My experience with NLS

[Fishguy2727]

I had seen New Life Spectrum (NLS) in shops but thought it was just another over-priced food. Then I started hearing about it on forums a lot. The fish wholesaler we get our fish from at work (an LFS) carried it so I decided to give it a try. When I looked at the labels I was mad I spent money on three foods that ended up being almost the same when you look at the ingredients and nutritional values. I tried them in my mixes (at the time a large assortment of high quality fish foods all mixed up in tupperware containers). I did not see any difference and dismissed NLS as just another food.

Then I came upon an ad in TFH showing Pablo's big saltwater tank that had only been fed NLS exclusively for seven years. So I started looking into it again, this time a lot more carefully. I read the articles on the old site and read the reviews people were giving it. So I gave it another shot, this time I fed it exclusively. That is when I got the results everyone is talking about.

Before long it was the only thing I fed any of my fish. I had discus that weren't quite settling in and were losing weight. So I gave them the Thera+A and before too long they were settled in and growing like the rest. They have been fed NLS exclusively for over a year and a helf now and look amazing.

I fed it exclusively to my Lake Malawi peacocks, they are just 'assorted Africna cichlids', most of them, but are probably the best looking peacocks I have seen, except for maybe a couple pics of very high end ones online, and even then they are about on par. They are now my favorite freshwater fish.

I even feed NLS to my axolotls (salamanders that stay larval their whole life). They love it and are growing like crazy, doing great, and looking great. The goldfish in with the axolotls are also doing great on it.

I feed my 150 in a bowl. I use an UGF riser tube with a funnel taped to the top to put the sinking NLS right in the bowl. There is an 18" tiretrack eel in there that I got about six months ago when he was about 6". He loves the stuff. As soon as the tube is in the bowl he is over at it waiting for the food to sink. When it is in the bottom of the tube, before I lift the tube to let it out, he is pecking at the bottom of the tube, making it pop up a bit to let some of the food out. The bichirs are all over it, the plecos (4 bristlenoses and a gold nugget) are over at the bowl, getting in it to feed. The silver dollars dart down to grab a pellet to eat as they swim around. The Synodontis eupterus are growing like weeds and will make their way over to feed.

We switched many fish at work over to NLS exclusively. I think we have all the cichlids on it at this point. The discus settle in immediately and love this stuff. They grow faster than they have before and color up very well, meaning they sell fast. Our losses in cichlids are dropping. It seems that the NLS helps them settle in faster and get off to a better start after their stressful journey from all the way from the breeders, to the wholesaler, to our store. They also color up fast and start growing quickly, which again keeps them selling.

Even with many species that may usually require a slow progression from live, to frozen, to prepared foods, I simply offer NLS from the start. Not only do they take it btu seem to settle in even faster when I do this as opposed to starting them on those live or frozen foods.

I had a black ghost knife take to this stuff very well, he grew faster than any I have heard of a BGK doing before.

I even had a fire eel (notoriously relunctant to switching to prepared) take NLS.

My orange pike cichlids took to this stuff immediately and are growing well and very colorful.

I have started recommending NLS on forums that I go to, as well as to customers. Some are hesitant about the price, but I tell them it is worth it and show them the pictures I have on the wall at work of my peacocks and discus. The only ones that don't love the stuff are people whose fish didn't eat it immediately and don't want to let them get hungry enough to take a new food.

Color improvement is usually very noticeable and very fast. However I have found that some fish do take longer than the guaranteed ten days to begin noticeable color improvement, but before too long it kicks in.

The most color improvement I have seen is in African cichlids. NLS brings out colors in them I have never seen on any before. From a light purple iridescence over the whole body, bringing out colors on the gill plates, bringing out very detailed colorations in the fins, to just simply greatly enhancing the colors you normally see.

I think many people's apprehension about this food is that it should be fed exclusively. Most cannot go against what they have heard over and over again, that they need variety. Well, maybe that WAS true, but there has never been a food as complete as NLS before, so it may have been necessary to vary the diet to make sure no problems developed. But now we have NLS.

