Stocking a brackish aquarium

[showmebutterfly]

I hope to get some conversation started on this topic and that there are some people on this forum with brackish water experience and / or knowledge that will chime in. :poke:

General definition of brackish water: pH >8, dH >12, with 2 to 3 tablespoons of sea salt per 2.5 gallons (10 liters) of water.

I have compiled a list of brackish water fish from books that I have on hand. This is by no means meant to be a complete list. There are probably some shrimp, snails, etc. that can be stocked in brackish tanks as well. I am still doing research and hope to have a list of those, as well as plants, in the near future. All the fish below prefer brackish water, but that does not mean that they can all be kept together. Do your research to determine tank size needs and compatibility of species! Hopefully this list will act as a starting point for those interested in brackish aquarium setups and hopefully I won't have misspelled too many of the scientific names! (blush)

Common Name - Scientific name:

Orange Chromide - Etropius maculatus

Wrestling Halfbeak - Dermogenys pusilla

Black Molly - Poecilia hybrid

Sailfin Molly - Poecilia velifera

Spiny Eel - Macrognathus aculeatus or Mastacembelus argus

Australian Rainbowfish - Melanotaenia nigrans

Mono or Malayan Angelfish - Monodactylus argenteus

Bumblebee Goby - Brachygobius xanthozona

Indian Glassfish - Chanda ranga

Tiger Fish - Datnioides microlepis

Mosquito fish - Gambusia affinis

Gymnochanda Filamentosa

Scat - Scatophagus argus

Asian Pufferfish - Tetraodon fluviatilis

Archerfish - Toxotes jaculator

Smallscale Archer - Toxotes microlepis

African Pipefish - Enneacampus ansorgii

Dwarf Puffer - Carinotetraodon travancoricus

Hogchoker - Trinectes maculates or Achirus fasciatus

Shark Catfish - Ariopsis seemanni

[sheamurai]

I believe nerite snails do well in brackish water.

good luck with this project!

[showmebutterfly]

Thank you, Shea! I believe you are right on those snails too. thumbs2:

So far the list I've come up with is:

Nerite snails
Malayan livebearing snails

Amano shrimp
Red Hawaiian shrimp
Red-nose shrimp

There are probably more and I will keep looking.

[aquariumlover10]

I don't know if you already posted this but flagfish can be in brackish.

[showmebutterfly]

This is what I have found so far, but it was off the internet, so take with a grain of salt - hee hee

The only information given was that most of these require low brackish levels, rich substrate and good lighting - no definition of what would be considered low levels, rich or good. :(

So for what it's worth - plants:

Aponogeten crispus
Mexican oak leaf
Carolina fanwort - Cabomba Carolina
Parrot feather
Banana plant
Cryptocoryne ciliate
Hygrophila sp.
Onion plant
Hornwort
Vallineria sp.
Moneywort
African Tiger Lotus
Micro sword
Java fern
Java moss
Widgeon grass - Ruppia maritima

[showmebutterfly]

I found these listed on the internet, scientific names not provided. I would recommend looking up the ones you are interested in and checking their care requirements before adding them to a brackish environment.

Horse-face loach
Flying fox
Rainbow goby
African mudskipper
Rhino goby
Florida / American flagfish
Dragon / Violet goby
Knight / Spotted goby
Green chromide
Acara
Mollies
Guppies
Platies
Swordtails

[showmebutterfly]

I don't know if you already posted this but flagfish can be in brackish.

You must have posted while I was typing lists! Thank you al10!

[afro123]

You just cant have enough of fish tanks can you?
Nice to see you doing another journal :)

[showmebutterfly]

It will still just be the 3 tanks. lol One cichlid tank, one tropical fw tank and one brackish or sw tank (probably brackish).

[afro123]

Now get a few lions, snakes, a croc or two, and a few other exotic animals and you can open a zoo :P

[showmebutterfly]

Now get a few lions, snakes, a croc or two, and a few other exotic animals and you can open a zoo :P

Heck no. I don't want to do that much more research! :lol: Pretty sure we already have snakes anyway. Plus an indoor cat, outdoor barn cat and 3 cows. The hubs takes care of the cows and helps with the cats. Birds, squirrels, rabbits... all kinds of wildlife out in the country. But they have to fend for themselves - along with the snakes and spiders and bugs.

[afro123]

Woops...... Get a couple of goats, a horse and a donkey and now you have a petting zoo and a farm. (add some chicken and ducks to that list)

[aquariumlover10]

I think you already posted but, mosquitofish, guppies, and mollys can be in fw, bw, or sw.
Alsojava moss is good for bw tanks.

[showmebutterfly]

Woops...... Get a couple of goats, a horse and a donkey and now you have a petting zoo and a farm. (add some chicken and ducks to that list)

I want some fainting goats, but we'd have to redo all the fencing, so too expensive. :yellowcry:

[aquariumlover10]

Haha no you would hate them after a minute, goats eat everything, grass, wood, plastic, metal, everything and the males are aggressive I had a goat once and he ramed the stairs off our front porch.

[showmebutterfly]

Haha no you would hate them after a minute, goats eat everything, grass, wood, plastic, metal, everything and the males are aggressive I had a goat once and he ramed the stairs off our front porch.

I'll stick with just watching the fainting goat videos on youtube. lol

[aquariumlover10]

Haha yeahgoats are mean where old and young I had a baby goat kick me in the crotch.

[showmebutterfly]

Haha yeahgoats are mean where old and young I had a baby goat kick me in the crotch.

OUCH! :ambulance:

[aquariumlover10]

Yup and I also had a mean mini horse chase me and about a year ago I had a bull chase me.

[wayhilc]

Yeah, but you miss all of our animals, don't you AL10

[wayhilc]

Wow, never thought about petting zoo, we have snakes, an occasional gator, fox, squirrel, rabbit, deer, wild turkey, opossums, coyote, armadillos, raccoons cats, dogs, chickens, and every bird imaginable. Got rid of cows, horses, and goats. Bummer, think of all the aquarium money we could have made.

[aquariumlover10]

Yeah I hope we can get land.you can sell meat.

[afro123]

Wow, never thought about petting zoo, we have snakes, an occasional gator, fox, squirrel, rabbit, deer, wild turkey, opossums, coyote, armadillos, raccoons cats, dogs, chickens, and every bird imaginable. Got rid of cows, horses, and goats. Bummer, think of all the aquarium money we could have made.

I think that is pretty cool :)

[showmebutterfly]

I thought this was beautiful aquascaping. The plants and rock would work well for a brackish setup. They used java fern, java moss and lava rock.

36672

[Compass]

I thought this was beautiful aquascaping. The plants and rock would work well for a brackish setup. They used java fern, java moss and lava rock.

36672

That is probably the best brackish tank I've seen. Though I personally would have used a light colored sand as the substrate. I've always liked the idea of a mangrove tank, but to get it to where I'd want with the roots and all would take YEARS. lol

[showmebutterfly]

I couldn't figure out if the substrate was coarse sand or gravel, but agree that light sand would look good in that setup. I've seen a few pics of the mangrove tanks with the open tops and the roots do look amazing.

[afro123]

It does look incredible :)
But correct me if I am wrong Java moss can only survive in lightly brackish water right?

[showmebutterfly]

It does look incredible :)
But correct me if I am wrong Java moss can only survive in lightly brackish water right?

I'm not sure about the exact salinity, but will check into it. :)

[showmebutterfly]

Java moss can tolerate SG up to 1.005. Java fern up to 1.013. I found another good article on brackish systems:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I2/Brackish%20Systems/brackish.htm

[showmebutterfly]

After spending several weeks researching and trying to plan a sw setup and experiencing a lot of frustration, ups and downs and just generally unhappy and stressed out, I'm back to planning a brackish tank and feel happy and excited again. Hooray!

Since there is not a specific thread for brackish tank journals and I've already rambled all around on this thread, I guess this will be my journal. :)

I'm still playing around with the layout, but am fairly pleased with this one, except for the right side. I'd like to put in a few mangroves (probably on the left) and some java fern scattered about. I may have some java moss too, but that will depend on the salinity.

36704

[showmebutterfly]

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BrackishSubWebIndex/s_e_asianstr.htm

[aquariumlover10]

Flagfish can also be in bw, and monos are cool..

