Help! Possible Velvet or something else? API Super Ick Cure?

[thenewguy]

Hi Everyone,

As my user name suggests, I am new to keeping aquariums. My girlfriend bought me the tank three months ago, and I have been loving the experience so far, however it has definitely had its frustrating moments! This is my setup.

25 gallon planted aquarium.
Filters: 2 Aquaclear 20s.
Substrate: Fluorite.
Hood and light: Yes.
Aeration: Yes.
CO2: No
Temperature:25C, 77F.
PH: Between 6.8 and 7

Fish:
1 male Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami (Trichogaster lalius)
1 pair Bolivian rams (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus)
2 Siamese Algae Eaters (Crossocheilus oblongus)
2 Dwarf Otos (Otocinclus macrospilus)
1 pair Gardneri Killifish (Fundulopanchax gardneri)
1 pair Cape Lopez Lyretail Killifish (Aphyosemion australe)

Yesterday I noticed that my male Aphyosemion was spending an unusual amount of time sitting at the bottom of the tank, occasionally pacing back and fourth. He is an orange morph, so it has been hard for me to see signs of velvet on him, but I think I noticed some unusual gold spots amongst his normal spotting on his dorsal side. I then noticed one of my Siamese Algae Eaters and my female Bolivian Ram looked a lot more dull and pale than usual, the algae eater was being pretty inactive, and the ram much more timid than her usual feisty self. The algae eater even rubbed himself against my plants a few times, so I started reading various forums such as this one and began suspecting velvet. When I tried turning the lights off and shining a light on them, I couldn't tell if the reflective color I was seeing was from velvet or from the natural sheen of the fish. This morning I decided to medicate with API Super Ick Cure just in case, since I read that it treats velvet as well as Ick. When I got home from work this evening I noticed that the other algae eater and my male ram also started looking quite dull and gray, and the male ram was rubbing against plants. The original two that I suspected were sick looked much duller than this morning. If this is velvet and if Super Ick Cure works shouldn't this have gotten a little bit better from this morning instead of worse?

So far none of the other fish seem to be noticeably affected.

My question is this:
1) Is this Velvet or stress or some other disease?
2) Will Super Ick Cure do the trick if it is velvet? Should I stop medicating?

I tested the water multiple times with the API Freshwater Master Test Kit before I started medicating, and everything looks pretty normal. Sometimes when I check the ammonia levels fluctuate a little between 0 and .25, but other than that everything seems to be at 0.

I was able to take two pictures of the killi, two pictures of the male ram, and one of the siamese that I am attempting to upload here.


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Please help, I really don't want to lose any fish!

[DoubleDutch]

Really think it has to with ammonia. That should be 0,0 and nothing else. Did you test for nitrite as well? Did you clean your filter / are you feeding a lot? Two possible causes of ammonia in a cycled tank. Waterchanges / no extreme cleaning of filters / small amaounts of food in that case.

[thenewguy]

Really think it has to with ammonia. That should be 0,0 and nothing else. Did you test for nitrite as well? Did you clean your filter / are you feeding a lot? Two possible causes of ammonia in a cycled tank. Waterchanges / no extreme cleaning of filters / small amaounts of food in that case.

So are you saying the water is just irritating them and it's not velvet? Or that it is velvet and the ammonia caused it?

Yes I tested for nitrite, it was 0. I feed once a day, and usually all the food is gone within 2 minutes. There doesn't ever seem to be too much food sitting at the bottom after a feed so I don't [I]think[I] I'm feeding too much but I'm not sure. I recently dumped the filters out because the impellers were getting stuck, but I didn't scrub them or anything, and I do weekly 20% changes. Should I do anything differently?

[madagascariensis]

Have you observed any kind of territoriality or aggression between the fish? You have a very large number of territorial species in a fairly small space, and everyone of your stock except for the otos can potentially act out against other tankmates.

[thenewguy]

No, at least not while I have been home watching them. The Siamese algae eaters occasionally chase each other after I feed, and the Dwarf Gourami will hug the walls and flare if another fish interrupts his routine, but I haven't seen any serious aggression. The killifish keep to themselves.

[Byron]

I have twice battled Velvet, and I do not believe I am seeing it on the fish in these photos. But I admit it may just be the photos. Flashing (fish rubbing on objects) certainly suggests an external protozoan like ich or velvet.

On the ammonia, that is a possibility, but I see live plants and with plants you should not be having ammonia above zero, ever. Plants can take up an incredible amount, and while the stocking here is certainly a real problem, it is not overstocked in terms of bioload. Are you sure the ammonia is above zero? Which test kit?

I would do a major water change, 2/3 of the tank volume. Use a conditioner but no other substances. One benefit of this is to get rid of the ich medication as that will add more stress by just being in the water, and I don't think it will benefit anyway. Second benefit is the amazing curative effects of massive water changes; whenever I see trouble, and can't immediately ID it, I do a major water change to help the fish.

I would also raise the temperature to the mid 80's, around 86F. If this is ich or Velvet in the initial stages, this will help speed it up (and kill ich).

I can't say this is solely the result of interaction between non-compatible species, but the fish stocking certainly is a problem. The Siamese Algae Eaters need to be re-homed fairly soon as they will become a real issue; at 6 inches and being territorial, there is insufficient space--they need at least a 4-foot tank.

I am not an expert with killies, but I believe you have mixed species that should not be mixed. And a 25g tank is not much space, at least to the fish.

Byron.

[fishmommie]

agree with the water change suggestions. you most likely should be routinely changing out your water at 50% weekly. Make certain that you add enough water conditioner (dechlorinator) to manage the entire tank, not just the water you replaced.

If you do up the heat as suggested above, make certain you've removed the majority of the medication you added today. meds and heat don't mix and it would seem that since you are uncertain what you're dealing with the wiser choice would be heat for at least a week.
good luck. those are nice fish, hope all goes well.

[thenewguy]

Just thought I would give an update. I was trying to battle this for a while, then a few weeks ago I noticed that my fish were being unusually active at night, so I checked, and it turns out the otos were sucking on the sides of the other fish while they were sleeping/resting! I tried increasing the number of algae pellets they get, tried feeding them blanched veggies like other forums suggested, but nothing worked and I ended up deciding to move the otos to their own tank. Several days later everyone seems to be doing well, are getting their color back, and no longer flashing, so it wasn't ich or velvet after all.

[fishmommie]

Holy cow. I've heard of Plecos sucking on discus but not ottos sucking on any fish. Anyone else?
Thanks for the update. this is good to know.
Glad all is well now.