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View Full Version : Impulse bought 2 Angelfish babies....know lots bout cichlids but not these



FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 12:51 AM
I had first pick out of 100 and I couldn't help myself I was growing tired of my tetras so why not get 2 angelfish and see what happens....I got one of the best looking fish I have ever had even almost better than my 11 year old jack dempsey may he RIP. Before the bleeding hearts chime in my tank water turns over 20 times an hour I do 2 50% changes a week and they are an inch long; The only permanent residents are my sterbai corys and pleco the tetras are pretty but I'd rather an angelfish or something with personality I miss that in my fish. I wish the tiger color was shown in my camera pics I've seen tons of angelfish before and never one this striking literally so nice you can make a tank around him or her.

So the one is gorgeous 8 stripes and orange like a tiger just amazing the other is nice with a completely diff. body shape (took a shot at getting a M/F) has 4 stripes and is pearl colored; at first I was thinking my tetras might fin bite but they never did it b4 and they have long trailing fins on the males so if they were going to I'd of seen it. I plop em in and they are eating and swimming around like they own the tank; they definitely have that cichlid persona they aren't like having convict cichlids aggro wise but I'm sure they will stop being this peaceful with time. I don't know angelfish I always had green terrors, jack dempseys, pike cichlids, and an oscar or 2 my friends couldn't take care of due to size. So what can I expect perhaps some peace with the tetras if I raise 1 of the angelfish together with everyone else?

So in the end I'm keeping my sterbai corys, Melini corys, pleco, and my prized tiger angelfish so how does this play out? I have a M/F and ditch the tetras so they can breed or ditch one if they fight/the tetras if they get picked on?

FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 01:12 AM
In retrospect I bet I have diff species that's why the fins are like x2 as long on the pearl one and the body shape is diff. I didn't think they'd have diff. species in the same tank like that is it possible for angelfish hybrids? The really good looking one is def. P. Altum the other I'd guess P. Leopoldi but this is new to me.

f1shg33kz
10-12-2013, 01:47 AM
There are many, many different strains of Angelfish they are most likely both scalare. What size is your tank? Your tetras my nip at the baby Angel fish fins.

Angelfish are lots of fun, I've got 10. Great fish :)

FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 02:18 AM
It's a 29g my landlord made me sign a lease stating I wouldn't have a bigger fish tank than 5gs or more than one so she actually cut me a break kinda small compared to what I use to have. My tetras aren't nippy since I have 14 infact the angelfish usually scare the much larger (and breeding like nuts or you could say feeding my catfish everyday for me) tetras away if they want a piece of food or anything.

I can tell the bigger pearl one is dominant but it's not violent really he just makes sure the other knows he's bigger.... I'm hoping that doesn't turn into violence as they get larger but like I said these guys are nothing compared to what I use to keep I also remember why I liked cichlids so much they respond to you and it's not just a food thing either.

Also considering I paid 2 for 5 taking the pearl one back isn't a big deal; I've had 10 lemon tetras before the candycane ones, 3 diff dwarf plecos til I settled on this one lol..

I'd love to know what an angelfish with 8 black stripes and bright orange is called but I guess you can't tell which it being so young.

f1shg33kz
10-12-2013, 02:33 AM
Can you get a picture of it? You're definitely full stocked in 29. You might be better with just one. Once they grow up there may be some problems. Hopefully everything works out for you.

FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 02:43 AM
Meant to edit that last part out; the tiger one is a very colorful scalare I think but the other is very diff. it's lower fins are x2 the size the face is shaped diff. at the time I thought it might be slight sexual dimorphism but it's too different for the size.

Like on this chart the tiger one looks like the middle and the 4 stripe pearl w long fins the leopeoli I'd take a pic but it doesn't come thru very clear

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Pterophyllum.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pterophyllum&h=225&w=225&sz=1&tbnid=Lm38ASGLlYhnbM:&tbnh=186&tbnw=186&zoom=1&usg=__ev9RvdxnYt-gJuz_EbNJxfWPt1Q=&docid=rSieqqtz5A59_M&itg=1&sa=X&ei=GLNYUvnLF5bK4APksYHwBg&ved=0CI4BEPwdMAo

FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 03:08 AM
I'm stocked heavy as is I know but like I said I really feel indifferent to my tetras and I think a 29g would be big enough for a breeding pair if they got along if they were aggro to each other then it's cruel having them in that size tank but otherwise it'd be fine without all the tetras too. For now I'll grow them out and see if they bond and how their temperment is; the tiger one is enough for me but it's not like they can hurt my other fish or even each atm they prob weight half as much as my smallest tetra...

The day I see lip locking or aggro on my other tankmates I'll change things; it worked with dwarf plecos even if it took 4 til I got a male that was peaceful he's over 4 inches now and as docile as they get he also rocks a better mustache than I do.

f1shg33kz
10-12-2013, 03:18 AM
If you want a breeding pair, 29 gallons is good. I just feel bad for the other fish in the tank :)

The chance that you've got a leopoldi are pretty low. I'd love to see a picture if you can get one.