[afro123]

Your tank is a 45gall correct?
I like puffers......

just saying(hint)

[showmebutterfly]

The 45g is the jungle tank for the hubs. This tank is the 29g. I like the monos, but this tank is too small for them. Puffers are not very good community fish due to their aggression and in a small tank like this they probably wouldn't work well. Although some of them are really cute! Cute and mean. lol
Stocking options that I am looking at are knight goby, orange chromide, celebes rainbow, Indian glassfish and black mollies - I'd like to choose 3 species from that list that will all get along well together. I was also looking at bumblebee goby, but have since found out that the knight goby would eat them and mollies might keep them from getting any food, so they may not make the final stocking list.
Another thing that I'm having to keep in mind is that, other than the mollies, most of these are not readily available from lfs and will likely have to be ordered and shipped. Orange chromide and knight goby seem to be more difficult to find, but I like them so will keep looking for them. Once my tank is ready to be stocked (which will be at least a couple months down the road, if not more) I will look to see what is available and make my final choices from there.

[showmebutterfly]

For inverts I am looking at nerite snails, amano shrimp and opae ula (red shrimp). Plants will likely be java fern, mangroves and maybe some java moss.

[afro123]

I like the glass fish and mollies.
Just BTW a 29 gallon is more than enough for a couple of puffers, (Though it would be a waste of space.)

[gronlaura]

Amano shrimp need brackish water only to breed and for the larvae to survive, but their ideal tank parameters are pH 7.2, dGH 8 and no salt. They are not a brackish water shrimp.

This looks to be a very interesting journal!

[showmebutterfly]

I like the glass fish and mollies.
Just BTW a 29 gallon is more than enough for a couple of puffers, (Though it would be a waste of space.)

I don't know that it'd be a waste of space and the figure 8 puffers would work with the chromides. I'll be doing some more research on those to see what else they are compatible with. Depending on what the rest of the stock ends up being, I may end up with some puffers. It's good to have options. :)


Amano shrimp need brackish water only to breed and for the larvae to survive, but their ideal tank parameters are pH 7.2, dGH 8 and no salt. They are not a brackish water shrimp.

This looks to be a very interesting journal!

Thank you for bringing that to my attention! They were recommended in one or two of the articles I read for brackish setups, but I guess I will need to do some more research. I'd like to have some type of shrimp in this tank, if possible. :)

[aquariumlover10]

Ghost shrimp can be in bw, but they will eat smaller shrimp, and smaller fish.

[showmebutterfly]

Ghost shrimp can be in bw, but they will eat smaller shrimp, and smaller fish.

How big do ghost shrimp get that they can eat smaller shrimp and smaller fish? I'm sitting here picturing a giant killer shrimp! lol The opae ula that I want are considered small shrimp and I wouldn't want them eaten by another shrimp or any of the fish. I still have to figure out what will be safe with them...

[aquariumlover10]

They CAN get 2" but normaly a 1.25" just for a picture, they can/will eat rcs

[afro123]

or their own kind.
get ghost shrimp of the same size so they will all grow together.

[aquariumlover10]

Smb, I have an idea for stocking, what about getting some of these http://www.swampriveraquatics.com/id11.html those are wild sailfin mollies, i they are on aquadib a lot.

[afro123]

They do look unique. But Im guessing they breed the same as normal mollies?

[aquariumlover10]

Yup, they are called green sailfin mollies, the green is how you tell there the wild ones :)

[showmebutterfly]

Some of those look pretty interesting. That sight said they only get 4". Most of the other places I've seen them say they can get 5-6", which would likely be too big for my tank since it's only 30" wide and mollies like swimming room. I will keep them in mind. Thank you for the link, al.

[aquariumlover10]

They normaly stay 3-4" in a aquarium, they are also very peaceful and can be in fw,bw, or sw :) so you could put in a sw if you ever get one.

[afro123]

SW?
I had no idea.

[aquariumlover10]

Yup, all mollies and guppies that I know of can be acclimated to a saltwater aquarium, pretty cool huh?

[showmebutterfly]

I've had the rocks soaking for a few days and set up the circulation pump (it's pretty loud - not too happy about that - hopefully when it's set up as a powerhead it will be a bit quieter) to get the water moving. Tested for nitrates today and they're between 10 to 20 ppm. I was hoping I would get lucky and that the rocks wouldn't be leaching them. But since they are, I am grateful that Cliff warned me to check for that before setting up the tank. So it looks like water changes will be in order for a while to get rid of the nitrates.

On a happier note, I bought some pool filter sand for the substrate and another sheet of eggcrate. The eggcrate I have in the bottom of the tank is 2 pieces and the smaller one slides around whenever I'm trying to arrange the rocks. I found that irritating. Now I can cut a single piece to fit the bottom of the tank and not have to deal with the sliding.

I'll be using part of the new sheet for a partial tank cover (I hope). My plan is to use one of the glass pieces from my Aqueon lid on the back of the tank to reduce the risk of water getting splashed on the wall. The piece of eggcrate, cut to fit, will cover the rest of the top of the tank in the front. If it works like I hope, I will be able to cut out a section so that I can have my HOB on the left side of the tank, instead of in the back. It will also allow me to have openings for the mangroves to grow through once they get tall enough. That's the plan so far, and it works out well in my head, hopefully it will work out well in reality land too!

[Cliff]

I'm glad to hear you are making progress with your rocks. I know it may not feel like it right now, but trust me, this will really pay off for you in the long run

Mollies would also make a great brackish fish for your set-up, as they are naturally found and thrive in brackish conditions in the wild. I am a big believer in keeping fish in the same type of water conditions as they are found in nature.

[showmebutterfly]

I'm glad to hear you are making progress with your rocks. I know it may not feel like it right now, but trust me, this will really pay off for you in the long run

Mollies would also make a great brackish fish for your set-up, as they are naturally found and thrive in brackish conditions in the wild. I am a big believer in keeping fish in the same type of water conditions as they are found in nature.
I am so glad you let me know to check for that before I started cycling the tank. It never would have occurred to me that the rocks could have absorbed and held onto Nitrates. I'll be happy to start with a clean(er) slate after getting these taken care of and that makes the testing and water changes worthwhile.

I am enjoying the planning process now and may have even found a local source for mangroves. :)

I would really like to have several black mollies with a few knight gobies. My backup plan, if I can't find a place to get the knight goby, will be Indian glassfish with bumblebee gobies.

[Cliff]

That sounds like a great set-up and stock. Just remember to have more females than males to help balance everything out better. From what I have read, most people have success with 3 females for 1 male.

I'm going to be following your set-up to see how it turns out

[showmebutterfly]

That sounds like a great set-up and stock. Just remember to have more females than males to help balance everything out better. From what I have read, most people have success with 3 females for 1 male.

I'm going to be following your set-up to see how it turns out
Thank you. :)

[Cliff]

I have never kept mangroves, but from what I have read, you may need to prune them to get the look you want. Buy that I mean, if you want a more full look to the plant, you occasionally prune the top new grow to promote outward growth. If you want a taller less full look, then no puring required.

I've tried to find the source of this info but I can't seam to finds it right now. It might have come from one of my books tho. My next set-up will have mangroves in it for sure.

[showmebutterfly]

I have never kept mangroves, but from what I have read, you may need to prune them to get the look you want. Buy that I mean, if you want a more full look to the plant, you occasionally prune the top new grow to promote outward growth. If you want a taller less full look, then no puring required.

I've tried to find the source of this info but I can't seam to finds it right now. It might have come from one of my books tho. My next set-up will have mangroves in it for sure.
I will probably do some pruning. I don't want them to get overly tall or bushy. I don't know a lot about them other than they are good for water quality and that the roots look interesting. :)

[aquariumlover10]

Sounds good, I like that stocking, have you ever thougt about catching the wild sailfin mollies? They are really expensive if you buy, $28 for a pair.

[showmebutterfly]

Sounds good, I like that stocking, have you ever thougt about catching the wild sailfin mollies? They are really expensive if you buy, $28 for a pair.
I think I just want the common black mollies. I like them. :)

[sheamurai]

me too, tho I admit a preference for the lyre tails....

