First Betta, have Qs

[Betta Mom 2]

Hi friends-

We just received a betta - a party favor (grrrr!) - unplanned, an accident ;-)
and we certainly want to give it better care than it's current vase. So I have been doing research and talking to the 2 guys at our lfs and lots of the advice is conflicting.

We happen to own a brand new 2.5g. Mini Bow, so although it may not be ideal, that is probably what we will use. We may also have a 4 gal. that would have to use the filter from the mini bow. One guy tells me they like small environs, the other guy tells me space is good. So ????????

One thing to keep in mind is that we will do what we can to keep Sir Isaac Fish happy, and save him from his cold vase. This includes things like proper feeding, heating, filtering, exchanging some of the water once a week, etc. We don't mind an some initial outlay to set this up. But, we are unprepared to get into advanced fish care, such as measuring and balancing chemical levels, and etc. We only kept him because we were told they need minimal care.

Given that, my first question is:
Can we put real plants in there? Just a few? Or is a bunch better? I love the idea of a natural-ish environment. But that may be getting into an entire balanced environment, which is cool, but I think beyond our scope.

I have more Qs, such as about the gravel, etc. but first I think we need to figure about live plants.

Thanks!!!!
Lori

[Drumachine09]

Depending on the substrate/lighting of the tank, a few live plants wouldn't be a problem.



Another thing. Don't let anyone tell you Bettas only like small spaces. Thats a big crock-o-crud.

The more space the better.

[Betta Mom 2]

Depending on the substrate/lighting of the tank, a few live plants wouldn't be a problem.

The mini-bow has a 15 watt tube. We are leaning toward the mini-bow, since we have the light and filter.

About the substrate - We will put down some kind of gravel TBD. I gather more with live plants, less without. So, what else am I missing?

One LFS guy told me no live plants OR lots of live plants. I am so confused!

[Drumachine09]

With that lighting, and maybe a chunk of a plant tab every week, you could do some simple plants. Here are a few low light plants:

Anacharis
Java Moss
Java Fern
Anubias
Corkscrew Val

I've seen those plants in Minibow betta tanks before, and I didn't see a nutrient rich substrate, so I'm guessing they are ok.

I'll wait for the more plant-savy members to confirm this.

[squirt_12]

i agree with everything that drum has said.

But when you set up the tank don't forget that you have to cycle it.

[tropfish]

Acutally squirt, for smaller tanks with just a betta a cycle isn't required ad long as you do 20% w/cs every three days (you have to always do them anyway tho)

[blu]

It is best to cycle your tank first which means you will have to test the water parameters(sounded like you didnt want to but it would be best). And a 2.5 gal is perfect for a betta but going smaller than that should only be temporary. I also think your betta will enjoy a few live plants more because the like to rest on them and there is no danger of torn fins like with plastic ones but silk would be a good alternative to live if you decide not to use live.

edit: tropfish got here before me but I forgot about what he said and as far as I know is true so cycle isnt necessary if water quality is kept up but only in a small tank. And what kind of filter does the minibow come with?

[Drumachine09]

I don't see why people say cycling in a small tank isn't necesarry. The toxic chemicals (ammonia, trits, and trates) build up exponentially faster in a smaller tank.

It would be irresponsible to not cycle a tank.

Just save your self the trouble and cycle it.

[SkarloeysMom]

Cycling the tank will make it easier on you and the fish. If you don't cycle you will at a minimum need to buy an ammonia test and do a water change (50-75%) as soon as you see an ammonia reading. Once you see how often your ammonia starts going up you could probably just do your water changes on that schedule. It could be that you that you would need to do a water change 2 or 3 times a week. If your tank is cycled you could probably do with once a week or 10 days on the water changes.

A 2.5 MiniBow is plenty of room for a young Betta. I have one myself and my betta seems to love it if bubble nests are a good indicator of happiness. If your betta grows fairly big you might want to move him up to the 4 g. A heater is a good idea. They like their water around 78-80 degrees.

