Preparation for initial stock

[stardotstar]

I have had the tank (60L) settling for over 36Hours and established neutral PH and 26'.

The water is clear and well filtered and oxygenated.

Today I added 4 snails and about 8 plants.

Since the tank has never had fish there is nothing for the snails to eat, they are burrying themselves (one has burried itself and not moved - a dark one) and the others are moving around plenty but burrying themselves periodically - I guess looking for food but the gravel is so well washed and the plants so new there is no bio-culture in the tank!

I am intending to begin with some livebearers tomorrow evening - about 6.

Anything else I should be doing in preparation?

Cheers,
Will

[kimmers318]

You will want to read up on cycling your tank before adding any fish! 36 hours running doesn't give you a tank full of beneficial bacteria to aid in removing fish wastes.
If you know someone else with an established tank, you can get "seed" material from them. I have heard good things about bio-spira.
You might want to feed the snails..mine like just about anything that falls to the floor of the tank.....shrimp pellets and algae wafers are favorites.
Check out Williams ebook for information.
Good luck with your future fish.

[stardotstar]

Thank you, I have fed the snails and they seem to be eating - though still burrying themselves - is that normal???

I have also downloaded William's book and will begin reading it today!

Will

[stardotstar]

OK it is falling into place. I have added sera "nitrivec" Biostarter and a driftwood piece with plant attached,

I have also obtained a sera liquid buffer to control the ph - apparently all our tap water is very alkaline so I have been recommended this over Sodium Biphosphate as it is more stable and easier to use.

I will add the first fish on Wednesday night - tank will have been cycled with the Biostarter for 36 hours and the water in the tank will have been stabilising since Sunday. I am going to add 6 neon tetra to begin with.

I am also surprised to learn of the move away from aeration in todays tanks - especially when wanting to promote healthy plant growth - I have got some read leaf and thin leaf plants which are heavily dependent on good co2 supply. So We'll see how it all goes but I think it is looking like a good start :)

Thanks for the tips guys.,

Will

[stardotstar]

OK I have just had the water tested at a local specialist aquarium and they found the PH to be 6.95 (my own crude tests looked to be on the acidic side of 7.0 so they were quite reliable and I am happy about this!) they told me to just leave that - chasing .05 is useless - especially since there is still no fish in the tank. The amonia and nitrite are very low readings though I don't fully understand the intracies of the cycle yet so I am assuming that if they say it is ok it will be,

I am really enjoying William's ebook - it is very easy to read, very informative and helpful.

I must say things have come on a long way since my last foray into the hobby over ten years ago.

The technical aspects of co2 maintenance for plant growth are fascinating but it is all looking to be very expensive as a starting point.

So I will see how the plants go - and only look at co2 supplements once I am more experienced in managing the equipment I have already. I don't want to overcomplicate things.

I have reduced the amount of aeration since I read that this assists in transporting the co2 that is there out of the tank. I do like it however and will maintain a small curtain of fine bubbles.

My driftwood or plants have introduced a small conical shell snail which I also am told I should remove unless "I want millions of them" :lol:

Anyway if anyone has any ideas or advice based on my little narrative here please speak up I would be delighted to listen to any and all advice :)

Will

[kimmers318]