FishGuy67
10-12-2013, 09:57 AM
Yeah I was thinking it'd break my heart seeing my corys bullied. I'll see what I can do for a pic almost all the 100 looked like the tiger with less striped (most 4 not 8) and color wise none even compared it's like one of those 1 in a million things finding him for $2.50.... The pet shop worker was inhumane too she dazed or killed at least 8 babies cause she was in a hurry....what s c**t so cruel.... I offered to pick them out with the net and she yelled at me for telling her how to do her job... That's how I ended up with the pearl one I just told her pick the opposite looking so I didn't have to watch animal cruelty. I fish and hunt and butcher/fillet them but being lazy in such a hurry u kill and don't care is just messed up.

Then I told her how she probably killed a few of them bashing inch long angelfish into the glass wall with a metal mesh net; and she should be ashamed.... and she said in some foreign language curses at me. How sadistic is that.... I know it can be hard to net fish when there is a lot but doing that? that ain't right.

talldutchie
10-12-2013, 11:05 AM
Can you get a picture of it? You're definitely full stocked in 29. You might be better with just one. Once they grow up there may be some problems.

Yeah, like the fish having no room to move. I suppose that counts as "bleeding heart" sentiment. Callous attitude towards fish bothers me a bit.

f1shg33kz
10-12-2013, 03:56 PM
Yeah, like the fish having no room to move. I suppose that counts as "bleeding heart" sentiment. Callous attitude towards fish bothers me a bit.

29 gallon tank isn't that small. It's what I use for breeding. Most breeders use smaller than that. It's the same dimensions as a 55 gallon just a little shorter. Stating that they wouldn't have space to move is ignorant.

Cliff
10-12-2013, 04:16 PM
Just a reminder about forum rules before this thread gets closed


Respect other’s way of doing things in this hobby of ours. There is more than one "right" way to do things. Acknowledge that other methods may also work. If you think someone gave erroneous advice, say so politely and discuss this in a mature manner.

We can state our opinions based on our experiences and research but we still have to be respectful of the opinions of others.

talldutchie
10-12-2013, 06:52 PM
I'm not risking a ban over this, I just hope this ends well

Byron
10-12-2013, 10:33 PM
I agree with talldutchie, as I suspect his/her meaning is not that the 29g is too small for a breeding pair of angelfish, but it is certainly far too small for two angelfish and all the other tetra. And I can guarantee that something unfortunate for the fish is going to happen if this continues.

First on the angelfish, are they a mated pair? Are they even male/female? If not, you will have trouble, and I suspect I can see signs of it from your comment that one is becoming dominant. If this continues, the smaller will be dead within a few months, if not much sooner. Angelfish are shoaling fish, meaning they live in groups of several fish and they have a hierarchy within the group. This requires a large tank. I posted a video of such a setup last week, which showed the natural continual back and forth of the fish within the group. In smaller tanks, a group is not possible, but a single fish can work (with careful tankmates, more on this momentarily) or as I said a mated pair. Never have 2, 3 or 4 angelfish together unless the tank is very, very large. A group of five or more is better than fewer, and this works in a 4-foot and larger tank.

By mated pair I mean a male and female that have clearly bonded; this usually means the male chooses the female from the group. Many cichlids do this. If the pair has bonded, they will usually be fine together, and regularly spawn and raise the fry.

Now to the other fish. The angelfiish as they grow will view most smaller fish as food. Linear tetra (the neon, rummy, glowlight shaped tetra) are often eaten, wholly or partially. Disk-shaped tetra like those in the Rosy tetra clade fare OK usually, if space is sufficient (to the angelfish). The reverse however is also possible, where the tetra decide to bully the angelfish, whose sedate manner and flowing fins are quite the temptation to small tetra. Characins have lots of teeth, and they are not afraid of using them. Various environmental factors affect this too, from group size (the tetra, the more the better), tank space, and of course temptation fish like angels. All we can all do is point out the probable, given the traits of the various fish; assuming the normal behaviours of any fish is safer than hoping for the abnormal.

FishGuy67
10-13-2013, 02:00 AM
I didn't come here for abuse I came for advice and to give it. TBH the tetras are boring and lacking in persona not color just....not fun the corys are great and my pleco too... I was getting bored with the tank because I loved cichlids so much and I can't house the types I really want so boom I ran into an amazing angelfish and knew nothing about them and neither did the idiot who worked there.

People on this forum seem to think when you buy a fish you can't take it back what harm is there in trying things. I've had a green terror that was extremely peaceful living in a 55g with a Severum and a school of 6 silver dollars with a BN pleco and raphael catfish. An average GT put in there at a large size would of ate or killed any of them anytime he wanted or he could of mauled the Severum I found if you raise them together as babies SOMETIMES odd matches work out... Fish have personality too and maybe this will work maybe it won't I certainly don't expect to have 2 mature angelfish with 14 tetras. Right now my angelfish are the size of a US nickel not counting the elongated fins.

