decisons on tank(s)

[aquariumlover10]

Ok so some of you may know this but I am not old enough to get a job so I rely on oulouance and birthday money and I can only have one tank because my parents rent and are going to buy a house in about 6 months so I am going to start saving my money but I wanted to ask everyones opinion about what you think I should do ok so do you think I should upgrade my freshwater tank to a 30 or should I get a 20 gallon saltwater tank?

[talldutchie]

Saltwater is a lot more expensive to run. Test kits, salt mix and RO water alone will cost more a month than you'd spend on a freshwater in 3-4 months.

Can't remember offhand what you got now but a 30g allows for quite a few nice setups that would be a lot cheaper to run. If I look at my own tank it costs me 8 euros a month in electricity, perhaps another euro in special food and 2-3 euros max in fertilizer. Now I assume you get the electricity for free from your parents so...

[talldutchie]

If you got the itch for something new why not do a Walstad bowl? Scrounge up a big jar of some kind for example a large cookie jar. Find some potting soil and gravel. Depending on where you live exactly you can see about getting some aquatic plants from the wild or perhaps some cuttings from someone else. A moderately sunny spot or a desk lamp with a daylight lamp and optionally a small air pump are all you need. IT's fun to set up and when done well you could house a few shrimps in it. Come moving day you drain it for 75% , pick it up and move it.

[Slaphppy7]

Nice suggestions from dutchie...but if you decide to upgrade (I believe you have a 10g now?), go freshwater, and the biggest tank you can afford

[aquariumlover10]

Ok I am going to look at prices and post in a little while.

[aquariumlover10]

Ok so here are the prices to set up a 20 gallon long tank

Grreat choice 20 gallon long glass aquarium dimenisons 30.25"x12.5"x13" $32.99

2 aquaclear power filters model a-595 $29.99

Zoomed aquasun T5-HO doublelight linear fluorescent hood 30" $74.99

R2 extreme led moonlight 1 pack $39.99

Aqua euro usa nano tank skimmer 2 $59.99

Aqueon submersible aquarium heaters 9" $32.99

Green killing machine internal UV sterilizer with power head 50 gph $49.99

Petco thermometer with suction cup $3.99

Instant ocean reef crystals 15lbs. $22.99

Api stress coat water conditioner 8fl. $8.49

Petco aquarium net 19.5"-5" $2.99

Ok I am going to have to post the rest later

[Slaphppy7]

So you are gonna try saltwater after all?

[aquariumlover10]

Probaly but I am also going to upgrade my freshwater wright when I have the money after I setup the saltwater

[Slaphppy7]

Well alright then, good luck with it...there's plenty of folks here with SW tanks that should be able to help

[aquariumlover10]

Ok well never mind about the zoomed light I can't even find a bulb for it I mean comon.

[talldutchie]

Ok so here are the prices to set up a 20 gallon long tank

Grreat choice 20 gallon long glass aquarium dimenisons 30.25"x12.5"x13" $32.99

2 aquaclear power filters model a-595 $29.99

I don't see a wavemaker nor something to measure salinity both rather essential, same goes for test kit, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and phosphate are rather important. Also, what are you going to do for water? Using tap? Ask in the salty section how succesful that is in general

Next step, what to put in there? Have a look around what they charge for live rock in your area. Few simple soft corals, perhaps a pair of clownfish and a few easy inverts. Something to get rid of the almost inevitable aptasia. That's another $150 easily.

[talldutchie]

I guess what I'm trying to say.. Considering your age and the financial position you're in because of that... Take it easy kid and don't bite way more than you can chew. Put the saltwater on your bucket list. You've got a whole live in front of you yet. You run a real risk of the sad experience of spending all your cash and ending up either with an incomplete setup or dead fish because you cut a corner somewhere.

A 10g is indeed small. A gently used 20 long would give you a ton more options. Keep your eyes open for one preferably with lights. Buy it when a good one shows up on craigs in your area and resist the temptation to set it up until after the move. Use that time to research and plan.

Don't discard the walstad bowl just yet (google walstad method shrimp bowl). They're fun, cheap and you'll learn a lot about the role of plants in the aquatic system.

[Lady10Godiva]

Also when you are ready to go salt, check craigslist for whole setups with liverock. Sometimes people have to move and can't take tanks with so they have to dump them fast, and therefore cheap.

I have bought a variety of aquarium stuff off craigslist, a couple duds, but mostly good experiences, and even one where I made money off the deal once I sent in the recalled heaters for a xheck.

[aquariumlover10]

Ok yea I am home schooled so I had to do school so I didn't get a chance to post the rest but I have to do something in a little bit so I don't have time to post the rest but they will be posted tomorrow morning.

[aquariumlover10]

Ok the light I will actually get is a
Aquasun T5-HO double linear fluorescent hood 30 inch $79.99

The rest of the stuff I will get

Seachem ammonia alert device $5.49

Fluval sea hydrometer $10.99

Tetra easy strips 6in1 aquarium test strips $16.99

[aquariumlover10]

What bulbs should I get for the hood these are what I can find that will work with my hood

Zoo med ocean sun $16.99,
Zoo med ultra sun $16.99

[Cliff]

The answer to your question would really depend on what type of set-up you want and what type (if any) plants you want

[aquariumlover10]

Its going to be a saltwater but my live rock will be from www.tbsaltwater.com so it has tons of life on it if you go and look at the catalog of organisims it shows what people have found on there rock but I also plan to have mushrooms and zoas and for the fish I want 2 firefish, 2 clownfish and maybe a royal gramma.

