PDA

View Full Version : Angelfish growing at a super fast rate



adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 05:19 PM
Hey guys, I'm going to attach some pictures but I've had two angels in my 38g for over a month now and they've been doing awesome. A couple weeks ago they started getting really aggressive towards each other but they've calmed down and have been doing fine. They're super healthy looking but I just looked into my tank a couple minutes ago and the stomach of my gold angel is HUGE! I fed them last night and it was not that big so I have no idea what happened. All day it's been hiding in between the filter and glass which it has never done before. I'd love to hear everyone say the poor thing is just eating well and that I don't have a pregnant angelfish, lol. Kind of hard to see in the pictures but honestly I've never seen a fish grow so much overnight

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 05:21 PM
38351
38352
38353

Also, please ignore the awful diatom bloom, today is cleaning day.

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 06:07 PM
your angel is not pregnant. Angels lay eggs. It's bloated for some other reason. it could be constipated or it could have internal parasites. Dropsy is also a possibility.

How do you maintain your tank? How often do you make water changes and how much water do you change out? Have you checked your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels lately? If it's dropsy, it's often caused by poor water quality - I'm not saying that's your problem but it is a possibly. You should have 0 ammonia and nitrites and less than 20 ppm nitrates. Angels need clean water as well. Weekly W/C of 30% or more if nitrates are higher than 20..

Additionally have you used a dewormer, such as prazi-pro, after you brought the angels home? If not, it's always a good idea to do so. Prazi-pro is very gentle and it's a good practice to dose your tank 2 times a year.

Are you sure this fish is eating? If it's been being bullied, it may not be eating at all and the stress could have caused the bloating in a round about way - weakening it's immune system and allowing internal parasites to grow.

In the meantime, do check your water parameters then make a large water change asap. at least 50%. While this may not directly treat your issue, if it is dropsy, it's a quick action that you can take to make the angel's environment better.

If the other angel is still badgering it, can you add some driftwood or some tall plants (even if they're plastic) to give this angel a place to hide and feel safer?

Read up on dropsy and bloating also to see if you can identify any commonalities with what your fish is experiencing. I'm sure others will also chime in here and attempt to help

ijankrom
12-22-2014, 06:38 PM
Yeah I was thinking dropsy. I believe you can tell a little when you have bad water quality. My fish, though they look fine, appear very calm and just a bit sluggish around the tank. Maybe your fish not being so aggressive is a sign of bad water quality. I'm with fishmommie, check your water parameters?

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 06:49 PM
On my way home now to do a WC and check my parameters. I do weekly water changes of 25% but I'm going to try to do a larger one today just incase. I'll look into grabbing some prazi-pro today

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 07:11 PM
On my way home now to do a WC and check my parameters. I do weekly water changes of 25% but I'm going to try to do a larger one today just incase. I'll look into grabbing some prazi-pro today

sounds like a good plan.Regardless of your water parameters, I would do 3 back to back water changes - today, tomorrow and the next day of 50% each.
Make sure you draw some water before you do the W/C today so you have an accurate reading when you check your params.

Good luck. Let us know how you come out.

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 07:37 PM
Ammonia is looking like it's in between 0 and 0.25 ppm, nitrites at 0.25 ppm and nitrates are at 80 ppm. Not shocked about nitrates seeing as no matter how many water changes I do they always seem to run along the high side, but this is a definitely more than it's typically at. Haven't seen ammonia or nitrites though in forever, really not sure where they are coming from. Going to do a 50% water change now, any ideas about why I'm seeing a spike in my params? I'm three days late for the WC, but this has never happened before.

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 07:55 PM
Goodness. Those nitrates are a killer.
Have you checked your tap water to see how high the nitrates are there?
Have you changed anything in your filters lately? And what type of filter(s) do you have running? You should have enough filtration to handle double the gallons in your tank,. So if you have a filter rated for 40 gallons, then you need another filter that can handle the same.
If you removed some carbon that had been there for a while, you would have lost a little BB and that could cause the ammonia and nitrite readings.
What about filter media? Have you tossed or cleaned any lately? if you tossed and replaced with new - then you lost most of your BB and that would account for the Ammonia and nitrites. If you rinsed your filter media in anything but old tank water, then you also killed your BB.

Do you vac your substrate when you do your water changes? If not, that could account for the terribly hi nitrates.
You need to keep that substrate cleaned up of waste and poo.
You could also be over feeding and causing the nitrate spike.

Lots of possibilities here. Do any of them sound like something that could be going on?

Alsoo, later today, I'd do another 50% W/C to get those nitrates down. You want them below 20ppm and 1 50% W/C will only lower to 40ppm.