Even if you have apprehensions about this food, try it. It is our obligation to these animals to make sure we are doing the best we reasonably can for them. Even if your current diet has worked great for you for decades, you still need to make sure there is not something else out there even better. Just as filtration, lighting, and other aspects of the hobby have changed, so has the food. It won't hurt to try it, and it definitely could if you don't.

If you still have any doubts or want ot research it further, please check out the new NLS website here (http://nlsfishfood.com/).

[Algenco]

Ditto!! My fish love NLS and have never looked better.
If you don't see a dramatic change, they will refund the purchase price

[Fishguy2727]

Don't get a refund, just give it time. It really is worth it.

[Incredulous_Ed]

Thanks for the info fishguy! I will try NLS if I can find it round these parts, thanks!

[Fishguy2727]

There are places that sell it online if you can't find it nearby.

[Nautilus291]

I use it and I like it. Are you a salesmen for the stuff?:hmm3grin2orange:

[gm72]

I love it, too. I just got done with my last large container of OSI flake and am switching over to the grow pellets and community formula. I now only use the water stable wafers for my bottom feeders. Great stuff. A 300 gram tub of the pellets last forever with VERY little waste compared to flake.

[Lady Hobbs]

Good reference to NLS.

Read what this site has to say about it.

http://www.azgardens.com/aquarium_food.php

[MeganL3985]

Can these be fed to betta also? I would like to buy some to feed to all my fish, but i'm wondering if i'd have to buy different types, since i'll have 3 different types of fish (gourami, neon tetras and betta's)....or can you recommend a type of nls that will work for all of them? Betta's and tetra's have little tiny mouths.

[Incredulous_Ed]

hey, what's the averae price for a container of NLS?

[Rue]

I'm not debating the quality of the food...:22:

...but I'll continue to debate whether a lack of variety is a good thing...don't forget that most critters need roughage in their diet, and as far as I know pelleted foods are very low in roughage...

[Incredulous_Ed]

If anyone wants to see their commercial, it can be found, here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2278FcA3Bc

[gm72]

I am switching to all NLS, but I will still give them a "treat" about once a week of freeze-dried bloodworms or other such goody. They just love them so much!

[Fishguy2727]

Most NLS is about the same. So you don't need to worry about what it is intended for, but rather just teh size of the pellet and whether it sinks or floats.

I have driftwood in both tanks that have plecos in them, but they all eat the regular NLS (as in not the wafers). If you read through the article on nutrition on the site it might explain the roughage issue. I am assuming you mean fiber as roughage (plants, driftwood, etc.). As far as variety is concerned that is definitely covered on the site.

That video (or somethign very similar) is on the new site.

Anyone who has any doubt needs to take a good, open-minded look through the site.

[MeganL3985]

Would you recommend the .8mm small fish or 1mm community pellets for the Dwarf Gourami, Tetra combo? And can these be fed to bettas or am I better off sticking with the hikari betta bio-gold for them?

[Fishguy2727]

I would go with the 0.8mm semi-floating.

[MeganL3985]

Okay, thanks :)

[MeganL3985]

Well I looked around and the only semi-floating I could find was like $20 (with shipping) and i'm not gonna do that. So I bought the next best (atleast I think) and got flake. My fish are used to eating flakes already, so atleast it'll be good flakes. lol :)

[2manyfish]

The store where I bought my texas cichlid sells this stuff. When I picked up the fish yesterday I was talking to the owner and asked him his opinion of NLS. He said the guy who makes it is a bit of an a$$ but the food is good. Says he feeds it to all his fish.
If anything I feel I'm pretty open minded when it comes to this hobby....so I figured I would try it. I bought the 5.3oz (150grams) 3mm sinking pellets. $11.49 US dollars. Thought I would give this to the african cichlids and the saltwater fish.
The saltwater fish; yellow tang and 2 damsels, tasted it and spit it right back out. They did not show any interest at all which is very odd for the damsels as they will eat anything! I think the bristleworms ate it during the night, maybe the crab or shrimp.
The africans; yellow lab and OB peacock, took to the food right away but the lab seemed to have alot of trouble eating it or something and eventually spit it back out. Might have been too big but I'm not going to spend more money on food right now so at the next feeding I will cut some pellets in half and see if he will take them. So this is my experiment. I will give this to the africans exclusively for one month and see if their color improves. Their colors are already outstanding so I'm not sure how much more they can actually improve!
I would try it on my new texas cichlid because his colors are so washed out but he has ich right now and isn't eating.

