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aqua1
05-23-2013, 07:07 PM
I have rainbows that have been breeding all over the place everyone is fine except this one adult male i think, he is gasping at the top of the tank just him nobody else. is there a problem with him. Water conditions are fine ammonia 0 nitrates 0 nitrates 40ppm.

Slaphppy7
05-23-2013, 07:16 PM
You have nitrAtes listed twice, what is actually 40 ppm?

If nitrItes are 0 and nitrAtes are 40, I would do a water change to get the nitrAtes to 20 ppm or lower...

What size tank?...what kind of filtration?

aqua1
05-23-2013, 07:38 PM
I have a 75 gallon tank, my nitrites are 0 my nitrates 40 ppm i have a Hob tetra whisper ex 70 like i said he is the only one gasping the other fish swimming and having fun.

gronlaura
05-23-2013, 07:41 PM
Mine did that before they died. I actually euthanized 2 of them. They have sensitive gills and if there is gill damage this is what they do. Could be your high nitrates - also check your hardness. If it is too low, they will have a problem. My dGH was at 4 and I slowly raised it to 10. My water params were 0/0/10. I checked each fish after it passed and there were no signs of illness, yet I still lost them.

Slaphppy7
05-23-2013, 07:46 PM
I have a 75 gallon tank, my nitrites are 0 my nitrates 40 ppm i have a Hob tetra whisper ex 70 like i said he is the only one gasping the other fish swimming and having fun.

First off, alot of the people here will tell you that you need 2x the filtration capability of the size of your tank...therefore, a 75 gallon tank would require a 150 gallon filter, I personally use a 30 gal. filter on a 10 gallon tank...

Is this a cycled tank?...how often do you do water changes?...I would do at least a 50% change right now to get that 'trate down...be sure to use your water conditioner/dechlor for every water change

Triton
05-23-2013, 07:57 PM
Based on water params I am assuming its cycled. I think the nitrates being high are what is causing it. I've heard the praecox are some of the more fragile of the rainbows.

I also second the fact that you should look to add another, or upgrade that filter, I am actually upgrading my 55 to have two Aquaclear 110's on it

gronlaura
05-23-2013, 08:10 PM
First off, alot of the people here will tell you that you need 2x the filtration capability of the size of your tank...therefore, a 75 gallon tank would require a 150 gallon filter, I personally use a 30 gal. filter on a 10 gallon tank...

Is this a cycled tank?...how often do you do water changes?...I would do at least a 50% change right now to get that 'trate down...be sure to use your water conditioner/dechlor for every water change

+1 to this advice. Didn't see the post re the 75 gal with a filter for a 70 gal before I replied.

Especially with the neon dwarfs, you need excellent filtration. I have a 75 gal with two AquaClear 110s (AC110) and my nitrates before a PWC are never over 20 and are 10 or less after the PWC. My filter baskets have the sponges that came with the filters and the rest of the space is filled with the bio media that came with and extra Fluval biomax. If you add another HOB filter (a minimum of an AC70 or even better an AC110) you will have proper filtration for your tank.

aqua1
05-23-2013, 08:23 PM
I change water once w eekly 25% the tank is cycled and i do add amquel plus and stress zyme, ferts to my planted tank I have a aqueon quietflow 55/75 filter will it be alright to run this in addition to my tetra whisperex 70 filter.

gronlaura
05-23-2013, 08:27 PM
I change water once w eekly 25% the tank is cycled and i do add amquel plus and stress zyme, ferts to my planted tank I have a aqueon quietflow 55/75 filter will it be alright to run this in addition to my tetra whisperex 70 filter.

What is your tank stocked with, what species and numbers? The second filter will definitely help.

Triton
05-23-2013, 08:33 PM
yes, that extra filter will help. I understand that running out and buying new filters isn't easy.

If i were you, I'd put that quietflow on it for now. And just keep an eye out for a Aquaclear that you can stuff with biomax. You can find them for $20-$40

aqua1
05-23-2013, 09:35 PM
yes, that extra filter will help. I understand that running out and buying new filters isn't easy.

If i were you, I'd put that quietflow on it for now. And just keep an eye out for a Aquaclear that you can stuff with biomax. You can find them for $20-$40

I already have the quietflow in house had a spare, I will setup both filters 50% water change and see what happens thanks to all who helped.

Slaphppy7
05-23-2013, 09:37 PM
Sounds like a plan, post back and let us know.