Live plants in a 2.5 MiniBow will most likely be difficult because the light from the hood is insufficient to grow them successfully. If you do not want to hassle much with this tank then I'd go with fake plants.

[tropfish]

I don't think ti's irresponsible. In a 2.5g ideally you should do a 20% w/c every 3 days and a 100% once a week, this would definatly keep ammonia extremely low. It's always a good i dea to cycle, i get what youre saying. but for a small tank with one fish that doesnt produce alot of waste, its not necessary. (this is all from ultimatebettas.com. I'm following what they had said, and boy do they know their stuff!)

[SkarloeysMom]

I think you can keep a betta in a 2.5 uncycled just fine as long as you keep up your water changes. It might entice a newbie to cycle by saying that it would save them time on maintenance in the long run if they have already said they don't want to have to put that much time into upkeep.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it irresponsible to keep a betta in a 2.5 uncycled. I believe Megan keeps Puffin just fine in that same tank uncycled. If newbies know the options they can choose what's best for them based on what time they have to put into the care of their fish.

Personally, I think cycling is the way to go even with a small tank just because I would be constantly worried about ammonia problems and if something went wrong I'd feel eternal mom-guilt about it. With my first betta I didn't cycle and almost killed him. I learned a lot from that unfortunately experience. Wish I could have learned it the easy way though, by reading the eBook on this site and learning all I needed to know first. Oh well, can't change the past.

[Betta Mom 2]

Oh my goodness - this plot just thickens and thickens! And so does the conflicting info!

Well, here is where we are at, as of today. I just HAD to make some decisions and get something going, because our house is about 62, and he isn't eating.

First - decided on the 2.5 minibow. To outfit the larger tank (store says it's a 5.5g.) I would have needed to buy a hood w/light and a filter - $55 we decided not to spend. The mini bow comes with a Whisper 2-5 filter.

I spent most of the day trying to chase down an appropriate heater - short story is I ended up with a Tetra Whisper Heater, 50 watts, rated for 2-15g.
It is supposed to keep the tank at a constant 78, but, if my new $3 Pacific Coast Thermometer is working properly, it is keeping it at 75, and I might return it. What I liked about it was its small size - the other ones, even 25w ones, are so huge for this little aquarium.

I got some natural-colored gravel, and put in about an inch, but less under the filter. LFS said I could add a few plants (low light) after a couple of weeks. But, I couldn't resist a package of "betta bulbs" which I forgot to plant, but I will plant now. Plus a cavey stone tunnel thing, a plastic flower that isn't supposed to hurt the fins, and another plastic soft-branchy thing - I took 2 branches off and floated them.

I added 1/4 t. of the conditioner that came with the mini bow, and since temp is up, are we good to go? I put the fish in a large clear container with a couple of cups of his old water, and every 1/2 hr or so, I add a little of the new water. When it's mostly new water, I plan to float him in a baggie for awhile, to get used to the warmer temp, and then release him into it. I bet he will really like the new environs, esp. the temp.

Um - I just read the mini-bow box - am I supposed to wait a day until putting him into the new tank? Why? Since he's already in limbo, should I keep him in the pitcher until tomorrow night, or just go for it tonight?

Now - about this cycling - pardon my ignorance, but what is it exactly?

Plus, I get how to do partial water changes 1-2x/wk, but how is a full change done?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lori

[Futureboy]

you shouldnt do a 100% water change or clean

to keep a tank clean and looking good all you need to do is a partial water change scrub algue if you have any, and vacume the gravel

your betta should love his new home

[Betta Mom 2]

you shouldnt do a 100% water change or clean

to keep a tank clean and looking good all you need to do is a partial water change scrub algue if you have any, and vacume the gravel

Now, that IS good news!

[Betta Mom 2]

OK - so now I have read a little about cycling. Sounds good, but it is more than we can do now. Our over-riding concern is to get Sir Isaac to the warmer tank ASAP. We have not seen him eat in over a week. I hope the warmer temps help - I think they will.

