Found CAE dead, bloated. Starved, constipated, or dropsy?

[Leeward]

I left home on Friday afternoon, and returned on Sunday morning to find my CAE dead, stiff and bloated at the bottom of my tank. I figured one day without food wouldn't do any harm if some aquarists purposely don't feed their fish one day per week (I normally feed mine every morning). I don't know if that's what killed it or if that's just a coincidence, and I don't want this to happen again, hence this post.

I did notice before leaving that it had gotten rather large, but I thought it was just getting fat from being such a glutton (it used to chase the other fish away from bits of food). I also noticed a few days ago that it started being rather shy and reclusive. I didn't think much of it since I had put it in "timeout" to give my rams some peace for a few hours, and seemed to have become shy as a result.

I did some googling and found that bloating can be a sign of constipation, or a symptom of dropsy. Opinions?

Could it have starved in one day?
Is constipation really a possible cause of death?
If it is dropsy, how do I prevent it happening to my other fish?

[Rocksor]

one day without feeding is not enough time for a healthy fish to starve to death.

[Leeward]

That's what I thought as well. But I'm still ambivalent about whether it was constipated or sick. Is there any way to tell the difference after death? In retrospect, it was "fat" and behaving funny for about a week, so I'm leaning towards sick. I should have reacted, but at least now I know better.

[Slaphppy7]

Sorry for your loss.

[RiversGirl]

I am also sorry for your loss.

Hopefully you can determine the cause, to ease your mind about this happening again. Towards that effort -- and if you wish it -- several members here are very willing to offer an experienced take on possible preventions for the future.


I did notice before leaving that it had gotten rather large, but I thought it was just getting fat from being such a glutton (it used to chase the other fish away from bits of food). I also noticed a few days ago that it started being rather shy and reclusive. I didn't think much of it since I had put it in "timeout" to give my rams some peace for a few hours, and seemed to have become shy as a result.


As far as my own ability to help you, I would ask you more about the above in an effort to outline what happened for other members who have experience in keeping CAE. I apologize if you've answered these elsewhere.
What do you mean about putting your CAE in a timeout? Did you move him to another tank, for example? Does the timing of when you returned him to the normal tank (if you did indeed move him) correlate with when he started to exhibit some of the symptoms you mention?

Also, I just want to say I'm sorry for your loss, again. It is good that you've learned from this, and please know that 'seeing symptoms' of something off and fully recognizing such things as the symptoms that they are not the same thing. Often times it takes experience in seeing it, which unfortunately you just saw.

[Leeward]

Thank you. I am a bit crestfallen about this, which is why I'm trying to find out what happened so that I don't let it happen again. I would be very grateful for any advice more experienced members could offer.

By "timeout" I mean catching it at a moment when it was being aggressive, netting it out and putting it in a large round drinking glass (clean and made of glass) filled to 3/4 with tank water, floating in the tank. I only have one tank so I couldn't separate it any other way, but at least that rules out contamination from another tank. I left it in there for about 2h, swapping out some water around half-way. Pretty much immediately after I put it back in with the others, it started acting a lot more shy, hiding a lot more and no longer brazenly going at the other fish. That was about a month ago.

About two weeks ago I started noticing it getting bigger in girth quite suddenly. Since I got it it was growing in length quite steadily, but it always remained fairly "lean" despite foraging basically all day. I did not notice any buoyancy or movement issues, but when I found it dead the corpse was sort of "ballooned" like it had air inside, even though it was on the gravel.

[RiversGirl]

Hopefully others with experience in keeping CAE specifically will chime in, but my mind is already wondering if he sustained an injury during the capture/timeout/release. Do you think that his eyes were bulging, when you found him?

In addition, I'm wondering about the duration (2 hours, you'd said) and if that small amount of water got depleted of oxygen with only that one wc.

In short, my guess is that he sustained some damage during this timeout process and that eventually lead to his death.
I'd be interested in other opinions -- mine is only a guess, as I've never kept this type of fish.

I am sorry that you've lost him and hopeful still that you can learn from it all.

[Rocksor]

How big was the timeout container? How big was the CAE?

[Leeward]

The eyes were not bulging, as far as I could tell. When it was alive it would occasionally "blink" by quickly swivelling its eyes down and back up again.

I don't think it could have gotten injured, the glass it was in was round. Unless it smashed its face into the glass and concussed itself.

The glass I'd guess is around 500ml, and the CAE was around 4-5cm long. It might have run low on oxygen, but surely it would have recovered after a month back in the tank? It seems like too long a delay.

[Rocksor]

Maybe, maybe not. Stress is funny that way. The CAE may not have had fully recovered from the stress of timeout, stayed stressed, and eventually its immunity wore down enough to allow it to become susceptible to pathogenic bacteria that exists in the aquarium.

[Leeward]

Ah. I guess it's something to avoid in future then, thanks. How else could one isolate a troublesome fish without a spare tank though? It's unlikely to be necessary with my remaining fish but I suppose it would be good to know what I should have done, for future reference.

[Rocksor]

A spare tank is the best way to isolate a fish. You can use large 15g coolers or 30g plastic totes (use the thicker version). If you want to keep the fish in the same tank, use a tank divider. I think that floating in a container, high in the water column would have stressed it out more since it didn't understand why it could not get to the bottom.

[Leeward]

Makes sense, thanks.
Now that I realise it's my fault I really want to kick myself in the head.
I'll try not to traumatise my fish in future.

[Slaphppy7]

Hey, in this hobby, we live and we learn.....we have ALL made mistakes, but as long as we learn from them, then hopefully we won't repeat them.

[Boundava]

^^yes to that^^

[Slaphppy7]

And if you would like to see some mistakes from your's truly, have a look at the first few pages of the 10G journal in my sig...my very first tank...I had no clue what I was doing, lol...those poor fish

But the good folks here pulled me through just fine...

[RiversGirl]

Agree -- everyone makes mistakes. The beauty of a site such as this is that we can all learn from one another's mistakes.
Please don't kick yourself in the head over this.

Do consider asking questions here when you are thinking about possibly doing something -- adding fish is only one example. So many folks have been in similar situations, you are likely to gain a plethora of ideas and suggestions that pertain to your question/situation.

See ya around the Forum!

[Slaphppy7]

Agree 100% with Rivers.

So, are you planning on trying another CAE?

[Leeward]

Thanks guys. I'm glad I at least got some experience from this.

I don't think I'll get another CAE, in retrospect it was probably a bad idea because it'll grow too big for my tank. It was nice to start with though, and entertaining to watch it forage.

I was thinking of sticking with South American fish and getting a small species of pleco. But I'll make another thread for that, it's getting off-topic for this one. :P

[Slaphppy7]

Otos are a great little cat fish, too...they do an excellent job on algae...and you could have more than one

[mommy1]

My favorite solution someone here came up with was fish jail,post 15 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=108995&highlight=Jail

I don't recommend this for your situation but It still makes me giggle and I still can't believe it worked.

[RiversGirl]

My favorite solution someone here came up with was fish jail,post 15 http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=108995&highlight=Jail

I don't recommend this for your situation but It still makes me giggle and I still can't believe it worked.

That was an interesting read. Thanks for pointing it out!

[Leeward]

Otos are a great little cat fish, too...they do an excellent job on algae...and you could have more than one
I have looked at otos, but having a pleco is a childhood fantasy of mine.