[Fishguy2727]

I don't disagree with him about the owner of NLS.

That seems to be the only issue is that some don't take it at first. Get them hungry and they will eat it.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

i just picked up my first thing of NLS today, i got the community formula. The angelfish, gouramis, cories, and pleco all loved it instantly. But the tetras and platies keep sampling it and spitting it out. Im thinking the pellets might be a little too big for them and i know there too big for the guppies.

[Fishguy2727]

Even if they are too big they should quickly learn to grab one and hold on to it while it softens up. This is also good at slowing down aggressive eaters like danios.

[Kaga's Kritters]

when i order my python siphon i am going to order some nls and give it a try. thanks for all the info.

[~Erik3.8.07~]

Even if they are too big they should quickly learn to grab one and hold on to it while it softens up. This is also good at slowing down aggressive eaters like danios.

i noticed my black skirts doing exactly that, hopefully the rest will start doing that as well

[Incredulous_Ed]

I just got some nls. the fish like it.

[Fishguy2727]

Good. They should color up within a month (not always within the guaranteed 10 days).

Everyone should read the (long) nutrition article on the site. I am slowly making my way through it.

[gm72]

Just FYI, the NLS "Grow" formula has much smaller pellets. I got some to try with my swordtail and guppy fry. May also use it to transition the other fish that don't seem to like the larger pellets.

[MeganL3985]

I just got the notice that my NLS shipped today :) Hopefully it'll be here soon!

[Incredulous_Ed]

Just FYI, the NLS "Grow" formula has much smaller pellets. I got some to try with my swordtail and guppy fry. May also use it to transition the other fish that don't seem to like the larger pellets.
I wish you told me tthat yesterday. I bought grow and it's way too small for my rams and convict to eat!

[MeganL3985]

I got my NLS today! :) Unfortunately the fish were already fed for the day! :( So I have to wait till tomorrow to give them some, but ya better believe that other junk is going in the trash tonight! haha :)

[Algenco]

I got my NLS today! :) Unfortunately the fish were already fed for the day! :( So I have to wait till tomorrow to give them some, but ya better believe that other junk is going in the trash tonight! haha :)


Be patient, it may take a day or so to accept it, your fish won't starve, mine love the stuff!!

[MeganL3985]

My fish aren't picky....i'm sure they'll gobble it down tomorrow when I feed it to them. lol The only picky eater is my husbands betta, who will only eat flake (no pellets), so i'm sure I wont have problems with him either.

[MeganL3985]

Its only been 3 days and I swear I think i'm noticing a difference in my blue gourami's color. The red tinge at the end of the tail is now a bit darker and the blue is showing up more blue than silver. Maybe its the acclimation bringing out the colors or maybe its the food....but whatever it is I love it. And the fish seem to love the food.

[KcEE]

What food is that again? Is it only for gourami's?

[Fishguy2727]

It is New Life Spectrum. It is the best food for all fish, invertebrates, I even feed it to my axolotls (a type of salamander that stays larval its whole life).

[Ocellatus]

well there is no NLS here and no online shipping!
someone send me a handful please :hmm3grin2orange:

[deckard_wa]

Hi guys,

I know this is an old thread but I have just found something you NLS users might want to know about Ethoxyquin which is a preservative that NLS amongst others use.

