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Automaton25
11-18-2013, 03:25 AM
Anyone know what this is? I was told he would be orange but it's not. About 3" long now, slowed down on growth considerably. Was 1/2" when I got it.

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talldutchie
11-18-2013, 05:32 AM
Looks like this: http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=905

Good looking fish though, whatever it is.

Automaton25
11-18-2013, 01:14 PM
The other one in the tank is definitely that guy. The one depicted above has blue eyes though. Are there varieties of the L144?

talldutchie
11-18-2013, 01:53 PM
Are there varieties of the L144?

That's difficult to answer since the fish that's widely known as L144 is now considered to be something else entirely.

There are indeed fish that look like an albino ancistrus but with blue eyes. There's also a long finned variety and there's even fish that combine both treats. All of these are colour morphs of ancistrus sp(4) which is thought to have been bred from one of the more common varieties of Ancistrus. Some DNA work has been done when the fake L144 started flooding the market a few years ago and it seems it was bred from A. cf. cirrhosus. Since then we know there's other surprises lurking in that gene pool like a green dragon variety and a piebald one.

However, most of this is purely scientific. Your fish shouldn't grow more than an inch at most and seems to me to be a healthy female. Feed it well with green veg and the occasional bit of frozen food and you should get 7-10 years of enjoyment from it at least.

DoubleDutch
11-18-2013, 05:57 PM
@talldutchie : i don't totally understand your post. Could you explain a little bit extra? To me the albino and the L144 are a totally different genetic thing to me. What is a fake L144? Think the L144 gets more orange if ready to mate and there are indeed more orange variaties???? Cheers Aad

talldutchie
11-18-2013, 08:38 PM
OK... let me try again and please bear with me, I've pieced this together from various sources.

Sometime in the 1990s (and bristlenose were not nearly as common then as they are now!) a single interestingly coloured male ancistrus was caught somewhere in the North of Argentina or possibly Paraguay, together with some females. This fish came to Europe, probably Germany where the famous Ingo Seidel took a picture of it. That fish was bred and the offspring spread around the German speaking parts of the world.

Around 1999, 2001 we started to see the first colour varieties of the common brisltenose or Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus appear. I know that Ingo (again!) gave a talk in februari 2001 in which he remarked of the difference between the albino and the "true " l144. http://www.aquarienclub.de/welse/seite2.htm
(he even hints at another yellow species)

Now around 2004, 2005 we suddenly see a LOT of "L144" appear on the market from one of the big Czech fish farms. (those farms also gave us L010a) Surprise all around and a lot of happy punters who suddenly got their hands on an elusive and sought after fish. Suspicion arose relatively quickly and people quickly came to the conclusion that whatever this new fish was it was different.
A few years later, I think around '08, someone was curious to take a DNA sample of the "new L144" and compare that to the real L144 and he came to the conclusion that there was no match but that the new L144 was just a colour morph of the cf. cirrhosus. Nobody but the incrowd really noticed.
So, these days we tend to see almost all albino varieties thrown in L144. We also have long fins now, green dragon and a calico which is sold as LDA016.

So.... did I succeed in making a murky story any clearer?

DoubleDutch
11-18-2013, 09:00 PM
Yes you did. Thanks !!! Only to me there od, as i said, a big difference between albinos (red eyes) and the ones with bleu eyes (two kinds ad I understand). There are some other fishspecies that show yellow fish with blue eyes (forgot the exact name of it)

talldutchie
11-18-2013, 09:12 PM
That puzzles me a bit too. Goes even further because on the "fake" l144 you sometimes see parts of the original pattern very vaguely.

Automaton25
11-19-2013, 01:50 AM
Thanks for the input guys. I recently really started enjoying plecos. My second one appears to be a "truer" representation of the L144. He has the brown eyes, reddish circle on his back and a little on the sides. Great bristles on him as well! Are there any other varieties you know of that remain small?

talldutchie
11-19-2013, 05:44 AM
No, al varieties grow to the same size more or less. But there's species that stay smaller. Problem is, some ancistrus cross breed and you don't really want that.

The genus Peckoltia tends to stay small and you should be able to keep two of those in your current tank provided there's enough caves for everyone

toddnbecka
11-19-2013, 06:20 AM
IME L144 are generally much slower-growing than the other color varieties of the common BN. I now have 2 different lines of super red, got breeding stock imported from Germany a couple years ago then last year a few super reds turned up among the brown, albino, and calico fry from a tank containing browns I'd bred and raised. Those browns were offspring from a trio that had produced mostly brown and roughly 1/4 albino fry. The calico and super red fry were unexpected. Still haven't seen any 144-looking fry among any of my stock, but I have seen a few paler than normal super reds.

DoubleDutch
11-19-2013, 06:42 AM
Do we agree the true L144 has blue eyes? If so i think that we can say ????!
- albino's : yellow / red eyes
- L144 : yellow / blue eyes
- false / untrue L144 : yellow / black-brown eyes
- super red : colorvariation of the last??


There is a smaller BN : Ancistrus Claro.

Cheers Aad

talldutchie
11-19-2013, 08:54 AM
I think that's a decent summary.

I'm aware of A. Claro. To the best of my knowledge I'm the only person in the Netherlands who's got them to breed.

DoubleDutch
11-19-2013, 09:46 AM
Huh ????? Are you Jeroen then?