PDA

View Full Version : Angel Fish Stopped Eating?



gl2238
09-08-2014, 09:40 PM
55 Gal Tank with five Angels 5-7" about four years old. None have paired off but some aggression with one in particular. Hope not all males. Water quality PH, Nitrates, etc all in good range with 30 gal water change about two weeks ago. Dual filter with triple aeration. Originally had 6 but one died overnight for no apparent reason three weeks ago. All had been eating well and active in the tank. About four days ago I noticed one not moving much and not eating at all. Tends to stay in the mid to lower part of the tank. Food can pass right in front of it and it still refuses to go after it. There is no apparent swelling and fins are at full extent. I have tried flakes, brine and tubeflex worms with no result. PH check out at 7.2 which is what it has been maintained at long term. Temp is maintained at 82 Deg F. Nitrates < 1PPM. Ammonia 0 PPM. Is this simply an end of live scenario or am I overlooking something? In addition to the angels there are six catfish, a Plecostomus, 2 red tail sharks, 2 black tail sharks. One of the angels is pitch black with unusual fin structure. It seems to be the one that gets picked on by the others.

Slaphppy7
09-08-2014, 09:45 PM
For starters, this tank is grossly overstocked, probably leading to the harassment of the angel.

gronlaura
09-08-2014, 09:54 PM
I completely agree.

mommy1
09-08-2014, 10:54 PM
I find it hard to believe a tank stocked this heavily has less than 1ppm nitrate, with one water change two weeks ago. Is the tank heavily planted? Why do you have the temperature so high, mid to upper 70's is good for those fish. Raising the temperature to the 80+ range will make the fish more active and more aggressive.

rebecca_finny
09-09-2014, 05:15 AM
My angels are a lot more docile at 75-77 degrees, at 83 they just go nuts. lol

gl2238
09-09-2014, 06:42 PM
For starters, this tank is grossly overstocked, probably leading to the harassment of the angel.

The other fish noted i.e. catfish are only 1" or less and the Pleco is a baby. The red and black tail tip sharks are also only 1.5" or less, essentially babies. I was told that there should be about 1 gal for each inch of fish. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. Relative to regression on the angel that died this AM, if anything it was an aggressor not subject to aggression from the other angels. Only the pitch black seems to be picked on. The others kind of mind there own matters with each other.

I checked the chemicals again and they are as stated in the original posting.

Based on the guideline, a 55 Gal should be ample. There are now 4 angels left with average size of 5". The 55 should be reasonable considering the sizes of the other bottom feeders and the sharks. My water tests are with liquid test by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals not test strips. I use Prime as the pre-water add conditioner which I have used for years.

I appreciate the commentary to my question from all respondents.

I am not an expert by a long shot but I suspect it simply might have been sick with a bacterium or virus. Since it was not swollen I have ruled out a gastro blockage. Interesting is that the angel that died overnight three weeks ago was active and eating the night before?

mommy1
09-09-2014, 07:29 PM
Well since you seem to have everything else well under control let me just tell you 1 inch per gallon is wrong. The most common used to prove this is, you wouldn't put a 10 inch oscar in a 10 gallon right?.

gl2238
09-10-2014, 02:43 PM
Well since you seem to have everything else well under control let me just tell you 1 inch per gallon is wrong. The most common used to prove this is, you wouldn't put a 10 inch oscar in a 10 gallon right?.

