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View Full Version : Stunted or a runt?



angelcraze2
03-04-2016, 10:43 PM
Stunting is enviromentally caused by poor water conditions during development.

A runt is the result of poor genetics.

How can one discern the difference?

Is it by accesssing a certain case, for example, if some poor development was observed, but it only in few specimen spawn from one pair, while no stunting was observed from other specimen spawn from other parents or lines, and all these fish were grown out together in the same well-mainained tank...Would one assume the smaller specimens are runts?

Is there another way to tell?

discuspaul
03-05-2016, 01:59 AM
Stunting is enviromentally caused by poor water conditions during development.

A runt is the result of poor genetics.

How can one discern the difference?

Is it by accesssing a certain case, for example, if some poor development was observed, but it only in few specimen spawn from one pair, while no stunting was observed from other specimen spawn from other parents or lines, and all these fish were grown out together in the same well-mainained tank...Would one assume the smaller specimens are runts?

Is there another way to tell?

Yes, your example could very well be the case.

I will say though, that discus runts are very few & far between, while stunted discus are commonplace.

I have had discus spawn many times, and have grown out quite a few broods, but I honestly cannot recall having seen/known a runt to be among the lot, and I understand that many other breeders have not had this experience either.

The few that I have read/heard about did not seemingly ever grow beyond the approx. 2" size, and never got much if any bigger, no matter how pristine their tank conditions were maintained.

After experiencing this over a several month period, the very few breeders that I did read as having experienced this, culled them.

In the case of stunting, when one becomes experienced with the tell-tale signs of stunting, one can easily ascertain that stunting has indeed occurred, given the size, coloration, age, bars, and eye to body ratio of the fish, particularly if it's known that the fish(es) has, or have, been raised/grown out, in less than ideal conditions (prime example: in a planted tank).

Stunted fish, as a very broad general rule, are usually spotted when they have reached the approx. 2.5"-3" size, while others raised alongside them from the same batch, have continued their growth to 4" - 5", or more.

Many stunted fish can be successfully grown out to a larger size than 2.5"- 3" if placed/maintained in more ideal water quality conditions, with larger, more frequent wcs than they were previously subjected to (and thereby became stunted).

Is having any other, or more specific way to tell of any real importance or value ?

angelcraze2
03-05-2016, 05:39 AM
Is having any other, or more specific way to tell of any real importance or value ?

Well, it was to me, but anyway.

angelcraze2
03-07-2016, 03:10 AM
I posted this thread in angelfish, and I'm talking about breeding mutilple pairs, multiple stains, some phenotypes grow slower, like pb angels, but I'm familiar with the correct eye to body ratio as well. I would think a runt or a stunted fish would both express this off-balance. Since the fish I have in question have not been raised in substrate tanks, not overcrowded and only a few specimens from a certain brood appear smaller, I'm going to assume they are runts and not stunted from poor parental genetics. I've taken steps to mismatch up my pairs, bought new stock, in order for this outcome not to happen again. I'm fully aware of having to cull. Don't like it, but I'm familiar with it.

Is there anyone familiar with angelfish deformities that can help me?

angelcraze2
03-07-2016, 04:31 AM
That's assuming all fish are at risk of being in contact with the pathogen that causes columnaris as an example, by the bacteria that collects in gravel substrates. I guess all of us planted tank people are putting our fish at risk. I don't see how not? Discus people are saying planted tanks are detrimental to fish! There are many other 'hard to keep' fish, even bottom strata ones that do great in planted tanks. Lol!