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OnTheFly
04-14-2017, 12:30 PM
I currently have one angel fish, She is about 2 1/2" tall and the largest fish in the tank. She is temporarily housed in a 10G tank while her new larger home cycles. There are also a half dozen tetras and a couple guppies in the tank. I haven't seen her eat for about a week. She appears healthy. She responds to food and appears to get in a stalking position, and head towards it. Then the tetras will crash in front of her and steal it every time. Will she eventually get hungry enough and be more aggressive at feeding time? She is going to get skinny if she thinks about it for five seconds before she moves in. The tetras are hogs.

mac
04-14-2017, 12:36 PM
Hey there onthefly,

How many weeks out are you from the green light showing your tanks cycled?

Is their any way you can feed at two sides of the tank at the same time. It may take a day or two. But fish are quite trainable. My discus get out competed for food by the tetras. But with the way my tanks set up the discus is able to get to the food through feeding in two spots. Took a bit to train her to be able to do that.

Another option is to try a basic divider. Like maybe a large fish net placed in the centre with the angle on one side. That way it gets a chance.

OnTheFly
04-14-2017, 01:18 PM
This tank was cycled with fish. I used feeder guppies. To answer your question numbers have only been perfect about 5 days. 0-0 and 20. The angel was in the water a few days with ammonia in the .25 range. Nitrates about the same. My well water is just over .25 so there will always be some ammonia at water change and my PH over 8.0. I use Prime. If that won't work I won't be able to have any angels.

The think I might do the divider so she can eat soon. I can cut a piece of plexi-glass easy enough. Distracting the tetras by feeding at one end isn't working in this small tank. A couple will notice I am trying to feed the angel at the other end and they move in crazy fast. She is definitely attempting to eat but she is just too slow in committing. Once they move in she stops and watches them eat all her food. It only takes them ten seconds and all the food near her is gone.

I do need to deal with this because the big tank is a ways away from ready. Nitrites are very high. All four of my tanks following virtually the identical pattern, with fish, or with liquid ammonia. It all looks about the same on the water tests.

mac
04-14-2017, 01:25 PM
Sorry I should have clarified better.
How far away js the angles new tank from being cycled??

OnTheFly
04-14-2017, 01:39 PM
Sorry I should have clarified better.
How far away js the angles new tank from being cycled??

I am speculating here of course, but based on the other tanks a few more days before I might hit zeros for Am and nitrite for the first time. Am is there now if I stop dosing as it processes ammonia quick. Massive water changes in the 10G were no big deal and I could protect the fish. 60G will be a hassle because I have a water softener and can't get heated water efficiently. (water heater not bypassed) 20% WC with finish in tank no problem. Huge water change is a big deal. I can put a few fish in the angel new home but I don't think she should be the first one in.

mac
04-14-2017, 02:11 PM
Okay this can get a tad tricky. One thing that I do, well I should say do do but not fully.
I have a large bucket that is filled with tap water. Dechlorinated and aging peat in it, with a air stone. This I use to change the water in my black water set ups.
Now in your case could you fill up a large bucket say 20-40g possible and add a air stone and heater? That way have the water you need heater and ready along with your normal supply. That way large water changes are easier when needed!

OnTheFly
04-14-2017, 02:43 PM
Thanks Mac. Someday I need a small on demand water heater that bypasses the softener, but reality is the hard calcium water will destroy it quicker than you would believe. A water heater without a softener lasts only a few years here before it turns into a 500LB rock. No kidding. In the meantime a large barrel would work just fine with a small pump. I'll get something set up soon. Five months of the year I could keep one outside and temp would be nearly perfect. I'll check into that.

mac
04-15-2017, 03:24 AM
That's some hard hard water that is for sure. As much of a pain as it is the water barrel will help a fair amount in this case imo.

OnTheFly
04-15-2017, 07:21 AM
Your barrel system would make maintenance a reasonable task. It's really not optional. My well water travels through 200ft of limestone bedrock. I live near a quarry and can see it is truly solid limestone.

Back on topic, I put the angel in an isolation 5.5G tank. She appears as healthy as she did when I bought her a week ago but I really just don't know. I will fatten her up some before I put her back in community. 60G will be done soon. I did a 100% water change today. 98% anyway, I didn't remove the gravel but I rinsed it some. I'll send a few blackskirts in very soon to secure the beach :)

angelcraze2
04-20-2017, 06:13 PM
With the small amount of ammonia, it could be the reason your angel isn't eating. Also, a regular 10g is way too small IME, even for a smaller juvie. A 5g is way way too small, sorry to break it to you. He is probably not feeling comfortable.