Indian Woods Angels
05-24-2013, 12:03 AM
Possible problems:

Rainbows are high oxygen fish. They have sensitive gill membranes. The common 50% water change technique causes severe issues on many of the rainbow species. We commonly add a dechlor agent to the water and add the chlorinated water to the tank. At 50% this amount is too much for many bow species. I recommend a change of only 30% and do so twice per week to avoid the exposure to sterilants which burn the gills.

A nitrate level of 40 ppm is high for bows. This is because nitrate displaces readily dissolved oxygen and also stresses the filtration organs such as the kidneys and liver which on rainbows are already relatively sensitive.

Many times in rainbow fish groups you will see a heirarchy of rank in the fish. They will exist as a group and group spawn but almost always you will have more or less prominent fish in this group. As fish struggle to attain or hold this alpha position in both male and female fish they may exert themselves to a point of fatigue and or become injured. It is a good idea to provide recluse areas for fish to hide from the stress of mating behavior. This is especially critical for females and lower ranking males. An alpha males aggression can become over bearing quite quickly. To witness the situation it is best to view the tank in the first hour or so of the morning. This will be excitement time.

jaysee
05-24-2013, 12:13 AM
Based on water params I am assuming its cycled. I think the nitrates being high are what is causing it. I've heard the praecox are some of the more fragile of the rainbows.

If high nitrates are causing it, then I would expect the other fish to be affected as well. The fact that they are breeding would indicate that they are not stressed by the nitrates.

There is something wrong with the fish, no doubt. I think it's a mistake to simply blame the most convenient reason - nitrates. There are any number of other reasons why one particular fish is showing signs of distress.

I have kept rainbows for years and perform 80% water changes every time I change the water - I've had no issues whatsoever. The fish seem to enjoy it. I add water conditioner and the refill the tank with tap water.

Too, I have not found 40 ppm of nitrates to be problematic for them.

Now if most or all of the rainbows were exhibiting signs of distress, then that would indicate a problem on a macro level. But when only one is, it's more likely to be an issue with that specific fish, not a systemic problem like water quality or water changes, or anything else that would have an impact on the rest of the fish in the tank.

Indian Woods Angels
05-24-2013, 03:16 AM
Do not do 80% raw tap water changes on bows. You will be very disappointed if you do.

jaysee
05-24-2013, 03:52 AM
Do not do 80% raw tap water changes on bows. You will be very disappointed if you do.

Like I said I've been doing it for years. Haven't ever been disappointed.

mojosodope
05-24-2013, 04:03 AM
Everyone's tap water is different, simply put, some have it easier than others.

jaysee
05-24-2013, 04:19 AM
Everyone's tap water is different, simply put, some have it easier than others.

The issue being presented is the supposed damage the water conditioner has on the fish - not the water itself....

mojosodope
05-24-2013, 04:31 AM
I see that... I too do water changes direct from tap and add Prime right after I've completed it.

Indian Woods Angels
05-24-2013, 06:21 PM
In our advise we should always stay on the side of caution so we don't have folks harming their fish and getting disappointed and leaving this great hobby.

jaysee
05-24-2013, 07:26 PM
Some people can't be too cautious....

If everyone was as cautious, we wouldn't learn anything and stay in our protective bubbles, afraid of the outside world.

There's more than enough fear mongering in this hobby....no need for people to be afraid of water changes too.

Triton
05-24-2013, 07:42 PM
My only thought on blaming the nitrates was that it was probably the "straw that broke the camels back", ie the fish had other issues, but the highish nitrates didn't help.

Personally I do 30-40% pwc once, or twice, a week. Occassionally will do larger if I feel it needs it. But I do see how a large water change can lead to issues.

jaysee
05-24-2013, 08:05 PM
I agree, nitrates aren't helping - it likely sped up whatever was really wrong with it.

Large water changes are the standard for many, MANY fish keepers, though there are some that are afraid of them for whatever reason.

Triton
05-24-2013, 08:11 PM
I agree, nitrates aren't helping - it likely sped up whatever was really wrong with it.

Exactly, heck, most of the time in this hobby it isn't just one thing that causes problems, its one thing that weakens the fish that shows the problem that eventually kills the fish

I'd still say, toss the 2nd filter on (can't hurt) and keep a close eye for any signs of other problems

gronlaura
05-24-2013, 08:58 PM
I started with 9 neon dwarfs - 3 are left. These 3 have survived dGH that was too low and then had to be slowly raised from 4 to 10 and an outbreak of ich. The other 6 didn't survive - I lost 3 to the ich, 2 to the dGH problem and one came with a damaged gill from the LFS.

