Still confused about cycling

[Litespeed]

We just started our aquarium 4 days ago. The second day after we put in 3 zebra danios in our 84 gallon aquarium, I tested the ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia was at zero and nitrite was a 1.0. Today, we added two more danios. When I tested this afternoon, the ammonia was still at zero but the nitrite has gone up to 2.0. If the nitrite keeps going up, at what point do I do a water change? I thought the water had to show some ammonia in order for the nitrite to go up --- I'm totally confused.

[msjinkzd]

You need to do water changes anytime either ammonia or nitrite are registering, both of these are toxic to your fish. If you were doing a fishless cycle it would be different, but a fishy cycle requires lots and lots of water changes.

[Litespeed]

By doing water changes during the cycle period, aren't you setting back the time it would take the tank to complete the cycle?
If I do nothing but monitor the increase in the levels of ammonia and nitrite and wait for them to fall to zero without doing any water changes, wouldn't that make the cycle go quicker? After the numbers have fallen to zero, then would I start checking the Nitrate levels to make sure the good bacteria has started?

[Lady Hobbs]

I can understand your confusion since ammonia comes first. I also fail to understand this. Ammonia=nitrites=nitrates in all cycling. The only way I could grasp this is if your tap water already had nitrites.

Or.........if you started with seeded gravel from another tank or a used filter pad from an established tank but you started with all new stuff, correct?

Did you add any bacteria boosters or ammonia reducers? Also, when you test for ammonia, let the beaker set for 5 minutes or so. It takes a while for the color to change.

Four days is hardly enough for ammonia to even register. You have a lot of water there and only a few danio's. It could take a week or more to show ammonia readings. I cycled my 55 gallon with many fish and only had ammonia readings to .25.

The only thing I can venture a guess at is possibly the ammonia is very, very low and it just isn't showing up on your tester. Are you using the Master Test Kit with liquid tester or the paper strips?

Bacteria is on your filter media and gravel. Not in the water. You can safety change the water as much as you like but do not vacuum the gravel, disturb it or change the filter pad.

Turn your heat to about 84-86 and aerate the tank.

Check your tap water for nitrites. If it's in your tap, doing water changes at this point will do no good as you'll just be adding more.

[Litespeed]

We are using a Master Test Kit liquid tester and I am making sure I following instructions carefully. We are aerating the tank and have not added any bacteria boosters or ammonia reducers, seeded gravel or used filter.

I have tested our tank again and the ammonia level shows a slight rise, between 0 and 2.5 and nitrite as 2.0. How high can we let the ammonia get before we do a water change (without disturbing the gravel)?

I just tested our tap water and it does contain small amounts of nitrite of .50, I know our water is chlorinated.

[SoCalxPiranhaxKing]

But i wouldn’t worry about it because the ammonia eating bacteria are still reproducing that’s why your nitrite levels are still rising. Now what you want to do is test your water for Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate every day. Try to keep your nitrite levels between .50ppm and .25ppm by doing daily water changes or as needed. Once your nitrate levels start to rise you should see your nitrite levels stop rising or start to drop. Once that happens start limiting your water changes. At this point Two or Three times a week should be fine, just make sure your Ammonia levels stay close to 0ppm and nitrate levels stay below .50ppm don’t worry about your nitrate at this point, it is mildly toxic but its only dangerous at much higher levels. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels drop to 0ppm cut your water changes back to once a week. If at the end of that week your ammonia and nitrite levels are still at 0ppm that means Your Good To Go!!!thumbs2: . Just do a light gravel vac once and then if needed a 25% water change every other day until your nitrite levels drop to 0ppm and that’s it your dun:19: At this point your Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels should all be at 0ppm...Now just roll up a fat one:c7: kick back and injoy.thumbs2: HeHe

[SoCalxPiranhaxKing]

2.0ppm+ of Ammonia and nitrite is way too much you want to keep the ammonia below 1.0ppm you can probably get away with 2.0ppm of nitrite If there weren’t fish in the tank it wouldn’t madder. I would do a 40% water change but don’t use a python or hose to refill your tank. It’s too risky to add that much untreated tap water directly to your tank right now. Instead use a few 5gal buckets so you can treat the tap water before you add it to your tank. If you still cant get levels below 1.0ppm I would start using active carbon to help keep things under control until your tanks bio-load can take up the slack........you can also use water conditioners like Prime, Amquil and Ammo-Lock to help control things. Since ammonia is the biggest danger to your fish right now i would use Amquil. I like Amquil because you can remove as much or as little ammonia as needed. I think its 5ml will remove 1.0ppm of ammonia for every ten gallons. So in your case 40ml or so of amquil will drop the ammonia level in your tank to around 1 - 1.5 ppm. Some people say that it can affect the tanks cycle but in over 16years I’ve never had a problem just fallow the instructions and don’t over do it. Make sure you don’t remove all the ammonia leave about .50ppm but no more than 1.0ppm....and don’t use to many things at once just pick 1 and stick with it.. Water changes are always ok so if you can, try to fix it with just water changes.

[Lady Hobbs]

"I have tested our tank again and the ammonia level shows a slight rise, between 0 and 2.5"

I believe you must have meant 0 to .25? .25 is the next reading up from 0. 2.5 ammonia is very high and I doubt you'd have no fish living.

I wouldn't be worried at this time. As mentioned before, you have a lot of water volume and just a few tiny danio's. It would take them some time to put out enough ammonia to began a cycle or show on your tester.

Small tanks get very toxic due to smaller amounts of water but large tanks have a much higher concentration of water to the toxins so the tests don't go off the charts as in the small tanks.

I generally only test for ammonia the first week and then start testing for ammonia and nitrites. It will take about 2-2 1/2 weeks to reach the nitrate stage and that's when I usually start testing for all 3. That is, if you have a small load of fish.

If you want to speed things along, try a bacteria booster or add some feeder goldfish.

This is why the fishless cycle is such a blessing. You can fully cycle a tank in about 12 days and add all your fish at once.

Testing for everything right now is just wasting your time and your testing materials. Just stick with the ammonia readings for now.

[Litespeed]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I did mean to say .25 on the ammonia. I bought a couple of aquarim books, Freshwaterr Aquariums for Dummies (that should fit me to a tee) and The Simple guide to Freshwater Aquariums by David Boruchowitz.

[jeffs99dime]

can you post some pics of your tank? i'd like to see it

[Fishguy2727]

If the fish are not showing signs of stress (clamped fins, lethargy, gasping, etc.) then they are not stressed and I leave things be. These are tough little things that can handle quite a bit, especially zebra danios. In my experience there is no need to get yourself in a knot with a million water changes because there is some ammonia or nitrites. I let the fish tell me when it is too much.

Test ammonia and nitrite concentrations daily if you want, this will help you track your progress, but watch the fish and let them tell you when they need a water change.

Do not add ammonia and nitrite removing chemicals like ammonia removing media or things like Amquel. The whole point of cycling is to get the bacteria levels up enough to handle the bioload of the tank. If you keep removing their food (ammonia and nitrites) then they can't get a stable population going.

In such large tanks like this sometimes there is no major cycle. With so few fish in such a large volume of water the concentrations of ammonia and nitrite stay so low for so long that sometimes there will not be an actual spike.

I have seen tanks cycle with angels and the tests said I should have been doing a lot of water changes, but the fish showed that they were fine. I was skeptical but let things be and kept a good eye on the fish. Sure enough none had any problems or ever showed signs of stress and the water change free cycle went on without a hitch. This won't always happen and I am not suggesting it, but it just shows that things are not always as bad as they may seem.