I am not an expert....but lets see if I can "simplify" the cycyling process for you so it is easier to comprehend....and then you can reread the intricacies of it to get better informed. Basically...fish eat, and pee and poo.....leftover food and wastes become ammonia...which is toxic to fish even in small amounts, what doesn't kill them will likely cause health issues making them more susceptible to other diseases. The beneficial bacteria in your tank, which is established thru cycling, using items like the biospira you mentioned, or seeding from another tank, use up the ammonia and turns it into nitrITES, which is also harmful as fish, but not as much as ammonia. Once the ammonia has been turned into nitrITES, another beneficial bacteria comes along and utilizes it and turns it into nitrATES, which not as harmful as ammonia or nitrites, still needs to be kept under control. These beneficial bacteria do not come along from 'nowhere', and take time to establish. The process can be sped up by using the biospira (so I have heard, never tried it) or using gravel and/or filter media or the "squeezings" from a dirty filter in your new tank because the good bacteria likes to live on these items.
Be careful waiting 36 hours after the addition of biospira....I don't know how long the good bacteria can live without something to feed on...if there isn't waste in the tank, it will die. If you are feeding the snails....there should be plenty of waste, but watch your water parameters as you add fish. You want to keep ammonia and nitrite levels at 0. The nitrate levels you need to keep down, some say <20, others <40ppm. I have found that weekly water changes keeps mine well below 20ppm so am not concerned there. I know plants do use nitrates, but I have little experience with them, they kept dying from not enough light, so I gave up. I occasionally throw in some water sprite I believe because my fish like to eat it.
As for snails...yes, they will quickly populate a tank, so be prepared to remove excess. I don't have excess due to the fact that I feed them to my dwarfpuffers! The small conical shaped snails sound like malaysian trumpet, which are reportedly good for digging in the gravel and keeping things moving around and removing fallen food, but remember, they make their own waste.
Be careful adding fish too early, or of adding too many. Do you want the neons to keep? With a 60L, which another site tells me works out to be roughly 15 gal, you are limited to how many fish you can have, and I would hate to see you use fish to "start" your tank, and then not be able to add what you want later. You are better off using a fully cycled tank and adding what you want slowly. Each time you add a fish, the good bacteria needs to grow to combat the increased waste, so time is needed. I had luck with my 64 gal because it was so large that adding 1 or 2 fish at a time did not make any noticeable difference, smaller tanks the wastes can accumulate faster because there is less water to dilute it.
I have learned a lot in the last few months from the great people here, and on other forums, and of course by researching. You are heading in the right direction, just keep researching and learning. Although mistakes suck, you learn from them too! Stay away from the more sensitive fish until your tank has been established awhile, figure out what you ultimately want to have as your final stocking plan and you should end up with a wonderful tank full of fish friends who are just as happy to see you everyday as a dog. My dwarfpuffers zoom around the tank whenever I come near hoping for bloodworms or snails, and sulk when someone doesn't turn off the lights on the nights I work because they want to go to sleep!

[stardotstar]

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative reply. Your explanation has further clarified the cycle which I believe I understand now through reading William's book and widely researching on the net.

It makes sense to me that the harmful biproducts (ammonia and nitrite) of containing fish and their attendant bacteria in a small volume of water (or at least a static volume) are reduced to the relatively harmless nitrate and therefore regular, appropriate quantity water changes will ensure that the nitrate does not accumulate thus producing a self sustaining habitat.

Once it began to make sense to me I got a sera test kit for gH and kH, Nitrite and nitrate (I really couldn't afford the full kit with ammonia as well as the phosphates etc. The reasoning being if there is nitrite there is ammonia and if the nitrite is under control the amonia should not be a problem. That said, I want to further understand the gH and kH so I can ensure my pH stays stable and learn how the chemistry changes as the tank habitat matures and the fish are slowly added.

The results we got when the shop tested my water sample were very encouraging and I was recommended to add some hardy fish to help the nitrovec do its work. ie 6.95pH and traces of ammonia and nitrite (basically from what I understand good signs of a tank beginning to cycle properly)

Neon Tetras are apparently not to be added for some weeks and so I simply got four very small glow light tetras and gently released them by bringing the water to even temp floating the bag for 1/2 hour then gradually adding a cup of tank water every 15 mins for a further hour. Then I gently netted them into the tank without introducing any of the bag water. I am happy with these tetras so I will not be needing to get rid of them - probably add four neons, three or four dwarf gouramis, some mollies and maybe an armoured catfish or two. I believe that if I am careful with the water and ensure I am ontop of my water changes (about 9l per week - 15%) I can accomodate up to about 16 dwarf and small fish in this tank. I will certainly be very careful not to overstock. The current four seem happy and are feeding (I am only feeding sparingly according to advice on the sera nitravec bottle) and schooling happily.


My knowledge having been improved I have a couple of questions that arise from all this:

1) The filter core, when it needs cleaning is only to be rinsed in the drained water from the tank on a weekly water change - but exactly how often? I suspect that it will eventually become clogged and will be watching for reduced flow but how should I do the rinsing in the old tank water? Should it be squeezed, agitated, wrung out, swoshed around or what? Also is it necessary to use some amount of biostarter after this rinse or will the bacteria recover very quickly and at the appropriate level for the fish in the aquarium?

