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Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 01:11 AM
Well, so I added all the fish I wanted to the tank and the stock is complete. One of my latest additions were a group of 10 corydoras Habrosus. When they arrived, I noted some of them being more whitish than the others. They have been in my aquarium for 4 days. The first night I lost one of the whitish ones, one that was acting a bit weird so I didn't pay attention to it. Now last night I lost another one and I suspect it was a whitish one cuz when I found it it was already white from being dead. Now, the problem is that I don't know if their colors have been fading while they have been with me or all of them came like that when I bought them. I did notice some being whiter than others and for sure I know at least one was VERY white, for the others I dont remember. I did recorded a video where u can clearly see it. The video is in Spanish cuz was recorded for some other friends but u can clearly see the differences. The other clear thing of the whitish ones is that are WAY lazier than the other ones, the whiter the lazier and mainly spend their time laying on the sand, they do eat and move but mainly not, the full color ones act like dogs moving everywhere.

The questions I want to clarify are:

Is this my fault and can I do something about it?
Are they turning white or they just came like that (I know at least some did)?
Should I do something?
Can I expect them to die?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwcR3FmPFDBPVUVzUmRyMjBqdFk

I'm close to freaking out btw

EDIT: All the other fish are absolutely normal, no sign of nothing and the "normal" corys act like dogs running everywhere and playing like dogs usually do.

Slaphppy7
12-14-2016, 01:37 AM
These corys were bought at the same time, from the same source?

Locally bought, or shipped?

Rocksor
12-14-2016, 01:42 AM
where they all in the same bag?

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 01:51 AM
All the same and same store as all my fish altho these were leftovers, there were almost none and mixed with other left overs

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 01:52 AM
Answering specifically the questions:
Same bag
Locally
Same day
4 days ago

Rocksor
12-14-2016, 02:10 AM
Answering specifically the questions:
Same bag
Locally
Same day
4 days ago

how far was your trip from the LFS? Cories have known to release a venom as a defense mechanism when stressed, with some species being more potent than others. So its possible they poisoned themselves while in the bag, and some recovered while other didn't. In the wild, the released poison would stay in the area that it was in and the cory could swim away from the poisoned area. In a bag from the LFS, they even have less water than your tank and are trapped with the poison.

did the lfs put O2 in the bag?

Slaphppy7
12-14-2016, 02:24 AM
Were you able to observe the fish at the LFS before they were netted?

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 02:34 AM
Were you able to observe the fish at the LFS before they were netted?

Although I could I didn't pay thaaaaat much attention, I only saw they were kinda leftovers.

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 02:37 AM
how far was your trip from the LFS? Cories have known to release a venom as a defense mechanism when stressed, with some species being more potent than others. So its possible they poisoned themselves while in the bag, and some recovered while other didn't. In the wild, the released poison would stay in the area that it was in and the cory could swim away from the poisoned area. In a bag from the LFS, they even have less water than your tank and are trapped with the poison.

did the lfs put O2 in the bag?

Lol no that never happens in Chile, say Thnks we get them in bags. Do u think it is contagious? Do u think this can spread? Do u think I can save them?

Rocksor
12-14-2016, 02:45 AM
Lol no that never happens in Chile, say Thnks we get them in bags. Do u think it is contagious? Do u think this can spread? Do u think I can save them?

if it was poison, it was in their original bag from the lfs. No worries in your tank.

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 02:49 AM
Is there anything u would do other than observe?

Rocksor
12-14-2016, 02:54 AM
Is there anything u would do other than observe?

if you can get methylene blue in chile, I would do a 30 minute bath in a separate container, 1ml of liquid per gallon. In powder form, you will need to make up a 1% solution in distilled water (typically use 1g dissolved in 100ml of water).

It helps bring more oxygen to the blood cells, and helps with healing. It's been used to heal fish from ammonia, nitrite, or cyanide poisoning.

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html


Effective as an antidote for other forms of poisoning including damage to the liver and kidneys caused from poisoning (assuming damage is not past the point normal regeneration) due to being reduced by components of the electron transport chain (a chemical reaction between an electron donor and an electron acceptor to the transfer of H+ ions across a membrane, via a set of mediating biochemical Redox reactions).

Slaphppy7
12-14-2016, 02:54 AM
Is there anything u would do other than observe?

