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Nick89
10-28-2007, 09:00 PM
Well, i decided to return my previous oscar to Petco. I dont think i will ever buy fish from Petco again, especially since i notice one of the little oscars eyes has like a film over it, cloudy film. And it turns out that there was a fungus on my oscar. Im not going to deal with it so i went to a LFS who knows fish. Question. It was kind of a bumpy ride for my new oscar and i can understand hes a little stressed out. But when i put him in the tank he swam near the bubbles and then went into a corner and hes just laying on his side behind a flowerpot. This is normal correct?

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 09:08 PM
He's really stressed is what it amounts to, try frozen food with extra stress coat.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 09:11 PM
dont have any stress coat. Hes looking around and what not and breathing obviously but not breathing hard. Ill give him some time, i dont think i have any frozen foods for him.

gm72
10-28-2007, 09:44 PM
Laying on his side is not good at all and is not normal. How did you acclimate the fish?

Nick89
10-28-2007, 09:46 PM
Why isnt it normal for a fish to lay on its side? thought fish sleep like that. I put him while in the bag in my water for a few minutes then scooped him out then put him in.

Edit: if this one doesnt work out im done with oscars.

gm72
10-28-2007, 09:50 PM
Some fish sleep like that, but he didn't go to sleep that quickly in your tank.

You are describing a situation where you didn't really acclimate at all. The water parameters at the store are quite different from yours at home. By just dumping him in there you created a situation where shock can develop. That isn't just for oscars but for ANY fish.

Typically the aquarist brings home the new fish and floats the bag for around 30 minutes to allow the temps to adjust. Then slowly add small amounts of water to the bag for anywhere between 1-3 hours (depending on who you talk to). Then net the fish and add. Never dump LFS water into yours for fear of introducing disease.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 09:53 PM
i didnt dump the pet stores water in my tank. And i dont really have 30 minutes. Its a 50 minute drive and i rather get him out of the bag quickly as possibly. OK update, hes moving around now. Not on his side.

Edit: he moved but he is kind of on his side again, and his spines on his back are up.

gm72
10-28-2007, 10:01 PM
You do have 30 minutes. The water from your tank is oxygenated. By stating that you would "rather get him out of the bag as quickly as possible" you are stating you don't want to do what is right to acclimate the fish to the new tank. Not a particularly good statement to make.

If I am being harsh then so be it. Bearsfan, you have asked SO many questions and researched SO much since you got on here. That is a good thing, but now let's close the loop and do it ALL right instead of just parts of it.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 10:06 PM
Ok and i thank you for the help, but bottom line will he be ok or am i going to have to do this all over again?

gm72
10-28-2007, 10:08 PM
Time will tell. He will probably be okay but you really stressed the you-know-what out of him. Please in the future acclimate appropriately and your fish will thank you significantly!

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 10:09 PM
I acclimate 30min total, I use a specimen container and if the water looks fine in the stores and I see no dead fish, I put the fish in the specimen container with just enough water to keep him under, for 30 min at 5 min. intervals I add a little water from my tank while keeping the specimen container in the tank to even out the temps. Never had a fish die due to poor acclimation. You do need to acclimate properly.

gm72
10-28-2007, 10:10 PM
Great suggestion for an acclimation technique.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 10:12 PM
Ok... i didnt know how too, sorry. I just want him to be ok. when i turned the lights out he moved to a different spot. but still on the gravel.

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 10:13 PM
I forgot to finish, I usually let the fish swim from the container instead of netting since I use very little LFS water but only if it is from a private LFS, not a big chain one and I check the tank thoroughly for signs of sickness to know if I need to quarantine longer or not, that is another thing, I quarantine my fish for at least 5 days to make sure they don't spread a sickness to my main tank, I just use my feeder fish tank to quarantine.

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 10:14 PM
He may be fine, hopefully he is but you need to go to your local walmart or something and get some stress coat, it's amazing how much it can help.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 10:16 PM
I know. And if he doesnt make it, next weekend im going to do it kuli's way. Acclimate the fish for awhile. have the stress coat in, then net him in the tank.

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 10:18 PM
I also like to do a water change right before it as I am acclimating them sometimes just to lower the nitrates but I don't do it much and I usually have less than 5 nitrates in my tank at a time. You considered something other than an oscar since your having bad luck with them?

gm72
10-28-2007, 10:36 PM
Kuli has some great points here. To quarantine a fish is ideal, because some of the illnesses they can introduce can not be seen by the naked eye. Fish are infected before they demonstrate positive signs/symptoms, similar to what we as humans experience with regard to a viral or bacterial infection. We are sick before we know it.