I think sometimes, when everything is as it should be in your tank, it just comes down to the fact that some fish are sturdier than others.

aqua1
05-25-2013, 03:07 PM
About that fish gasping at the top of tank I added the second filter other rainbows doing fine but he looks fatter than the other males, around the belly area. another thing he is off by himself not schooling like the rest.

jaysee
05-25-2013, 06:01 PM
In my experience when fish go off by themselves that means they are sick/dying. Best thing to do would be to move it to quarantine if you want to try to save it.

aqua1
05-25-2013, 06:26 PM
I might just have to euthanize it, poor baby.

jaysee
05-25-2013, 06:43 PM
If you don't have a quarantine tank then that's probably a good idea.

Indian Woods Angels
05-25-2013, 08:16 PM
Diet is very important in rainbows. They are geared towards eating vegetation and algae and high amounts of complex proteins cause issues in their livers and kidneys. They get bacterial issues within these organs. The ideal diet for rainbows is a vegetable diet and small easily digestible forms of crustaceans. I use a kelp and spirulina complex as well as a marine based flake for algae preferring saltwater angels. In regards to euthanizing I tend towards curing the fish if possible. The reason being is that if you euthanize each fish as it comes down with an item you never do educate yourself in regards to treatment and you may just keep cycling through your tank until it is eventually empty over a malady that may be easily corrected. It would be a shame to euthanize fish because of misinformation. This site specializes in the care of rainbows. www.rainbow-fish.org On this site you will find keepers of exotic rainbow fish species and like minded keepers who keep their specimens in optimal conditions and respect the specialty care that these fish require.

jaysee
05-26-2013, 05:31 AM
My rainbows (boesmani, yellow, turquoise and irian red) eat NLS thera A exclusively. It's all they've eaten for nearly 4 years now. It's really not that hard to keep them, even if you are as disrespectful of them as I am. I mean, if I can do everything WRONG, then that's good news for everyone else.....

In order to cure the fish, you must first determine what's wrong with it. Blindly medicating fish is not good practice. Hopefully you have a quarantine tank - treating the healthy fish with meds is not advisable. Perhaps indian woods angels can help you with the diagnosis and treatment, as I am obviously unqualified to to share my experience with these fantastic fish. I'm just thankful that my tank hasn't imploded due to my irresponsibility.

Indian Woods Angels
05-26-2013, 12:24 PM
I will continue to offer advice in a patient, polite and respectful demeanor if needed.

jaysee
05-26-2013, 12:39 PM
Advice is good - telling people that things WILL happen when they won't, not good.

fishmommie
05-26-2013, 02:44 PM
+ to all the above. I'd add more filtration but I'd also up the water changes to 50% weekly. I do that as a matter of course.
Good luck. Hope you save him.

Indian Woods Angels
05-26-2013, 06:20 PM
There is a solution to almost everything. http://www.recticare.com/?gclid=CJmF3_mwtLcCFYc7MgodjhMACg

jaysee
05-26-2013, 07:50 PM
Now rainbows need hemorrhoid cream to live too! This just keeps getting better. Did you make that up as well?

Greggz
05-28-2013, 12:12 PM
Iíve been keeping Rainbow fish for years. They are a hardy fish, and very, very rarely have I ever lost one.

That is, except for the Praecox. For whatever reason, Praecox are the least hardy of all the breeds I have kept. I have lost one from time to time, and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it. All of the sudden one will stop eating and a few days later he is gone.

My other breeds are nearly indestructible, and I have some right now that are over seven years old.

As to water changes, I change out about 75% of the water every two weeks. And I donít use prime or any other conditioner. Just drain and fill. Been doing that for years, and the tank is very healthy, including my Bolivian Rams, Roseline sharks, Ottoís, and Clown Loaches.

Maybe itís poor breeding stock, or maybe they are just more fragile than other Rainbows, but I donít know if you can do anything differently to make them fare better.

Good luck and I hope your other fish continue to thrive.

Triton
05-28-2013, 12:36 PM
jaysee, IWA just is stating his opinion. Its not a personal attack. We all have our methods that work, and each of us has given advice on this forum that might not be supported by others.

Lets stay on topic regarding the sick rainbow

I agree that if the OP has a QT tank to put it in there. It allows you to monitor the fish much more closely and see if you can determine the problem

aqua1
06-01-2013, 09:55 PM
That sick rainbow passed, woke up this morning found him among the plants all my other fish are doing fine no signs of sickness thanks for all of the members suggestions, babies are still being born all doing fine.

Indian Woods Angels
06-02-2013, 01:19 AM
Sorry you lost your Praecox bow.