Actually I do agree with you but your example is a bit extreme. Years ago I had an Jack Dempsey 9" or so in a 20 gal and he did fine for years. Kept him happy with hamburger. The 4 large fish in the 55 I do not think is an overkill for the size of tank. The other small fish are almost lost in the tank with all the caves and plants That is only my opinion. I am going to move the four sharks to their own 20 which I am now setting up. That should surely clear up any question that the 55 is over crowded. You make a good point with your example. Only common sense works when the fish are of mixed size. Tnx for your comment.

mommy1
09-10-2014, 02:51 PM
Of course my example is extreme, that is why it is a good example that most people can understand. A 9 inch jack dempsey in a 20 gallon eating hamburger is abuse. Red tail sharks need a much bigger tank than a 20g. They are far to active to be crammed in such a small tank, they deserve nothing under 4 feet long.

gl2238
09-15-2014, 02:14 PM
Of course my example is extreme, that is why it is a good example that most people can understand. A 9 inch jack dempsey in a 20 gallon eating hamburger is abuse. Red tail sharks need a much bigger tank than a 20g. They are far to active to be crammed in such a small tank, they deserve nothing under 4 feet long.

I, of course, agree with you. I had gotten it when it was about 2" and it grew faster than any other tropical fish I have ever heard. Living in a small apartment at that time, I was unable to get a larger tank. I now have the sharks in their own tank and all is well. I did drop the water temp to about 78F based on the comments. One good note, I have identified a pair. My pure black and a pure white appear to be paired off. Now I need another tank (laugh). Getting to be an expensive hobby, but my visiting grand kids just sit and watch with awe.

One thing I will not do again is change out the dual filters when doing a major water change. Even with the clear water chemical it takes almost two weeks to regain clear water. With the last change, I did not change out the filters but waited a week, and low and behold the clarity, without adding any chemicals, was clear in three days.

Slaphppy7
09-15-2014, 02:27 PM
What do you mean by "changing out the dual filters"?

Use as few chemicals as possible in the tank...proper filter maintenance will help you keep clear water

mommy1
09-15-2014, 03:00 PM
As with any hobby, this one has good products and not so good products for us to use. This is especially the case when it comes to filters in this hobby. There are good ones and bad ones.
The "bad" ones have cartridges that need changing each month.They work well enough between cartridge changes to filter the water but, the problem with this type of filter is, the cartridge is where most of the bacteria that keep our tanks non-toxic live. When you change out the cartridges you lose a good part of the bacteria and your tank will start what we call a mini-cycle and many times, especially if the tank is over stocked, the water will get cloudy.
The better filters use media in a basket or chamber and that media next to never needs replacing. You just rinse it off in old tank water or clean dechlorinated water once in a while and put it back. You still lose a small part of the bacteria, but not enough to make a difference. There is no mini-cycle and your water stays clear. Fluval, Eheim, Rena, and SunSun are all among the better brands for filters and come in a range of prices so most can find a better filter in their price range.

rebecca_finny
09-17-2014, 05:19 PM
The other fish noted i.e. catfish are only 1" or less and the Pleco is a baby. The red and black tail tip sharks are also only 1.5" or less, essentially babies. I was told that there should be about 1 gal for each inch of fish. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. Relative to regression on the angel that died this AM, if anything it was an aggressor not subject to aggression from the other angels. Only the pitch black seems to be picked on. The others kind of mind there own matters with each other.

I checked the chemicals again and they are as stated in the original posting.

Based on the guideline, a 55 Gal should be ample. There are now 4 angels left with average size of 5". The 55 should be reasonable considering the sizes of the other bottom feeders and the sharks. My water tests are with liquid test by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals not test strips. I use Prime as the pre-water add conditioner which I have used for years.

I appreciate the commentary to my question from all respondents.

I am not an expert by a long shot but I suspect it simply might have been sick with a bacterium or virus. Since it was not swollen I have ruled out a gastro blockage. Interesting is that the angel that died overnight three weeks ago was active and eating the night before?

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but your fish won't be small for long.

gl2238
09-18-2014, 03:12 PM
As with any hobby, this one has good products and not so good products for us to use. This is especially the case when it comes to filters in this hobby. There are good ones and bad ones.
The "bad" ones have cartridges that need changing each month.They work well enough between cartridge changes to filter the water but, the problem with this type of filter is, the cartridge is where most of the bacteria that keep our tanks non-toxic live. When you change out the cartridges you lose a good part of the bacteria and your tank will start what we call a mini-cycle and many times, especially if the tank is over stocked, the water will get cloudy.
The better filters use media in a basket or chamber and that media next to never needs replacing. You just rinse it off in old tank water or clean dechlorinated water once in a while and put it back. You still lose a small part of the bacteria, but not enough to make a difference. There is no mini-cycle and your water stays clear. Fluval, Eheim, Rena, and SunSun are all among the better brands for filters and come in a range of prices so most can find a better filter in their price range.