Also a great point to introduce fish after a water change as the nitrAte level will be at its lowest.

Stress coat is great stuff!

Kuli, as far as Bearsfan considering other fish, well, there is a looooooong backstory there. He did a lot of questioning and research on this.

Ocellatus
10-28-2007, 10:41 PM
take it easy man, oscars are not that touchy. just give him time.
and add that salt to your tank :D it cause stress relief beside other benefits.

Nick89
10-28-2007, 10:44 PM
i dont have any aquarium salt. only mcormick salt or whatever lol.

gm72
10-28-2007, 10:44 PM
DO NOT use table salt. The iodine will kill the fish.

Ocellatus
10-28-2007, 10:56 PM
don't use iodized salt.
aquarium salt, rock salt, kosher salt, ... are good.
edit: sorry for repetition. i didn't see gm72 post.

TowBoater
10-28-2007, 11:16 PM
I know, I discussed other fish with him as well but he stated earlier he may change his mind on the oscars.

2manyfish
10-28-2007, 11:28 PM
The only time I would just put a fish into the tank without acclimation is if the fish is dying in the bag. Otherwise you need to take the time to do this right.

I just use the bag. Open it up, dump half the water down the sink, then use a clip (the kind used for bags of potato chips to close them up/keep them fresh)...I use that clip to hold the bag on the inside of the tanks lip. After 10 minutes I unclip the bag and use a turkey baster* to squirt tank water into the bag. This is repeated every 10 minutes for the next 30 minutes ++ (depending on where I got the fish, and saltwater always get extra time).

You want to do this not only to equalize the water temp but also to get the pH and hardness of the different water closer. If you just dump a fish from one pH to another the fish can get very ill and die. This is especially true going from a higher pH to a lower one.

But what's done is done. About the only thing I can suggest for your new oscar is that you check your water parameters to make sure you don't have any problems going on...and if you see any reading of ammonia, or nitrites or if your nitrates are high, do a water change ASAP.




*A turkey baster can be a very good tool in this hobby but you need to buy it new and use it only for your fish!!

Nick89
10-28-2007, 11:40 PM
everything is 0 except ammonia which is .5. He is on the gravel. But the guy said if the oscar is still doing this after a few days bring him back and i can get another one. Free.

Drumachine09
10-28-2007, 11:42 PM
Did you cycle your tank?

Nick89
10-28-2007, 11:44 PM
i put stuff in it every 7 days to cycle it.

2manyfish
10-28-2007, 11:57 PM
You need to do a water change. You should have 0 for ammonia...

Nick89
10-28-2007, 11:59 PM
then that would ruin the start of my cycle. I need ammonia to get nitrite into nitrate.. and by taking water out and ammonia being in water that means my cycle cant get going.,.correct?

Im not positive on this.

2manyfish
10-29-2007, 12:30 AM
So you haven't cycled your tank.


You have three options.

The first is to take the fish back to the LFS and do NOT buy any more fish of any kind until the tank is actually cycled.

The second is to save the fish you have. Which means you MUST do water changes. Doing water changes may prolong the cycle time but it will save the fish you have! The amount of water changed should be around 25%.
2 weeks - every single day then,
2 weeks - every other day then,
2 weeks - 2 times during each week
Then normal once a week changes.

The third option is to do nothing but your usual once a week changes and add your bacteria starter and hope for the best. Considering where the fish is now, I doubt there will be a good end....(in plain english, option 1 or 2 is doable, option 3 is almost certain death for the fish!)

HTH

Nick89
10-29-2007, 12:37 AM
Dude, im putting in stuff to cycle the tank, so my tank is cycling. And why is it option 3 is certain? I have kept fish with out cycling or letting the tank get set up for awhile just putting the fish in soon as its filled and no problems, fish lived for over a year before i gave him to a friend. My ph is good between 6.8-7.0. Not everything is certain, we need to think positive, and not that everything is going to go bad.

gm72
10-29-2007, 12:40 AM
everything is 0 except ammonia which is .5. He is on the gravel. But the guy said if the oscar is still doing this after a few days bring him back and i can get another one. Free.

Not such a good option. Kill the fish because of a lack of attention to proper setup and acclimation? Free replacement still equals a mistake. Let's take some time and make sure that the cycle is properly completed and that the fish is properly acclimated.