[showmebutterfly]

I like the lyre tails too, but they get pretty big. But I never know how to tell if the measurements include the tail or not and how much that matters.
I'm not enough of a nature lover to want to go out and catch my own fish though. lol

[aquariumlover10]

Haha, ok, I am going to catch, swamp darters, mollies, and some fish for the ponds at my church(if I can set them back up,I'm still mad and sad about that)

[showmebutterfly]

Try not to be too upset just yet, since you're not sure if it was the one with the fish and plants that got dumped. Wait and see.

[aquariumlover10]

Yeah, I'm trying not to want to boycot looking or being in the same room as the people that dumped it.

[afro123]

self control :)

[aquariumlover10]

Rofl, if they dumped the pond with stuff in it, I AM going to find out how to plug the pumps in.

[showmebutterfly]

Nitrates are at zero today, which is good. I am trying to decide if I want to work on the scape today and set up everything to begin cycling or wait until next week since we're going out of town next weekend. I'm looking forward to getting it set up, but feeling a bit lazy today....

[Cliff]

I would give it a few days at least. If the nitrates are still 0, then I would start your cycle.

Just remember to use a smaller level of ammonia (~1ppm) or your rocks can soak up ammonia as well !

[showmebutterfly]

I would give it a few days at least. If the nitrates are still 0, then I would start your cycle.

Just remember to use a smaller level of ammonia (~1ppm) or your rocks can soak up ammonia as well !
Thank you for the advice. That sounds like a good plan. And really good to know that about the ammonia! I'll plan to work on the setup Thursday then. Dosing the tank before we go out of town for the weekend will at least keep me from unnecessarily checking the water for a couple days. :)

[showmebutterfly]

Weekly tank pic. The rocks are just in there soaking, in no particular arrangement, but since I was posting weekly pics of my other tanks...

36833

[aquariumlover10]

Looks good, its always nice to get free stuff, even if you end up taking way more time tinkering with it.

[showmebutterfly]

Very true!

[showmebutterfly]

I may be able to order knight goby and orange/red chromides from gunpowder aquatic when the time comes so I am excited about that! And black mollies are recommended as dither fish for the chromides to help them not be so shy, so I can have a few of those too. :)

[showmebutterfly]

Ugh. Looked at the sight today and noticed the small print that said the knight goby is out of stock. I guess it doesn't really matter right now since I'm nowhere near ready to start stocking. But still a bit of a let down.

[gronlaura]

Very interesting setup. Keep up the good commentary.

[SueD]

Ugh. Looked at the sight today and noticed the small print that said the knight goby is out of stock. I guess it doesn't really matter right now since I'm nowhere near ready to start stocking. But still a bit of a let down.

It is worth waiting for something you really want as long as you know it will be available sometime. It's not too satisfying to compromise, then find out a couple of weeks later your first choice is available but now you have no room. Unless you're Matt, of course. He seems to always find room somehow in his tank!

[showmebutterfly]

I am willing to wait for the knight goby and possibly for the chromides as well. I know I'll be able to get the black mollies easily, so I can have some life and movement in the tank. Also the mangroves, snails and shrimp. That will help keep me entertained while I wait for the other stock to be available. :)

[Cliff]

That sounds like a great plan. Take your time and enjoy the ride

[aquariumlover10]

Sounds good, can't eait for it to be up and running.

[afro123]

Glad to see it is coming together :)

[Compass]

Hey SMB, I just reread your list of brackish fish. I skimmed the rest and this may have been brought up so excuse me if I am being redundant. The pea puffer (dwarf puffer) is not a brackish fish. Totally fresh water. Also, I wanted to add the Knight Goby (Stigmatogobius sadanundio) to your list. A really cool one and more interesting to me than the bumblebee goby.

[showmebutterfly]

That sounds like a great plan. Take your time and enjoy the ride

Thank you, Cliff. I am looking forward to taking this build nice and easy.


Sounds good, can't eait for it to be up and running.

Thank you, al. It might be up and running in the next couple of weeks enough to start cycling the tank.


Glad to see it is coming together :)

Thank you, afro! Me too. :)


Hey SMB, I just reread your list of brackish fish. I skimmed the rest and this may have been brought up so excuse me if I am being redundant. The pea puffer (dwarf puffer) is not a brackish fish. Totally fresh water. Also, I wanted to add the Knight Goby (Stigmatogobius sadanundio) to your list. A really cool one and more interesting to me than the bumblebee goby.

Hey, Rob! There's several lists going. lol I don't plan on having any puffers, but that is good to know about the pea puffer. The Knight Goby is at the top of my stocking list. I am hoping to stock Knight Goby, orange/red chromide, black molly, nerite snails and some kind of shrimp (either opae ula, ghost shrimp or red nose shrimp). Trying to find the knight goby and the chromide is proving a bit difficult, but I should be able to track some down eventually. Ideally I'd like to pick the fish out myself, rather than have them shipped, so I will be searching within a 240 mile radius from where I live for a store that carries them. But I will also be searching online pretty hot and heavy once my tank is cycled for them as well. :)

[Compass]

Your search, she is over.
http://www.gunpowderaquatics.net/gobies-and-gudgeons/knight-goby-stigmatogobius-sadanundio/


http://www.gunpowderaquatics.net/cichlids-other/red-chromide-etroplus-maculatus/

[showmebutterfly]

Your search, she is over.
http://www.gunpowderaquatics.net/gobies-and-gudgeons/knight-goby-stigmatogobius-sadanundio/


http://www.gunpowderaquatics.net/cichlids-other/red-chromide-etroplus-maculatus/
Thank you for the links. I actually have that site bookmarked. Both are currently not available. :(
But at least they have them listed, so will hopefully get more in sooner or later.

[Compass]

Thank you for the links. I actually have that site bookmarked. Both are currently not available. :(
But at least they have them listed, so will hopefully get more in sooner or later.

Oh dang. I didn't even notice that. My bad. lol when you are ready for fish, and you can't find them else where, I'm sure you could email them and request they get those in for you.

[showmebutterfly]

Oh dang. I didn't even notice that. My bad. lol when you are ready for fish, and you can't find them else where, I'm sure you could email them and request they get those in for you.
It may come to that. I am not known for having a lot of patience anyway and even with wanting to take this build slow, there will come a point when I will want it fully stocked and it will be imperative to have the knight goby so the tank doesn't get overrun with molly fry.

[Slaphppy7]

I wish you didn't have to click on each fish on the GPA website to see if they are available or not...

[showmebutterfly]

I wish you didn't have to click on each fish on the GPA website to see if they are available or not...
I wish that too! It's kind of cruel of them to get a person's hopes up and just shoot them down like that. I still like looking at the pictures though. :)

[afro123]

I did like the peacock goby.

[showmebutterfly]

I did like the peacock goby.

That is a pretty goby! Not brackish though, but pretty! I think it's neat that it says they stay in loose shoals. They must not be territorial like some gobies.

[showmebutterfly]

I spent several hours yesterday, off and on, trying to arrange the rocks to my liking. I am most pleased when I only have the 2 rocks in there. Whenever I tried adding more, it looked awkward and cluttered to me. I was going to go ahead and add the sand and fill up the tank with water, but decided against doing that just yet. We will be stopping by a largish fish store today in St. Louis on our way to a sci-fi convention in Collinsville, IL. I don't plan on getting any fish, but if I find some decor that I can't live without, it will be easier to make changes in the tank without the sand in there.

36968

[Compass]

Sweet and simple. I think a small, thin yet long piece of LR would look nice in the back, coming out around one side.

[showmebutterfly]

I cut a piece of eggcrate to fit the top, which will allow me to have the HOB on the left side of the tank toward the front. I would like to put 3 mangroves in the tank, either 2 in the back left corner and 1 in the back right corner OR all 3 in the back left corner (moving the rocks to the right a bit to allow more room for the mangrove roots).
Two problems:
Lighting - I like the lights that fit on the tank with brackets, but that will not work with the HOB on the side (I don't want it on the back of the tank) and mangroves growing thru the top of the tank. I'm not sure how I would feel about having a hanging light above the tank. I'm thinking about maybe a decorative shelf above the tank and attaching lights to the bottom of the shelf. ???
Eggcrate - perfect for cutting openings where I need them, but it's all one piece (which I also like) and might make tank maintenance difficult - mangroves growing thru cutouts in the eggcrate and lifting the eggcrate for tank maintenance disturbing the mangroves. I could possibly cut out a corner for the mangroves - as long as I don't have any fish that are jumpy - that would allow me to remove the eggcrate without disturbing the mangroves.

