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Aquawoman
03-23-2017, 04:51 AM
I can use some opinions. I have two koi angels awaiting for their tank to cycle and be ready for them. Almost there. I noticed that my betta living with four tetras has been getting his tail nipped on. Never saw it, just noticed the missing parts of fin. I know large angels will eat tetras. My question is; should I put the tetras with the angels and risk them nipping on the angels? The angels are not big enough to eat them, but it seems like anything with a long fin becomes a target. Sadly, these koi angels are my favorite and most expensive fish. Don't want to cause them stress.

mac
03-23-2017, 06:47 AM
With the Tetras and the Betta how large is the tank?? Tetras do way better in larger schools well over ten. Makes them way more chilled and less insecure, with larger numbers increasing there security.

How large are the Angles??

Aquawoman
03-23-2017, 04:46 PM
The angels are between a quarter and fifty cent piece size.

angelcraze2
03-23-2017, 05:38 PM
How big is your tank that is cycling awaiting your koi angels?

I've never seen tetras bother with angelfish fins, and I've been keeping different tetras and angelfish for a decade. The trick is to make sure the tetras have enough swimming space and keep them in a group of no less than 10 specimens like mac suggested. It also depends on the type of tetra, stay away from serpeas as they are notoriously nippy, I found out first hand. The red phantom tetra is a bit smaller than the serpea, redder and 100% docile IME. The only nippy tetra I've kept was serpea, but I think diamond tetras are boisterous as well. I've heard columbian tetras are nippy, but in a group of 11 full grown columbians in a 90g, they were completely fine even with small, young angels. Unless your looking at very small tetas like embers, I think you should be ok letting the angels grow up with tetras so that they are less likely to view the tetras as food.

Boundava
03-23-2017, 07:47 PM
Had diamonds and they are indeed boisterous, highly active and very energetic. They intimidated the rest of my tank until I re homed them.

Aquawoman
03-23-2017, 10:06 PM
Okay, finally got a zero reading on the nitrates, and everything else is good. So I moved the two koi angels. It is a 25 gallon. They were hanging out in a planted 10 gallon for the last week or so, waiting. I do plan to add to the group of neon tetras, but wondering if it would be a good (and safe) idea to move them into the 25 with the angels. Or, would that be considered tight quarters for them?

Aquawoman
03-23-2017, 10:08 PM
I tend to use my 10 gallons as quarantine.

waylon101
03-24-2017, 03:03 AM
I've never seen aggressive neons. It would be the angels that kill the neons. Even if they do not eat them, they will likely kill them.

angelcraze2
03-24-2017, 03:44 PM
Okay, finally got a zero reading on the nitrates, and everything else is good. So I moved the two koi angels. It is a 25 gallon. They were hanging out in a planted 10 gallon for the last week or so, waiting. I do plan to add to the group of neon tetras, but wondering if it would be a good (and safe) idea to move them into the 25 with the angels. Or, would that be considered tight quarters for them?

Ok, these are my thoughts:
I think that would be tight, if you want to keep it simple with no potential issues. If the angels breed, the tetras well be pushed to the opposite side of the breeding site and kept there. But I've considered adding dither fish to my 3ft breeder tanks, so I can't say for sure it won't work. I really have never seen any angelfish go after a tetra in all my years keeping them together, they will push them away aggressively, but oftentimes don't even make contact. The tetras eventually get it, and stay away from the pair of angels. They would need some plant (artificial or live) to retreat to though, as angelfish are very big on "line of sight". Territories are broken up with tall plants and hardscape that block sight . Also, you'd be at your absolute max for stocking as well, keep in mind, full-grown angelfish need 10g each as a guideline.

I left you a decision to make, I think if you really want to keep tetras with the angels, you could try it. Although a 10g isn't big enough for tetras long term, you'd have to keep your eye out and move the tetras if you see any issues.

I'm sure you understand about cycling, just making sure, was this quote supposed to read:
finally got a zero reading on the nitr-ITES?

Quick reminder in case: You want to test 0 ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitr-ITE, and some nitr-ATES to be considered cycled. Keep the nitrates under 20ppm with water changes and/or live plants.

waylon101
03-24-2017, 04:17 PM
really have never seen any angelfish go after a tetra in all my years keeping them together

I have seen people have success with keeping both of them together but that was not the case for me once. I had a koi angel that would go directly after any smaller fish and would not stop till he got the satisfaction of pecking at their dead body on the sand substrate. Then I had the pair that couldn't have cared less. Its a toss up. Fish really do have personalities despite popular opinion. :)

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 04:52 PM
I got a good reading on everything except the nitrates. I had a zero (or almost zero) reading on the ammonia, and the nitrites, but the nitrates were sky high for the longest time. However, I have a theory for this. This tank was setup and running some time ago. I drained it and moved it; didn't clean out the gravel, and left it sit empty for months before I filled it back up again. I put in a sponge filter from an established tank. Two weeks after setup with the nitrates still reading high, I added some Special Blend. About two weeks later the nitrates read below 10ppm. I even threw in a small bunch of moss and a small clump of java fern. I plan to add more live plants (currently artificial) when I get a better light on it.

Slaphppy7
03-24-2017, 04:55 PM
Off topic, but just noticed you are in Oregon...ever visit The Wet Spot in Portland?

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 04:57 PM
I appreciate all the knowledge and opinions. The beautiful angels are in their new tank (still a work in progress, as there are live plants to be added), however I think I'll just move the neon tetras to the 55 as to increase their numbers. Think I'll just put a couple of cories with the betta.
Ten gallons are kind of boring, as its a bit difficult to do much with them. Aside from temporary quarantine use.