Assuming they don't take over part of the tank like some SA/CA cichlids do as they mature or go aggro on tank mates or each other (they both haven't been nipped once by the much larger tetras) you can fit a lot of fish in a 29g with proper water changes and filtration. If they all get along they share the space it's when you have aggro issues that it's wrong or fish that can't move that I find it wrong.

My jack dempsey lived 11 years and was 12 inches when he died and was like a puppy dog. He was the first fish I ever bought and the best... I was a teen at the time and I would feed him crayfish and minnows left over from bass or trout fishing and if my friends wanted a show they'd buy me feeder fish... I'm not some sadistic person I simply used what I had why waste minnows that won't live long when you have a fish that eats them. I didn't do this because I enjoy suffering I did it to vary his diet and I'd say 11 years shows that it worked.

I got the same backlash when I told a similar story on here the first time; you ever shoot a deer? butcher it? the female members of my family will cook deer/pork burgers and munch em down saying how good they are yet they couldn't accept the natural order of it all. I never let fish suffer and this isn't the first time I got the same... talk from people who most likely eat meat but couldn't bare to see how you obtain it.

Now with that off my chest thank you for the helpful info; since I have 14 candy cane tetras the aggro is dispersed the most violent thing that ever happens is the tetras bumping each other or when they breed. The males especially have the hump head look and long white trailing fins. As lovely as they are they aren't cichlids and tbh I only really enjoyed the corys and my pleco I would have gotten a Ram cichlid but having seen so many angelfish at my LFS I couldn't help myself and impulse bought an amazing looking one and an average one since they were so small.

My concern is if I got lucky and got a M/F if I give away my tetras down the line will the corys be picked on instead when they breed? or just in general like I said angelfish were about the only common cichlid I never had before. I'd be fine with the tiger angel and my catfish since unknown to me they are a schooling fish when not breeding. Also remember they are so damn small I'll be able to see how they mature persona wise and sexually....with an ideal tank setup how fast will they grow? I tried to figure out what genes are in the tiger looking one but being so young it's difficult I even found angelfish breeding societies online.

Stlouisfish
10-13-2013, 02:37 AM
I didn't come here for abuse - I don't think anyone is trying to abuse you - I think there's just concern for the future of your 2 angels & their current tank mates I came for advice and to give it. I was getting bored with the tank because I loved cichlids so much and I can't house the types I really want so boom I ran into an amazing angelfish and knew nothing about themIn general, it's advised to research a fish's living needs before purchasing them - like tank size requirements, whether they should be alone in a tank or in a group, etc.and neither did the idiot who worked there - Information on a fish is the customer's job - salespeople are there to bag fish, in general..

Fish have personality too and maybe this will work maybe it won't I certainly don't expect to have 2 mature angelfish with 14 tetras. - So, what is your plan? Are you waiting for possible aggression 1st before removing the tetras? Right now my angelfish are the size of a US nickel not counting the elongated fins.

If they all get along they share the space it's when you have aggro issues - and you might over time - what will you do then? that it's wrong or fish that can't move that I find it wrong.

but having seen so many angelfish at my LFS I couldn't help myself and impulse bought an amazing looking one and an average one since they were so small - Most fish in a store are babies but it's important to know how big they get eventually and whether it might be a danger to the current tank inhabitants.


I think Byron's advice is pretty good - I hope you take the time to read it.

Byron
10-13-2013, 05:54 PM
Aside from the serious issues,


Currently have a 29g planted with 14 candy cane tetras, 6 sterbai corys, 6 melini corys, and 1 mustache wearing albino longfin pleco.

I consider this tank stocked as it is.

Filtration has less to do with stocking than many realize. I certainly agree that more frequent water changes allow more fish, but this has its limits too.

Aside from the physical evidence we can see, meaning fish interacting in the tank, there is the chemical side we cannot see. Pheromones and allomones released by fish are read by other fish, and this can be highly stressful. Experimenting with living fish is not a good approach; research ahead can avoid many problems, and prevent harming our fish. I am certainly not abusing you or anyone; I have spent 25+ years learning and I am still learning. There is much to learn, for all of us. Better to learn from others than make the same mistakes.

Byron.

FishGuy67
10-14-2013, 12:01 AM
I didn't mean you and the word abuse was abit harsh; I was thanking you and some others Bryon for your info. I have no intentions of keeping my 14 tetras anymore so once my angelfish get bigger I'll be saying goodbye even if I only keep 1 angelfish.

I also did something you shouldn't do impulse buy but in the situation and my growing boredom with my upper level tank residents I did. I've seen tons of full grown and baby angels but never one like this vibrant tiger pattern my main question is will he retain the pattern he has now as an adult?

What I enjoy the most keeping fish is watching them grow up and become friendly with you which I don't get from tetras. Now the sterbai corys I raised from babies, some of the melini corys were younger but still not really young and my albino longfin pleco was barely over an inch too now he's 4 inches of mustache wearing awesome!