchange.

I just tested my water and its @

Ammonia .25
Nitrites 1
Nitrates 20ish

I think I'd just add a few drops of Prime, and test again tomorrow after 24h

Fish are acting fine?...how many times have you fed, since getting them?

[SixtyForty]

Thanks Matt for the reply.

By a few drops, do you mean 2 ml? 2 ml treats 20 gallons.

The fish look good! No one is acting weird or lethargic, nor hanging out at the surface. I've been feeding them twice a day, small amounts each time, making sure each fish got some. I ordered some Hikari micro pellets that should be here in a few days, they seemed to get stellar reviews. I've been feeding them the aqueon flakes that came with my tank kit. Is there a brand of flakes that they might like better?

I've been keeping the water temp at 77.

[Slaphppy7]

Welcome, Chris, enjoy the journey...IMO, you've done very well, and I'm looking forward to seeing this tank mature, so we can start planning your next one

No, by "a few drops" of Prime, I mean maybe 1/4 of 1 ml, or even less. I keep Prime in a small glass jar, with a lid. Easier to draw the correct amount of Prime that way, with my syringe, than trying to draw from the bottle it comes in...refill my little jar from the bottle as needed...om WC day, fill the syringe from the jar with the proper amount, cap the jar and put aside for next time

By "a few drops", I'll usually just get a clean regular old teaspoon, and throw in a "few drops" from the jar, a tiny scoop of the spoon...if that makes sense

[SixtyForty]

IMO, you've done very welle

I've had a great coach! :goldfish: :fish: :goldfish:

I'll drop in about 1/4 ml of prime.

[Slaphppy7]

Have you tried a cheapo dark background yet?

Even a cut-to-size square of black vinyl trash bag, taped to cover the entire back glass, will give you an idea of the different look

[SixtyForty]

I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow for a dark background. I think black trash bag like you mentioned should work well.

[SixtyForty]

Its been 24 hours since my last test, everything is the same as it was yesterday.

ammonia .25
nitrite 1
nitrate 10-20 ish

What is the long term plan Matt for my tank? Will my nitrate eventually be broken down into nitrates? What will happen if this does not happen?

[Slaphppy7]

Your nitrItes are already being broken down, otherwise you wouldn't have nitrAtes

Short term plan is a 50-60% WC, treat Prime for the entire tank amount, match the temps, you know the drill by now, then test again in 24 hours

Post a pic of that test here tomorrow, all three test tubes, if you can

As long as you are using Prime, don't worry about those AMM/ITE readings for now, they'll be neutralized anyway

Long term?...hopefully (probably) there won't be one as far as getting the water right

Patience is key...I'm frankly surprised you are showing trItes again...how are the fish doing?

May be a mini-cycle happening, no big deal, as long as you stay on top of it with daily water tests

[SixtyForty]

how are the fish doing?

I lost another zd today, now I'm down to 3. I also returned the aggressive gourami and took home 2 corys in trade. I have 4 corys now. They are all active and eating well, no one seems to be showing any signs of stress.

Should I do the wc tonight or tomorrow night?

[Slaphppy7]

I'd do the WC every time I see any trItes, at least once daily

Those ZD's may have been weak stock, they're overbred many times, and can be sold with alot of issues that aren't apparent at first glance

Good job rehoming the DG, and glad to hear the new corys are assimilating with the old

Do not overfeed, you can go 2 or 3 days w/out feeding, the fish will be fine

Getting the water params right is priority for now

[SixtyForty]

Ok thank you.

[SixtyForty]

I forgot to post the pic last night.

This test is from just now. I did not do a wc last night.

https://i.imgur.com/E2ARddf.jpg?1

[Slaphppy7]

Large WC is in order.

Are you keeping your media submerged in old tank water during water changes?

Seems like you are losing BB somehow, this tank was cycled, and you haven't overstocked with fish

[SixtyForty]

I do keep it submerged, yes. I unplug everything while I do the wc.

My media consisted of the piece of foam that came with my filter and also a bag of seachem "matrix".

[SixtyForty]

Two of the fake plants that I have in there used to be in my old ammonia with the soap in it. I put them in after you said my tank was cycled. I rinsed them really really well, is there any chance that they tainted my tank?

I just did another 60% wc.

[Slaphppy7]

I wouldn't think so, since you rinsed really well.

You are dosing Prime for the entire tank amount at every WC, correct? (2 ml)

Check params again after 24 hours

[SixtyForty]

You are dosing Prime for the entire tank amount at every WC, correct? (2 ml)

Yes, 2 ml.

[Slaphppy7]

Any recent deaths in the tank, that may have gone unnoticed?

I highly doubt it, you've kept a keen eye on the tank, for weeks. Depending on the setup, one small death can sometimes cause serious issues, decaying flora/fauna can produce ammonia, and a new setup and cycle can be sensitive to the smallest changes in water params

Overfeeding can cause the same issues...be sure no one is "sneaking" a feed to the fish

Remind me which filter you use, is it a HOB filter?...Aquaclear or other?




Overfeeding will

[SixtyForty]

I use a seachem tidal 35 hob filter.

The tank is clean and I always pulled the dead zebra danios out as quickly as possible.

I don't think I've been overfeeding them and no one else here feeds the fish.

The only thing I can think of is my tank maybe wasn't cycled when I added my fish. I do remember reading somewhere, that someone was talking about the nitrite test, something along the lines of if your test goes dark purple and then slowly changes to blue that it was a bad test and there were nitrites present. I wish I could remember exactly what they said, but it was something along those lines. That's what my test kit was doing, making me think that my tank was not fully cycled.

My test would indeed go dark purple and then change slowly to blue, not stay blue the entire time like it did in the beginning when there was indeed zero nitrites present.

I could be completely wrong about all of that, but wanted to mention it.

I'm thinking that the tank wasn't fully cycles when I added my fish.

[Slaphppy7]

Check the expiration date on your liquid test kit

If all is good, and you are performing the tests correctly, then proceed with a fish-in cycle, as described here: http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=36492

It shouldn't take long, but every tank is different when it comes to cycling, many factors involved.

I'm not familiar with that HOB, but many here have had great success with it...it has a sponge, do you rinse it, or just let it soak with the other media during a WC?

Do you leave the media in the filter during a WC, or remove and submerge in a bowl of tank water?

[Slaphppy7]

If you haven't already, do a ph test on your tap (a 24H sample that has been reserved), and a ph test of the tank water, 24H after a WC