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 05:00 PM
No, but I want to!! Seen videos on youtube.

Slaphppy7
03-24-2017, 05:01 PM
Oh, I'd love to visit there someday, it's where most of my fish have came from...placing another order with them next week, as a matter of fact

angelcraze2
03-24-2017, 05:04 PM
I have seen people have success with keeping both of them together but that was not the case for me once. I had a koi angel that would go directly after any smaller fish and would not stop till he got the satisfaction of pecking at their dead body on the sand substrate. Then I had the pair that couldn't have cared less. Its a toss up. Fish really do have personalities despite popular opinion. :)



Oh yeah! Sorry, I definitely meant to add that! I didn't mean for it to sound like that! Every cichlid had its own personality, you never know! That's crazy waylon! I see why you are not trusting of angelfish. That would traumatize me too!

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 05:08 PM
They are about four hours away from me. I've been getting my fish on my occasional trips to Eugene. I never ordered fish and had them shipped, but thinking about trying that. I just discovered aquabid.com. My husband is a bit worried about it.

Slaphppy7
03-24-2017, 05:13 PM
You guys should set aside a day and take a road trip, bring an empty cooler to carry fish home in, they'd be fine for 4 hours, even more

Boundava
03-24-2017, 05:14 PM
I have used aquabid a couple times, just like Ebay its dependent on the seller-but I never had problems with it. I just find my stuff easier with TWS, or Rachael O' Leary, or Aquatic Arts or Han's aquatics, or Tannin Aquatics or other online sites; dependent on the fish/invert/plant/driftwood etc. I am looking for.

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 05:23 PM
You guys should set aside a day and take a road trip, bring an empty cooler to carry fish home in, they'd be fine for 4 hours, even more

So far I've done two hours (eugene). Never lost one from that. But, that fish store has really good fish. I don't have a fish retailer near me. Someone tried once, but the person they left in charge of their store abandoned it with all the animals after they took what they wanted from it. It was a mess. So wanting to visit the Wet Spot.

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 05:23 PM
I have used aquabid a couple times, just like Ebay its dependent on the seller-but I never had problems with it. I just find my stuff easier with TWS, or Rachael O' Leary, or Aquatic Arts or Han's aquatics, or Tannin Aquatics or other online sites; dependent on the fish/invert/plant/driftwood etc. I am looking for.

I do want to try aquabid some time.

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 05:27 PM
So far I've done two hours (eugene). Never lost one from that. But, that fish store has really good fish. I don't have a fish retailer near me. Someone tried once, but the person they left in charge of their store abandoned it with all the animals after they took what they wanted from it. It was a mess. So wanting to visit the Wet Spot.

I'd probably be the only one enjoying themselves. The kids would lose interest fast, and my husband would merely tolerate it.

angelcraze2
03-24-2017, 05:28 PM
I got a good reading on everything except the nitrates. I had a zero (or almost zero) reading on the ammonia, and the nitrites, but the nitrates were sky high for the longest time. However, I have a theory for this. This tank was setup and running some time ago. I drained it and moved it; didn't clean out the gravel, and left it sit empty for months before I filled it back up again. I put in a sponge filter from an established tank. Two weeks after setup with the nitrates still reading high, I added some Special Blend. About two weeks later the nitrates read below 10ppm. I even threw in a small bunch of moss and a small clump of java fern. I plan to add more live plants (currently artificial) when I get a better light on it.

Ok tx for the info. I'm not familiar with Special blend, but if your ammonia and nitrite are reading at 0ppm and you have high nitrates, you should reduce them with water changes. If you change out 50%, your nitrates should be cut in half too until further ammonia (caused by fish poop, uneaten food) processes. Angelfish absolutely love fresh water and large WCs. I find it to be an easy way to make sure they are happy, the algae stays away and parameters are stable with regular maintenance, just to let you know :)

Have you by chance tested your tap water for nitrates?

angelcraze2
03-24-2017, 05:30 PM
I'd probably be the only one enjoying themselves. The kids would lose interest fast, and my husband would merely tolerate it.

Awww :( I don't have any kids, but I'm in the sane stitch where I'm the only one who enjoys my tanks and fish. At least you and I have the AC! We care!

Boundava
03-24-2017, 06:28 PM
Well this is a good chance to pull the vette out and head on a road trip for one, lol. Well one for the trip there, road trip for many on the way back, hopefully!

waylon101
03-24-2017, 06:46 PM
Oh yeah! Sorry, I definitely meant to add that! I didn't mean for it to sound like that! Every cichlid had its own personality, you never know! That's crazy waylon! I see why you are not trusting of angelfish. That would traumatize me too!

I knew what you meant Angelcraze!:19: aka the angel master :hmm3grin2orange:

Aquawoman
03-24-2017, 10:10 PM
Well this is a good chance to pull the vette out and head on a road trip for one, lol. Well one for the trip there, road trip for many on the way back, hopefully!

Now, there's a temptation. :cloud9: Have to stretch her legs. Been garaged all winter.

steeler58
03-25-2017, 12:58 AM
The wet spot is the way to go and even if you can't get there I bet the freight would be nothing as close as you live.

Back to keeping Angels and neons; the way I did it and it worked, is to introduce bigger neons first and after a month add small to mid size angels and let them grow out together in a well planted tank. This has worked for several people I know and I first saw it done in National geographic back in the 70's. It's almost like the Angels just get used to the neons always being there as they grow big enough to actually eat them.