[Drumachine09]

I don't think ti's irresponsible. In a 2.5g ideally you should do a 20% w/c every 3 days and a 100% once a week, this would definatly keep ammonia extremely low. It's always a good i dea to cycle, i get what youre saying. but for a small tank with one fish that doesnt produce alot of waste, its not necessary. (this is all from ultimatebettas.com. I'm following what they had said, and boy do they know their stuff!)


I guess I am the only one who sees the asininity in the concept of the non-cycled tank. What levels build up in those three days? Ammonia. With no Nitrosomas Marina, no ammonia will be converted into nitrites. That means, the ammonia sticks around in the tank. That ammonia is not only toxic, but it burns the fishes gills, leading to depreciated gill function. In those three days, ammonia WILL build up. Fish poop. Thats a fact.

The fact of the matter is, you are knowingly submitting a creature that is entrusted into YOUR care into an environment that you KNOW will do harm to it. If you can perform a simple process that will take the harm to the animal out of the equation, why would you choose otherwise?

Doing something wrong and not knowing its wrong makes you ignorant. Doing something wrong when you KNOW its wrong passes the line of ignorance, and passes into the realm of irresponsibility.


I've said my part. Whether or not you choose to accept that, is your own responsibility.





Sorry to hijack the thread, but it might shed a bit of light.

[Nick_Pavlovski]

100% will wipe out the bacteria you need.
You've gotta keep some of it. Most people here advocate a 25% change on wednesdays and 50% once a week.

[SkarloeysMom]

It will be interesting to see if your fish starts to eat when he gets into his new tank. I hope he's not sick. Getting him into a new warm tank ASAP sounds like a good idea. You're acclimating him slowly. That's good. Try not to put any of the old water in the tank with him when you finally put him in the tank. You can pour it off through a net and catch him in the net and release him straight into the tank.

[Betta Mom 2]

I guess I am the only one who sees the asininity in the concept of the non-cycled tank. What levels build up in those three days? Ammonia. With no Nitrosomas Marina, no ammonia will be converted into nitrites. That means, the ammonia sticks around in the tank. That ammonia is not only toxic, but it burns the fishes gills, leading to depreciated gill function. In those three days, ammonia WILL build up. Fish poop. Thats a fact.

The fact of the matter is, you are knowingly submitting a creature that is entrusted into YOUR care into an environment that you KNOW will do harm to it. If you can perform a simple process that will take the harm to the animal out of the equation, why would you choose otherwise?

Doing something wrong and not knowing its wrong makes you ignorant. Doing something wrong when you KNOW its wrong passes the line of ignorance, and passes into the realm of irresponsibility.

I've said my part. Whether or not you choose to accept that, is your own responsibility.
Drumachine09-

These are very strong words, and also extremely unfair!

From reading this thread, plus a bunch of other threads in this Betta Forum, I really don't KNOW much more than when I started. Everyone is very helpful and all, but it is clear that there are many opinions about what constitutes good and responsible fish care. And, many of those opinions conflict.

You may have lots more experience with fish than I do, but I think I made a good judgement call to get my betta out of his ~62 degree water, where he hasn't eaten in the week we have had him, into a warmer tank ASAP.

Furthermore, I am pretty sure I explained this fish was a party favor. Now, I am staunchly against giving away animals in this manner! But we did take him home. We were told that all the betta needed besides his glass vase was some food and water changes. We are aware that there are millions of bettas living that way with varying degrees of "success".

Well, ultimately it didn't make alot of sense to me, and I so am trying to make a better home for him. That is why I am on this forum. I am not a serious fish hobbiest, but am hoping to privide better digs than a cold glass vase. I surely appreciate the opinions and advice given here in ac.com. But, it is counterproductive to say the only responsible way is your way, and to accuse me in the manner that you did.