I wouldn't, IMO it appears you got a mixed bag of healthy and unhealthy fish

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 02:57 AM
if you can get methylene blue in chile, I would do a 30 minute bath in a separate container, 1ml per gallon. It helps bring more oxygen to the blood cells, and helps with healing. It's been used to heal fish from ammonia, nitrite, or cyanide poisoning.

I do have, I use it to stain cells in my mini lab in my room

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 02:58 AM
I wouldn't, IMO it appears you got a mixed bag of healthy and unhealthy fish

Ok, will observe since just taking the fish out and putting it in another container with water with other parameters for the methylene blue bath I think is going to be way worst than letting it be since it has been already 4 days. Will see if the healthy corys get affected. After 1 week I will restock what died

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 03:15 AM
Well.... I just went to take another look at the 3 that arent doing that well and I dont even think they make it through this night. I will be left with 5 or even 4 in the worst of the cases but I wont restock until I see that everything has ended. In Chile its not very common to find Habrosus, its easier to find pygmaseus, would it be a problem if I toss in 6 pygmaseus to replace the habrosus in case I cant find? I don't think its good for 4 corys to be left alone

Rocksor
12-14-2016, 03:21 AM
Ok, will observe since just taking the fish out and putting it in another container with water with other parameters for the methylene blue bath I think is going to be way worst than letting it be since it has been already 4 days. Will see if the healthy corys get affected. After 1 week I will restock what died

for baths you can take some water out of the tank, so no worries about different water parameters.

having taken fish out and put them in baths, I find it better to treat the ailment and reduce the sick time rather than prolong the stress of the sickness.

If the fish hasn't gotten any better within 3 days (the time for injuries to show sign of healing), it's time to do something other than keep the water clean.


Well.... I just went to take another look at the 3 that arent doing that well and I dont even think they make it through this night. I will be left with 5 or even 4 in the worst of the cases but I wont restock until I see that everything has ended. In Chile its not very common to find Habrosus, its easier to find pygmaseus, would it be a problem if I toss in 6 pygmaseus to replace the habrosus in case I cant find? I don't think its good for 4 corys to be left alone

you can mix different species

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 03:24 AM
Oh nice nice nice

madagascariensis
12-14-2016, 03:34 AM
Both the pale color and the flagging dorsal fin (a healthy, content cory will have an erect dorsal) suggest that the white fish are ill. What the reason is seems more mysterious though.
I personally wouldn't remove the sick cories from the tank for a treatment. The significant stress from being chased and caught might just do them in.

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 03:40 AM
K, put the one that looks the worst in the bath. I have done plenty of difficult things in my life. Netting a supposedly sick cory which can swim away very fast in a semi densely planted aquarium is easy among the most difficult tasks I have ever seen. (yes, u guessed, I didnt put the others cuz I simply couldnt catch them)

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 07:16 PM
Update:

The 8 corys are alive and made it through the night, I really thought one wasn't going to make it. I'm tempted to restock the 2 that died but wont until everything stabilizes. The lights turn on in around 3 hours, by then we will see how active or non active they are but with this low light setting they seem to be the same as yesterday

SueD
12-14-2016, 07:41 PM
I have seem some that are a little lighter than others when young, but these do look like weaker fish as the lines along the side are almost faded to nothing. I don't think your others should be affected. If they were "leftovers" as you say, there's no way of really knowing how old they are either.

I hope the rest of the group does well for you. I really love this fish.

Boundava
12-14-2016, 07:54 PM
You got some great advice and I also hope the little guys go on doing well and improving for you.

Silbar
12-14-2016, 08:57 PM
I might have missed it but I do not see if you listed what the water parameters are (pH, ammonia/ nitrites/ nitrates). I have to add that corys like pristine water and can be sensitive to their environment. Your tank looks like it needs some cleaning, sorry. Clean tank and water might help.

Skirmitch
12-14-2016, 11:20 PM
0 amonia, 0 nitrites, 10 nitrates. What u saw as dirty is algae in the glass mainly in the lower parts and some poop in the sand which will be always like that days after the water change. PH of 6.5 harndess of 120ppm. Water is in fact pristine (Otos I think would be affected first with water parameters or maybe the neons and both species are better than ever in my aquarium). My only issue is a bit of algae, nothing else (in terms of clean water)

Edit: What I did to lower nitrates so much was just to add 3 pothos and that + the plants take care of it pretty much till my next water change. The algae issue is more light related.

