help with cycling

[ekap]

hey everyone, im new to aquariums. i bought a 10 gal tank with a 20 gal powered fliter and an air strip for bubbles. And also some gravel. i have 3 live plants in the tank and some rocks i think there shale? i had 3 little neon yellow barbs. as starter fish.i bought the PH tester and ammonia tester from what the salesman said at the fish store. i starting reading after i had the fish in the new tank already. i didnt realize i would be harming the fish. i did 50% water changes daily for about a week but i couldnt get the ammonia to come down. one morning i woke up one of the 3 fish were swimming kinda on its side. I couldnt take it anymore lol. so i bought the fish back to the pet store. now i am trying to do a fishless cycle with ammonia. 2 days ago i put ammonia in the water to the levels were at 4ppm. 2 days later the ammonia is still at the same level.

Shouldnt the levels have gone down already? Am i doing this right please help

[mommy1]

The ammonia level is a bit high for a 10 gallon, you might want to do a 50-75% water change and bring it down to 1-2ppm, don't forget to dechlorinate the new water before it's added to the tank, then wait. 2 days is not enough time for much to happen, give it at least a week. Remember, don't add any more ammonia until it reads 0ppm. You will also need tests for nitrite and nitrate to determine when the cycle is complete.

[fishmommie]

++ to Mommy1
You might also want to up the heat in the tank to 82F and add an air bubbler if you have one and if not, lower the water level about an inch to help move things along. Resist taking any more readings for a few days as mommy1 said. When ammonia finally drops to 0 and you are also seeing nitrites, then dose ammonia again but only to 1ppm. then check only once a day, same time. when ammonia again drops to 0 and you still have nitrites, then repeat as above. On the day that both ammonia and nitrites are 0 - congrats! you're cycled. Do a large water change to bring your nitrates down and stock your fish! It' really that simple. you could be done in 3 - 4 weeks.
Oh - and you'd just as well get an API liquid water test kit. as as been said, you need to check your nitrites and nitrates as well as ammonia. You'll need it for ongoing tank maintenance as well. Don't worry about PH during the cycle unless it drops horribly low as ph will fluctuate during a cycle.

[ekap]

thank you for all the help. i have the heater in the tank at 82. I also bought an API mast test kit. I wish i just bought that to begin with. I guess i just need some patience. I also did a 75% water change to bring the ppm down to around 2. Should i see a bacteria bloom soon?

[rrutter81]

Just dont mess with the water. I hear that cycles stall with too much ammonia but tbh the biggest thing to stall a cycle is an unstable environment. I'm cycling with 20+ ppm ammonia and have nitrites within the first 5 days. Just let it run it's course and add ammonia as needed.
It's not uncommon for ammonia to stay at current levels for a couple of weeks. If you truely want a faster cycle, go to that pet store and ask them to scoop out some gunk from their sump and put it in a plastic baggy for you. Throw that in the tank and you should be good within days.

[mommy1]

rrutter81 how big is the tank you are cycling? I can't imagine needing that huge of a bioload. It is uncommon for ammonia levels to stay constant for a couple weeks. A couple weeks is long enough to complete a full cycle.

[rrutter81]

My tank is 210 gallons. I added half a bottle of ammonia and threw some live rock in there to get rid of any hitch hikers. Of course the die-off will increase the spike moreso, but the bacteria will remain.
If you are starting off a cycle from scratch with no added media from another tank, you can easily stay at ammonia levels for weeks. A more experienced aquarist will probably see the drop in a matter of days due to creating an environment that facilitates the nitrogen cycle.
Ive seen beginners not cycle for almost 2 months due to disturbing the environment too much and adding chemicals for everything.

[mommy1]

Maybe the method of cycling your saltwater tank is different than the way we cycle our freshwater tanks, but the last time I cycled a tank using ammonia it took less than 3 weeks. When I have cycled filter media it takes about a week, and I started with 4ppm both times.I do agree messing with the tank is the number 1 mistake many people make when using ammonia to cycle a tank. I also understand using a huge amount of ammonia to sterilize the tank and kill off hitchikers. Saying you are cycling with ammonia levels of 20ppm and then implying the cycle will be done quickly is unbelievable. Sterilizing and cycling are two different things, and I am curious about how long this will take , I hope you start a journal of your own so we can see.