Ideas? Suggestions? Advice?

[afro123]

The basic hardscape is solid :)

[Compass]

A shelf would need to be tall as those mangroves will grow a bit. It might take them a heck of a long time but they are big ol trees after all. :P

[showmebutterfly]

The basic hardscape is solid :)

Thank you, afro! I will be adding some small rocks and plants after the sand is added, but I like this for the foundation.


A shelf would need to be tall as those mangroves will grow a bit. It might take them a heck of a long time but they are big ol trees after all. :P

I am may need to rethink having mangroves. I know they are supposed to be good for the tank, but if I'm going to have to think too hard about this, I'd be happy with just the roots or a decorative facsimile.

[Compass]

I am may need to rethink having mangroves. I know they are supposed to be good for the tank, but if I'm going to have to think too hard about this, I'd be happy with just the roots or a decorative facsimile.

I looked into this a while ago. I was unsuccessful in finding anything I thought looked right. As far as mimicing mangrove roots. To be honest though, what you want out of your mangroves will take years to develop naturally.

[showmebutterfly]

I looked into this a while ago. I was unsuccessful in finding anything I thought looked right. As far as mimicing mangrove roots. To be honest though, what you want out of your mangroves will take years to develop naturally.
My goal with this tank is to keep it simple. Since the mangroves are complicating matters I think they will get moved to the back burner for a while.

[Compass]

I still say you need at least one more piece of live rock. It can be super tiny. Just something to make it an odd number of rocks. All those years of art and design classes are just screaming in my head right now. HAHAHHA

[showmebutterfly]

Patience, Rob! :) If I put the 3rd rock in there that I'd most like to add it would end up mostly buried under the sand. I will place that one in after the sand. Hopefully that will help your head. lol

[darkmerlin21]

Hopefully that will help your head. lol

Alas, I am afeared there be not much to help this boys head! Lol!

:l24:

[Compass]

Patience, Rob! :) If I put the 3rd rock in there that I'd most like to add it would end up mostly buried under the sand. I will place that one in after the sand. Hopefully that will help your head. lol

Oh.... ok. I'll rest easy now. :P

[Compass]

Alas, I am afeared there be not much to help this boys head! Lol!

:l24:

You got that right!!! :hammer2:

[showmebutterfly]

I was gonna say shut yo head but sounds like it's too late. :P

[aquariumlover10]

Ihave a idea :) what about makeing a portion of it land and getting a fiddler crab? Or redclawcrab?

[afro123]

Crabs :D

Get crabs!!!

[gronlaura]

I cut a piece of eggcrate to fit the top, which will allow me to have the HOB on the left side of the tank toward the front. I would like to put 3 mangroves in the tank, either 2 in the back left corner and 1 in the back right corner OR all 3 in the back left corner (moving the rocks to the right a bit to allow more room for the mangrove roots).
Two problems:
Lighting - I like the lights that fit on the tank with brackets, but that will not work with the HOB on the side (I don't want it on the back of the tank) and mangroves growing thru the top of the tank. I'm not sure how I would feel about having a hanging light above the tank. I'm thinking about maybe a decorative shelf above the tank and attaching lights to the bottom of the shelf. ???
Eggcrate - perfect for cutting openings where I need them, but it's all one piece (which I also like) and might make tank maintenance difficult - mangroves growing thru cutouts in the eggcrate and lifting the eggcrate for tank maintenance disturbing the mangroves. I could possibly cut out a corner for the mangroves - as long as I don't have any fish that are jumpy - that would allow me to remove the eggcrate without disturbing the mangroves.

Ideas? Suggestions? Advice?

Are you absolutely set on a HOB? With a canister, you can make a DIY spraybar (very easy) for the end of the tank and still have the tank frame available for the light bracket.

[gronlaura]

I looked into this a while ago. I was unsuccessful in finding anything I thought looked right. As far as mimicing mangrove roots. To be honest though, what you want out of your mangroves will take years to develop naturally.


https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1KYPB_enUS597US597&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=mangrove%20root%20aquarium%20decor

The ones from Ocean Star are sold at a LFS near me - they are awesome looking.

[showmebutterfly]

Are you absolutely set on a HOB? With a canister, you can make a DIY spraybar (very easy) for the end of the tank and still have the tank frame available for the light bracket.
I already have the HOB and would like to use it since it's already bought and paid for. :)

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1KYPB_enUS597US597&ion=1&espv=2&es_th=1&ie=UTF-8#q=mangrove%20root%20aquarium%20decor

The ones from Ocean Star are sold at a LFS near me - they are awesome looking.
Those ocean star ones do look pretty awesome. I have one of the marina decor ones, but it's not as tall as I would like to have since the 29 is pretty tall. Thank you for the link!

[showmebutterfly]

I got the sand added, the tank filled with water, powerhead and filter running. I got a little carried away adding the sand. I was only planning on having it about an inch deep, but it's more like 2. :(

[cm12setx]

Are you sure it will be a big deal. The 29 is tall right.(blush) i know you will make it great.

[showmebutterfly]

Are you sure it will be a big deal. The 29 is tall right.(blush) i know you will make it great.
Thank you, Chris. It's probably not too big a deal, but there was a little cave where the 2 rocks meet and it's mostly buried with the sand now. I'll give it a few days before making any changes though.

[cm12setx]

If a fish wants to use it it can dig it out . My rams did this on the driftwood on the right side of my tank. And you can clean it out so you see it .

[showmebutterfly]

When I got up this morning and looked at the tank, I noticed that the powerhead had redistributed the sand overnight with neat looking hills and valleys and swirls. I turned the directional thingy (technical term... sorry about that) a different way to see what designs it would make while I'm at work. I may not need fish, I'll just watch the sand shift. lol

[Compass]

When I got up this morning and looked at the tank, I noticed that the powerhead had redistributed the sand overnight with neat looking hills and valleys and swirls. I turned the directional thingy (technical term... sorry about that) a different way to see what designs it would make while I'm at work. I may not need fish, I'll just watch the sand shift. lol

It's always fun to see little things like that. Non fish people just don't get it. lol We need pictures!

[showmebutterfly]

I didn't have time to take one this morning and regret not taking the time to snap a few. I will get a pic this evening. :)

[showmebutterfly]

This is what the sand looked like when I got home from work. I've been moving the powerhead around this evening to see how different angles shift the sand. My goal is to have good water circulation without the sand shifting so much that the eggcrate gets exposed.

37055

[showmebutterfly]

I didn't get a pic this morning, but I think I may have found a good spot for the powerhead. I'll know for sure when I get home after work. I smoothed out all the high and low spots in the sand before going to bed last night. No large pits, hills or valleys in the sand this morning. :)

[Compass]

I thought you said there was going to be three rocks..... * eye twitch *

[afro123]

And the story continues :)

[showmebutterfly]

I thought you said there was going to be three rocks..... * eye twitch *
I'll put the 3rd piece in this evening. Right or left side?

[Compass]

I'll put the 3rd piece in this evening. Right or left side?

At this point I don't care. My sanity can't take this anymore!

:l24:

[showmebutterfly]

At this point I don't care. My sanity can't take this anymore!

:l24:
Poor Rob! I did think about it when I took the pic last night, but wanted to get the sand settled a bit. :)

[showmebutterfly]

I currently have one of these in my cichlid tank. It's called a coral ornament and probably meant for a SW tank more so than a FW tank. I've been thinking about moving it to this tank - to the left of the live rock at an angle in the back corner - and surrounding it with some tall plants like corkscrew vals.

http://www.petsmart.com/fish/ornaments/top-fin-coral-wall-aquarium-ornament-zid36-17494/cat-36-catid-300071?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

[showmebutterfly]

At this point I don't care. My sanity can't take this anymore!

:l24:

Here you go, Rob. I just tossed the 3rd rock in there. I hope this will help what's left of your sanity. lol

37084

[Cliff]

Sorry if I missed this, but are you still planning on trying mangroves ?

[Compass]

Here you go, Rob. I just tossed the 3rd rock in there. I hope this will help what's left of your sanity. lol

37084

Oh yeah! Much better! thumbs2:

[showmebutterfly]

Sorry if I missed this, but are you still planning on trying mangroves ?