2nd Edit: I dont know if I mentioned it or not, maybe I missed it but only some of the corys have the issue, 3 or 4 out of 8 and the rest are:

5 Otos
2 guppys
14 neons
6 harlequin rasborras
5 Sakura shrimp

And all 100% relaxed and active, no neon's schooling 85% of the time, Rasborras playing, Otos stupidly fat cuz of the algae I guess and swimming everywhere at least 30% of the time or maybe 20%.

Skirmitch
12-15-2016, 12:06 AM
Btw, now that u talk about water params, there is actually one that is off my calculations and I didn't mention. We have been for the past 3 days in a heatwave with temperatures between 100 and 104 degrees. The aquarium has been constantly between 79 and 83 degrees which is absolutely not normal for me although it's everything the corys have ever seen here (have been with me for around 5 days). I don't know if this changes the diagnosis

Silbar
12-15-2016, 12:19 AM
I think the temp is a bit high. It is better if it is between 68-78.8 according to Seriously Fish website.
http://seriouslyfish.com/species/Corydoras-habrosus

Thanks for the clarification regarding water/algae, etc.

Skirmitch
12-15-2016, 12:20 AM
I think the temp is a bit high. It is better if it is between 68-78.8 according to Seriously Fish website.
http://seriouslyfish.com/species/Corydoras-habrosus

Thanks for the clarification regarding water/algae, etc.

I have gel packs I use for my knee when I had an accident, those are 100% leak proof. Would u recommend me getting them inside the tank?

EDIT: Dont worry about leakings or it being poisonous or whatever, I take responsibility for that, I'm asking more if u would recommend putting an element at 0 degrees celcuis inside the aquarium to lower the temp

Silbar
12-15-2016, 12:27 AM
I'm not sure that would be a good idea. It would be better if you can fill a few empty 16 ounce water or coke bottles with water and freeze them. Then let a few float in the tank to see if that helps. Monitor the temp while you are doing this. In the Summer my cold tap water runs 89-90 degrees and I float a few frozen water bottles in the tank when I am adding the water at water changes. I always keep a few bottles in my freezer just for that reason. In my 75G I had to freeze a 2 liter bottle because the small ones were melting to fast. I forget the size of your tank so the amount will vary according to tank size.

Skirmitch
12-15-2016, 01:47 AM
I'm not sure that would be a good idea. It would be better if you can fill a few empty 16 ounce water or coke bottles with water and freeze them. Then let a few float in the tank to see if that helps. Monitor the temp while you are doing this. In the Summer my cold tap water runs 89-90 degrees and I float a few frozen water bottles in the tank when I am adding the water at water changes. I always keep a few bottles in my freezer just for that reason. In my 75G I had to freeze a 2 liter bottle because the small ones were melting to fast. I forget the size of your tank so the amount will vary according to tank size.

ROFL my fish loved it, never thought they would actually like it, they approach it as much as they can then they run, and they have been doing that all the time

Silbar
12-15-2016, 02:41 AM
Don't forget to check the temp frequently. You don't want the water temp to drop too fast. If you need to, remove the bottles for a few minutes at a time and be sure the cooler water is mixing with the warmer water. Slow and steady.

Skirmitch
12-15-2016, 02:51 AM
Do u recommend doing this every day?

Silbar
12-15-2016, 03:11 AM
Whatever it takes to keep your water temp from going above 80 degrees max while you are experiencing the heat wave. You don't want the temps to fluctuate up and down if possible. I hope that I am making sense.