Ammonia is looking like it's in between 0 and 0.25 ppm, nitrites at 0.25 ppm and nitrates are at 80 ppm. Not shocked about nitrates seeing as no matter how many water changes I do they always seem to run along the high side, but this is a definitely more than it's typically at. Haven't seen ammonia or nitrites though in forever, really not sure where they are coming from. Going to do a 50% water change now, any ideas about why I'm seeing a spike in my params? I'm three days late for the WC, but this has never happened before.

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 08:13 PM
I vacuum the gravel with every water change. I have an Aqueon Quiet Flow 50 in the tank now which has been doing a fairly good job of keeping the water clean. I did change the filter cartridge about a month ago, but I haven't touched in since. I haven't checked tap water for nitrates, but I just tested them a few minutes ago, waiting on the results. I'm going to try feeding a little less and see if that changes anything, it very well could be that. Really concerned with the fact that I'm seeing ammonia and nitrites, don't want the levels to get high. Doing more than one won't affect my bacteria growth will it? I typically do one every 24 hours when I have high levels that way I can monitor them. Will do another one tonight either way

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 08:26 PM
Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all at 0 for my tap water.

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 09:22 PM
Since your tap water shows 0 nitrates, then I suspect you're not doing large enough water changes, not doing them frequently enough (although you said you do them weekly, right?) and you're most likely over feeding.
I'd also get another filter. A small HOB like an AC20 should do it.
What type of media do you have in your filter? Bio rings? sponges? Floss?

And yes, do another 50% W/C later tonight. Your BB does not live in the water. It lives in the substrate and on decorations but mostly in the media in your filter. You could change out 100% of your water and not affect the BB but you would get your nitrates down to 0 :o)

I'd keep a very close watch on the nitrates for a while and when in doubt, do another water change.

How many other fish do you have in the tank and what kind? Any snails that could have died?


Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all at 0 for my tap water.

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 10:24 PM
They're floss filters. Right now I'm stocked with the two angels, 6 July corys, and 10 black neon tetras. I had snails a few months ago, but they're all gone now. What do you suggest I do for a WC from now on? Also, I've noticed over the past week that my filter is actually overflowing and the water isn't all passing through the media. I've got a thin piece of sponge at the end to reduce the noise level, but without the sponge this still happens. Could this be affecting my water quality at all?

Slaphppy7
12-22-2014, 10:24 PM
Good advice...and fishmommie is suggesting an ADDITIONAL filter, to work in conjunction with the one you already have.

I'd get an AC30 myself, that way you are 2X filtered for a 38 gallon, with the original filter, or at least close to it

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 11:09 PM
I do have an Aqueon 55/75 that isn't being used right now, which is rated for up to 90 gallons. I don't use it because I'm always concerned the current will be too much and it's pretty loud as well. Do you think if I switch out the one I'm using now for that one I could avoid buying the AC30?

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 11:16 PM
It would be a good idea to add some biological media to your fliter - ceramic rings or balls. Something that the BB will colonize on. Floss will also hold BB but you need a better source.
And when you clean your floss (which should be more than every 3 months), just rinse it gently in old tank water to keep what BB you have in tact. Don't throw your floss away, unless it's literally falling apart If you toss it, you toss all of your BB.

As for the water flow. You may have to turn the filter off and do some exploring inside. If you are over feeding then your floss may be full of waste food. Again, if so, take some water from the tank, then gently rinse the floss to get ride of the gunk and put it right back in. don't let it dry and don't let i come in contact with tap water because the chlorine in the tape water will kill all the BB. If you add the ceramic rings, also keep the floss. I've always been able to figure out a way to add additional media :o)

And yes, As Slap said, a 2nd filter would be very helpful.

Your stock looks good. If you had snails and don't now, they apparently died in the tank? or were you able to fish them out? If some dead ones are still in there, that could affect your water parameters but I'm more inclined to think it's an issue of under filtration, inadequate biological media (no ceramic rings) and possibly over feeding.

You'll get there! Right now, concentrate on those water changes and getting the nitrates down.

The amount of water you change out will depend on your nitrate reading. You need to get it below 20ppm.
See what it reads tomorrow after you've done the 2 water changes today. If it's still above 20 do another change. And even if you get it under 20 but your ammonia or nitrite read over .25ppm, you need to do a change as well

The sponge shouldn't affect your water quality.


They're floss filters. Right now I'm stocked with the two angels, 6 July corys, and 10 black neon tetras. I had snails a few months ago, but they're all gone now. What do you suggest I do for a WC from now on? Also, I've noticed over the past week that my filter is actually overflowing and the water isn't all passing through the media. I've got a thin piece of sponge at the end to reduce the noise level, but without the sponge this still happens. Could this be affecting my water quality at all?

