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Greentoads41
10-29-2013, 11:38 PM
Hi All...
A little while ago, I got around 30 cherry shrimp (all hail lord korith). After about a month, they became established in my ten gallon tank, and they have been widely successful in breeding and interacting around the environment, with the only other inhabitants being a couple assassin snails (maybe 3, i could have sworn I saw an offspring), an amano shrimp, and a couple left over ember tetras. However, the tan gallon tank is also not very good to show off the colors of these shrimp: it has LED lights, planted, white sand, and not much shade. So, also awhile back, around two months, I started up a little acrylic 2.5 gallon with a small sponge filter and heater, low light CFL, java moss and marimo moss and also some suesswassertang (plants just kinda floating around in my ten gallon), black substrate and a centerpiece rock. I took the reddest cherries from the 10 gallon (attempted select breeding) and put them in (there's about 8 right now) and the result is quite impressive: they've colored up very nicely, and the red is amazing. However, also in the tank is a couple hitchhiking pond snails, and also a few "bugs". I had copepods (or maybe daphnia), flatworms, and nematodes galore a little while ago, so I fed less and so now there are less of them. No Hydra as far as I can tell. I read on planetinverts that they are all harmless. They are still present though.

And the Problem! The cherries in the 2.5 aren't breeding, but other than that they are thriving. Over the past few weeks, I have noted a few shrimps become saddled, then berried, then lose their eggs. It doesn't make sense to me...Do the babies hatch and die perhaps, or do the eggs get lost inside the shrimp? I have treated the 2.5 with medication around 8 months ago before the tank was set up, with "fungus guard" - the back of the box says the active ingredients are Nitrofurazone, furizolidone, and potassium Dichromate, none of which appear to be, from my research (google), copper based. Maybe, too, it is the bugs in the tank.
I want the reddest shrimps to breed in the 2.5 gallon. I have witnessed the shrimps in there lose eggs before. Again, they have no trouble colonizing in the 10 gallon. Maybe I just need to give them more time?
Help please? Thanks! Pictures may be available on request. It's a little hard for me to get a close up of the flatworms/planaria, but I can try.

SueD
10-30-2013, 12:47 AM
I cannot believe you are having this same problem. I have the same shrimp (from Korith) which I added to my Spec V with some boraras urophthalmoides and just a few to a 2.5 gallon which had one guppy fry (since removed) that I had sucked up when cleaning another tank. These all colored up beautifully in both tanks. The Spec V is now overrun and I have moved just a few more to the 2.5 gallon where there has been no shrimplets. But there were berried shrimp and my most brilliant reds are in the smaller tank while those in the Spec are a little more faded.

I have a few pond snails in the 2.5 gallon but not in the Spec. Both tanks also have those tiny flat ramshorn snails, but in both tanks, the snails are minimal. (I added an assassin to the 2.5 gal for the pond snails - they are useless against the tiny flat snails. I don't have any of the other "bugs" you mentioned and neither tank has ever been medicated. Lots of Taiwan moss and Subwassertang along with crypts, hygro and something else I can't remember in the Spec V and just Taiwan moss/crypt/hygro in the 2.5 gal.

Both are fed the same algae or veggie wafers or shrimp pellets. Those in the Spec V probably get some of the flake food remaining from the boraras. Will be interested to see what comments, if any, you may get. I have to start cleaning some out of the Spec V but my LFS is looking for those that are "really red". So I was waiting to see what would come of those brilliant ones in the 2.5 gal.

Greentoads41
10-30-2013, 03:41 AM
I have to start cleaning some out of the Spec V but my LFS is looking for those that are "really red". So I was waiting to see what would come of those brilliant ones in the 2.5 gal.
My feelings exactly. How strange that you are having this occurrence too! How long has been it been since you set up that 2.5?

SueD
10-30-2013, 03:58 AM
It's been several months anyway - last spring, early summer I think when I first got the shrimp. I put some in both tanks at that time but most of them went into the Spec V. Since there was no action in the 2.5, I added another 3 or 4 about a month ago. Was really surprised to see how red a couple of them became.

When I first got these shrimp, I was also so pleased at how red they were. They really are great shrimp. So I've been thinking that maybe some of the color is being lost because of how overrun the Spec V is. I'm going to try moving a few more this weekend and see what happens. I thought maybe the guppy fry that had grown quite a bit in the 2.5 gal was getting the shrimplets which is why I moved her back to the guppy tank and added more shrimp.

I have bred shrimp in this 2.5 gal tank a couple of years ago so I know it's possible. They seemed to slow down just when it got a little too crowded which is why I only put a few in there. But nothing is stopping the ones in the Spec V so far (LOL) and I have no where else to move them right now without them becoming snacks. I don't want to do that.

Greentoads41
10-30-2013, 04:45 AM
But nothing is stopping the ones in the Spec V so far (LOL) and I have no where else to move them right now without them becoming snacks. I don't want to do that.
Same here. The only other option for select breeding these guys would be to take all the lesser colored ones and put them in the 30 gallon with all the tetras...but I am not that cruel! I love the shrimp, they are quite the characters. But If only they were redder!
Hope I get some replies tomorrow lol, and our problems will be solved, if not merely archived. thumbs2:

korith
10-30-2013, 06:46 AM
Too many reasons why the shrimp may be not breeding regardless of tank size. What kind of water are you working with? Sometimes berried shrimp will drop their eggs when they get stressed out. Stress usually due to the water quality/parameters or some other factor in the tank. Sometimes the younger shrimp that are berried for the first time might drop eggs as well.