[rrutter81]

Agreed. A bit more unconventional as my ammonia also contained surfectants for the initial dose. I have activated carbon in my refugium to filter it out as all my future doses will be pure ammonia.
Tank was fully running friday, and already had a small diatom boom (even using ro/di) yesterday. Id rather start off fully disinfected than get critters that force me to tear everything down and start over.
4 ppm ammonia will net a superfast cycle but i'm aiming for a slower hardier one. Unfortunately nitrates are already .25 ppm on day 3.
I think it's the live rock that sped it up.

[rrutter81]

nitrites. not nitrates.

[mommy1]

You basically added the saltwater equivalent of freshwater cycled bio-media when you added the live rock, so I guess it did speed up the cycle.

[rrutter81]

Yup you got it. There isnt any difference between marine and freshwater cycling short of the type of bacteria.
Freshwater tanks can cycle at 20 ppm as well. Although ive seen way more than that in tanks that actually stopped all bacteria from forming. (my neighbor had a 10 gallon tank with 4 goldfish and a pleco)

[fishmommie]

thank you for all the help. i have the heater in the tank at 82. I also bought an API mast test kit. I wish i just bought that to begin with. I guess i just need some patience. I also did a 75% water change to bring the ppm down to around 2. Should i see a bacteria bloom soon?

Bacterial blooms happen when they happen. you may see one right away and again, you may not.
just follow the stickie directions for the fishless cycle and you'll be fine. to par it down to very basic points:
test for ammonia 1 time per day - and only 1 time every 24 hours
when ammonia reaches 0 AND you see nitrites, then dose ammonia again but only to 1/2 of your initial dose.
continue to do this until both nitrites and ammonia are 0 and you have nitrates. this should take about 3 - 4 weeks. If the nitrates are high, do a large water change (75% or more) then stock your fish.
continue to ask questions if you need to:o)

[Cliff]

I'm a little confused if this is a SW or FW tank

If this is a SW tank, then all I can say is WOW. The are some minor differences between cycling a FW and SW tank that can make a really really big different down the road for you. I would STOP adding that much ammonia. Typically, when you add live rock to a tank, you will have a small dis-off from the rocks and that ammonia spike alone will be enough to cycle your tank in a matter of days in most cases (depending on the quality of the live rock). You have to also keep in mind your rock is like a sponge. When you have that much ammonia in the water, your rock will start to absorb it. When the ammonia level in the water drops, ammonia will be realised back into the water, like osmosis.With that much ammonia in the water for much longer and you could be well on your way to creating a lot of water quality issues for a long time to come. Trust me on this. I have made the same mistake once and it took me a few months of recuring that rock before I could use it in one of my tanks

I would suggest a large water change, about 80% to bring that level down as much as possible. I'm not exaggerating here either. The below link can help you better understand how to cycle a marine aquarium.

http://www.reefaquarium.com/2012/cycling-a-marine-aquarium/

[rrutter81]

I hate to disagree but there is no way i will stall my cycle and "bail water". I'll keep my cycle info in the thread with test kit. I purposely promoted "die off" to hopefully erradicate hitch hikers as "cooking" live rock didnt work last time.

[Cliff]

Have you tried the below approach to curing live rock? I has always worked for me to get rid of all hitch hikers.

http://www.reefaquarium.com/2013/curing-rock-for-marine-aquariums/

[rrutter81]

Yes my live rock was cured and that method is great. It doesnt prevent hitch hikers though. There is a TON of live stuff in that rock inspection wont show.
I boiled (cooked) live rock and still had hitch hikers lol. I'm hoping this method will be more detrimental (crosses fingers). Aptasias ran amuck last time.

[fishmommie]

[QUOTE=Cliff;1141847]I'm a little confused if this is a SW or FW tank

Cliff - the OP was asking about a FW tank but the thread got a little highjacked.
I tried to steer it back on course.