I haven't completely ruled them out, but I am having trouble trying to figure out how I would do my lighting if I keep them in the mix. They are on the back burner for now. I haven't bought my lighting for this tank yet and am open to suggestions for rigging some type of hanging or suspended light. :)


Oh yeah! Much better! thumbs2:

You're crazy! - one of the things I like about you! lol Hardscape is subject to change (see post #123 on this thread).

[afro123]

Insane rob is back to being sane :)

[showmebutterfly]

Insane rob is back to being sane :)

I think you're being a little overly optimistic there... lol Probably just a bit less insane. :)

[Cliff]

The set-ups that I have seen with mangroves in a main tank or sump will have them growing a good distance out of the top of the tank. This resulted in the need for separate lighting for the mangroves. From the pics that I have seen on line, it looks like they used CFL lighting or natural sunlight from a window (while blocking the sunlight from getting into the tank by painting the back pain of the tank).

Maybe you could look into those two options ?

I've never kept mangroves before, this is just what I have seen and read about

[showmebutterfly]

The set-ups that I have seen with mangroves in a main tank or sump will have them growing a good distance out of the top of the tank. This resulted in the need for separate lighting for the mangroves. From the pics that I have seen on line, it looks like they used CFL lighting or natural sunlight from a window (while blocking the sunlight from getting into the tank by painting the back pain of the tank).

Maybe you could look into those two options ?

I've never kept mangroves before, this is just what I have seen and read about

I've been reading articles as I come across them, but haven't been actively researching. With only 12" to work with from front to back, I think it would difficult to have a typical aquarium light and still have room for the mangroves to grow thru the top. Even then I'd still need another light for the mangroves. That would get looking cluttered really quickly.

Moving the tank in front of a window might be an option. Although it would mean putting the tank in the dining room and I wouldn't get to enjoy it very much since I don't spend a lot of time in there. We have plans to paint the walls, pull up the old flooring and put down new flooring in there - all that would need to be completed before I could move the tank. I do intend to put my sewing desk in a corner of the dining room once we've finished the redecorating. The desk would be by the window and watching the fish might encourage me to work on my sewing projects more and to be less stressed while ripping out seams from where I've messed up the sewing projects. I will definitely have to think about this and discuss it with the hubs. It might be a good fit.

Thank you, Cliff!

[showmebutterfly]

That dining room window is south facing. Which is great for plants. Of course there's a heat/ac vent directly under that window. Which means I can't put the tank there. Now my left eye is twitching. *sigh*

[showmebutterfly]

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/ac/feature/index.php

http://aquarium.answers.com/plants-and-algae/a-beginners-guide-to-growing-mangrove-plants-in-an-aquarium

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mangrovetrees.htm

[showmebutterfly]

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfishblog/2009/02/06/algae-and-plants-for-brackish-water-aquariums/#.VDf5kJ0o5iw

http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfishblog/2009/02/16/algae-and-plants-for-brackish-water-aquariums-part-2-adapting-freshwater-plants-to-brackish-aquariums/#.VDf5fJ0o5iw

[aquariumlover10]

Hi! Just wondering, why. Not make a light? You could use copact flourescent bulbs(spiral ones) and put litte screw in thig ona pice of wood and make a hood around that and then have a corner or whatever not there and have it raised up :)

[showmebutterfly]

Hi! Just wondering, why. Not make a light? You could use copact flourescent bulbs(spiral ones) and put litte screw in thig ona pice of wood and make a hood around that and then have a corner or whatever not there and have it raised up :)
That's a good idea, al. I was thinking about leaving the top open or just having it covered with a piece of eggcrate.
Some good news - I have heard that there's a lfs here that has chromides. I hope to go look at those tomorrow. :)

[showmebutterfly]

I was at a fish store today that had several silver mono in a large tank. Mesmerizing and so beautiful. I think I fell a little bit in love. Too bad they need about a 125 gallon tank. We have no space for a 6' tank anywhere in the house and that much weight on the floors of this old farmhouse would be scary even if the floors were reinforced. *sigh* My phone was dead or I would have gotten a video of them and just watched it over and over. :1luvu:

[showmebutterfly]

One of the local PetsWay stores had 4 red chromides. Had.

They are being acclimating to my cycled 10g fw tank right now. Over the next several weeks, while the 29g is cycling, I'll be slowly raising the salinity in the 10g QT to low end brackish. The store had them in fw. I am so happy and excited!

Here's a pic of them in the store tank:

[showmebutterfly]

I moved my java ferns from the jungle tank to the QT so that I can slowly acclimate them from fw to brackish along with the chromides. I am wondering if I should go ahead and get the black mollies so they can be acclimating too. The orange female platy will be in the mix as well.
Only one filter on the tank, rated for up to 20 gallons. The chromides are about 1.5 inches each - as is the platy. If I add 3 black mollies (1m/2f), would that be too much in the 10g? They will be in there about a month while the 29g is cycling.

[showmebutterfly]

A little cloudy, but I'm happy with this hardscape arrangement. I need to buy a heater tomorrow then I can add the marine salt and start cycling. :D

[cm12setx]

I moved my java ferns from the jungle tank to the QT so that I can slowly acclimate them from fw to brackish along with the chromides. I am wondering if I should go ahead and get the black mollies so they can be acclimating too. The orange female platy will be in the mix as well.
Only one filter on the tank, rated for up to 20 gallons. The chromides are about 1.5 inches each - as is the platy. If I add 3 black mollies (1m/2f), would that be too much in the 10g? They will be in there about a month while the 29g is cycling.

I would just qt the four. And cycle the tank. Then get other new fish in qt tank. Just dont want to see you run into any problems . If something was not right with other new fish.

[showmebutterfly]

I would just qt the four. And cycle the tank. Then get other new fish in qt tank. Just dont want to see you run into any problems . If something was not right with other new fish.
That's probably what I will do. Since BB is different for fw, brackish and sw I'll have to recycle the QT with fw before getting the mollies. That will be a good time for me to get the knight goby too in case it needs to be acclimated from fw to brackish as well.
I looked at nerite snails today too. They had some with really pretty shells, but I figure I better wait until I have some algae before getting any of them.
I am guessing that any snails and shrimp that I may want to add will need to be acclimated to brackish from fw as well.

[cm12setx]

I think your are right.

[showmebutterfly]

I think your are right.
This would be easier if stores had brackish tanks or ones with more than just gsp. But I am enjoying the challenge and doing something a bit out of the ordinary.

[showmebutterfly]

I gave the new fishies a small pinch of lfs small sinking pellets and they gobbled them right up. I was very happy to see them settling in and eating already. I had read that chromides can be shy, but these don't seem shy at all. I will be trying out some frozen brine shrimp tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to get a good pic or two and maybe a short video.

[darkmerlin21]

Congrats on the new fish! I'm glad they are well for you. You really dove right into this fish hobby with both feet.. Lol! So glad you are having a lot of fun with it though.

[Compass]

Congrats on your new fish! They look great.

[showmebutterfly]

Congrats on the new fish! I'm glad they are well for you. You really dove right into this fish hobby with both feet.. Lol! So glad you are having a lot of fun with it though.

Thank you, DM! I'm happy to be starting on my third and final tank. When it's completed I can look forward to just enjoying and maintaining the tanks.
I took a short video of the chromides feeding on the brine shrimp. I'll get that posted this evening, I hope.

[RiversGirl]

I made it and caught up on this journal! This build looks fun -- glad you are doing it!

[showmebutterfly]

Thank you, RG! It is fun and I'm learning a lot of new stuff. I'm hoping more people will try doing a brackish tank and join me over here. :)

[showmebutterfly]

Heater bought and marine salt added. Once the water gets warmed up I'll dose the ammonia. Ready to get this tank rolling. :)

[Slaphppy7]

I haven't really followed along, because the whole brackish thing intimidates me a bit...but it will be fun to see what you come up with :22:

[showmebutterfly]

I haven't really followed along, because the whole brackish thing intimidates me a bit...but it will be fun to see what you come up with :22:
I felt that brackish would be less intimidating than sw. For me anyway. The basic setup is like a fw tank, but with a little marine salt added. My plan is to do low end brackish (SG of 1.003 - 1.005) to suit the fish and plants that I want to stock. That's about 1.5 - 2 tablespoons of marine salt per gallon of water. The hardscape is more sw looking because it's what I had to work with. Plus it's kind of oddball and different which suits me. lol

[showmebutterfly]

Congrats on your new fish! They look great.
Thank you, Rob. I think they are little cuties. :o

[gronlaura]

Very interesting build. Congrats on the new fish.