Slaphppy7
12-22-2014, 11:18 PM
As long as you can easily switch over the media, I don't see why you couldn't give it a try

But with your params not "just right" right now, I'm not sure if I would be doing any experimenting

ADDING a new filter can't harm anything, but taking OUT one that is still getting established may cause problems...after all, at least some of the BB you are growing is on the filter housing itself

fishmommie
12-22-2014, 11:21 PM
I do have an Aqueon 55/75 that isn't being used right now, which is rated for up to 90 gallons. I don't use it because I'm always concerned the current will be too much and it's pretty loud as well. Do you think if I switch out the one I'm using now for that one I could avoid buying the AC30?

I had a 55/75 too. It was also noisy. I called the company. they sent me a new impeller. Hardly any questions asked. that solved the noise problem. I'd give it a try. They may charge you for a new impeller but I can't imagine it would be much. If you explain that you've had it for a while but never used it because of the noise, though, i bet they'll replace if free.

In the meantime, if you decided to use the Aqueon (it would be a great size for your tank) removed the impeller from the motor housing, clean everything out in there with a q-tip, then place a very light film of vaseline on the impeller shaft. It might get rid of the noise.

If you decide to use the 55/75 now would be a good time to add those ceramic rings. Run your current filter along side of it untill the Aqueon is seeded. You can never over filter a tank. You could tuck a sponge in it too and additional floss if you want to.

If you're not going to be happy with the 55/75. hover, I'd get the smaller AC when you can.

adamlafrance
12-22-2014, 11:44 PM
The one thing that I loved about the 55/75 was the fact that two filters are used, so I don't feel like I'm getting rid of all my bacteria when I'd change one out. Someday I'd love to have an eheim but that's definitely not in the budget at the moment, lol. As far as media goes, as a kid I can remember my dad opening up the filter cartridges and removing old carbon and replacing it with new ones while not throwing out the floss itself. I don't believe the cartridges I've got now open up, but should I look into something like that in order to add media?

Slaphppy7
12-22-2014, 11:54 PM
This is one reason the AquaClear filters are superior to the one you have now...there's no cartridges, just a sponge (for mechainical filtration, debris and stuff) and then basically a wide open space to fill with ceramic media, which is far superior to floss (and even cartridges) in my opinion

I use this media, will never use anything else when starting up a new tank, or a new filter: http://www.amazon.com/Fluval-Biomax-Bio-Rings-ounces/dp/B000HHSG5M

I use nylon mesh bags to hold it...when time comes to clean the filter, I can just take out the whole bag, place it in a bowl of old tank water, and let it sit while I clean the filter housing.

When the filter is clean and back on the tank, I'll "swish" the bag of media in the old tank water to remove as much debris, as possible, then put back in the filter, prime it, start it back up and done.

Never let this media dry out, and never rinse it in anything but tank water, and it works like a charm.

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 01:17 AM
Got out the 55/75 to see if it would fit, but it's so wide that it won't fit with the top I have. I'll get to Petco by the end of the week for the AC. What do you guys recommend for a new water change amount?

fishmommie
12-23-2014, 01:26 AM
Got out the 55/75 to see if it would fit, but it's so wide that it won't fit with the top I have. I'll get to Petco by the end of the week for the AC. What do you guys recommend for a new water change amount?

Once again, it's going to depend on how your nitrates are doing. If it takes weekly water changes of 50% to keep them under 20 ppm then that's what you may have to do. Hopefully, after you get the right amount of filtration and your new filter gets seeded, you should settle in and 30 - 50% weekly W/C will most likely keep things in check.

Until then, however, I'd do those back to back water changes like we talked about - then check the nitrates. If you've got them down under 20ppm, you can start a weekly W.C schedule right away. .
UNLESS you continue to have an ammonia and nitrite reading. if so, you'll need to keep on t op of it - again, with water changes. you don't want the ammonia or nitrites to read above .25ppm. If they do - yup. W/C

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 01:32 AM
Alright, we'll see what happens after the WC tomorrow. Thanks for all the help! thumbs2:

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 04:41 PM
Ammonia and nitrites are reading at 0ppm as of this morning, nitrates reading a little bit above 40ppm. Doing another 50% WC after feeding time today

fishmommie
12-23-2014, 08:17 PM
looks like you're getting on top of things. I'd do another w/c tomorrow to get them under 20 (you could actually do another w/c today) because 40 is still too high. Just keep working at it. Make your goal 10ppm nitrates the day after your w/c. That gives you a cushion as the nitrates will rise between w/c's

How is the angel doing? any improvement?