I was only able to find a few companies that did not use Ethoxyquin:
Hikari
Aqueon
Red Sea

Ones that do:
Omega Sea
Kent Marine
Wardley
Nutrafin
Tetra
New Life
Boyd
O.S.I
Ocean Nutrition
Aquarium Pharmaceuticals
That Fish Place Brand


The following extract was obtained from Wikipedia

Ethoxyquin is a quinoline based antioxidant used as a food preservative and a pesticide (under commercial names such as "Stop-Scald"). It is commonly used as a preservative in pet foods to prevent the rancidification of fats. There has been some speculation that ethoxyquin in pet foods might be responsible for certain health problems. To date, the US FDA has only found a verifiable connection between ethoxyquin and buildup of protoporphyrin IX liver, as well as elevations in liver-related enzymes in some animals. It has been shown to cause mortality in fish.

It is also commonly used in spices to prevent color loss due to oxidation of the natural carotenoid pigments.


As seems to be normal for me, I am going to have to post the rest of this over several posts, please bear with me, your fish will thank you for it:


Cont............

[deckard_wa]

Cont........

Dr. David A. Dzanis
Veterinary Nutritionist
Div. of Animal Feeds; FDA HFV-222
7500 Standish Place
RockvilIe, MD 20855

Dear Dr. Dzanis;

I am writing to you about the dangers of Ethoxyquin used as a preservative in many pet foods and human foods. Since you are responsible for pet food issues within the FDA and will be meeting with twoconcerned dog breeders next month concerning the safety of this chemical, I wish to present my own experiences and knowledge of Ethoxyquin's toxic affects, first hand.



First of all, let me introduce myself; l am a veterinarian, a graduate from the University of California Veterinary Medical School, Davis, California, class of 1960.1 had a small animal practice in San Ramon, California (a rapidly growing area east of San Francisco) for 31 years and am now retired.

During those many years I saw a change emerging in the disease and illness of animals presented to me. In the early 1960s, our concerns were primarily those of infectious agents causing Canine Distemper, Feline Distemper, Hepatitis, leptospirosis, staph and strep infections, etc.



However during the 197Os and to the present time we are seeing an epidemic of chronic degenerative diseases. True, the widely accepted program of preventative vaccination programs virtually wiped out the viral caused diseases and antibiotics <medicating.html> helped stem the bacterial infections, but something else is operative here. We are now seeing both in the animal and human populations, a sharing of chronic degenerative diseases such as generalized allergies, <arthritisbirds.html>, dermatitis, congestive heart failure, kidney failure, liver pathologies, <diabetes.html>, AIDS, tumors and cancer. Also, lifespans of animals have shortened during this period.

I remember, as a kid growing up in Nevada seeing Basque sheep-herders with working dogs living to be 2l-25 years of age. These dogs were still herding sheep at that age, and the bitches were delivering litters of healthy puppies at 20 years of age! Today, we are lucky to find dogs living to be 10 years old, and many of these suffering from various forms of chronic degenerative disease. Of course in the 1 940s our air, water and food was clean and virtually free of chemicals. My shepherd friend's dogs worked in clean air, ate fresh lamb stew and vegetables and home-baked bread along with his master. As a dog show veterinarian I have heard many judges say there is a definite difference to the feel of the muscles and skeleton of dogs in Australia than those of America. The Australian dogs' muscles are firm, bones firm and strong cornpared to the "mushy" feel of the American dogs. Why? Because these animals' diets are vastly different. The Australian dogs were being fed (until recently-now there is an emergence of commercial pet food) trimmings from the freshly killed beef and sheep carcasses, vegetables and fresh grains, ours on commercial kibble and canned dog food with every chemical residue and preservative and coloring in the book! And forget all the highly touted advertising and P.R. by the pet food industry -I say put garbage in get garbage out!



In the good old days, the family pet ate from the same "pot,, so to speak, as the owner/family did, and were healthier for it Not only are chronic degenerative diseases of pets on the increase, but breeders complain of increasing frequency and numbers of reproductive problems: irregular estrus cycles, missed conceptions; stillborns, "fading puppy" syndrome, increased neo-natal deaths and malformed puppies with missing limbs, organs, hydrocephalus, cleft palates, etc.

[deckard_wa]

Cont...........