But about feeding the angelfish with tetras in the tank, my angels feed from the surface, and I release smaller pellets below the water's surface allowing them to sink and the tetras eat from mid-strata. Of course, I use deeper tanks though. But as Mac suggested, these cichlids are quite trainable. Good luck.

OnTheFly
04-20-2017, 06:54 PM
Thanks Kat. Unfortunately she died a day or two after I launched this thread. She was only healthy for about a day after I brought her home. I can't be certain exactly why. My 60G appears cycled now so the next one will have a large home.

angelcraze2
04-20-2017, 08:19 PM
Sorry for your loss. I lost one of the first two angelfish I ever bought due to her not eating a few days after I brought her home as well. I don't even know if I knew about the nirtrogen cycle back then. That's a much better plan, introduce an angelfish or a few to your 60g once it is cycled. They are a bit sensitive, especially young ones, not a good fish to cycle with.

mac
04-20-2017, 10:04 PM
Really sorry to hear about your loss. Such a tragedy.

Slaphppy7
04-20-2017, 11:12 PM
Such a tragedy.

And common when you cycle with fish, I have learned

OnTheFly
04-21-2017, 12:25 PM
And common when you cycle with fish, I have learned

It is a cost of cycling with fish for sure. You can't change the water fast enough to keep them completely safe. I have lost a fish in every tank I cycled. Mostly feeder fish as I was less concerned for them. Angel was in a tank that had two more days to go before nitrites went to zero, but that was random luck. It could have been two weeks just as easily. I was 45 minute drive from home and convinced myself it made more sense to save the gas and not make another trip. Impulse purchase for sure.

Slaphppy7
04-21-2017, 01:55 PM
Live and learn....impulse purchases in this hobby (of fish) are a huge mistake, most of the time.

Impulse purchases of new tanks, not so bad, lol

OnTheFly
04-21-2017, 02:01 PM
Live and learn....impulse purchases in this hobby (of fish) are a huge mistake, most of the time.

Impulse purchases of new tanks, not so bad, lol

Exactly. And I could have bought a new Corvette or a tattoo. I bought an Angel for six bucks. It will be OK lol.

angelcraze2
04-21-2017, 05:53 PM
Still, if you're gonna cycle with fish, choose hardy ones that will do better in hard water. Pls be patient with more delicate species. Breaks my heart when a fish dies when it doesn't have to be that way. Nitrites will be a lot easier on hardier fish.

OnTheFly
04-21-2017, 08:36 PM
Still, if you're gonna cycle with fish, choose hardy ones that will do better in hard water. Pls be patient with more delicate species. Breaks my heart when a fish dies when it doesn't have to be that way. Nitrites will be a lot easier on hardier fish.

Sorry. Didn't mean to come off like I don't care because I really do. FWIW I left a family event on Easter driving all over town trying to find a LFS open that sold meds instead of snake oil for ich.

I was not actually aware angels were delicate. I've spent hours everyday doing the WCs on four tanks. Mostly I did use feeder fish with bent spines that should have been euthanized long before I ever bought them. I did lose a couple decent fish and accept I may have caused it. I had no idea how impossible nitrites are to control. As I think I said earlier, you can't change the water fast enough.

angelcraze2
04-22-2017, 01:02 AM
Ok I understand. Angelfish are not that delicate, but they won't do well in a small tank especially while it's cycling. Just better to wait for them until your 60g is cycled.

OnTheFly
04-22-2017, 02:56 AM
Ok I understand. Angelfish are not that delicate, but they won't do well in a small tank especially while it's cycling. Just better to wait for them until your 60g is cycled.

I completely understand a large tank is much better for most species. I am much less clear on why I can buy an angel that is living in a 15 gallon tank with 30 other angels, and put her in a 10G with few tetras and that would somehow make her ill in a day. She was either sick when I bought her (I doubt that) or the tank transition shocked her with exposure to 1ppm nitrites. (much more likely IMO). We'll never know, but I raised a few angels in a 10G long term, long ago when I didn't know any better. That was decades ago and the reason I didn't think it was a big factor to put her in a 10G for a week while the 60G finished cycling.