I've noticed that over time the types of food I feed can affect the color to some degree. Hikari crab cuisine and algae wafers are mainly what I feed the shrimp, seems to work well for them. Mainly I try to vary what I feed them, fairly sure that is playing a huge part in how well they do. For the substrate I find a darker one seems to work better to show off their colors.

P.S. Don't feel bad about feeding the shrimp with traits you don't like to the tetras. I put shrimp I cull into the discus tank:p Shrimp do not always breed true, red cherry shrimp are actually Neocaridina heteropoda. Over time folks have bred them over many generations to bring out certain colors like red and yellow. In the wild the color is more of a brownish color. It is possible for a wild type to still show up sometimes.

talldutchie
10-30-2013, 10:58 AM
These shrimp are prolific breeders because so many things eat them.

As to the original question, are both tanks on the same temp? If so what is it? Do the ones in the small tank moult? Are there some hiding places for when they do?

SueD
10-30-2013, 11:13 AM
I just use my tap water with Prime for all of my tanks with no issues. These two tanks are both in my kitchen and given their size water changes are easy. The Spec V has Tahitian Moon Sand as substrate and the 2.5 gal has Eco Complete, both dark, although with all of the plants you don't even see much of it.

It was just odd that as soon as I moved a couple more from the Spec to the 2.5 gal, the color on those few was back to that bright red I had in the beginning. Don't get me wrong, the hoard I have in the Spec V are doing great and are still colored up - just not as solidly as they were. They swim all over this tank among the fish and when I drop in an algae or veggie wafer, it's amazing to see them go at it. The fish hover above waiting for any pieces that might escape.

Sandz
10-30-2013, 03:45 PM
My best success in breeding RCS have been in a 5gal bare bottom tank with a bunch of javamoss, light on 24-7 and cloudy water filled with ground algae waffers. I went from 10 shrimp to over 150 in under 3 months. Its unheated and kept open top in a garage here in florida so it stays around 75deg.

Greentoads41
10-30-2013, 10:25 PM
The temp on the 2.5 is about 74 degrees fahrenheit, and the temp on the ten gallon is about 76.
pH is=n both tanks is 8.4. Yes, it is quite high.
About the stress that korith noted, that reminded me of something...when I put more water in during water changes, I'm not really delicate about it. I take out less than half the tank's volume, but when I put dechlorinated (with prime) water in, I just pour it all in in one big tidal wave, perhaps causing some stress. I'll try to do better next time, perhaps using a plate or something. The part about younger shrimp, losing the eggs after being berried for the first time, is a possibility too.
Yes, the shrimp have molted before in the 2.5, and for that they can hide under the moss, and even get pretty well shaded and covered under the centerpiece rock.
Thanks for the replies! Keep them coming thumbs2:

talldutchie
10-31-2013, 06:20 AM
In my experience optimal breeding temp is 25c which is... err...77F.
Splashing them around is not something shrimpe enjoy because they're not that big on swimming so stopping that is probably a good idea. Use a plat or, if possible, put the bucket above tank level and syphon it in.

korith
10-31-2013, 09:47 AM
The temp on the 2.5 is about 74 degrees fahrenheit, and the temp on the ten gallon is about 76.
pH is=n both tanks is 8.4. Yes, it is quite high.


Temperature range you have them at is fine. pH is high. You could help lower pH naturally using peat moss, a large chunk of driftwood, or using ro water. There is that ideal temp and pH range you want to keep rcs at, when you get to the extremes of that range you issues with them breeding.


To avoid causing too much chaos when putting in new water, in the smaller tanks I'll hold a small plastic container or bowl in the tank and pour water into that.

SueD
10-31-2013, 11:30 AM
I use a colander over the tank when filling. It's a gentler way of adding water.

korith
10-31-2013, 11:43 AM
I use a colander over the tank when filling. It's a gentler way of adding water.

Nice idea, never thought of that.

Greentoads41
10-31-2013, 12:51 PM
Temperature range you have them at is fine. pH is high. You could help lower pH naturally using peat moss, a large chunk of driftwood, or using ro water. There is that ideal temp and pH range you want to keep rcs at, when you get to the extremes of that range you issues with them breeding.

I've had no issues whatsoever in breeding them in the ten gallon though, but do you think the high pH is just slowing down the breeding process in the 2.5? Causing them to lose more eggs early on, coupled with the stress of pouring new water in abruptly every week?

korith
10-31-2013, 02:26 PM
I've had no issues whatsoever in breeding them in the ten gallon though, but do you think the high pH is just slowing down the breeding process in the 2.5? Causing them to lose more eggs early on, coupled with the stress of pouring new water in abruptly every week?

I think it's a combination of those 2 factors. I think pH 6-7.5ish is the range most sources mention. There might be a long term effect at keeping them at too low or too high a pH.

Sandz
10-31-2013, 05:11 PM
I use an airline tube with a gravity feed from a large water bottle... Its the most non-intrusive way but it takes 5min

Greentoads41
11-01-2013, 12:59 AM
I think it's a combination of those 2 factors. I think pH 6-7.5ish is the range most sources mention. There might be a long term effect at keeping them at too low or too high a pH.

Perhaps, but is it safe to put peat moss of other pH lowering devices (not chemicals) in a tank that small? I'm glad that I believe we have touched on the cause thumbs2:

aquariumlover10
02-07-2014, 03:15 PM
it maybe a problem with the temp or there aren't any males in the tank.

Greentoads41
02-09-2014, 03:49 PM
I thought heater might be an issue :\ but my shrimp actually bred in December, and have bred probably 4 or 5 times since then! I must have been impatient. Plus, the collander thing seems to work really well too :)