Historically, I was first alerted to Ethoxyquin's (heretofore being referred to as "E") possible health hazard to dogs, when Midge Harmer, a breeder of German Shepherd show and obedience dogs in Newark, Delaware contacted me on February 12, 1988. She related her heartbreaking experience of losing four of her young champions to liver cancer. Since she had changed nothing in her program of rearing these dogs except switching their diet to feeding ANF (Advanced Nutritional Formula), she looked into the ingredients and found "E" as a preservative. She asked me if I had any experience with this preservative and its affect on animal health. Thus started a four-year quest into finding out all we could on this chemical. I hadn't any known knowledge about or its related toxic affects to animal health until I started looking into it. I next met a breeder at the Golden Gate Dog Show in San Francisco that same year. She told me of suddenly developing 82% mortality in her puppies (Mm. Pinchers, and Boston Terriers). Out of 27 puppies born she was lucky to save 5. Many others were stillborn and malformed with cleft palates, and hydrocephalus. These problems were atypical. She had not changed any variables (including breeding stock) except for changing the diet to ANF because of the highly favorable advertising put out by the manufacturers.

I contacted the Dept. of Agriculture for toxicology information on "E." They sent me a copy from their Farm Chemical Hand-book listing "E" as a pesticide, used in fruit scald control. It is also used as a rubber preservative. I have since learned "E" is FDA approved for use as an antioxidant for carotenes vitamin A and E and the prevention of the development of organic peroxides. It is approved at 150 ppm in paprika and chili powder, and because it is used as a preservative in livestock feed, the following residue allowances in human consumed animal products as follows: 5 ppm in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals except poultry; 3 ppm in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry, 0.5 ppm in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals, 0.5 ppm in poultry eggs, and zero in milk.



We have learned "E" is used as a preservative in such widely marketed dog foods as ANF, NutriMax, Hills Prescription Diet WID (sold in vet hospitals!), Nutro, Purina, IAMS, Royal Canine USA; and in livestock feeds by Willowbrook Mills in Petaluma to preserve Crumbles for laying chickens, and dehydrated forage crops of alfalfa, barley, clovers, corn, oats, wheat, fescue and various grasses. The above information brings up the question why the FDA allows such a small amount of "E" residue (5 to .5 ppm) in human consumed foods yet allows such high amounts (150 ppm) to be used in petfood and livestock feeds? In the case of the dog, pound for pound, a dog weighs 115 to 1/lath (NOTE: this figure or word did not come through) the weight of a human (except for giant breeds of dogs) yet is consuming 300 times more "E" than allowed for people. Also many dog food manufacturers are not listing "E" as an ingredient on the packaging. Only under much investigation will they admit it. Isn't there an FDA regulation about labeling ingredients? Truth in labeling is another issue - ANF, which incidentally is one of the most expensive dog foods, is touted by the manufacturer as an "all natural formula" with no preservatives, yet lists "E" as an antioxidant which they claim to be quite safe.



Correspondence with various people revealed other dog owners breeders having sad experiences with pets eating "E" preserved dog food:



1. A breeder of Rottweilers lost a dog with liver cancer after switching to feeding ANF for 6 months.

2. A German Shepherd breeder lost a stud dog to cancer of the mouth, feeding dog food containing "E."

3. A woman had skin allergies develop in her German Shepherd fed on NutroMax ("E" preserved) and then switched to Solid Gold (no "E") with the dermatitis allergy disappearing.

4. Dr. Pia Peters, Ph.D. claims that when she was studying in Ireland for her degree in agriculture (1983-4) she became interested in a news story relating that farmers in Italy suddenly had calves born with eyes on the backs of their heads, no ears, two or three legs only, or legs developing turned backwards, etc. Dr. Peters claims the culprit was "E" in the animal feed fed to the breeding stock.