And good for you for getting on top of this!

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 08:22 PM
Both of the Angels are now experiencing some bloating. Thinking it might be constipation so I'm going to try some peas if the issue doesn't clear up.

fishmommie
12-23-2014, 08:49 PM
I was afraid that might happen. All that you're doing may help but if it's dropsy, it might be too little to late - just keep up with those W/C and keep improving the water quality.

I wouldn't feed them for a few days. Try the peas but get any part of it out of there if they haven't eaten it in an hour or two.

Angels can go a long time without eating. Mine went 6 weeks when she was infested with a nasty protozoan. I treated her, fed her every day but it wasn't until week 6 that she felt well enough to finally eat. that was over a year ago and she's fine now.

You might also consider fasting your tank one day a week. I usually fast mine the day of a water change.
It's so tempting to always feed them but as my friends here have taught me, more fish die from over feeding than from underfeeding.


Both of the Angels are now experiencing some bloating. Thinking it might be constipation so I'm going to try some peas if the issue doesn't clear up.

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 11:19 PM
Is it likely that I could lose the Angels due to dropsy? And is it possible that it could spread to my tetras and corys?

fishmommie
12-23-2014, 11:41 PM
Fortunately it's not contagious and your tetras can handle a littler harsher water conditions than the angels so hopefully what you've been doing will keep them from also getting it.

I am worried about the angels. Angels are very sensitive to water quality and those nitrates were really bad news. Here's actually a pretty good how to treat dropsy article
http://www.ehow.com/how_8742028_treat-dropsy-fish.html
Read it thoroughly before you take any additional action other than another water change yet tonight.
Good luck




Is it likely that I could lose the Angels due to dropsy? And is it possible that it could spread to my tetras and corys?

Slaphppy7
12-23-2014, 11:52 PM
adam, you're lucky to have fishmommie here to stick with you and give you all of this great advice

I have no angels, so no experience with them...but her advice sounds spot-on to me

Good luck to you, I hope it works out just fine.

adamlafrance
12-23-2014, 11:57 PM
Definitely a good read, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, I've been called into work tomorrow so I have to finish last minute holiday stuff tonight, pushing back my next WC. Hoping to do one early tomorrow morning. After reading it I definitely noticed some signs I wouldn't have detected earlier. The gold angel wasn't all that into eating today which struck me as odd. Hoping they'll pull through but after reading that and a few other articles, I'm getting a little nervous

adamlafrance
12-24-2014, 12:01 AM
Thanks Slap, definitely appreciate all the advice from both of you. Seems fishmommie has saved my fish a few times now!

Slaphppy7
12-24-2014, 12:06 AM
She knows her stuff...and I bet if you asked, she'll tell you that everything she knows about fishkeeping she learned from the good folks here, and is happy to share the info.

That's the case for me, at least.

fishmommie
12-24-2014, 02:59 AM
She knows her stuff...and I bet if you asked, she'll tell you that everything she knows about fishkeeping she learned from the good folks here, and is happy to share the info.

That's the case for me, at least.

For sure. This forum has taught me everything I know about fish.

Sure hope you can squeeze in that extra W/C tonight or in the morning. Good luck

adamlafrance
12-24-2014, 03:10 AM
For sure. This forum has taught me everything I know about fish.

Sure hope you can squeeze in that extra W/C tonight or in the morning. Good luck

Setting my alarm early so I can get it done. Probably won't be able to do a 50% due to how long it takes me to drain and refill the tank, but I'll do whatever I can given my time restraints.

adamlafrance
12-27-2014, 12:25 AM
Did a 30% water change on the 24th, I noticed that day that their bloating had gone down to practically nothing, and has not returned since thumbs2: I'll be keeping a close eye on them for a while still, and definitely checking my params more often. Thanks for all your help, guys!

Slaphppy7
12-27-2014, 01:21 AM
Great news, good to hear this

fishmommie
12-28-2014, 03:49 AM
very glad to hear this. And good for you for following through. Once you get them past this, you may want to consider ordering some medicated flakes from angels plus. Angels often come with internal parasites and by simply feeding these flakes for 6 days ever 6 months, you can keep on top of them.

adamlafrance
12-28-2014, 02:30 PM
very glad to hear this. And good for you for following through. Once you get them past this, you may want to consider ordering some medicated flakes from angels plus. Angels often come with internal parasites and by simply feeding these flakes for 6 days ever 6 months, you can keep on top of them.

Good to know, I'll definitely be ordering some!