[showmebutterfly]

Very interesting build. Congrats on the new fish.
Thank you, Laura. :)

[Compass]

Your tank looks great ShowMe! I like the additions. I counted, there is an odd number. Mental breakdown averted.

[showmebutterfly]

Your tank looks great ShowMe! I like the additions. I counted, there is an odd number. Mental breakdown averted.
Thank you, Rob. I did keep you in mind when I was rearranging! I am happy that you approve and that I didn't cause you more mental anguish. ;)

[showmebutterfly]

My new babies. They are orange, but for some reason look pale in the video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMkZKhVUAMc&feature=youtu.be

[showmebutterfly]

I dosed 1 ml of ammonia to bring tank to 2 ppm. I am keeping the ammonia level somewhat low since I have porous rock in the tank. FW test kit is used for testing brackish water. The salt does make the test water look a little cloudy, but the colors are still the same.

[aquariumlover10]

Hey rob, there is only 4 rocks and a decoration :)
Looks good:)

[showmebutterfly]

Three rocks and 2 decorations since the largest piece is artificial. :)

[aquariumlover10]

Oh, never mind rob :P
(Smb, addd another real rock :twisted:)

[showmebutterfly]

Oh, never mind rob :P
(Smb, addd another real rock :twisted:)
I will have to add some more later when I put in the java ferns. :)

[aquariumlover10]

Haha, ok. .

[Compass]

Y'all are terrible.

[aquariumlover10]

ROFL, do you havee add or ocd? I have both.

[Compass]

ROFL, do you havee add or ocd? I have both.

I have CDO. It is like OCD, just in alphabetical order.

[aquariumlover10]

Haha, me too, I forgot that :P

[showmebutterfly]

Since this thread has become my brackish tank journal, I thought I'd put this here for anyone interested in how I've set up / am setting up the tank.

Basic components to date:
29 gallon glass tank
AquaClear HOB filter - rated for up to 30 gallons - charcoal removed and extra biomedia added in its place.
Marineland maxi-jet water pump 900 (powerhead mode = 230 max gallons per hour)
150W submersible heater
Thermometer
Pool filter sand substrate
Marine salt
Eggcrate cut to fit top of tank
Hardscape (rocks, shells and artificial décor)
API Freshwater Master Test Kit

Shopping list:
Lighting
Additional filter
Refractometer or floating hydrometer

Stocking list:
Red / orange chromides
Black mollies (+ an orange platy)
Knight goby
Nerite snails
Opae ula, ghost shrimp or red-nosed shrimp

Plants:
Java fern

I was fortunate enough to find and purchase 4 red chromides over the weekend. They are currently in my 10g QT with our female orange platy and a few java fern. I will be slowly adding marine salt to raise the salinity from FW to brackish over the next few weeks so that the fish and plants can adjust with (hopefully!) minimal stress. Once the 29 is cycled and the fish and plants are acclimated to brackish they will be placed in their new home. The QT will go undergo a fishless cycle back to FW before I purchase the knight gobies, black mollies, snails and shrimp so that I can acclimate them slowly from FW to brackish, if necessary.

[gronlaura]

I have CDO. It is like OCD, just in alphabetical order.

This post and your avatar do not go together...........

[showmebutterfly]

Cycling update:
Ammonia is at .25 ppm, Nitrites are at .25 ppm and Nitrates are at 20 ppm.
Moving right along. :)

[Compass]

Cycling update:
Ammonia is at .25 ppm, Nitrites are at .25 ppm and Nitrates are at 20 ppm.
Moving right along. :)

Ah yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about!

[showmebutterfly]

The chromides seem to be doing well in the QT. That remind me of puppies the way they wiggle around for attention whenever I go near them. They are adorable.

[showmebutterfly]

I managed to get a decent pic of one of the chromides. They wouldn't all stay still for me, but this one posed for just a second.

[showmebutterfly]

Tested the tank this evening. I thought the results were a bit odd since the nitrites went down instead of up.
Ammonia .25 ppm
Nitrites 0 ppm
Nitrates 20 ppm

[Cliff]

I'm sorry if I missed this info, but what is your salinity at right now and are you using a SW test kit or a FW test kit ?

[showmebutterfly]

I'm sorry if I missed this info, but what is your salinity at right now and are you using a SW test kit or a FW test kit ?
Salinity is around 1.003. Using FW test kit.

[Cliff]

Are you planning to increase the salinity ?

From what I have read (no first hand experience here), most brackish fish (including chromides) need a salinity of 1.009 to 1.012. If you increase you salinity to those levels, you might need to use the SW color charts for your API test kit. The chemicals are the same, but the only the color chart is different.

[showmebutterfly]

Are you planning to increase the salinity ?

From what I have read (no first hand experience here), most brackish fish (including chromides) need a salinity of 1.009 to 1.012. If you increase you salinity to those levels, you might need to use the SW color charts for your API test kit. The chemicals are the same, but the only the color chart is different.
I was planning to keep the salinity low - around 1.005. Trying to find a happy balance for the chromides, knight goby and mollies.
Thank you for the color chart advice. I'll have to find a SW one for comparison.

[Compass]

That Chromide looks awesome. Transparent orange.

[showmebutterfly]

That Chromide looks awesome. Transparent orange.
Thank you, Rob. I think they are kind of translucent and most of their color comes from a small dot of red on each scale.
They are eating well on nls sinking pellets, brine shrimp and bloodworms, but act like they are starving all the time. lol

[afro123]

Just curious but how will you maintain the salinity level?
And what if it fluctuates?

[showmebutterfly]

Just curious but how will you maintain the salinity level?
And what if it fluctuates?

I'll be adding marine salt (1 to 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon) when doing water changes. Any evaporated water will get topped off with fresh water as needed. I will have a refractometer or floating hydrometer to measure the salinity to help keep an eye on that.

With brackish it is okay for the SG to fluctuate some, just like it would in nature where saltwater and freshwater meet and mix. Maintaining a brackish tank is a bit more forgiving that way than SW, or so I've read. :)

I am using this article as a guideline:
http://badmanstropicalfish.com/brackish/brackish.html
The fish I have chosen are from setup #2: Brackish River (chromides, knight gobies, mollies)
Quote from the article: "Around 1-2 tablespoons of marine salt per gallon of water or a specific gravity of 1.005-1.010 will be adequate for the full lives of most of these fish."

When I set up the tank I added 2 3/4 cups of marine salt (approximately 1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon). Based on the above information, I am probably a bit saltier than I originally posted - probably closer to 1.007ish than 1.003.

I am adding 1 tablespoon of marine salt to the QT every 2-3 days to acclimate the chromides and platy from FW to brackish. Once I reach 15 tablespoons total (1 1/2 tablespoons per gallon) I will consider them acclimated and ready to move to the 29g.

[Cliff]

You might want to get the refactormeter sooner rather than later. The reason being is that trying to use a ratio of salt mix per gallon of water like that can be very inaccurate as many other factors can influence your salinity such as inconsistency of your salt mix. As you are trying to hit a maintain a specific target salinity, you are going to need a very accurate way to test that.

[showmebutterfly]

You might want to get the refactormeter sooner rather than later. The reason being is that trying to use a ratio of salt mix per gallon of water like that can be very inaccurate as many other factors can influence your salinity such as inconsistency of your salt mix. As you are trying to hit a maintain a specific target salinity, you are going to need a very accurate way to test that.
I'll be getting one before the chromides are ready to go into their new home so that I can check and make sure I'm not too salty.

I'm not sure about the specific target part? I plan to let the SG fluctuate between 1.005 and 1.012.

