Rummy Nose Tetras with white noses

[lahlumdi]

I have 7 Rummy Nose Tetras. Since getting them I have discovered from reading about them, that they are a good indicator for your tank if there is a problem. They are sensitive fish. I have noted that when they are stressed, their red noses go white.

When I introduced my last 3 to the tank they had white noses for most of the day. When I turn the light on in the morning (when it was dark, before daily light savings time, all their noses turned white with the shock of the change. Now that the room has lightened up a bit before I turn it on, this doesn't happen.

Two weeks ago I did a 50% water change and 3 of them had white noses after that. Then I had to let the tank go for 2 weeks because this past week my son was in the hospital.

All seemed fine with my Rummy noses. But my first night home, I noticed 4 had white noses again. I did a 20% water change. Test of water showed that all was normal. The next morn all red noses were back. Last night 4 of them had white noses again. I thought I should bring the water today to the pet store for testing... but this morning all of them have red noses again.

Any idea what is going on, or is it too soon to tell?

[Fishalicious]

Maybe they are stressed? They like quite a long tank to swim up and down in plus they are a tetra where they really do love to be in large numbers... they very tightly school

I have 20 and I don't notice a change in their noses at al other than when I change the water and they are a bit stressed..

You are right though they are a fantastic indicator is something it wrong with the parameters etc... if I don't need my sunglasses to look at their noses I know something is definately wrong.

If it is not your water parameters that are causing the white noses then I would suspect stress...

Although after putting the lights on in the morning it is normal that they are lighter in color - at night when sleeping most tetra's dull a lot as not to be detected by predators when sleeping - Neon's can be completely colourless when switching the lights on every morning which can frighten a lot of new neon keepers - but it is normal ;)

[Lady Hobbs]

Different fish can show signs of stress in different ways. Neons lose color everywhere.

Many fish can tolerate no water parms off.

[lahlumdi]

Took the water in to the pet store. Found out that the nitrates were .05 and the Phosphate was ~1-1.5, so those were both elevated. She told me to clean the bottom well and to buy some good bacteria to replace. So I did another water change/cleaning today and a couple hours later, as per her instruction, added the good bacteria product. So far 5 of the fish are white nosed because of the trauma of the water change. Will see tomorrow. The lesson is don't leave the tank go 2 weeks without changing the water. I haven't had this problem before.

Thanks for your input!

[Spyder]

Nitrates = .05, are you sure it's not Nitrites. If your nitrates are .05 they are not elevated. My nitrates are 10 - 15 ppm and I have 40 Rummynose that never lose color, ever during water changes. They actually follow me around the tank watching what I'm doing and pecking at the siphon tube.

[lahlumdi]

You're exactly right! It is the Nitrites that are elevated. The Nitrates are at zero. Today all my fish are happy. Red noses all around.

[lahlumdi]

OK... now their noses were white in the evening again (2 or 3 of them). About 9:30 PM. Are they hunkering down for the night, even though they continue to swim? Don't know. Could be some parameter is off... but the water is so clear and I've changed it twice this week, plus added bacteria back into the water.

[cocoa_pleco]

its cotton mouth. my serpaes had it for a bit. its transferable but i just used melafix and pimafix in the main tank and it went away

[Spyder]

What is the pH and temp? Rummynose like soft warn water.

[lahlumdi]

The PH is 7.5 and the temp is 76.

[Spyder]

I would increase the temp to 78. Do you have any driftwood in the tank? If no, I would consider adding a good size piece. It will soften the water a bit.

[lahlumdi]

Spyder, I really appreciate your responses to my Rummy Nose problem. I have a couple of questions about this though...

My heater has only 2 settings... 76 degrees and 82 degrees. Don't think I should heat it up that much, should I?

Also... how would the other fish in the aquarium do... the neons and Beta with and increase in temp and pH?

[Spyder]

If you bring the temp to 78 there would be no problem, at 82 the Neons & Corys would struggle. Lowering the pH would help all your fish.

HTH

[lahlumdi]

OK, it takes some time to orchestrate all this with my busy life right now. 2 days ago I bought some driftwood at the local pet store. Within hours I saw the neons and corys brighten up. At first the rummy nosed ones seemed to be better too. So I imagine the ph has started to lower. (I haven't been able to get a different thermometer yet).

But now some of the rummy nosed ones seem to be developing a shiny spot near or just behind the gill area. I have tried to capture it on a photo, but I think photographing fish is one of the harder things I have tried to photograph. I think you can see the spot on one or two of them. I have tried to examine my fish and get to know them, to see an abnormalities if they develope. I don't think they've had this spot before. It seems the 3 or 4 who's noses turn white more often are the ones with the spots. So what might this be? Should I pull them out or get some treatment?

I thought I was in aquarium starters heaven for the first 2 months. Everything went overall great and my fish seemed happy. Now reality seems to be sinking in that this is an ecosystem and I'm not totally sure how to run it.

Spyder, if you're out there... looking for some advice! Anyone else?

[Spyder]

I'm stumped. Can you give us the water parameters again, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and how ofter do you do water changes. At this point I would recommend daily water changes of 25% for a few days.

[lahlumdi]

OK... yesterday I did a 25% change and then took the water in to my local aquarium. Here is what they tested:

KH - 3
pH - 7.5-8
GH - 3
Nitrate 0
Phosphate .25

I, too found that my pH seemed about there at my test kit the day before. My GH and KH was higher than that the day before when I tested it, so the water change must have brought that down. Actually I find the GH/KH thing so confusing because it seems the values are different in different countries. I cannot read German, but I can read French. My test kit includes French instructions so I use the French guidelines... but some values I guess are different on that.