You are getting a lot of advice and a lot of criticism appropriately. Let's pay attention and move forward for the health of the animal.

Nick89
10-29-2007, 12:43 AM
Not such a good option. Kill the fish because of a lack of attention to proper setup and acclimation? Free replacement still equals a mistake. Let's take some time and make sure that the cycle is properly completed and that the fish is properly acclimated.

You are getting a lot of advice and a lot of criticism appropriately. Let's pay attention and move forward for the health of the animal.


I made a mistake. Its not like im the only one who has done it. Im trying to learn this stuff the best i can. And the guy told me that if i put the cycling stuff in it is fish safe, and just to add it every 7 days. He gave me his word on it.

gm72
10-29-2007, 12:45 AM
...and I have some land for sale in Florida for you. No, really. Its beautiful :hmm3grin2orange: You are right--all of us make mistakes, but most learn from their mistakes, take the criticism, and move forward from there.

What are you adding to the tank every 7 days to cycle? There is no such product.

Nick89
10-29-2007, 12:49 AM
its called TLC for freshwater aquariums. I add 5 cap fulls every 7 days.

Edit: Type in google product "tlc" for aquariums

gm72
10-29-2007, 12:50 AM
Snake oil, plain and simple.

2manyfish
10-29-2007, 12:57 AM
Your fish is already on the gravel. You have a reading of ammonia. Just because some fish can survive the cycling process doesn't mean all of them can. And even the ones that survive will have damage to their gills. They will not live a normal life span and/or they will be prone to illness.
And please don't say that your other fish lived for a year. Most fish live much longer than a year or two. I have had tetras that lived for over 7 years.....

Nick89
10-29-2007, 01:01 AM
Your fish is already on the gravel. You have a reading of ammonia. Just because some fish can survive the cycling process doesn't mean all of them can. And even the ones that survive will have damage to their gills. They will not live a normal life span and/or they will be prone to illness.
And please don't say that your other fish lived for a year. Most fish live much longer than a year or two. I have had tetras that lived for over 7 years.....

I didnt say the fish died, i said he lived for a year with me, but then i gave him to a friend, and hes still living.

gm72
10-29-2007, 01:14 AM
Ammonia and nitrIte should always be at zero. This is more proof that the product that is being used in this case is just junk. Period.

Listen, let's cut to the chase here. Bearsfan has been a poster here for some time learning about cycling, fish to keep, etc. Some advice has been taken and some has not. Each of us must make choices and learn from mistakes.

Bearsfan, you are still having questions about very basic fishkeeping information. I'm not sure how else we can help you. You introduced a fish into a tank that is very clearly not cycled despite having received an enormous amount of advice and information about properly cycling a tank.

Again, not trying to be negative, but we are starting to run around in circles here.

Nick89
10-29-2007, 01:37 AM
It may be basic for some people, but for me it isnt. I dont see how keeping an empty aquarium for 6 weeks with no fish, or fish you want to properly cycle a tank. I have never heard of such a thing until i saw people talking about it, to me, the guy said this stuff was better than the product cycle and i took his word on it. All my fish yesterday was fine, until i brought this one home today.

TowBoater
10-29-2007, 02:01 AM
It's because no one knew about it until a couple years ago, they thought it took a few sacrificed fish to get some living.

Nick89
10-29-2007, 06:47 PM
Well today the oscar is swimming all over the tank. Is that a good sign? This morning he was laying on the gravel, but now hes swimming.

TowBoater
10-30-2007, 01:28 AM
He was asleep then, when I turn on my tank for about 10 min. my severum lays on he side or is nose down then he perks up and greets me. Sounds like he is in good shape, keep up with water changes and tests!!

Nick89
10-30-2007, 01:41 AM
Well thats the thing, the light was on for a few hours when my mom gets up early. But he is eating, swimming and being more active.

cocoa_pleco
10-30-2007, 01:45 AM
mine does that too, usually when he sees me he darts to the front wagging his tail, but in early morning he just slowly drifts around because hes sleeping

Nick89
10-30-2007, 01:55 AM
yeah, right now im feeding him mixture of pellets and flakes, he really likes the flakes, but he also likes pellets.

TowBoater
10-30-2007, 01:57 AM
Try frozen as soon as possible, they love that stuff.

Ocellatus
11-28-2007, 10:06 PM
hey man whats up? why aren't you around these days?
i want to hear about your baby!