[Cliff]

That much of a swing will not be healthy for your fish. You have to remember, this can easily lead to osmotic shock

[showmebutterfly]

That much of a swing will not be healthy for your fish. You have to remember, this can easily lead to osmotic shock
I'll need to do some research on that. Osmotic shock doesn't sound like anything I'd want to accidentally cause. :(
The articles I've read have said it's good to let the SG fluctuate because it does so naturally where SW and FW meet. But in large bodies of water the fluctuation would be more gradual. I'll need to see if I can find something more specific about what amount of fluctuation is safe for my tank.
Thank you for pointing this out to me! :)

[Cliff]

It might be different for different types of brackish fish. I know that fish that do well in a stable salinity can't handle too much more than a 0.003 swing within a 24 hour period. Just a guess / concern on my part

[showmebutterfly]

It might be different for different types of brackish fish. I know that fish that do well in a stable salinity can't handle too much more than a 0.003 swing within a 24 hour period. Just a guess / concern on my part
I appreciate your concern and that you brought it to my attention. I only know that fluctuations are not as detrimental with brackish as with SW, but no idea to what degree is safe. And I would much rather be safe than sorry so this is definitely something I need to do more research on. Especially with this being a smallish tank with less room for error than a bigger tank.

[showmebutterfly]

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Pearce_Brackish.2.html

[showmebutterfly]

I'm not having much luck finding info on this subject. The articles typically list fluctuations up to .005 being acceptable, but do not give a time period in which it is safe for that degree of fluctuation to occur. To be on the safe side, I will follow Cliff's advice of no more than a 0.003 swing within a 24 hour period.

[Plecos]

I think I will stay with fresh water for a while brackish water seems complicated to me while I am still learning how to keep my regular water right.

[showmebutterfly]

I think I will stay with fresh water for a while brackish water seems complicated to me while I am still learning how to keep my regular water right.
I started out FW and have 2 FW tanks. I love them but wanted something different for this setup. I considered trying SW, but for some reason kept coming back to thinking about having a brackish tank.
I don't think brackish is much more complicated than FW, but doing the research is since there is not a lot of information available like there is for FW and SW. I try to post links to good articles as I come across them. :)

[Cliff]

I would be interested in those links as well.

I too have found it difficult to find good information about brackish water set-ups

[showmebutterfly]

I would be interested in those links as well.

I too have found it difficult to find good information about brackish water set-ups
I have some links posted in this thread and some in the 'well this is sad' thread. I will go thru and pull out the links and repost them under their own thread so that they'll be easier to find.

[showmebutterfly]

Cycle update. Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrites 0 ppm, Nitrates 40 ppm, Salinity 1.008.
I'm a bit concerned that the nitrites didn't climb like they should have. If they did climb above .25 ppm I missed it. It's only been 12 days so I'll watch and see what happens.

[sheamurai]

Hmm, just thinking out visible, I'd be a bit more worried about sudden fluctuations too...in the wild, the fish would be able to swim around to kinda stay in their preferred zone, whereas in a tank, they pretty much have to suck it up. I don't doubt that variations are ok, but I would try to minimise the degree of change.

Interesting thread, I hope you find the information you are looking for!

[showmebutterfly]

Hmm, just thinking out visible, I'd be a bit more worried about sudden fluctuations too...in the wild, the fish would be able to swim around to kinda stay in their preferred zone, whereas in a tank, they pretty much have to suck it up. I don't doubt that variations are ok, but I would try to minimise the degree of change.

Interesting thread, I hope you find the information you are looking for!
Thank you. I've read several articles that recommend using beer hydrometers for measuring SG in brackish tanks since they will read at lower levels than ones made for SW. We found a store that sells home brewing equipment today and the hubs bought me a floating hydrometer and a large test tube to hold the water sample for testing. :)

[sheamurai]

Hmph, everything I am reading suggests that they can tolerate pretty major swings...doesn't appear to be an issue.

[showmebutterfly]

Hmph, everything I am reading suggests that they can tolerate pretty major swings...doesn't appear to be an issue.
That's what I was getting from the articles too. Although I hope to keep it somewhat stable I am happy that there is a somewhat broad margin for error.

[showmebutterfly]

Tank might be cycled already... I think.

Oct 5 - added sand, decor and water to tank and began running the filter and powerhead

Oct 13 - added heater, marine salt and first dose of ammonia

Oct 18 - Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrites .25 ppm, Nitrates 20 ppm

Oct 20 - Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrites 0 ppm, Nitrates 20 ppm

Oct 30 - Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrites 0 ppm, Nitrates 40 ppm

Nov 1 - Ammonia 0 ppm, Nitrites 0 ppm, Nitrates 40 ppm

I'm not sure why there was never a larger amount of Nitrites, but they may have spiked between the 13th and the 18th and I missed them by not doing water tests more frequently.

I've added 1/2 dose of ammonia. If it's back at zero in 24 hours I will suppose that it is cycled.

[Plecos]

Maybe hit it with ammonia again since it is slow on getting rid of it just to be safe. I was getting rid of 2 PPM in less than 24 hours before I put my fish in. My 45 gal tank is still slow and I can't wait for my new filter to get here maybe tomorrow. I have a BIO Pad ready in my 75 gal tank waiting to go in it.

[showmebutterfly]

I dosed ammonia tonight so I can check it tomorrow. I had redosed ammonia somewhere between the 20th and the 30th since I hadn't seen any nitrites. I didn't write it down so not sure what day I did that.

[Plecos]

Ever since I changed my filter over on the 45 gal tank it does not work as good. The 75 gal tank is great! I don't have any BIO Rocks on the 45 gal tank but will soon. The Neon's seem to be doing good I still have all but 2 still and I lost the 2 in the beginning. Going to pick up more fish this coming week for the 45 gal tank so I need more filtering. They will go in the quarinteen tank for a while first.

[showmebutterfly]

I'm sorry to hear that you're having problems with the filter on your 45. Hopefully the bio rocks and more filter will help! I was at the LFS today looking at neons. I need to get some more for our jungle tank. Unfortunately I had some other errands to run and couldn't get them today.

[Plecos]

I have to do 25% water changes twice a week now to keep it at zero. Never gets bad just not as good as it was with the big canister and 2 BIO Filters. It keeps the Neon's alive and happy tho.

[showmebutterfly]

It's all about keeping the fish happy. :)
I'll have to do a big water change if this tank is cycled to get the Nitrates down. And then try to match the salinity when I add the new water to fill the tank back up. I'm excited that I may be able to add the chromides to their new home soon.

[showmebutterfly]

Tonight's results: Ammonia .25 ppm, Nitrites .25 ppm, Nitrates 40 ppm.
I'm curious to see what tomorrow's results will be. Hopefully the nitrites will rise so this will start to look like a more normal cycle.

[showmebutterfly]

Tank is cycled and my little chromides are getting moved out of QT to their new home today. :-)

[Slaphppy7]

Wow, great news!...congrats on the cycled tank! :22:

Don't forget a WC to get the trAtes down...

[showmebutterfly]

Wow, great news!...congrats on the cycled tank! :22:

Don't forget a WC to get the trAtes down...
Thank you, Matt. I'm working on the big WC now. :D

[gronlaura]

37687 for the cycled tank!!!

[showmebutterfly]

Thank you, Laura!

[showmebutterfly]

The 4 red chromides and orange female platy have been happily checking out their new, bigger home.

I bought 3 black mollies and 2 more orange female platies. I wanted 1 male molly, but it looks like they are all female. The 5 new fish are in the QT getting slowly acclimated.

[Slaphppy7]

Congrats on the platys (and mollies)!

And if I were you, I'd be looking forward to this!.....*cue maniacal laughter*



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXIr71MqMjQ

[showmebutterfly]

Congrats on the platys (and mollies)!

And if I were you, I'd be looking forward to this!.....*cue maniacal laughter*



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXIr71MqMjQ
I know I am taking a big risk, but hoping that the chromides that I have and the gobies that I plan to get will keep the population under control.

I am starting to wonder if what I thought was an orange female platy might in fact be a female swordtail. Her color is awfully bright and uniform, unlike the 2 new sunburst platy I got today.

[Slaphppy7]

I know I am taking a big risk, but hoping that the chromides that I have and the gobies that I plan to get will keep the population under control.

I keep forgetting about that!...this will be fun to witness and learn about

I am starting to wonder if what I thought was an orange female platy might in fact be a female swordtail. Her color is awfully bright and uniform, unlike the 2 new sunburst platy I got today.

Get us a pic when you can, after they're settled in...someone here will be able to tell you

..........