Bottom line: My fish are suffering with a higher pH, but from all I read, adding chemicals is really not good for the fish. I know my water is naturally 7.5. I thought adding the driftwood would lower it, but apparently it hasn't. I don't know the chemical additives to the water. Perhaps I need to buy some bottles and let it set 2 days before adding them so that any chlorine dissapears - but I do add the antichlorine additive.

I was bummed about the attitude at the aquarium shop. They told me the reason some of my fish are not so rad is because the bright red noses are males and the lighter ones are females. From all I've read, that is not the case. And I saw their rummy noses that were lighter showed the same shiny spot on the gills that mine has. Either this shiny spot shows up more when they are lighter, or their fish are also diseased.

[Spyder]

I find it odd that your Nitrate is 0. You should have some reading of Nitrate. Lowering your pH with chemicals will not work well and is not suggested. I keep Apistos and need pH values below 6.0. To lower the pH I add Peat to the filter and I mix my water with 50% RO water. You could go to your LFS and buy small quantities of RO water and mix it with your water and the pH should slowly come down, more importantly the water will become softer, which is what Rummynose will like.

[lahlumdi]

Thanks, Spyder. I hate to ask, but... what does RO water mean?

Also, I imagine peat moss can be bought at the pet store? You say you put it in the filter. I have a carbon filter pad. Do you just put it in the filter box, or do people sometimes place some peat moss in the tank? Just asking. I told my husband it is a good thing something is going wrong, because it is forcing me to learn more about aquariums.

[lahlumdi]

OK, tonight ALL 7 of my Rummy Nose have the shiny white dot on their gill. I am assuming that this is a disease, since they didn't have it before, and then only a couple had it and now I see it on all of them, including the ones with very red noses.

First, in the above, I asked Spyder what RO water is. I suspect my Rummy Nose tetras are more susceptible to disease because of the high pH of the water and their stress.

Now I have another question. Treatment. I have read in a book on fish that I have, that one should make salt bath (out of 2 cups of aquarium water and 1/2 tsp salt) and put each fish in it for 2 minutes and then put them back in the aquarium. But it says not to use salt with caking additives. I have Morton's iodized table salt. I imagine this is NOT the salt to use!

I'm really down about the continuing saga of my poor fish that I love so much... and have invested so much in.

[Spyder]

I'm sorry you’re having so much stress with this but hang in there, things will get better.

RO water is reverse osmosis water. It takes your tap water and runs through a filtering system that removes everything from the water, all the minerals, everything. It just makes pure water. 99% of fish need some mineral content in there water so usually it's not good to go 100% RO, better to mix with tap.

The stress your rummynose are feeling is probably more from water hardness (minerals on your water) rather than the pH it self.

You can spend a couple hundred dollars and buy your own RO unit but most good Mom & Pop fish stores sell RO water. They use it for their Discus.

Regarding salt dips, I think it would be a bad idea to do a salt dip. It is very stressful on fish and your rummynose could become sicker with a dip. I think you would be much better off getting aquarium salt from your local fish store and slowly add salt to your 20-gallon tank. Add a heaping table spoon every couple hours 4x a day. That's 4 table spoons a day and do it for 3 days. This will give you almost 2 tsp per gallon. Have water ready for a 25% water change if the fish start to become too stressed. Aerate the tank real well. It's hard to tell how long but I would maintain the salt for 5 days after you see no spot. If this is a parasite raising the temp to 82, actually 84 would speed the process. As long as you aerate the water greatly all the fish should be fine.

I hope this info helps.

[lahlumdi]

I had to miss a water change yesterday, but went back to doing one today. The water is turning a ruddy color, because of the new driftwood I have put in there. I imagine this is normal. Also, with my own pH test, it appears to be between 7-7.5... so I think the pH might be finally coming down with the wood. Guess I should have expected it to lower over time.

Today 6 out of 7 have red noses, so this is an improvement and I haven't even done the salt bath yet. Here in Germany, stores are NOT open on Sunday.

I'm also embarrassed to mention something. Up to this point, I have been using an Aqua Safe solution to put in the water... but it was in German. I have recently gotten it in English... and kept putting it in... but haven't really read it carefully. I'd put a squirt in (alas) with each water change. I know... some of you out there are shuddering.

But upon reading the instructions today, I notice that is says to shake the bottle. I have never done this. I may have been upsetting the balance with this additive for 2 reasons. One, it is more concentrated at the bottom on the bottle, and secondly, I haven't been careful about measuring it. I imagine this has stressed the poor fishes.

Live and learn. No fish have been lost in the making of this mistake.

Saga to be continued.

[ganoderma]

you know many fish "loose" their colour when the lights are off....or different kinds of light. check your fish in the middle of the night, they will be very pale. are you sure its not just a lighting thing? there was a very good writeup about the reason why, but i cannot find it...

[lahlumdi]

This is an older thread reflecting a lot of anxiety on my part. I am a novice at all this!

My Rummy Nosed Tetras (and all my fish) continue to be happy and apparently healthy!

First of all, it helped putting driftwood in to lower the pH.

Also I have begun letting water sit 24 hours before I do a water change. It has made a remarkable difference. I think there must be some high levels of chlorine or something else that was bothering them, even though I added the anti-chlorine stuff. Now I don't even add anything else. And when I do the water change, the rummy noses stay rummy!

Anyhow- I surely appreciate this forum so much! I gave my first advice to a friend with an aquarium and she thought I was an expert. I told her it was my learned experience from the forum and my book "Freshwater Fish for Dummies."

Anyhow- thanks everyone!:19:

[Fishalicious]

I am sooooo happy to hear all is well now :41: Enjoy xxx