I guess I have the cartridge type which I rinse out every 2 or 3 weeks and change out about 6 to 8 weeks. It is a single pump with two filter sections. Based on the information I am getting from you and others on the site, I have changed to only either cleaning or changing out the filter media alternatively. In this way there is always an active filter for the tank.

I have had no other problems at this point. The Prime conditioner, I have used for years to condition the tap water apparently works quite well so no reason to change. Only chemical I have added was when I detected some Ick on my black angel (my favorite). I treated it in a hospital tank for one week. A-OK now. The four small sharks are doing just fine in the 20 and yes I know they grow but I have no more room for the hobby. Current inventory is two 55s, 2 20s and a 10 gal hospital tank. The beta tank is a 2.5 Gal with a removable separator. It uses a foam filter.

My tnx to everyone on this thread for all your help.

fishnerd1230
12-08-2014, 11:32 PM
I, of course, agree with you. I had gotten it when it was about 2" and it grew faster than any other tropical fish I have ever heard. Living in a small apartment at that time, I was unable to get a larger tank. I now have the sharks in their own tank and all is well. I did drop the water temp to about 78F based on the comments. One good note, I have identified a pair. My pure black and a pure white appear to be paired off. Now I need another tank (laugh). Getting to be an expensive hobby, but my visiting grand kids just sit and watch with awe.

One thing I will not do again is change out the dual filters when doing a major water change. Even with the clear water chemical it takes almost two weeks to regain clear water. With the last change, I did not change out the filters but waited a week, and low and behold the clarity, without adding any chemicals, was clear in three days.

I do not wish to insult you with proving the 1" rule is wrong yet again with a variation of the examples provided above. I also realize that the question you have asked has not yet been answered to your satisfaction. In this reply I will attempt to clear up both issues.

First, the stocking issue:
Disregarding your previous tanks, This tank [U]may[U] be overstocked. That could be the cause of your issues, because all 5 of the angels could be feeling a little crowded. This may have happened regardless of what other fish you have in the tank, because angels like to have their own "territory" within a tank they share with other angels. I am fully aware that your situation may not permit you to simply move a few angels to another tank, in which case I am afraid you may want to take some back to the store. I suggest possibly quarantining a few of the perpetrators of the violence and reducing the total number of angels in the tank for a little while to see if the black angel ceases to be picked on. If this solves your problem, then the overstock is to blame.

I would like to mention that I feel angels need an exceptional amount of space compared to other freshwater fish due to their territorial nature. It is because of this that even if the 1" rule was true, it would not be able to be applied to this particular species of fish.

Second:
The violence could be due to the personalities or the sexes of your angels. I am unaware of your knowledge of keeping angel fish, but usually the only time anyone would have 5 angels in a 55 gallon tank would be the following:
Many people desire a pair of angels, but since they are so difficult to sex (especially at a young age) it is recommended to purchase 5-6 immature angels and allow them to pair off on their own. After the pairing, the unpaired angels are usually wither moved to a different tank or taken back to the store.

Because of this, I suspect that an alternate cause of the violence could be due to the fact that 4 of your angels may have paired up, and the black angel is the odd one out. Therefore, you may want to take the black angel back to the store or move it to a different tank to live out its life in peace. Angelfish can be perfectly happy living alone, so don't feel bad if you have to move it.


I really hope I have been able to answer your questions in a polite way that others may have not. Please reply and let me know what happens! I hope it all works out for you and your angel buddies. :)

All the best,
- S