[Slaphppy7]

AND, most importantly, keep fish that you and your family like

[showmebutterfly]

AND, most importantly, keep fish that you and your family like
Most definitely! This tank is beside my wingchair and I already love being able to look over and see the activity. The hubs is enjoying watching them swim around and hang out in the openings of the artificial coral piece.

I have some pics, but trying to adjust them so they don't post huge and sideways. lol

[showmebutterfly]

37702

37703

[Slaphppy7]

Nice pics!...does that shell deco piece affect your ph at all?

[showmebutterfly]

Nice pics!...does that shell deco piece affect your ph at all?
I don't think so.... but I haven't checked the pH lately. I have hard well water with pretty stable pH around 8.0. There are actually 3 rocks in there that are from my dad's reef tank that he had many years ago. I soaked them all for a month or more with somewhat frequent water changes to (hopefully!) get rid of anything they might leach. Now I will be sure to check the pH tonight. :)

[Slaphppy7]

Yeah, if those are real shells they will leach calcium and raise your ph....now, in a brackish aquarium, I have no idea if that will be an issue or not

You really should know your ph before adding new fish...if the LFS or wherever you get the fish has a drastically different ph than your tank does, you may have issues

[showmebutterfly]

Yeah, if those are real shells they will leach calcium and raise your ph....now, in a brackish aquarium, I have no idea if that will be an issue or not

You really should know your ph before adding new fish...if the LFS or wherever you get the fish has a drastically different ph than your tank does, you may have issues
These fish were in my QT for several weeks getting acclimated from FW to brackish before being moved to the 29g. Unless the shells have done a big number on the pH in the 29g, the water params should be very similar. But now I'm paranoid about it and don't get off work until 6pm. :(

[Slaphppy7]

Oh crap, I'm sorry...don't be paranoid about it, I'm sure it's fine....if the fish are acting OK (they sure look fine in the pics) then it's a non-issue

Didn't mean to cause you stress over it...it'll be ok, I'm sure of it

[showmebutterfly]

Oh crap, I'm sorry...don't be paranoid about it, I'm sure it's fine....if the fish are acting OK (they sure look fine in the pics) then it's a non-issue

Didn't mean to cause you stress over it...it'll be ok, I'm sure of it
It's ok. I am a bit more worried / protective of these chromides since they aren't typically available in my area and are somewhat difficult to find in stock online. I was so careful yesterday to match the salinity between the 2 tanks after the big WC and then spent 1.5 hrs doing slow acclimation to be on extra safe side. I checked everything else twice and it never occurred to me to check the pH. Since I'm stuck at work I will go with the hope that the big WC took care of any pH issues along with the nitrates. But I will keep an eye on the pH now. I'm glad you pointed out that I should have checked. I got so wrapped up in the other details that I didn't even think about how the shells might effect the water. I hope they'll work out because I really like how they look in the tank. But happy healthy fish are way more important.

[Slaphppy7]

I understand your concern totally...just check it out when you get home tonight....for now, relax and don't worry about it

I hope the shells work out too, I like them also

When do you feed?...mornings?....evenings?

[showmebutterfly]

I understand your concern totally...just check it out when you get home tonight....for now, relax and don't worry about it

I hope the shells work out too, I like them also

When do you feed?...mornings?....evenings?
I switched to evenings. I think on the same day you did. lol
I'm still adjusting to all the pitiful stares in the mornings when I turn on the lights but don't feed them.
Chromides and platy in the 29 came to the front when I turned on the light so I did get to check on them for a second this morning.
The new mollies and platies in the QT were hiding a bit / slow to wake up when I turned their light on, but I did see all of them before I left.

[Slaphppy7]

Oh yeah, I remember that now!...yeah, my fish do the same thing in the morning, they get all excited for nothing...poor babies...that's ok, tonight is bloodworm/brine shrimp night, they'll thank me then, lol

I know you probably already mentioned it, but how long are you going to QT the newbies?

[showmebutterfly]

Oh yeah, I remember that now!...yeah, my fish do the same thing in the morning, they get all excited for nothing...poor babies...that's ok, tonight is bloodworm/brine shrimp night, they'll thank me then, lol

I know you probably already mentioned it, but how long are you going to QT the newbies?
I'm planning on at least 2 weeks. It may be a bit longer. I have to check with lfs about ordering my gobies. Sort of playing musical fish a bit to keep the QT cycled. My test kit is getting a work out almost daily since I am acclimating to brackish as well as watching for illness. Too much swing in salinity could kill BB. I had to lower the salinity in the QT before adding the new fish, but couldn't take it all the way down to FW without risk of losing the BB. Slow acclimation adding tank water to bag every 15 minutes over a 2 hour period. The hubs asked every single time - what are you putting in there? Still adding water babe... lol

[showmebutterfly]

And a dose of PraziPro in the tanks for good measure.

[Slaphppy7]

Sounds like you have it under control....that brackish stuff sounds too complicated for my simple mind.

[showmebutterfly]

Sounds like you have it under control....that brackish stuff sounds too complicated for my simple mind.
I'm not sure I have it under control, but I'm hoping it's not totally out of control. lol
It is a bit challenging, but figuring it out is part of the fun. If there were properly set up and stocked brackish tanks at the lfs then that would simplify matters.
I'm mostly operating on the old saying - if there's a will, there's a way!

[Slaphppy7]

We're proud of you for giving it your best shot! :22:

[showmebutterfly]

We're proud of you for giving it your best shot! :22:
Thanks, Matt! I do hope that if there are others out there who have wanted to try brackish that my little rambling journal might be helpful to them.

[Slaphppy7]

Heck yeah, this journal is a great learning experience for brackish tanks...if I run across anyone considering one, I'll link them right up

[showmebutterfly]

Heck yeah, this journal is a great learning experience for brackish tanks...if I run across anyone considering one, I'll link them right up
Thank you, again. And it's been fun so far!
That would be great. More people = more better!

[Slaphppy7]

I think this experience would help you if you ever considered a straight SW tank, too

[showmebutterfly]

I think this experience would help you if you ever considered a straight SW tank, too
The idea of setting up a SW tank intimidated me much more than attempting this brackish setup. But I haven't totally ruled out having a SW tank sometime down the road - with a big tank of course. ;)

[Slaphppy7]

I like SW tanks...other people's SW tanks, that is, lol

[showmebutterfly]

I like SW tanks...other people's SW tanks, that is, lol
Exactly! Those are so much more relaxing and easier on your wallet! lol

[showmebutterfly]

I tested the pH in both the QT and the 29g this evening. Both are the same and high at 8.2. That may be rough on the new fish in the QT. They all ate good when I fed them. But one of the mollies was a bit sluggish. I think it may be the salinity that has the pH elevated. I'm going to try a small water change to see if that helps any. I can't do too much since a big swing in salinity will kill the BB. Poor fish. :(

[Slaphppy7]

They'll be ok...I know nothing about maintaining salinity...or the effects it may cause with ph

BUT, the shells in the show tank don't appear to be altering things, which is good

Maybe the one mollie is just a weaker specimen...they are bred "to death", like lots of livebearers are, so just keep a close eye

[afro123]

Well congo on the cycle :)

[showmebutterfly]

They'll be ok...I know nothing about maintaining salinity...or the effects it may cause with ph

BUT, the shells in the show tank don't appear to be altering things, which is good

Maybe the one mollie is just a weaker specimen...they are bred "to death", like lots of livebearers are, so just keep a close eye

Very good that the shells aren't causing pH issues. I really didn't want to have to take those out!

Fishies in both tanks seem to be doing well. I noticed the temp in the QT is lower than it should be. I need a backup heater (or two) anyway, so I think the purchase of at least one new heater will be on my to-do list today. Hopefully warmer water will perk up the new fish.

[showmebutterfly]

Well congo on the cycle :)
Thank you, afro!

[Slaphppy7]

Very good that the shells aren't causing pH issues. I really didn't want to have to take those out!

Fishies in both tanks seem to be doing well. I noticed the temp in the QT is lower than it should be. I need a backup heater (or two) anyway, so I think the purchase of at least one new heater will be on my to-do list today. Hopefully warmer water will perk up the new fish.

What kind are you going to get?

[showmebutterfly]

What kind are you going to get?
I have 2 aquatop and one aqueon heater. I think they are all 150W and work well in the bigger tanks. There's not a lot of brand selections at any of our lfs.

[Slaphppy7]

Gotcha....I forget how big the QT is now....