Skirmitch
12-15-2016, 07:55 PM
Update:


Everybody still alive

Boundava
12-15-2016, 08:10 PM
Great news.

angelcraze2
12-15-2016, 09:08 PM
Amazing! I hope with good water chemistry, you are able to save these poor leftover cories. It's a good sign they are still alive! Just keep the lighting lower, try to keep the temp lower during the heatwave and try not to stress them. That's all you can do. Remember these cories were whitish from the beginning, they might just come around with your hard work :)

Silbar
12-15-2016, 09:53 PM
Great news! Keep up the good work. :22:

Skirmitch
12-16-2016, 11:52 PM
Everybody alive today again and I noted 2 changes, I don't want to jinx it nor cackle before the eggs are in the basket but here are the facts:

1st, they are starting to eat like they used. For the past 2 days the algae wafer as still there at the next morning (had to vacuum it) and today the wafer didnt even last the day so I put another one (I have to let it there cuz otos feed on it sometimes and also shrimps).
2nd, found them hanging out in a place different than the sand where they have been spending the whole day for the past 2-3 days (the whitish ones).

Silbar
12-17-2016, 12:49 AM
I'm so glad things are going in the right direction.

Boundava
12-17-2016, 01:53 AM
Great news, glad they are more active and their appetites have returned :thumbsup:

Skirmitch
12-17-2016, 02:23 AM
I would love to have a vet specialized in tropical fish, damn, there are literally none in Chile. I would have paid, no doubt, for a vet to visit here and check everything, even if the bill would have been 100

DoubleDutch
12-17-2016, 08:27 PM
What exact are you feeding?
Not alone algaewafer are you?

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Skirmitch
12-17-2016, 09:40 PM
What exact are you feeding?
Not alone algaewafer are you?

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G925F met Tapatalk

Algae wafers + a bit of pellets + the flakes that make it to the sand but the main dish is algae wafers (which contain fish meat, not only algae btw)

The wafers I use are: Prodac Algae Wafers http://www.prodacinternational.it/en-us/mangimi-gb-asia/mangimi-gb/algae-wafers.html and the pellets are Sera Vipagran.

Skirmitch
12-17-2016, 11:19 PM
Update,

Everybody alive and I do see more activity, altho still slow and null compared to the healthy ones, some degree of activity is observed. There's only one that has me really worried, is one of the most white ones and refuses to eat (or to even move) and is getting too thin, I think that one might not make it.

angelcraze2
12-17-2016, 11:56 PM
Are they getting enough oxygen? Doesn't sound good for the thin one :( I'm sorry. At least it doesn't look to be contagious, and more weak specimens. It's all you can do, is give them optimal conditions and parameters to recover and that's what you've done. Be proud for that!

angelcraze2
12-17-2016, 11:57 PM
Maybe a little bit of water movement on the bottom?

Like not to stir crap up or anything.....

To counter your co2 thing :axechase:
Would you consider adding an airstone? Surface agitation is the best. You still add a bit of co2 with it ;) it's atmospheric.

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 02:58 AM
"Sadly" there's a lot of current in the bottom, the filter I use is a Tom's Rapids mini Canister which delivers a considerable current, goes through the whole aquarium from right to left, bounces in the wall to the bottom and in the bottom it bounces back to the right. The current to the right through the bottom reaches approx the middle of the aquarium so the lower right part of the aquarium is the most still one.

DoubleDutch
12-18-2016, 08:27 AM
Algae wafers + a bit of pellets + the flakes that make it to the sand but the main dish is algae wafers (which contain fish meat, not only algae btw)

The wafers I use are: Prodac Algae Wafers http://www.prodacinternational.it/en-us/mangimi-gb-asia/mangimi-gb/algae-wafers.html and the pellets are Sera Vipagran.
This could be part of the problem. Corys are 99% carnivorious. Nutritional value of algaewafers for Corys is close to 0 !
Same with several kind of flakes.

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Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 05:11 PM
What do you recommend? I started using the wafers for my Otos but the Corys started congregating on them, I used to give them only the pellets.

Update: Everybody alive and moving more, still noot even close to healthy but at least they move.

Edit Update: ONE IS RECOVERING THE COLOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slaphppy7
12-18-2016, 05:15 PM
My corys like these alot

https://www.amazon.com/Hikari-Sinking-Carnivore-Pellets-2-61-Ounce/dp/B007QH89AI/ref=sr_1_1/154-8037697-2187717?ie=UTF8&qid=1482081298&sr=8-1&keywords=hikari+carnivore+pellets

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 05:19 PM
But I already give them pellets (I can change for ur brand no problem on that) but what do I do with the wafers, I need them for my Otos to supplement vitamins and stuff but my corries keep on eating them

Slaphppy7
12-18-2016, 05:40 PM
Mix them up, feed some one day, others on different days