5. A breeder first of Poodles, then Collies, had been free of whelping problems; her bitches came into estrus every 6 months "like clockwork," and all whelped normal healthy litters, then a few years ago she began noticing changes in the dogs' overall appearance. She was now seeing dry, lustreless coats, flaky skin, and nose pigmentation fading. A friend of hers who raises labradors, Newfoundlands, Collies, and Old English Sheep dogs, had similar problems. Then Elaine's Blue Merle stud dog (sire of all her dogs) began drooling and bleeding from the mouth. From a biopsy, her veterinarian diagnosed an immune breakdown triggered by a virus or chemical. Her bitches who had not previously come into estrus were now delivering litters of malformed puppies; two were born without legs, tails or any sex organs. (the problems in these two kennels were traced to a change in diet fed the dogs, from one free of "E" preservative to a dog food with "E" preservative.)

6. Another German Shepherd breeder in Pennsylvania lost a puppy fed Pro Plan ("E" preserved) to a fast growing cancer in both hips.

Cont..........

[deckard_wa]

Cont........

Some of the damning information on "E" comes from Monsanto's own cautionary warnings in using and handling this product. They warn that it may cause allergic skin reactions, irritation to the eyes and skin. They advise that workers must wear eye and respiratory protection. The container of "E" has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters. "E" is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the Osha Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220). Monsanto further states the disclaimer regarding the use of "E," that "Although the information and recommendations set forth herein are presented in good faith. . . Monsanto Company makes no representations as to the completeness or accuracy thereof. Information supplied upon the condition that the persons receiving same will make their own determination as to its suitability for their purposes prior to use. Monsanto will not be responsible for damages of any nature whatsoever resulting from the use of or reliance upon information." If the company who makes it won't stand behin4 it, how can the general public accept its safety as a preservative for their pets' food and directly for themselves and indirectly as residues in human consumptive food products from "E's" use in livestock feed?)



I further learned from the Chemical Toxicology of Commercial Products (Ref. Gosselin et al., 1984) that "E" has a toxic rating of 3 (on a scale of 1~, with 6 being super toxic requiring less than 7 drops to produce death), slowly developing depression, con-vulsions, coma and death; skin irritation and liver damage.

I wrote a letter to my Board of Examiners in Veterinary Medicine, expressing my concern about the safety of feeding dogs foods with "E" as a preservative. I urged them to look into the matter and suggested that with such information wouldn't it be prudent to recommend to the FDA to ban "E" as a preservative until more definite safety studies be made? The Board responded that I was "overreacting" without scientific proven evidence that the food is the cause of problems cited and that I "refrain from voicing my opinions until there is proven scientific and official evidence that those opinions are true." The Board was complacent with the FDA approval of "E" based on a five-year safety study done on dogs by Monsanto some 30 plus years ago. That study, I found was grossly incompetent.



Let me tell you about what I learned about this so-called scientific" study by Monsanto. The study is fraught with incompetent, slip-shod methods, and erroneous conclusions that by today's standards of testing would be laughed out of the room. For example, there were never any truly controlled studies on these dogs with the only variable being the feeding or not feeding of "E" and then evaluating the health results. Instead, bitches were kept with males, some dogs were kept indoors, others outdoors, there was no preventative care of vaccination and parasite control so all dogs could start equally - many dogs in the study succumbed to Canine Distemper, Hepatitis and one from Heartworm. Many showed heavy parasite infestations, and fight wounds, etc. E" was fed on a one time a day, 5 days a week basis instead of twice daily 7 days a week which is routinely done in the "real world" by dog owners. Of the 67 puppies who were unfortunate enough to be born during this 5 year study, 32 puppies died. That's a 50% mortality rate!



The "scientists" claimed the deaths were due to "under developed and weak puppies"! Isn't that exactly what we are seeing in litters from breeding stock fed dog food preserved with "E"? To my knowledge nothing was reported in the study of the appearance of coat, pigmentation of the nose, skin health, etc. Changes like these would be an early indicator of liver and immune system pathology. Another discrepancy is the lowered frequency of feedings and relatively short time of the study (5 years vs. 6 or more years of feeding "E" preserved food and seeing cancer developing.) Nothing, to my knowledge, was reported in the study of the nature of the reproductive cycles in the bitches; numbers of missed or irregular estrus, sterility) as we are seeing clinically. Was any blood work done? Liver and thyroid panels?