Lori

[Drumachine09]

Im not trying to be crude, and Im certainly not trying to hurt anyones feelings.

The just happen to be MY personal beliefs.

I see your situation with your betta, it was pretty much dumped on you, and you didn't have time to prepare. That makes you neither ignorant, nor irresponsible. Its hard to prepare for something you don't even know is happening.


My advice?

Change about a gallon of water out of the tank every day. That will leave just enough ammonia for a bacteria colony to grow, but not too much ammonia, to where it puts your fishes life/health in jeopardy. After a few weeks, begin testing your water daily, before you do your water change. When you read 0ppm ammonia, don't do a waterchange for a day. Test again the next day. If you still get 0ppm of ammonia, you are cycled. If you still get a reading, decrease the ammount of water you change a bit, and then test again in a few days. Repeat this process untill your reach 0ppm.

Then test your nitrites. When your nitrites 0 out, you are cycled.

[Marquest]

When doing a 20% water change can the water be str8 from tap or should it be comditioned or maybe even sat for a day or 2 or even a week?

[SkarloeysMom]

You can use water from tap and add a water conditioner and you should be fine. Its a good idea to test your tap water to see if it has any residual ammonia. Our water has .50ppm of ammonia straight out of the tap so I use Amquel to condition my water so that I'm not added ammonia with every water change.

[Betta Mom 2]

Hello again, friends -

Todays report - good news and bad news~

Sir Isaac Fish has been enjoying his new warmer digs - he's much more active, and seems to enjoy all the new spaces in his tank to hide in. He still wasn't eating, so I got some new food today - Hikari - and he ate it!:19: Maybe 4 or 5 bites tonight. For another time, I also got some Tetra BettaMin, to offer him some variety. But, I gather the Hikari is a high quality, complete food.

Meanwhile, yesterday I noticed the weeist bit of white on his frontmost fins - the skinny ones that hand down. So small, it could have been there all along, and I could have not noticed it - in fact, my husband insists it was there. Anyway, I made a mental note of it, and today (after I got back from the pet store - grrr) I decided the white area was a bit bigger. Like the tips are lifeless.

So, I think he is ailing - from stress? and not eating? and his former cold-water vase? Makes sense to me! I will go back to Petco tomorrow, and get something, I suppose they would know what, but does anyone out there know what this is? (Finrot??) What treatments do you recommend?

Thanks again!
Lori

[SkarloeysMom]

Actually white tips on the fins is usually the newest growth. You can see the white tip on Skarloey's fin on my avatar picture. Does it look like that only maybe smaller? Fin rot usually looks black or the fins get holes or look shredded or they get weird blobby growths on them. It doesn't sound like fin rot from what you described.

It sound's like he's doing better. Make sure to not overfeed him. You only need to give bettas about 3 or 4 pellets a day. They can get sick if overfed and its easy to do cuz normally they will always act like they're starving.

Sorry you didn't get this answered for so long.

[Buppy]

i usuale give Gil 5-6 peces

[Betta Mom 2]

Actually white tips on the fins is usually the newest growth. You can see the white tip on Skarloey's fin on my avatar picture. Does it look like that only maybe smaller? Fin rot usually looks black or the fins get holes or look shredded or they get weird blobby growths on them. It doesn't sound like fin rot from what you described.

It sound's like he's doing better. Make sure to not overfeed him. You only need to give bettas about 3 or 4 pellets a day. They can get sick if overfed and its easy to do cuz normally they will always act like they're starving.

Sorry you didn't get this answered for so long.

Hmmm - I don't know what to think. Actually, I think I'll ask this in a seperate thread.

The food, also - I heard feed every 3 days to twice a day - with amounts all over the place. Come to think of it, I'll probably end up more confused if I ask. LOL

Actually, this thread is maybe stale - I might ask more specific Qs in new ones. The cycling business has got me the most confused of all!

Anyway, I really appreciate everybody's help!

Lori