2) How does this nitrivec work - how can it contain live organisms? It is a sealed bottle. Do they come out of suspended animation or is it simply a growth promoting agent for already developing organisms? I have read these bacteria are aerobic organisms so they cannot survive in a sealed bottle on the shelf can they?

Thanks everybody

Will

[kimmers318]

It is a good idea to rinse the filter media in water left from tank change, I usually just swoosh it around pretty vigourously to loosen and remove the gunk from it. I haven't found it necessary to add any type of biostarter after a water change/filter rinse, the tank water you remove won't kill the good bacteria on the filter like chlorinated tap water would. When the filter media becomes too ragged I replace it, but I do it in between water changes so that I am not removing bacteria with my cleaning and with my filter media. The type of filter makes a difference also, one of mine has 2 pads, with carbon pad in the middle, so I can change just 1 of the 3 pads at a time. Some of mine have an all-in-one carbon/filter media insert where it is all changed at once, but those have biowheels for the good bacteria to live on. Another has filter media around the carbon container, so each can be replaced as needed separately. What I found works for me with multiple tanks is a chart where I have room to note the date/water change/filter media replacement and water parameter readings on so that at anytime I can look at the chart for a specific tank and know the history of all of the above. When I had fewer tanks I just marked info on my desk calendar.
As for the nitrivec...not sure, but it may be similar to a product called Cycle I have seen/used/read about. Most people agree that live bacteria cannot live stored on a shelf in a sealed bottle. The recommendations I have heard were all for biospira, which needs to be kept refridgerated. I say I used cycle, because I did in my first large tank, only because I had been given some. As far as I know, I didn't have any issues with water parameters, but I added small fish slowly, used decor from an old tank, and had a large enough water volume that I probably just got lucky! When I tried cycle in the Q tank which had lost alot of its bacterial culture due to meds and I saw a spike, it didn't appear to do a darn thing. Since it didn't seem to be helping I added a filter bag full of gravel from another tank and the readings came down steadily over the course of a day or 2.
Good luck and happy fishkeeping!

[stardotstar]

Thanks again for the advice and sharing your experience - it is most heartening and your quarantine tank findings are fascinating.

My tetras and snails seem to be thriving - their activity is up and their colours are quite vivid and general demeanour seems alert and agile.

The results of my sera testing are in; I ran them twice today to ensure that I was doing it right:

1) gH is 8'gH
2) kH is 3'kH - changed colour very quickly on the third droplet - I am assuming that this is a little low and will look into raising it slightly - but then again I don't want to end up chasing impossible results as a beginner.
3) pH is 6.9-7.0 and remaining stable at the moment
4) Nitrite is either very low or nonexistent - I will assume that things are progressing well since there was ammonia and nitrite detected previously while the cycling was taking initial hold. So I doubt that it is a case of no bacteria populating the tank. Adding the snails and plants about 5 days ago and then fish yesterday and using the biostarter should have ensured that.

I am intending to change 9L of water per week, conditioning it and warming it suitably before adding it. I won't be touching the filter for about a month I am guessing. I might look into other filter media available for my eheim intank filter - changing in stages sounds like a really good idea!

Temperature is stable at between 25'C and 26'C and I have had to recalibrate the heater twice since it seems to be creeping up slightly but then again it could be the light usage.

I am about to add some sera fertilizer tablets to the substrate around the roots of the five plants. I suspect I will struggle to get these all to grow without C02 but only time will tell.

I will be adding two armoured catfish tomorrow night to help continue the cycle runup and for when I begin feeding slightly more. I figure the bottom feeders are a good place to start when increasing the fish load.

When I get these fish tomorrow I will also take a sample to the aquarium and get them to look at the ammonia and confirm my nitrite, kH, gH and pH readings.

As a result of my learning and applying my knowledge and products my gold fish tank has never looked so clear and the fish are absolutely loving it.

Thanks guys and a big congrats to William for such an excellent internet resource and selfelessly sharing his experience with his book

Will

[stardotstar]

Results in on the tests at the aquarium today:

No detectable nitrite or ammonia and pH good. He says 3' kH not too much to worry about - will prob fall a bit due to plants - deal with it once tank is fully cycled.

I have added 6 neons and 2 armoured cats - one copper and one albino. All looking good.

I will hold off now for a while and let the tank continue to settle feeding scarsely and keep testing.
Will

[William]

Good to hear