I believe not. I believe it is highly unethical for self serving employees to be the scientists in charge of evaluating a product's safety manufactured by the company who pays their salaries! I would like the FDA to foster safety studies on products by independent testers other than the manufacturer of the product. Perhaps such a plan could be funded by a safety study "fee" levied on the manufacturer who is applying for FDA approval of their product. These monies could then be paid directly by the FDA to the independent testers, thus minimizing possible bias in the report findings.



While we're on the subject of product safety studies using live animals I must voice a deeply felt objection to the use of live animals in any research study. It has been proven many times that there are viable alternatives to live animal models, i.e., computer model software, tissue culture and embryo studies. Why not use the tissue cultures of the target organs affected by chemicals? These as you know are the brain, nervous system. endocrine glands (pituitary, adrenal, testes and ovaries, thyroid, thymus, pancreas, etc.) as well as those of the immune system (spleen, liver, lymph nodes, bone marrow, etc.), and are the most acutely sensitive to any toxic substance or radiation. This is where pathology starts immediately. It's months or years later before the whole organism shows signs of illness. I firmly believe all animals were created equal with man by our Creator, and that the Animal Kingdom has given its silent permission to man to provide him with sustenance, creature comfort, transportation, as beasts of burden and in the case of our pet animals, their unconditional love. Is this how we repay them? Dr. Dzanis, both you and I have a covenant with the Animal Kingdom from the day we graduated from Vet School and took the Hippocratic Oath. We solemnly swore to safeguard the health and well being of all animals and to never do anything to harm them. I have kept my promise. as I am sure you are keeping yours, but it would do well for all mankind to take and uphold that oath in today's growing moral bankruptcy, people are too willing to turn a blind eye and squeeze every cent out of a transaction at any costs. Perhaps we should rename it the "Hypocritical Oath??



Gloria Dodd DVM


If you are still with me....thanks, I'd be interested in anyones thoughts

[Fishguy2727]

Thank you for that. I have a dog and work at a pet shop that wells dog food. I feed the best line we carry, Nutro Ultra. Which does not have ethoxyquin (listed).

When I asked the Hikari representative about New Life Spectrum his quick and only response was that it contained ethoxyquin which causes tumors. My thoughts were 'how has this been shown?', 'at what concentration?', 'at what frequency?'. My thoughts were that it may have shown a 1 in 1000 tumor rate at a concentration much higher than in the food. So I asked about it on NLS's forum. They sent me to the nutrition article. The article explained that all fish meals entering the U.S. are required to contain ethoxyquin. So even though it may not list ethoxyquin, if there is a fish meal in it (maybe only if the fish meal is imported and the food is manufactured here?) then there is ethoxyquin in it. It explained that NLS does NOT add ethoxyquin to the food, it is simpy listed since it is there and it is only there because it HAS to be and already is in the fish meal.

The nutrition article explains that:

The ethoxyquin scare was from a single experiment with rats that showed a 5,000ppm concentration showed a carcinogenic potential.

Not a single study has proven any long term health threat from ethoxyquin.

"What most hobbyists fail to understand is that every fish food that uses marine proteins such as Krill, Fish, Shrimp, etc, will contain some amount of ethoxyquin, as will some fats that are added to the formula. The United States Coast Guard regulations (Subpart 148.04 -9) requires any vessel entering US waters that contains fish meal, to have the fish meal preserved with ethoxyquin. This is required by law for the safety and health issues that can arise if fish meal is not preserved properly. I personally know of no manufacturer that makes their own in-house fish meal on site, which means that if fish meal is being used in a food, any type of pet food, there will be at least a small amount of ethoxyquin in the final formula."