[Cliff]

What size will this tank be ?

[aquariumlover10]

It will be a 20 gallon long

[Cliff]

One thing that I have learned about setting up and maintaining saltwater set-ups, is there is nothing overly hard about setting up and maintaining a small marine tank, but there certainly is a little more to it as compared to an equivalent fresh water set-up, and the smaller the set-up the more opportunity for errors to impact your set-up. But you still need to take your time and read-up and learn about salt water aquariums before setting one up, just as with any other type of set-up.

I would recommend you slow things down and do a little research first and then start planning your equipment and set-up the tank. Right now you are planning on a mixture of fresh water and salt water equipment combined with a challenging stocking for a small tank. I would suggest starting first with what you want to keep and then choose the proper equipment to support that. Right now you are headed down a wrong path and it most likely will not end well for you

I would not suggest clown fish or royal gramma in anything smaller than a 29 gallon tank. Perhaps you can look into some of the gobys (such as neon blues or clowns). The fire fish will also be OK for that tank, but you have to be careful to provide enough hiding spots in the rocks for any fish you may stock which will limit you in a 20 gallon tank. A few soft coral (such as mushrooms and/or zoas) would also be OK provided you have the correct lighting for a marine set-up combined with at least OK water parameters and a good water change schedule.

The below link is to our slat water blog here. There is some more information there to get you started on some of the research you will need to start.

http://www.reefaquarium.com/category/setting-up-an-aquarium/

[aquariumlover10]

I've been researching for over a year.

[Cliff]

Ok so some of you may know this but I am not old enough to get a job so I rely on oulouance

Perhaps you should complete a cost comparison to make sure your allowance will cover the costs before even starting some research. The below are a few things to consider:

To maintain a FW tank you will need:
1) Dechlorinator for water changes
2) Food for your fish
3) Replacement bulbs for the light fixture about every 18 months
4) Test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, and pH


For Marine aquarium you will need:
1) Salt for at least 10% weekly water changes (20 to 30% if you don’t dose supplements). This can get as high as 40% (two weekly 20%) depending on your stocking level and if you cured your live live before use.
Supplements for dKH and Cal (possibly Mag depending on the quality of your salt mix), or complete larger weekly water changes to avoid having to replace some of the elements that your tank will use up.
2) food for your fish (possibly some for corals depending on your set-up)
3) RO water for topping up for evaporation
4) RO water for making salt water depending on the quality of your tap water
5) Replacement bulbs for your fixture about every 12 months
6) The costs of salt for making between 5 to 45 gallons of salt water each week
7) A good quality dechlorinator if you can actually use your tap water.
8) Test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, phosphate, dKH, and Cal (a mag test kit can be optional depending on the demands of your setup)

In addition your costs for equipment are underestimated. You still need:
-Marine bulbs to replace the FW bulbs in the fixture you listed
-Powerheads to get better water movement to keep better water parameters and oxygenation levels
-Some actual marine water test kits and not the fresh water ones you have listed.
-Additional test kits for the above listed parameters.
-A better quality skimmer as the one you select is meant for a bio cube set-up and not a standard aquarium. The suction cups used to hold the skimmer to aquarium glass will fail in time.
-A refactometer as the hydrometer can be off by as much as 0.003 which can cause a dramatic impact on a nano set-up like you are planning.

These are just a few observations which had lead me to suggest you take some more time and do a little more reading on the topic. I’m not trying to talk you out of a marine aquarium in the least. Just trying to help you understand what you are getting yourself into so your first marine aquarium will not end in failure or cost more than you can afford over time.

[aquariumlover10]

[/QUOTE]depending on your stocking level and if you cured your live live before use.[/QUOTE] the live rock is never out of water when being shipped and me and one of my parents are going to drive to tampa to pick it up when i get a tank and order it

[Cliff]

Curing live rock is not just about growing and/or maintaining a population of beneficial bacteria on it

It also provide you with two other very important benefits:
1- it will allow you to leach out any nitrates and/or phosphates if the rock was kept in water with higher nitrate and/or phosphate levels allowing you to keep your water parameters better
2 - it will also remove any nasty algae and allow hitch hikers to die off, as not all hitch hikers are good for your set-up

http://www.reefaquarium.com/2013/curing-rock-for-marine-aquariums/

[aquariumlover10]

Ok the thing is I want all the hitchhikers

[aquariumlover10]

Ok since my budget is tight and all i was thinking about getting one of these http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+9017+15493&pcatid=15493 do you think I should just hold out for about a year after I move to get a 20 gallon or just save my money and get one of these as soon as I move.I will post the equipment I would get for it in a little bit I'm sitting down and don't want to walk across my house to get the piece of paper.

[Cliff]

Save your money, take your time to complete some research, and set-up your 20 gallon the right way (and in that that order).

Only bad things happen fast in this hobby

[aquariumlover10]

Ok I think I will actually set it up and use it as a type of refugium for when I set up my 20 but again non of this will be until after I move.

[aquariumlover10]

Anything? Anyone?

[Slaphppy7]

I think Cliff has given you great advice...I'd stick to it