These guys offer good quality foods, too, check the ingredients

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-food-feeders/food-feeders.html

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 05:51 PM
perfect I will do 2 days pellet, 1 day wafer. There are still some algae in the tank, the otos should be fine for a while

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 05:57 PM
Can you recommend me food for my tank from this guy Kenfish??? I REALLY liked their variety. My tank rn has:

13 neons
6 Rasborra Harlequin
2 CRS
5 Sakura
2 gupppy
8 cory Habrosus
5 Otos


If you could recomend me what foods to buy and how to feed them I would be VERY grateful, u dont know how much. Remember I have to pay postage to Chile tho :P

Slaphppy7
12-18-2016, 06:04 PM
Try the premium tropical flakes and the earthworm sticks

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 06:09 PM
One of those sink I hope, no?

Slaphppy7
12-18-2016, 06:15 PM
The EW sticks will sink.

Skirmitch
12-18-2016, 09:51 PM
Second update of today:

While one is recovering the colors and the energy, I lost another one today. It wasn't even one of the most white and inactive ones but deadly sick anyways. At this rate, I think I will be left with round 4 or 5 which are already feeling the impact of not having friends to play with, they mainly try to play by themselves but then come back and lay a bit with the sick ones. I will have to restock for sure and in Chile its kind of difficult to find Habrosus so I'm forced to buy from the same store but paying much more attention this time tho. They have a huge tank with Cory pygmaseus as well which looks way more healthy, would they get along with the 4 habrosus I have left or I would have to restock habrosus yes or yes? Right now my number 1 concern is that whatever number of habrosus that survive have a good life so the answer needs to be oriented towards that, not towards how cute or not the tank will look.

Slaphppy7
12-18-2016, 11:06 PM
All 3 of what I consider "pygmy" corys (pymaeus, habrosus, and hastatus) will get along very well with one another, from my experience.

Skirmitch
12-21-2016, 01:12 AM
Update:

The 7 are alive but I see 0 improvement in the worst ones, if this continues they are going to die. I don't know which one is the one that recovered, I don't know if it's the one that had the methylene blue bath or not so I just took them all (the ones that are bad) and gave them a bath of methylene blue as well. Today it was water change day anyways so shouldn't have been MUCH more stress for the rest of the fish and well, for the corys, I think that if I hadn't done it they would have died of hunger anyways since they barely move (cuz they lack motivation not cuz they cant; believe me they can). Lets see what happens.

Skirmitch
12-21-2016, 06:26 PM
Update,

Today everybody woke up. If I'm correct, they should start feeling better by the end of the day or tomorrow morning. I will keep a close eye to see if they start moving at least a bit more but at least they survives the stress of being siphoned out (was the only way to do it fast with no that much stress)

Boundava
12-21-2016, 07:36 PM
I also hope that they start feeling better and am glad they survivied the stress.

Skirmitch
12-25-2016, 05:50 PM
And so the drama comes to an end.
The result: only 3 corys survived, one that never got sick and 2 that were sick and recovered, one of them is one of the VERY white and skinny white ones that I thought wouldn't survive. The recovery of the 2 sick ones was quite amazing tho, one day they were in the bottom barely moving and the next day they were moving to look for some food, next day some color appeared and 5 days after full coloration back and full movement. I treated the ones who were saved with erythromycin and methylene blue. As this seems to have worked (should have done it way before), I treated the whole tank with erythromycin (not too much to not affect the nitrobacter, at least not badly) because I just couldn't find 2 of the corpses. One of the Corys started its recovery yesterday and so its still weak (altho its eating and recovering color) so I will keep with the slow, non-stressful treatments, foods and erythromycin will come back soon (want her to be stronger so if something happens with the nitrobacter she can resist the ammonia.
And so, from 9 corys I ended up with 3, horrible........ With my 0 knowledge and just looking at the symptoms, I would say this was Tuberculosis but even tho I have a Microscope, and a mini lab, without a microtome (which oc I don't have) I cant corroborate this (its easy to diagnose tuberculosis if I can take a look at muscle tissue). I take this thread as ended and will start restocking in no less than a week or two to be sure the tank is 100% clean.

Slaphppy7
12-25-2016, 06:02 PM
Sorry for all of the losses.