"In July 1997, after assessing the results of the latest study on ethoxyquin, the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine asked that the maximum amount of the preservative be voluntary reduced to 75 parts per million in complete dog foods. The FDA stated that the earlier limit of 150 ppm "may not provide an adequate margin of safety in lactating female dogs and possibly puppies." The reason being that lactating female dogs generally consume far more food (2-3 times) than non lactating females, hence an increased level of every substance in any food will occur. The study showed ethoxyquin levels of 150 ppm had no adverse health effects at maintenance levels, but that by reducing the max amount to 75 ppm it would create an additional safety margin for lactating females and their puppies."

"To date, the FDA has found no scientific or medical evidence that ethoxyquin used at approved levels is injurious to human or animal health. Also, the FDA has found no documentation of the claims of harm to any animal. Not even one."

"Please keep in mind that almost everything and anything can become toxic at high enough levels, including fat-soluble vitamins. No nutritionist would recommend completely eliminating vitamin A, B, D, E and K from the diet just because high levels can be toxic, yet this exact type of logic is what's used when most people discuss preservatives such as ethoxyquin. When used in small amounts to prevent rancidity, preservatives are valuable and important components of the diet."

These direct quotes are from New Life Spectrum's forum (http://www.newlife.ipbhost.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=337). I highly suggest reading the entirity of the preservatives section in their nutrition article, as well as the entire nutrition article. This and other information on the food can be found at nlsfishfood.com.

[deckard_wa]

Fishguy.........did you even read the posts? I saw a while back on another forum where you said something along the lines of "I'm not going to buy a food when the manufacturer can't even be bothered to research a fishes needs etc etc" about NLS and now all of a sudden it's the best thing since sliced bread?

The 2 references i posted had a statement that it has been found to cause deaths in fish (albeit unproven), and also a long testimony from a vet about problems it causes in canines.

To everyone else, please be careful, do not blindly believe what you read, take care, have a good Christmas.

[crackatinny]

I am not saying that either parties info is wrong or right here, but being the owner of 7 shih-tzu, any chance of danger to them, I would avoid.

[Lady Hobbs]

My dog will no longer be getting Purina, either. If a product can be bought without the ethoxyquin there's no reason to give food to him that has it.

I was reading in another forum not long ago that some there give their fish paprika. I couldn't believe it but they say it brings out the colors. I never tried it because I had no knowledge if it was harmful or not. Color enhancing food most likely contains paprika for that same effect.

I have no opinion one way or another because I don't know enough about it to have one but one thing for sure, I will began to do some studying on ethoxyquin and base my own opinions on it.

I do know I didn't care for my search of Ethoxyguin in google. All I could find was negative information and I don't believe research of fish has yet been done according to what I've read.

Crack, it also is in birdfeed!

[Fishguy2727]

Yes, I have changed my mind over time about New Life Spectrum. Just like others it did not make sense to me how one food could feed all those fish. I have gone over it in the beginning of this thread. I do stick with what has been proven to me over time and it takes a lot of good information for me to change my mind, it has to be proven with actual facts, not just enthusiasm.

Based on the information from NLS it seems most if not all companies have ethoxyquin in them, even if it is not listed (already in a listed ingredient). And since NLS does not add it, simply admits that it is there, I will keep using it unless more information is made available that shows actual harm from it.

This is my reply to gm72 about my feelings on the post:
"I like forums because they allow me to help others while also getting great info from people who know enough to question me. I always go by what has proven to me to be the best way. That may change based on what information I come across, as with anything and anyone hopefully. And I actually prefer it when people question me because it allows me to share all the information I have. When it develops into a debate it should turn out to be a great explanation of the information on each side, helping to make everyone more knowledgeable. Sometimes I am right, sometimes I get A LOT of good information because they knew something I didn't. If I believed everything I heard without question then my opinion would have to change everytime I read something. I think I stick with what I know until something is truly proven to be the other way. That may seem closed minded, but I think it simply requires factual support rather than enthusiasm."

I do believe I am open-minded while also questioning everything I hear, not just taking some random person online's opinion. (In reality we are almost all random people online, although we do develop trust and confidence in information from certain people.)

[Lady Hobbs]

edits done to get this topic back on track